Keto Sub Groups
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I forgot one interesting topic for a blogger like yourself. Mark Sisson is all about controlling carbs to control weight and recommends a ceiling of about 150g of carbs per day. Most others put that number at 50 wanting you to go into ketosis. From what I have read, there may be a danger zone between 50 and 150. Within that range you doing have enough ketones or carbs for optimal brain function. It is kind of like a marathon runner that runs out of carbs but isn't fat adapted and hits the wall. I haven't found this to be true myself, but also don't think there's a definite line where you fall out of ketosis into some dark abyss of distinction. I tend to think Sisson is right and that you can make gradual changes in carb intake without the fear of damaging your body. I am fairly certain that I have had great weight loss results be restricting carbs without being in ketosis. I could be wrong and simply enter ketosis somewhere closer to 100g instead of 50.0
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I am just plain keto for sure. If it fits in my macros, I eat it. I just try to stay away from some of the more processed foods...sometimes. lol0
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Dragonwolf wrote: »5:
Primal allows dairy, among other things.BetterBalancedMe2015 wrote: »For the most part I think I am a paleo keto type creature-- or maybe primal keto is more accurate. I have been able to tolerate a bit of dairy here and there, with coconut and other healthy fats being my main fat source.
BB, What's the difference between Paleo & Primal?
Dan the Man from Michigan
Diary is the main thing, though on a "if you can tolerate it" basis. It's also more low-carb focused by default (as opposed to "standard Paleo," which isn't particularly concerned with macros.
This is accurate. I forego chemical sweeteners (aspartame, etc) in favor of grade b maple or honey, I can tolerate some dairy, like hard cheese and grassfed butter, but cannot have whole milk and heavy cream only on occasion. I still don't eat potatoes even though those are occasionally ok for a primal type person. I aim for minimally processed meats and buy grassfed and organic if I can at least 90% of the time.0 -
I forgot one interesting topic for a blogger like yourself. Mark Sisson is all about controlling carbs to control weight and recommends a ceiling of about 150g of carbs per day. Most others put that number at 50 wanting you to go into ketosis. From what I have read, there may be a danger zone between 50 and 150. Within that range you doing have enough ketones or carbs for optimal brain function. It is kind of like a marathon runner that runs out of carbs but isn't fat adapted and hits the wall. I haven't found this to be true myself, but also don't think there's a definite line where you fall out of ketosis into some dark abyss of distinction. I tend to think Sisson is right and that you can make gradual changes in carb intake without the fear of damaging your body. I am fairly certain that I have had great weight loss results be restricting carbs without being in ketosis. I could be wrong and simply enter ketosis somewhere closer to 100g instead of 50.
Quatroux. Excellent reply! Your post is what I have been thinking about since I posted this and am now on the LCD group (formerly I was only on the Keto group). I will add the "Lo Carb" classification, which will be from 50 to 150g carbs @ day. The distinction will be just as you said, below 50, you slip into the Ketogenic Diet.
I have been working on other stuff, so I will definitely add is asap.
Keep up the good work!
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Some athletes follow CKD (mentioned above) while others stay low carb all the time (Volek/Phinney). I think the trend for endurance athletes is to follow Volek/Phinney (authors of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance).
The CKD crowd appears to be focused more on bodybuilding. Most of them cycle between bulking and cutting and have found carb control as the best way to control weight.
I am a competitive rower (masters age group - not national team) which is a strength-endurance sport that traditionally favors carb loading due to the demand to sprint during a race. Popular thought is that keto isn't ideal for this. However, a rower could easily race four times in a day. Keto allows for quick recovery and less drop off of speed between events. The downside seems to be that you give up top end speed. I say "seems" because it appears that the longer you stay keto the less of a drop off you see. Also, your body has about 2k of energy for sprinting. The rub seems to be how long it takes a keto athlete to replenish this energy store. They need carbs or an abundance of protein (plus time) to recover.
