Me Vs. the Binge -- August 2017 Challenge
Options
Replies
-
0
-
dianna1286 wrote: »I binged yesterday before finding this post. Maybe this is what i needed...
Today is a new day!
Welcome!
0 -
Aug 9
Me: 9*
Binge: 0
DBF: 91 -
hillmike56 wrote: »Me: 9
B: 0
DBF: 24
I don't know how to control my weight or the BINGE without this modern day tool from MFP and counting. I applaud you guys that are going that route and finding success. I also have made a major victory with my wife by not bringing my phone out at a restaurant and asking "how many calories you think this Pad Thai Tofu is"? This is a interesting conversation you guys are having I just hope my BINGE doesn't try to use it against me.
@hillmike56 - Don't get me wrong, I'm not making any forward progress with weight currently either, but I'm not gaining... I'm trying to get into a new pattern of thinking, and it's so different from anything I've attempted before, so it's kind of a painful learning process... I either have to use a more restrictive plan (lower carb or lower fat) and/or more extreme options(crazy low cal) to lose...but, I think if I can get settled into this mindset on food, I can start to wrap my mind around getting more active again... My body is suffering from injuries and neglect and condition related muscle weakness and exercise limitations... It's all a struggle, but I've learned that focusing on only one thing at a time gives me better chances at long term success...
Kudos for driving your wife a little less crazy along the way, too...0 -
BarneyRubbleMD wrote: »My update for August 9, 2017...sorry if this is a bit long but it's a "milestone" for me!
Me: 9
Binge: 0
Days Binge Free: 94
My BED (Binge Eating Disorder) NSV (Non Scale Victory) has finally arrived!--since my last binge episode was more than 90 days ago (on 5/7/2017), I'm now clinically cleared of my BED & no longer meet the clinical criteria for having BED. My follow-up appointment with my Eating Disorder Dr isn't until mid-September so nothing "official" can go back to my PCP (Primary Care Physician) until then but I don't feel like I'll be likely to have any binge episodes before then anyway, but until then, I'm being extra careful.
What has help me get my Binge Eating Disorder (BED) under control...
1. Keeping my blood sugars under good control (I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic) helped immensely with getting my BED better controlled as I discovered that if my blood sugars got above 140 mg/dl after a meal, I'd get hungry instead of satiated and if my blood sugars got over 200 mg/dl, it would always trigger a binge & those binges would leave me still hungry even after "stuffing" myself--I had to use my meal-time insulin to first bring those blood sugar #'s back down under 140 mg/dl before I'd have any hope of feeling satiated after a meal.
2. Changing to a meal schedule of 4 smaller meals/day with meals separated by 3 hours rather than "a small meal in the morning and a large one between 2pm & 4pm", also helped to stabilize my blood sugars & keep my insulin doses consistent across those 4 meals whereas before I kept getting large swings in blood sugars requiring varying amounts of meal-time insulin at each meal to get the blood sugar back under control. This new meal schedule also kept my hunger in check as it takes me 30-60 minutes to eat and that means I only have to wait another 2-2.5 hours until the next meal vs another 4-4.5 hours on my prior meal schedule which was sometimes just too long for this diabetic to go without eating.
3. The Topamax medication (prescribed by my eating disorder Dr for binge eating) also helped to curb the urges to binge. I especially noticed this when walking past cupcakes at the grocery store & just looking at them but not buying them (I always did before, especially if I hadn't eaten yet) or when their hot-foods deli had old-bay seasoned tater tots & I could smell them, look at them, think about them BUT not buy them (& all the carbs that go with them and the resulting high blood sugar #'s that would result if I did eat them)--I always bought them in the past because I just could NOT resist. I'm on a fairly low dose (75 mg) of Topamax (generic Topiramate) but it seems to be working well. Someday, I'll see if I can do without it but I'm not there yet.
My SV (scale victory) for today (8/9/2017), since it's my weigh-in day (Wednesdays): I've lost 2 lbs since last Wednesday and a total of 77.6 lbs since New Years!
