Form critique thread, post your videos here.
Replies
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peppermintmama wrote: »Possible that the back pain is caused from you going into lumbar flexion at the bottom of that deadlift. I wouldn't go down nearly as far as you are. Watch the video and you'll see that near the bottom of the deadlift your lower back is rounding.
I would do two things on that deadlift: Keep the DB's much closer to your shins, and stop at about mid-shin rather than going all the way to the floor.
Is there anyway to fix that Other then stopping at my shins? Do I need more flexibility? Does my core need to be tighter? Am I just at the end of my spinal flexibility at that angle? I want to make sure I'm getting every benefit I possibly can from every workout I do.
Anytime you assess a movement you MUST balance out safety with benefit. Is the risk worth the reward, in other words.
You're basically doing a DB RDL and it's a very good idea with that particular movement to stop the eccentric at the point just before the lumbar rounds.
Similarly if someone has lumbar rounding from squatting too deep it's a good idea to cut depth if it results in a safer squat.
I don't think this is a mobility issue, you're just going to deep and the DB's are too far from your center of mass.1 -
peppermintmama wrote: »Is there anyway to fix that Other then stopping at my shins?
Probably not significantly. Most people do that when they go that deep on straight-leg deadlifts. I would switch to Romanian Deadlifts, where the knees unlock - it's easier on the back. Here's a tutorial:
part 1 https://youtube.com/watch?v=-6Jq_sWcGTI
part 2 https://youtube.com/watch?v=DFTeSVuq4oY
Whichever DL you do, try his broomstick technique in a mirror, to check for spinal alignment.peppermintmama wrote: »I want to make sure I'm getting every benefit I possibly can from every workout I do.
For maximum benefit, don't combine multiple exercises into 1 set. It makes it harder to focus on proper form, plus different weights are usually needed on the exercises.
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Anytime you assess a movement you MUST balance out safety with benefit. Is the risk worth the reward, in other words.
You're basically doing a DB RDL and it's a very good idea with that particular movement to stop the eccentric at the point just before the lumbar rounds.
Similarly if someone has lumbar rounding from squatting too deep it's a good idea to cut depth if it results in a safer squat.
I don't think this is a mobility issue, you're just going to deep and the DB's are too far from your center of mass.
Awesome thankfully so much! I have upper body to do today so I'm excited to get through it without any back pain
.Cherimoose wrote: »peppermintmama wrote: »Is there anyway to fix that Other then stopping at my shins?
Probably not significantly. Most people do that when they go that deep on straight-leg deadlifts. I would switch to Romanian Deadlifts, where the knees unlock - it's easier on the back. Here's a tutorial:
part 1 https://youtube.com/watch?v=-6Jq_sWcGTI
part 2 https://youtube.com/watch?v=DFTeSVuq4oY
Whichever DL you do, try his broomstick technique in a mirror, to check for spinal alignment.peppermintmama wrote: »I want to make sure I'm getting every benefit I possibly can from every workout I do.
For maximum benefit, don't combine multiple exercises into 1 set. It makes it harder to focus on proper form, plus different weights are usually needed on the exercises.
Thank you so much for the videos! I'm excited to learn more about Romanian deadlifts especially if it eases the strain on my back and gives me the same awesome benefits. As far as combining multiple exercises that is why I program I'm using teaches is that wrong? Or do I need to perfect my form first before doing that part of the program?
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peppermintmama wrote: »Possible that the back pain is caused from you going into lumbar flexion at the bottom of that deadlift. I wouldn't go down nearly as far as you are. Watch the video and you'll see that near the bottom of the deadlift your lower back is rounding.
I would do two things on that deadlift: Keep the DB's much closer to your shins, and stop at about mid-shin rather than going all the way to the floor.
Is there anyway to fix that Other then stopping at my shins? Do I need more flexibility? Does my core need to be tighter? Am I just at the end of my spinal flexibility at that angle? I want to make sure I'm getting every benefit I possibly can from every workout I do.
Anytime you assess a movement you MUST balance out safety with benefit. Is the risk worth the reward, in other words.
You're basically doing a DB RDL and it's a very good idea with that particular movement to stop the eccentric at the point just before the lumbar rounds.
Similarly if someone has lumbar rounding from squatting too deep it's a good idea to cut depth if it results in a safer squat.
