Maybe We Should Have A Meat-Only May Challenge?
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Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
WELL, in THAT case...I'm in. ;-)0 -
I'm watching and lurking. I'm still on the fence with all the work that went into planting our garden...lol. Shoulda grown pigs and a cows instead.
LOL we do a big garden every year too. Nothing beats the bliss from walking in, dusting off a green bean or cucumber and eating right there. But we also got our 4 piggies we raise for butcher yesterday.0 -
AnarchoGen wrote: »I was thinking about joining but since my body doesn't agree with dairy, there's absolutely no way I could do this without plant oils. I'll keep doing my own thing.
I almost never have dairy. That butter was a rare exception. You don't need any added fats to your meats. You would be just fine with plain meat (assuming you went for the fatty cuts). No need for cheese, cream, or butter.
If you want more fat, bacon and the drippings are awesome.0 -
AnarchoGen wrote: »I was thinking about joining but since my body doesn't agree with dairy, there's absolutely no way I could do this without plant oils. I'll keep doing my own thing.
I almost never have dairy. That butter was a rare exception. You don't need any added fats to your meats. You would be just fine with plain meat (assuming you went for the fatty cuts). No need for cheese, cream, or butter.
If you want more fat, bacon and the drippings are awesome.
Good, more butter for me!
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I almost never have dairy. That butter was a rare exception. You don't need any added fats to your meats. You would be just fine with plain meat (assuming you went for the fatty cuts). No need for cheese, cream, or butter.
If you want more fat, bacon and the drippings are awesome.
I can give it a try. I have to have uncured bacon. My body hates me
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AnarchoGen wrote: »I was thinking about joining but since my body doesn't agree with dairy, there's absolutely no way I could do this without plant oils. I'll keep doing my own thing.
As an aside, have you ever tried clarified butter or ghee? It's butter that's had the proteins separated & strained out. The proteins are, in general, more allergenic than the fat, and so some people who have trouble with other dairy can handle clarified butter ok.
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Very intriguing. But I wonder why @FIT_Goat you say that a multivitamin is not necessary. How are we getting all of our necessary nutrients?
Also, I assume "meat" is all animal protein, poultry, beef, pork, etc.?
This may be a good option for my husband who will be starting low carb (again) next week. He does not particularly like vegetables.
Thank you!
Goat's Definition of Meat: Did it have a face or a mother? Is it shellfish? Those are fine too (no face, but a momma clam somewhere). Eggs are meat, bone marrow is meat, organs are meat--all of these are purely optional.
The nutrients question is interesting, because if you follow the RDAs, you'll be short on some things. You'll be getting 0% of your RDA for vitamin C, for example. You won't get scurvy though. The RDA was based on the amount needed to avoid deficiency diseases like scurvy. Well, if you won't get scurvy, then you're obviously getting the necessary amount. Even if that amount is less than the official RDA. Most of those were set assuming a mixed diet with plenty of carbs. Carb consumption changed many of the requirements.
We don't have official RDAs for various nutrients when eating just meat. So, we have to look at the outcomes. Whole populations have lived on just meat without deficiency. Owsley "Bear" Stanley lived 54 years eating just meat without deficiency (he died in a car accident at 76). Stefansson and Andersen lived under medical supervision for a year eating just meat (no eggs or dairy) and they suffered no ill effects or deficiency. There are people living today who have eaten nothing but ribeye for around 18 years (a whole family) without any deficiency issues. There are many others who have lived nearly a decade, again without any deficiencies cropping up.
In end end, we have to look at the outcome. Eating just meat doesn't seem to cause any nutritional deficiencies. In fact, most people end up very healthy and their health conditions usually improve. It's almost as if any existing deficiencies correct themselves. By the definition of "necessary," we can be sure that eating just meat (even just muscle meat) will provide all the necessary nutrients. If it did not, we would see massive problems with deficiency diseases among those who eat as I do.
You'll be fine without a multi-vitamin. But, I realize that this is heresy and lunatic fringe level stuff. I won't be the slightest bit insulted if you continue (or start) taking a multivitamin, just in case. I've not taken one (or any vitamin or supplement) in 9 months without issue, but you're responsible for your own well being. You do what you need to do to feel comfortable.