@BarneyRubbleMD - CONGRATULATIONS!!! This is absolutely fabulous!!! Topamax is one of the meds (in combo with another) that was mentioned to me by a new doc who just wanted to give me weight loss drugs, and I declined, as that wasn't the one she ended up prescribing, and the one she did write out was one that had interactions with another medication I take...so I just passed on it all... I've been doing okay with l-glutamine for this...but I'll definitely consider Topamax as another option. Thanks for that perspective!1 -
PetitClapotis wrote: »I have zero control with peanut butter and it was ugly yesterday
I cannot be trusted around peanut butter 
@PetitClapotis - Most peanut butter is what they call the perfect storm - the perfect balance of sweet, salty, and fatty... It sets off dopamine reactions in your brain. So don't feel too badly, sincerely. The industry has geared that product against you. I find that almond butter does okay for me, but if sweetened, I have that same reaction to it... You can actually try the natural butter (just salt, nuts) to see if it's that trifecta for you... Some folks taste the natural sweetness of the nuts, still, but fewer folks find this a trigger.2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »BarneyRubbleMD wrote: »My update for August 9, 2017...sorry if this is a bit long but it's a "milestone" for me!
Me: 9
Binge: 0
Days Binge Free: 94
My BED (Binge Eating Disorder) NSV (Non Scale Victory) has finally arrived!--since my last binge episode was more than 90 days ago (on 5/7/2017), I'm now clinically cleared of my BED & no longer meet the clinical criteria for having BED. My follow-up appointment with my Eating Disorder Dr isn't until mid-September so nothing "official" can go back to my PCP (Primary Care Physician) until then but I don't feel like I'll be likely to have any binge episodes before then anyway, but until then, I'm being extra careful.
What has help me get my Binge Eating Disorder (BED) under control...
1. Keeping my blood sugars under good control (I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic) helped immensely with getting my BED better controlled as I discovered that if my blood sugars got above 140 mg/dl after a meal, I'd get hungry instead of satiated and if my blood sugars got over 200 mg/dl, it would always trigger a binge & those binges would leave me still hungry even after "stuffing" myself--I had to use my meal-time insulin to first bring those blood sugar #'s back down under 140 mg/dl before I'd have any hope of feeling satiated after a meal.
2. Changing to a meal schedule of 4 smaller meals/day with meals separated by 3 hours rather than "a small meal in the morning and a large one between 2pm & 4pm", also helped to stabilize my blood sugars & keep my insulin doses consistent across those 4 meals whereas before I kept getting large swings in blood sugars requiring varying amounts of meal-time insulin at each meal to get the blood sugar back under control. This new meal schedule also kept my hunger in check as it takes me 30-60 minutes to eat and that means I only have to wait another 2-2.5 hours until the next meal vs another 4-4.5 hours on my prior meal schedule which was sometimes just too long for this diabetic to go without eating.
3. The Topamax medication (prescribed by my eating disorder Dr for binge eating) also helped to curb the urges to binge. I especially noticed this when walking past cupcakes at the grocery store & just looking at them but not buying them (I always did before, especially if I hadn't eaten yet) or when their hot-foods deli had old-bay seasoned tater tots & I could smell them, look at them, think about them BUT not buy them (& all the carbs that go with them and the resulting high blood sugar #'s that would result if I did eat them)--I always bought them in the past because I just could NOT resist. I'm on a fairly low dose (75 mg) of Topamax (generic Topiramate) but it seems to be working well. Someday, I'll see if I can do without it but I'm not there yet.
My SV (scale victory) for today (8/9/2017), since it's my weigh-in day (Wednesdays): I've lost 2 lbs since last Wednesday and a total of 77.6 lbs since New Years!
@BarneyRubbleMD - CONGRATULATIONS!!! This is absolutely fabulous!!! Topamax is one of the meds (in combo with another) that was mentioned to me by a new doc who just wanted to give me weight loss drugs, and I declined, as that wasn't the one she ended up prescribing, and the one she did write out was one that had interactions with another medication I take...so I just passed on it all... I've been doing okay with l-glutamine for this...but I'll definitely consider Topamax as another option. Thanks for that perspective!
@KnitOrMiss ,
At the time of my Dr visit, I had never heard of Topamax. I had asked about Vyvanse being used to treat binge eating disorder but that can raise blood pressure & the Dr didn't want to also have to increase my BP meds & recommended Topamax instead. She said that some binge eaters are helped by Vyvanse while others are not and the same with Topamax and I wouldn't really know until I tried it, starting out with a low dose (50mg) and moving up from there. I noticed a difference at 50mg but we settled on 75mg & I've been there since.
I didn't know about Topamax being a weight loss medication, although, if it helps me binge less, that's got to help with weight loss too (& it certainly has). Topamax was originally used (when taken in high doses) to control seizures & for treating migraines but people who took it reported that it reduced the "hyper-palatable" effect of foods like pizza or Doritos or cupcakes (i.e. my trigger foods). Now that I'm taking it and occasionally will have a slice of pizza for a meal, I do notice that pizza no longer has that same "wow" factor when I eat it like it had in the past that drove me back to eat more slices of pizza. I think that's why I can get by now with just 1 slice of pizza at a meal along with my other veggies & a fruit to help fill me up instead of eating 4-6 slices of pizza and then trying to deal with the high blood sugars that result.