I don't think this is a mobility issue, you're just going to deep and the DB's are too far from your center of mass.
Great advice. You're just going too far down which is gonna really strain your lower back.
Two things that might help aid you in limiting ROM to avoid injury:
1) Stop when you feel a stretch in your hamstrings (the backs of your legs). If you keep going down after your hamstrings have run out of stretchability (is that a word?) your back will have to round over to continue - hence lower back pain.
2) Use video to see exactly when your back starts to round and stop before that happens. Use future videos to verify. Practice will ingrain your stopping point into your brain eventually.1 -
peppermintmama wrote: »As far as combining multiple exercises that is why I program I'm using teaches is that wrong? Or do I need to perfect my form first before doing that part of the program?
I think videos like that combine exercises to reduce boredom and to make their program seem different than all the other programs out there. But it's not ideal for those whose form isn't perfect (= most people). Even if your form is good, most people can deadlift more than they can front-squat, so you'd be underperforming on the deadlift if you use the same weight. 1 -
Was feeling better about my squat. Then I witnessed my toddler...
*sigh* I envy everything about it8 -
Sorry to post again. 1.5 weeks ago, I think I jerked the bar doing a deadlift and tweaked a muscle in my lower back. So I stopped the workout, took a few days off, and haven't deadlifted since. Got back to it today. Ignore the silly outfit, the bright colors are always on clearance and my kids think it's funny. I'm lifting 94 lbs here, which is pretty light for me (I've done 124x4 before), but I really wanted to work on the form and make sure it was solid so I don't hurt myself more.
I think I've gotten rid of the shoulder shrug. Concentrating on tightening everything before pulling. Any feedback very welcome!
https://youtu.be/HV-idEl7Lf4 0 -
@AigreDoux
A couple things -
- Your hips rise when you initiate the lift. Don't do this. It puts a lot more strain on the back.
- Some shoulder rounding/slouching is acceptable - yours is not.Retract your shoulder blades before you lift.. try to keep them retracted on the way up.. and then give them another squeeze at the top.
- Keep a neutral neck - don't bend your head up. If there's a mirror in front of you, don't look at it. 1 -
@Cherimoose
Thanks!!! I think I was trying to achieve "thoracic extension" but extended my neck instead. Video looks very helpful. I was previously shrugging my shoulders at the top of the lift, so was trying not to do that, but I guess need to move them back. Have watched so many Youtube videos I've confused myself. Will try again next week and see if I can do better 0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »@AigreDoux
A couple things -
- Your hips rise when you initiate the lift. Don't do this. It puts a lot more strain on the back.
- Some shoulder rounding/slouching is acceptable - yours is not.Retract your shoulder blades before you lift.. try to keep them retracted on the way up.. and then give them another squeeze at the top.
- Keep a neutral neck - don't bend your head up. If there's a mirror in front of you, don't look at it.
I actually wouldn't retract the shoulderblades in a deadlift. You should really aim for scapular depression rather than retraction since the muscles that are responsible for scapular retraction aren't likely able to maintain retraction under heavy loads anyway.0 -
I made a thread over in F&E about my seemingly early plateau. It was suggested I post some videos. Here's my squat. My current weight is 140, but this is just 95 for the sake of visibility. I'll upload the DL in a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcWmK-0hlw 0 -
@zamphir66
I see two things that jump out at me.
First: are those regular sneekers, with a fairly squishy (or at least, not firm) sole/heel? If so, get out of those and either go barefoot (as it looks like you're in your own basement) or into some appropriate shoes: Appropriate shoes are something like Converse Chucks or an actual lifting shoe.
Second: You're looking down while squatting. Don't do that - either look straight forward, or up slightly. Looking down will likely cause you to collapse with heavier weights. You can get away with it at lower weights, but generally not higher.
Your breathing looks pretty good to me, with the belly breathing. Depth was good on reps 2-3, not entirely sure about rep 1, but that's not something I'd be really concerned with now. The bar path also looks pretty good. It might be a little forward, but that sometimes happens with lower weights. The only other thing I might suggest is taking just a touch more time between reps, to ensure you get a full breath. The actual rep speed seems fine, but ensuring you get a full breath should help keep your core tight.0 -
@zamphir66
First: are those regular sneekers, with a fairly squishy (or at least, not firm) sole/heel? If so, get out of those and either go barefoot (as it looks like you're in your own basement) or into some appropriate shoes: Appropriate shoes are something like Converse Chucks or an actual lifting shoe.