* Also, vitamin C needs are higher for smokers. If you smoke, you may want to supplement. Or, you know, stop smoking.
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I'm going to do all oryx and elk for May.0
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I was wondering if maybe some of the people who have been doing this for awhile could post something about cuts of meat that they like and that are good and fatty for The Meaty Month of May. You know, for us newbies who are used to filet? thanks!0
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I was wondering if maybe some of the people who have been doing this for awhile could post something about cuts of meat that they like and that are good and fatty for The Meaty Month of May. You know, for us newbies who are used to filet? thanks!
I just walk over to the butcher counter and look to where they keep the cheap cuts. The more white in amongst the red, the more I buy!
I love a nice lamb steak, or some pork ribs, or any steak that looks nice and thick and fatty. Then I look up the best way to cook it if I'm not familiar with it. I even tried liver! (can't say I recommend it)0 -
My meat departments are not full butchers, and finding the cheaper cuts can be very difficult. I'm hoping that once the farmer's market opens back up to befriend a farmer! 0
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As an aside, have you ever tried clarified butter or ghee? It's butter that's had the proteins separated & strained out. The proteins are, in general, more allergenic than the fat, and so some people who have trouble with other dairy can handle clarified butter ok.
Yes I've tried it, and it is disgusting! lol I think I will jump on the May challenge and eat fatty meats and bone broth to keep my fats high. I did some thinking and some reading and I think it's something I would really benefit from.
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Another question about vitamins... Is it possible that women need more vitamins than men? I know we do when growing a baby, but maybe it holds true in general as well? Any thoughts on that one? I'd definitely be taking a prenatal vitamin if I joined in(paranoid and proactive me likes to prepare for the pregnancy that's two+ years down the road..), but am seriously considering it.0
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I don't think a woman can begin taking prenatal vitamins too soon. I would probably recommend them for childbirth age women to take it everyday. Though I'm just a nurse, not a doctor.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »My meat departments are not full butchers, and finding the cheaper cuts can be very difficult. I'm hoping that once the farmer's market opens back up to befriend a farmer!
Generally I'm talking about Stop & Shop, and their "butchers" don't actually serve customers (and if you ask for a special cut they just tell you whether or not they have more packaged in their racks in the fridge). I do have a great butcher in town but he's VERY expensive, so I'd only go there if I'm looking for something specific.0 -
sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »Another question about vitamins... Is it possible that women need more vitamins than men? I know we do when growing a baby, but maybe it holds true in general as well? Any thoughts on that one? I'd definitely be taking a prenatal vitamin if I joined in(paranoid and proactive me likes to prepare for the pregnancy that's two+ years down the road..), but am seriously considering it.
You'd be interested in this -- http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/2015/02/eat-zero-carb-pregnant/
Also, this article seems to shoot down the idea that women need more vitamins than men -- http://www.intelihealth.com/article/his-and-her-vitamins-smart-medicine-or-marketing-ploy?hd=Medical
And my first thought is why would we, generally speaking?
Worried about folate and choline? Eat lamb or game, beef, pork, or shellfish for folate, and eggs, shrimp, and/or scallops (or just about any other meat) for choline. Iron? Eat red meat.
By all means, take it if you feel better doing so, but be aware that unless you have a deficiency, you're likely wasting your money. If you're concerned with deficiency, talk to your doctor and get tested.0 -
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Vitamins are really interesting. Remember the studies that said "E is good!" followed by "whoops, maybe not so much!" Same with C and other vitamins. As usual, both camps are right.
The "problem" is homeostasis. We need trace amounts, and bad things happen if we don't get those trace amounts. If we get too much, our body down-regulates the receptors for that vitamin. So too much of a good thing can shut down the beneficial processes by making us less sensitive to the good stuff.
