Winter Training Challenges - Signup/Discussion Thread
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So with just a couple of weeks left for the challenge I think it's worth thinking and getting opinion about how it's gone,if this is worth running again next Winter season and what if anything should change.
Stuff I've liked:
1. The Cat leagues,
I really think this was the best part of this challenge, for me competing with Dave, Josh and Jill for Cat 1 titles has pushed me more then I would have ridden normally this Winter and that can only help me for the coming season.
Watching people compete for promotion/relegation and look to get motivation from it has been very rewarding and great to see.
2. Distance Bonus Points
I think the carrot of these is a great motivator, certainly motivated me to hit more metric centuries in a day then I would have normally.
Stuff I've not liked:
1. Having to chuck people off for not logging, bad entries or even a case of a bad attitude.
2. Picture bonus points, surprisingly found this more frustrating then rewarding with some of the entries being really bad that I finished up canning the whole idea in the new year.
Should we run this again and if so what to change:
For the most part I've really enjoyed running this and yes I'd run it again if 20 or more people wanted to take an active part in it, I'll run a thread late next September to see if people fancy it again.
What I'd like to change
As a developer/programmer I'd really like to automate the whole logging and submission system which would eradicate any bad logging entries and issues that created, the idea I have is you could simply enter the Strava URL activity into a newly developed web submission form and confirm your entry, everything would then be automatic and you could instantly see your data updated rather then having to wait for an admin to add your entry. This would be a nice little web-project I'd consider doing if enough people wanted to see it, could also act as a framework for other challenges/league systems should Mark want to do something similar or collaborate on something like this, I'm a software Technical Architect by day and can actually see quite a lot of scope for developing all sorts of ideas along this theme but it's just me and my daft ideas so far
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I think I'd also get rid of the daily bonus system in favour of a three day 'submit or it doesn't count' system, ideally the Winter Challenge system would directly link with Strava and grab rides automatically but I'm unsure if a) Strava would allow this and b) if people would be less into the challenge without the physical submit an entry.
For anyone I have ejected from the challenge please understand that this took a lot of effort to keep running over four months, it was purely in the interest of keeping everything updated and hope no one took this personally, the ideas set out above would be more self policing, for example failure to log any rides over a couple of weeks would not mean ejection from the challenge but would simply mean any rides not submitted within the last three days would not count.
So do we want to do this again?
So please let me know if for one you thought this was worth the effort and for another you would like to see this run again, if I have enough yays and support then I'll consider creating a better framework for the next Winter season.0 -
Yeah, this should definitely be a permanent fixture in our annual cycling program; the Classic challenge & Grand Tour challenges are now 'part of the furniture' here on MFP for us cyclists. There's no reason why the Winter challenge can't be included in this too... It has certainly made me put a bit more of an effort in this winter time. Yes I've still had a few CBA days, but don't we all?!
So I vote 'Yes!' It's definitely a keeper!0 -
I would just like to say that IMO you've done a brilliant job of reviving the whole Winter Challenge Jason, and should be loudly applauded for your efforts. I agree 100% that photo-bonuses are (or can be) a PITA to administer - they work within something like the Classics Challenge - where the pictures have to be loaded into a ride report in the submissions thread - for a one-off ride, once a week or so. They also work as a seperate "side competition" like the "Graham Watson" threads in the Grand Tours... But, alongside the winter challenge, when people are outdoors, riding in *kitten* weather, generally doing the same old, same old commute, day-in-day-out, the last thing anyone really wants is to stop and take a bloody photo, with their cameraphone, which is likely to get wet and damaged in the process...
So - yep, photo-bonuses aren't really a flyer on the winter challenge... Only one I could think of that WOULD have worked was the "Best Cafe-Stop" photo thread... which I was going to suggest for jan/feb, before you decided to drop the photo-bonuses.
I'm intrigued with the idea of the logging app - potentially it could be a great way of off-loading the hassle of data entry - pull everything from Strava using their API to pull in the data you need, bung it into a SQL database, then a quick front-end app to display the runners-and-riders as it rolls... I must admit, I did consider this as an option a couple of years back (around the time that MFP made a bollocks of the forums) with the Grand Tours - but kind of dismissed it because at the time it was hard enough to actually get people to log onto MFP, let alone get them to also go to another website to enter their Strava ride URL's... That and the somewhat "fluid" (think "nailing jelly to a tree") nature of the Strava API at that time kind of killed it off for me. Haven't looked recently, but as they're still on API 3, maybe it's stabilised a bit now...