Thanks! I will work on those things.
As for the shoes, that was one of the first things I learned and internalized. I'm wearing hard sole Skechers. They feel like being barefoot, no give at all.
Almost forgot; Here's my deadlift:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IBOwLxl7yc
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And I'm back again... you guys are going to be so fed up of me...
Aigre's post reminded me that I have not had my deadlift form checked for a very long time, so here are 5 deadlifts @ 85kg, I did single, single, triple. Running stronglifts so only get one set of working deadlifts and never know whether to re-set up in between each or not. Any advice appreciated.
Have also posted my sorry OHP, 5 @ 30kg. OHP is so hard. As long as I'm not on the way to an injury I'll be happy.
Also could someone quickly check my depth on squats, 5 @ 67.5kg. Looks ok to me, close but good?
Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAfJ_rFO0Aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv04p2znz_4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXRNacUJ5w 1 -
You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
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For OHP it looks good but it does look like the bar is seated fairly high up in your palm which is creating a short moment arm between the bar and the forearm. You might want to see if you can seat the bar slightly deeper into the palm to center the bar over the forearm a bit more.1
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overall though, things look quite good IMO.1
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@zamphir66
First: are those regular sneekers, with a fairly squishy (or at least, not firm) sole/heel? If so, get out of those and either go barefoot (as it looks like you're in your own basement) or into some appropriate shoes: Appropriate shoes are something like Converse Chucks or an actual lifting shoe.
Thanks! I will work on those things.
As for the shoes, that was one of the first things I learned and internalized. I'm wearing hard sole Skechers. They feel like being barefoot, no give at all.
Almost forgot; Here's my deadlift:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IBOwLxl7yc
How long have you been deadlifting for?
I would like to see you cue the hips through a bit harder. Think about humping the barbell.0 -
You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yetFor OHP it looks good but it does look like the bar is seated fairly high up in your palm which is creating a short moment arm between the bar and the forearm. You might want to see if you can seat the bar slightly deeper into the palm to center the bar over the forearm a bit more.
Squat - I'm not prepping for a meet (I'm yet to think about whether this is something I might do, there doesn't seem to be much available in the UK unless I'm looking in the wrong places, but I want to leave my options open) so I will try to get a bit deeper. It's obviously tough as I am approaching my max here so it's hard to convince my mind to let me drop down
OHP - I completely understand what you are saying here. I will try to get the bar further down, this will also be good for my poor wrists!
Deadlift - good to hear. Deadlifts come much more naturally to me than anything else.0 -
How long have you been deadlifting for?
I would like to see you cue the hips through a bit harder. Think about humping the barbell.
Closing in on 2 months now.
So: A little more upright, straighter spine, is that kind of what you're saying? It "feels" like I'm standing straight -- it's so weird to see that I'm not, exactly.
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Stephie - I wish my deadlift looked as good as yours.0
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You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
I agree with Patrick but the thing that stood out to me was your deadlifts. Your bodily form looks good but the bar path is very odd. It goes back and then forward again (kinda a Z-shaped bar path). The forward motion at the end appears to be you getting your hips through (maybe a big exaggeratedly) but the backwards movement is kinda perplexing. It actually looks even worse on the eccentric, like you're just rolling the bar down your thighs instead of reversing the deadlift motion.
I'm not really sure as to the cause though, or if it's even a legit problem. The only thing I can think of is that you're late on getting your hips through. The bar looks like it passes your knees and starts going backwards before you start pushing your hips through, which then (eventually) pushes the bar forward again. Again, not sure if this is a real problem other than efficiency, a straight bar path is going to be the most efficient (and thus the most powerful).
I welcome critique of my analysis because I'm a little puzzled, myself.0 -
You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
It actually looks even worse on the eccentric, like you're just rolling the bar down your thighs instead of reversing the deadlift motion.
Erm... so you're saying this is not what I should be doing
oopsie
I guess I'll try not to do that!!! I'm not sure what I'm doing on the way up to cause the zig zag (the top is definitely hips, but should be simple to fix). I will try to push my hips through earlier (and less exaggerated) to see if this helps
Thanks!0 -
@StephieWillcox I have a similar issue right past the knees. I've found it tends to happen more when my lats aren't as engaged. YMMV ofc, but another thing to try.