I personally lost over 30 pounds on keto and being lighter was a huge help in the boat. However, I have no idea if I would have been faster had the ability to carb load before races.
CKD really doesn't make much sense to me. It sounds like what the Hodge Twins have been doing on YouTube. The debate between refeeding and cheat days/meals will make your head spin. I don't get cravings once I am keto and see no emotional benefit to eating carbs. Other than what I wrote above for sprint athletes, I also see no physical benefit to refeeding.
Also, I'll chime in a vote for the difference between paleo and primal. Primal is much closer to Atkins with simply a focus on eating less "processed" foods. Mark Sisson is probably the biggest Primal advocate, but I think Gary Taubes's books point people in that same direction. There seems to be a rainbow of choices with Atkins in one end and Paleo on the other - reaching the same goal with very different views on how you should source your proteins ands fats.
Thank you again for another excellent reply. The Phinney & Volek (normal) book is what converted me to Keto last summer. I did see many articles and references to the athletic side of Keto. You are the first person, I have met, that has confirmed this to me. Thank you. I am not an athlete, but I did forward some of this info to a friend of mine who is a serious bicycler (100 mile rides).
And I will certainly add the different between Paleo / Primal.
Thank you again,
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Sorry if this isn't the place for this. This was just the first post I saw for Keto on myfitnesspal and I'm exceptionally lazy. I'm just looking for a few support friends. I'm a morbidly obese late 20's female on the standard keto diet. I went in cold turkey, no transition with a 20 carb limit, no re-feeds allowed. I'm day 4 and just want a few people to connect with to keep my momentum up. Message me if your interested in a support friendship!0
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bgctrinity wrote: »Sorry if this isn't the place for this. This was just the first post I saw for Keto on myfitnesspal and I'm exceptionally lazy. I'm just looking for a few support friends. I'm a morbidly obese late 20's female on the standard keto diet. I went in cold turkey, no transition with a 20 carb limit, no re-feeds allowed. I'm day 4 and just want a few people to connect with to keep my momentum up. Message me if your interested in a support friendship!
Welcome!0 -
Welcome. This is the perfect place for this. We love and support all low-carbers.0
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I don't fit a group.
I sometimes keto but do have days with higher carbs. My highest day is generally still under 50g so still quite low carbs. I'm a border hopper. 
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Hi Trinity. There's a lot of very approachable, very helpful people here. Feel free to ask questions, share your opinions etc. This is one of the most non-judgmental groups I've encountered.0
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Thank you again for another excellent reply. The Phinney & Volek (normal) book is what converted me to Keto last summer. I did see many articles and references to the athletic side of Keto. You are the first person, I have met, that has confirmed this to me. Thank you. I am not an athlete, but I did forward some of this info to a friend of mine who is a serious bicycler (100 mile rides).
And I will certainly add the different between Paleo / Primal.
Thank you again,
Dan the Man from Michigan
I am very glad you got some value out of my posts despite the autocorrect errors. I am trying life without a PC and I just don't fully appreciate the spell check on Android.
I'm trying this racing season in keto so we will see how my little n=1 experiment goes for the sport of rowing.
I got hip to this WOE thanks to The Virgin Diet. It is a diet fashioned after how an allergist tests for food sensitivities. The authors simply chose the 7 foods she thinks people have problems with and they just happen to be laden with carbs. I discovered I was lactose sensitive at the age of 37! Anyway, I found Primal (and eventually keto) as natural next steps after reading Mark Sisson, Gary Taubes, and Phinney/Volek. Gotta love any book with a good appendix.
I enjoy reading these forums. Hope to have a few contributions as the year progresses.
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bgctrinity wrote: »Sorry if this isn't the place for this. This was just the first post I saw for Keto on myfitnesspal and I'm exceptionally lazy. I'm just looking for a few support friends. I'm a morbidly obese late 20's female on the standard keto diet. I went in cold turkey, no transition with a 20 carb limit, no re-feeds allowed. I'm day 4 and just want a few people to connect with to keep my momentum up. Message me if your interested in a support friendship!