I did think of using Google Forms as a "front end" to grab the data and push it into the Google Spreadsheet - but again it all went a little clunky when I tried it... perhaps simply because I didn't actually devote enough time and attention into developing it - when it comes to actually "working" with computers, basically I hate "code grinding" and associated stuff unless I'm getting paid for it (I actually Hate it then as well, but at least I can sit and think "that's another £100 in the bank every hour or so... pity I don't get enough of those hours these days, and I'm likely to be looking for a "day-job" in the near future to keep the wolf from the door
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Good to hear you'd be interested in this Mark, I'm certainly open to it being a collaborative project even if it's just on the ideas front and not code grinding, it's something I may dabble in anyway but would be even better if people took an interest in having something like whats mentioned above, coding wise it would likely be a Javascript/Java/mysql with perhaps using something like dojo, as core Javascript is a bit messy dojo adds some nice class like structure to it although I've only just touched on it. I've played with the Strava API too but that's more about accessing your own data and producing reports etc, for one you have to allow access via an access token, not sure about accessing other peoples data but imagine having an activity URL data can be parsed and then confirmed by an entry submission, the other option would be to upload your ride tcx file, either method could be used but the Strava fetch would be ideal really.
Anyway lets see if others are interested in having a more automatic online logging system for a Winter Challenge next season, it's possible everyones had enough of my mutterings for the last 4 months.
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Been an amazing winter challenge and thanks for running it, Jason. Typically by this point of winter I have gained 30 lbs and am hating life with plenty of self loathing. Granted this is the first full off season I've had with a road bike and trainer, this challenge has helped me greatly. I'd be lying if I said the challenge, or rather my competitive nature, hasn't taken it's toll on me mentally as giving up huge chunks of my 2 day weekend to the trainer for the past 3+ months has been pretty tough. Especially while being the single parent of a 10 year old girl lol. With that said, I very much look forward to the spring time and group riding with those that took the winter off. In the likeness of Pantani, watching friends struggle to hang on while I set the pace will be highly enjoyable.
I didn't enjoy the picture bonuses much because I hate stopping mid-ride to whip out my phone to collect said points. And then there was the problem with photos showing on the Strava map. (something that seems to be a problem on my new phone, even though the photos are GPS tagged) The Cat & Strava leagues are great. Distance points as well. Even more so this month since smaller increments have become point-worthy.0 -
First, massive thanks and props to Jason for running this. I know it's probably been a lot like herding cats but you're done an awesome job! Chapeau! I would love to do it again next year. It's nice to be able to see how I stack against the rest just doing what I've been doing, but it's also pushed me (like all the challenges do) to ride more - even though it may not seem like it. If you can get a more automated thing working - even if I have to go somewhere else to drop a URL into, that would be very cool. So you have my vote to go again!0
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As others have said, Thank you Jason! I have greatly enjoyed the winter training challenge and found it VERY motivating.
Liked best: Cat leagues with Pro/Reg! I also like the distance bonus points though Feb seems extra generous and almost like I am cheating. Perhaps if (as you mentioned) the .25 daily sign in bonus is dropped it would level out a bit more. I am sure an automated website would make things easier for you but if you have a hard time syncing it with Strava than a page where riders copy their ride URL should work fine. If you were to get data harvesting from Strava to work some riders might lose out on the daily MFP community interaction. Oh, and I also like the 1pt strava bonuses.
Liked lest: The challenge ends a month too soon! Where I live I still have all/most of March on a trainer.
+1 vote for next year!0 -
Thanks all for the feedback, much appreciated, I'll have a good look on developing some kind of framework that we can all use to make things easier all round, I think we would have a good core field of riders at the very least and possibly even attract new riders, as far as interaction goes I think I know a good way to strike a balance with these steps:
Login to the newly created challenge website,
Either request to fetch, upload or be presented with your ride data since last login,
Deselect any dodgy entries,
Press a confirm button to accept and submit the rides into the challenge.