In general in this thread I see a lot of exaggerated lockout/lumber hyperextension. While there isn't anything wrong with this per se, it can lead to SI issues for a lot of people especially women since our ligaments are more lax in general.
And another "in general" someone above posted that some butt wink isn't an issue. While I would agree that this probably won't cause a severe acute injury weighted flexion causes wear and tear on the ligament holding your spinal discs in their disc like shape. When it breaks down disc herniations and the like occur. Of course a large chunk of people will develop herniations at some point, and another chunk of those will experience no pain and probably never know they have them. It's not something I would lose sleep over, but it is something I would work on correcting over time.1 -
You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
I agree with Patrick but the thing that stood out to me was your deadlifts. Your bodily form looks good but the bar path is very odd. It goes back and then forward again (kinda a Z-shaped bar path). The forward motion at the end appears to be you getting your hips through (maybe a big exaggeratedly) but the backwards movement is kinda perplexing. It actually looks even worse on the eccentric, like you're just rolling the bar down your thighs instead of reversing the deadlift motion.
I'm not really sure as to the cause though, or if it's even a legit problem. The only thing I can think of is that you're late on getting your hips through. The bar looks like it passes your knees and starts going backwards before you start pushing your hips through, which then (eventually) pushes the bar forward again. Again, not sure if this is a real problem other than efficiency, a straight bar path is going to be the most efficient (and thus the most powerful).
I welcome critique of my analysis because I'm a little puzzled, myself.
Here's my evaluation of it having taken another look:
I think this is caused by an overexaggurated lockout. The eccentric issue is caused by bending at the knees early so the barbell has to round the knees.0 -
Another try from me?
Trying very hard to keep scapulae depressed. Not sure if successful. I think hips are still rising too early and not sure how to correct that. This is my 5th set, 105 lbs. Sorry the last rep got cut off, my phone ran out of memory.
https://youtu.be/gWB2QMAaJkY 0 -
You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
I agree with Patrick but the thing that stood out to me was your deadlifts. Your bodily form looks good but the bar path is very odd. It goes back and then forward again (kinda a Z-shaped bar path). The forward motion at the end appears to be you getting your hips through (maybe a big exaggeratedly) but the backwards movement is kinda perplexing. It actually looks even worse on the eccentric, like you're just rolling the bar down your thighs instead of reversing the deadlift motion.
I'm not really sure as to the cause though, or if it's even a legit problem. The only thing I can think of is that you're late on getting your hips through. The bar looks like it passes your knees and starts going backwards before you start pushing your hips through, which then (eventually) pushes the bar forward again. Again, not sure if this is a real problem other than efficiency, a straight bar path is going to be the most efficient (and thus the most powerful).
I welcome critique of my analysis because I'm a little puzzled, myself.
Here's my evaluation of it having taken another look:
I think this is caused by an overexaggurated lockout. The eccentric issue is caused by bending at the knees early so the barbell has to round the knees.
I agree on the lockout and the eccentric thing (that should have been obvious, I used to have the same problem on the eccentric). So basically the only thing remaining comes down to nitpicking that little bit of backwards movement on the concentric. It doesn't even look like a real problem at the moment but I'm thinking it may result in further form issues or even balance issues once the weight gets heavy enough. Maybe? I know for me, personally, my deadlift has really excelled once I began consistently moving the bar in a perfectly straight path.
Here's a random warmup set from last night (390 I think?) for an example, pretty much up and down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=featx9TRXi4 0 -
You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
I agree with Patrick but the thing that stood out to me was your deadlifts. Your bodily form looks good but the bar path is very odd. It goes back and then forward again (kinda a Z-shaped bar path). The forward motion at the end appears to be you getting your hips through (maybe a big exaggeratedly) but the backwards movement is kinda perplexing. It actually looks even worse on the eccentric, like you're just rolling the bar down your thighs instead of reversing the deadlift motion.
I'm not really sure as to the cause though, or if it's even a legit problem. The only thing I can think of is that you're late on getting your hips through. The bar looks like it passes your knees and starts going backwards before you start pushing your hips through, which then (eventually) pushes the bar forward again. Again, not sure if this is a real problem other than efficiency, a straight bar path is going to be the most efficient (and thus the most powerful).