Welcome to the herd! This WOE has been the best thing I have ever done. Even as I sit here watching hubby eat a huge bowl of ice cream I have no cravings whatsoever. There is a ton of very keto savvy folks here so you've come to the right place.0 -
Dan I've seen Dr. Attia and some others refer to <50g carbs as "Nutritional Ketosis".0
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Dan I've seen Dr. Attia and some others refer to <50g carbs as "Nutritional Ketosis".
I agree with that. Water fasting, after 8 hours, usually will land you into ketosis. But if you eat less than 50 carbs, the body burns the carbs off first and you're in "nutritional fast" which = ketosis.
I eased into ketosis by starting at 100 g @day, then as I learned how it worked, I shot for 20 and water fasting. I never got the Keto flu, probably because I slowly worked my way into it and that I love salt and ate a lot of in anyway.
Now my carbs are 20 - 40 @ day. I call 40 a bad day and less than 20 a good day (not too often).
To be sure, ketosis is easy, getting Keto adapted is the ultimate goal and is harder because it takes 2-6 weeks of consistently lower than 50 g @ day. A person can't "cheat"....the body can't be fooled. Its not a "casual" diet, meaning you can't break the rules and say, "Oh, it'll be OK".
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet
LCHF is the XXXX (A funny animated explantion of the Keto WOE)
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I NEED to be a Paleo Keto (around 50g), but in reality I am more a Primal Low carb. (DEFINITELY under 150g). A work in progress! I DON'T tolerate dairy well but it is like my crack, so I often eat it anyway and pay for it. I also fall off into things like fries and chips, and Paleo pizza on occasion. I think for me I am doing well at around 50-75g NET carbs, as it is all fruits an vegetables generally as Paleo/Pimal are grain free. I don't even do "low carb" products because of the ingredients and my reaction to them. I don't do artificial sweeteners. Stevia is a natural one from a leaf so I do have that on rare occasion.
The other distinction with Primal (Mark Sisson) is that his carbohydrates that he recommends are on a curve, and in follow up writings he teaches that only the MOST active should be at higher levels. marksdailyapple.com/press/the-primal-blueprint-diagrams/#axzz3VSiuGn4c
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Do not fear eating fat. That was a huge hurdle for someone like me who was trained by no fat diets.
Secondly, you need to want to do this. Commitment is essential. Being overweight brings a lot of other emotional baggage along with it. You need to unload that baggage on your journey or else, it won't work.
If you watch my 600lb life, you well see enablers, and emotionally unhealthy individuals who think an outside fix will change their lives.
Nope. Guess again.
The return rate of obesity after surgery is about 90%. Why? Because they are still carrying their that baggage and continue to surround themselves with toxic people carrying THEIR own baggage at the patient's expense.
Get professional help if you need it. Stay very honest with yourself.
Change is hard.
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I was thinking, maybe "Nutritional Ketosis" could be a name of one of your sub groups. Sounds facier than just plain ol' keto
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I'm pretty much keto with paleo / primal sympathies. Even before going keto, I was on a restricted diet that didn't really have much in the way of processed foods. I eat fairly clean and tend to stay away from processed foods.
My fiance is a carnivore keto bodybuilder, no question. He doesn't cycle, and pretty much eats nothing but EGGS EGGS EGGS MOAR EGGS, bacon, cheese, and beef. When I go out with him, I force him to have some broccoli to help clean things out. heh
-T.
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I don't fit a group. I sometimes keto but do have days with higher carbs. My highest day is generally still under 50g so still quite low carbs. I'm a border hopper.
If your highest day is still under 50 g that is considered keto (nutritional ketosis) per Phinney and Volek. Whether you personally remain in ketosis at 50 g carbs/day you would need to check.0