Browse the various tables, stats etc
* of course we could offer some kind of bonus incentive for every day a rider does the above.
I like the idea of having a confirmed and live view on the challenge tables.
Things like distance bonus points and other stat based bonus points would be automatic, easy ride submission, no waiting for admins and easier for admins to manage, I'm not sure I want to sit entering 4 months worth of data again, it's a much more attractive prospect creating something fun to use.
Worse case scenario is I build it, nones interested next Winter but I get a chance to flex some development muscles that have been neglected for a few years ..... frankly I'm bored of writing Chemistry based services!
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I enjoyed the challenge, even though I didn't finish well. My work schedule played havoc with me this year. But, I enjoyed it. I'm a web developer but have no intelligent coding suggestions, and wouldn't have any time to contribute anyway. However, I would be willing to fund a Fiverr developer if you software architects would want to manage him / her and the project.0
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I've thoroughly enjoyed the challenge even though my longer-than-planned break through December and into January took it's toll on my standings. I've definitely found it motivating and I've ridden more and longer at times than I would have without it. If it runs again next year I'll be signing up for sure.
I'm a programmer of sorts too and I'm a big fan of automation. I was thinking earlier on about the whole web submission idea. I think it's great. Let me know you want or need help. My web programming skills are a bit rusty but I'd be happy to help out.0 -
This has been a lot of fun - although I ride only on certain days around some other activities, it does help me keep me focused on the rides and I enjoy the achievements of all the other participants! I have not run one of these but have done similar activities for other cycling groups, and I know how much work it takes - and you have made it seem "easy" to the rest of us....but we know this is a substantial effort on your part and we thank you for it! Chapeau!0
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Thanks for the offers of help, I think this will definitely be a little pet project and should be able to handle it development wise, my kind of idea of fun .... such a geek, I think people trying the framework out will be more then helpful, I'll be harvesting this years data for testing the system so this years efforts can be kept as reference.0
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When ready, I'll volunteer as a tester. It will be just like work, but without the paycheck!
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I vote a Yes to doing doing this challenge again.
Its fun.
Except for trying to keep up with you 3 at the top...Just about Kills me.
I guess thats the point, motivation to do just a little more then you typically would
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Yes I really enjoyed it too - until illness, weather and work got in the way the last few weeks...I think the automated API is a great idea, Jase, and I don't mind how you choose to run it or what bonuses you do, as you know I just join in for the fun of it :-)0
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Didn't know you were a programmer Jase! (C++ here currently in a C# role with WCF and SQL Server thrown in)
Thanks for running the challenge it was fun chasing you down then watching you catch up then chasing you down again
Would be interested next year of course! 0 -
Thanks Jason for running this and doing all the work.. I would do this again if offered. Because I race I stay with my training plan during the winter BUT I found that this challenge made me DO EVERYTHING i needed to and not skip some days etc.. Great stuff Jason. Plus it is always nice to meet people from other parts of the world. Thanks Again..0
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Great reaction, looks like we have a good core for starters next time this is run. If it's automated it gives scope for a much bigger set of riders, we would just need willing guinea pig so it would be cool to invite your friends along for the challenge too, very much the more the merrier especially with a good multi tier league system to compete over.
Dave I've also played with C++ & C#, SQL Server .... in fact over the past 25 years there's not much I haven't played with language wise, always something new though which is kind of why I wanna play with Dojo and do a little front end web developement.
So in short tell your friends and maybe we can make this even better next season.0 -
Kudos to Jason for a well run challenge and all of the time and effort. I can't tell you how many people I've told about the Winter Cycle Challenge. I think everyone at the club and work knows about this. There are probably some folks that now think I'm a bit crazy for riding 80 miles on a spin bike, but that's okay. Because now I know what that feels like, and riding 80 miles (or maybe even 100) outside this spring is in my future because of this challenge.
I would definitely be up for this again next winter. The photo thing didn't work for me because as soon as the snow flies there are no outdoor rides for me. Even if it melts, there's too much sand/salt leftover on the shoulders and in intersections. Skinny tires are no match.0