It's hard to trick your body into doing the right thing with supplements. Eat real foods. Trust evolution. 0 -
I'll list cuts of meat I like when I get a moment tonight. I might also post a link or two for a couple books and good reads for people considering this, as almost everything has been studied. Every time I think I have found a new question, I realize that Stefansson addressed it back in his book in the 1920s or '30s. And, he's just the one we can be sure isn't making things up because he lived under medical supervision for a year on just meat. There are other books and reports that also cover people doing it for long periods of time, on top of that.0
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With regard to vitamins, bariatric patients are told to take certain vitamins, for life since we aren't able to absorb all of the nutrients from the food we eat. They also stress high protein diet-for us to try to eat our protein first so we don't run out of room in our smaller stomachs. I find LCHF to be perfect for me since I'm not forced to eat any carbs that take up space at all. So, I will continue to take a multivitamin, and calcium, and my B12 injections to help prevent Pernicious Anemia.
@FIT_Goat , I look forward to your post!0 -
Everyone serious about this challenge should start with the following book: http://highsteaks.com/the-fat-of-the-land-not-by-bread-alone-vilhjalmur-stefansson.pdf
If you read nothing else, read Chapter 4 (page 60-89): The year long study and the results. You'll find that almost everything most people wonder or worry about was addressed back then.
Chapter 3 (page 40-59) is also good. It's Stefansson's experience in the arctic.
Actually, the whole book is excellent. I recommend that everyone read at least through page 177. After that, it gets into a lot of detail about pemmican. It's extremely interesting, but not exactly necessary unless you're looking to include that as well.0 -
That is so funny. I am right in the middle of that book. He is an amazing writer, he makes the subject really enjoyable. I liked it when he called Bernard Shaw a "high income vegetarian" as, like, a slam.
Thanks for responses from everyone. And if you get a chance I would really appreciate a list of meats as we are going shopping soon!0 -
I'm waiting for that list of meats too!0
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Is B12 a vitamin you can get enough of from meat/eggs? I ask because I am actually borderline deficient in that one (at one point was very deficient- my level was 25 when the normal "low" is 250... I took a bunch of shots that time and got it back up to 550, but over the past 4 years it has gradually dropped back to around 250).0
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One consideration for women of childbearing age regarding vitamins is that all women capable of becoming pregnant should be getting 400mcg of folic acid for the prevention of neural tube defects (spina bifida, anencephaly, etc.). I'm not convinced that you'll get enough folate in meat that it will be the equivalent of 400mcg folic acid. Just a thought.0
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I tried to make a list of meats, but it was just too long. I love them all. I normally stick to some variation of chuck because it's fatty and cheap. Ribeye is great. Lamb rocks. Most fatty pork is great. Chicken is "ok" as long as there's skin and fat. Fish are good too. Seafood, yep, I love it.
Anyway. I can't make a good short list. If it looks good, try it.0 -
One consideration for women of childbearing age regarding vitamins is that all women capable of becoming pregnant should be getting 400mcg of folic acid for the prevention of neural tube defects (spina bifida, anencephaly, etc.). I'm not convinced that you'll get enough folate in meat that it will be the equivalent of 400mcg folic acid. Just a thought.
You need that much folic acid, because it's poorly absorbed and requires conversion. You can get about that much in folate, with has far more bioavailability, from 100g of lamb.Is B12 a vitamin you can get enough of from meat/eggs? I ask because I am actually borderline deficient in that one (at one point was very deficient- my level was 25 when the normal "low" is 250... I took a bunch of shots that time and got it back up to 550, but over the past 4 years it has gradually dropped back to around 250).
Yes, in fact meat is the only reliable source of B12. Getting rid of grains and legumes, especially (and the other plants to various extents) will help you absorb the B12, as you're exposed to fewer phytates, which bind to several nutrients and decrease absorption.
You might want to include some liver, which is packed with vitamins of all sorts.0 -
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I take the B12 because I have had Gastric Bypass. Anytime you have surgery that reduces the size of your stomach, it reduces your ability to absorb nutrients from food. Also the bypass shortens the length of them small intestine where nutrients are also absorbed. So, I take these vitamins for life. It will be interesting to send my labs next month.
Thank you Fit_Goat! I feel I'm getting in the swing of this pretty good.
I believe I will be up for the challenge by the first!0 -
So would it be better to gradually move in the zero-carb direction (from keto) between now and May 1, or just jump right in when the challenge starts?0
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