I welcome critique of my analysis because I'm a little puzzled, myself.
Here's my evaluation of it having taken another look:
I think this is caused by an overexaggurated lockout. The eccentric issue is caused by bending at the knees early so the barbell has to round the knees.
I agree on the lockout and the eccentric thing (that should have been obvious, I used to have the same problem on the eccentric). So basically the only thing remaining comes down to nitpicking that little bit of backwards movement on the concentric. It doesn't even look like a real problem at the moment but I'm thinking it may result in further form issues or even balance issues once the weight gets heavy enough. Maybe? I know for me, personally, my deadlift has really excelled once I began consistently moving the bar in a perfectly straight path.
Here's a random warmup set from last night (390 I think?) for an example, pretty much up and down:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=featx9TRXi4
Are you talking about the backwards bit about half way up? I think that is because I'm so focused on trying to keep the bar close to my shins that as I extend I'm still pulling it close and I have no shins left to pull into, so there's a bit of an adjustment once I'm past my knees.
Your warm up deadlifts looked so smooth and easy!! I doubt 390 will ever be in my grasp but next session is 200 (90kg) which I'll be pretty happy with.
I'll try to work on this stuff and no doubt will be back in a month with another video! Thanks all0 -
StephieWillcox wrote: »You have really solid technique.
Hard for me to tell on the squat, a couple of reps looked good and one looked a bit shy.
If I were coaching you and you were prepping for a USAPL meet I would likely have you go slightly deeper to make certain you are below parallel without any judge having any question about it.
If you were not prepping for a meet I would be fine with where it is.
Deadlift looks good to me.
haven't checked OHP yet
I agree with Patrick but the thing that stood out to me was your deadlifts. Your bodily form looks good but the bar path is very odd. It goes back and then forward again (kinda a Z-shaped bar path). The forward motion at the end appears to be you getting your hips through (maybe a big exaggeratedly) but the backwards movement is kinda perplexing. It actually looks even worse on the eccentric, like you're just rolling the bar down your thighs instead of reversing the deadlift motion.
I'm not really sure as to the cause though, or if it's even a legit problem. The only thing I can think of is that you're late on getting your hips through. The bar looks like it passes your knees and starts going backwards before you start pushing your hips through, which then (eventually) pushes the bar forward again. Again, not sure if this is a real problem other than efficiency, a straight bar path is going to be the most efficient (and thus the most powerful).
I welcome critique of my analysis because I'm a little puzzled, myself.
Here's my evaluation of it having taken another look:
I think this is caused by an overexaggurated lockout. The eccentric issue is caused by bending at the knees early so the barbell has to round the knees.
I agree on the lockout and the eccentric thing (that should have been obvious, I used to have the same problem on the eccentric). So basically the only thing remaining comes down to nitpicking that little bit of backwards movement on the concentric. It doesn't even look like a real problem at the moment but I'm thinking it may result in further form issues or even balance issues once the weight gets heavy enough. Maybe? I know for me, personally, my deadlift has really excelled once I began consistently moving the bar in a perfectly straight path.
Here's a random warmup set from last night (390 I think?) for an example, pretty much up and down:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=featx9TRXi4
Are you talking about the backwards bit about half way up? I think that is because I'm so focused on trying to keep the bar close to my shins that as I extend I'm still pulling it close and I have no shins left to pull into, so there's a bit of an adjustment once I'm past my knees.
Your warm up deadlifts looked so smooth and easy!! I doubt 390 will ever be in my grasp but next session is 200 (90kg) which I'll be pretty happy with.
I'll try to work on this stuff and no doubt will be back in a month with another video! Thanks all
Yeah at the end of the day, like I said, I'm not even sure if it's a real problem. It's just something to look at I suppose. I know you are quite strong (especially if you are looking at 200 right now) and at that kind of strength level, every little bit of technique can help. Diminishing returns and all that.1 -
@DopeItUp - do you think it's the same reason for the zigzag on the way down too?
I had to go back and review again too, plates hide some of the action, but it appears knees are going out before bar gets past them, so they like hit the thighs first, now have to get past the already bent knees, then back again following shins down.
@StephieWilcox - I'm really surprised that with that much weight it's not naturally wanting to do a straight bar path anyway - which shows some good supporting muscles strength to be moving it around like that anyway.1
This discussion has been closed.