1 -
@BarneyRubbleMD - Qysmia was what my doc Rx'd, and nope.... Wasn't into that...due to the pentermine, which is probably what put you and your doc off of it too... I had forgotten that it was the one with Topamax. Since I did develop ocular migraines over a year ago, I might consider this, even though they are currently well managed by avoiding fermented foods and taking a second dose of my BP pills... Definitely will keep it as a back up option! Thanks for the info.1
-
@BarneyRubbleMD CONGRATS!!!!!
It's so interesting reading about all the different triggers. I cannot tell you all how much it means that I can actually talk about triggers with people and not be met with a willpower argument or rolled eyes. Eating and food is so inconsequential to many people around me, and I always feel completely neurotic about it. It feels good to be in company with you all.
@PetitClapotis I am like that with homemade Nutella. I have to make it verrrry rarely (which isn't too hard considering how expensive hazelnuts can be), and when I do, I usually eat half a jar in one setting.
Me: 6
The B: 32 -
brittdee88 wrote: »@PetitClapotis I am like that with homemade Nutella. I have to make it verrrry rarely (which isn't too hard considering how expensive hazelnuts can be), and when I do, I usually eat half a jar in one setting.
Me: 6
The B: 3
That's exactly what I did yesterday. I opened a jar and said I was just gonna have one tbsp and then bam! Ended with the whole jar gone in one sitting... Today I woke up so bloated, puffy eyes and have horrible toothache. I loathe myself!!!0 -
Me: 9
B: 0
DBF: 9
@BarneyRubbleMD - congrats! That is AWESOME!
Loving all the comments and stories everyone is posting, both the wins and the struggles. Whether we're having good days or bad days, none of us are alone in this, and that's comforting.3 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »I have zero control with peanut butter and it was ugly yesterday I cannot be trusted around peanut butter
@PetitClapotis - Most peanut butter is what they call the perfect storm - the perfect balance of sweet, salty, and fatty... It sets off dopamine reactions in your brain. So don't feel too badly, sincerely. The industry has geared that product against you. I find that almond butter does okay for me, but if sweetened, I have that same reaction to it... You can actually try the natural butter (just salt, nuts) to see if it's that trifecta for you... Some folks taste the natural sweetness of the nuts, still, but fewer folks find this a trigger.
Thank you so much! Nuts have always been my favorite snacks and I can never stop at a handful. Nut butter? Don't even get me started I'll literally dip my head into it. My local grocery sells fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter, will give it a try some time, but for now I'd better steer clear of any nuts and nut butter since I have a horrible toothache and huge break out in my face after yesterday's binge. I feel so bloated and thirsty that I lose my appetite my body aches all over... major inflammation reactions I messed up big time...and I blame myself for that... 0 -
PetitClapotis wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »I have zero control with peanut butter and it was ugly yesterday I cannot be trusted around peanut butter
@PetitClapotis - Most peanut butter is what they call the perfect storm - the perfect balance of sweet, salty, and fatty... It sets off dopamine reactions in your brain. So don't feel too badly, sincerely. The industry has geared that product against you. I find that almond butter does okay for me, but if sweetened, I have that same reaction to it... You can actually try the natural butter (just salt, nuts) to see if it's that trifecta for you... Some folks taste the natural sweetness of the nuts, still, but fewer folks find this a trigger.
Thank you so much! Nuts have always been my favorite snacks and I can never stop at a handful. Nut butter? Don't even get me started I'll literally dip my head into it. My local grocery sells fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter, will give it a try some time, but for now I'd better steer clear of any nuts and nut butter since I have a horrible toothache and huge break out in my face after yesterday's binge. I feel so bloated and thirsty that I lose my appetite my body aches all over... major inflammation reactions I messed up big time...and I blame myself for that...
@PetitClapotis - A lot of that inflammation and bloating is probably from the peanuts. They are NOT a nut. They are a legume. And most people have inflammation from them... As well as whatever oils they add to emulsify it can also be very inflammatory. Stick to non-peanut butters when you can. Try to get UNSALTED nuts...they take some getting used to, but they don't create that instant "GIMME MORE" response. Raw nuts can be soaked... Many nuts contain anti-nutrients that create an immune response in us...so we have to fight back how we can. Just remember, at first, natural nut butters are going to be a BLECH type feeling, because they won't be ... Willy Wonka'd.... (HUGS)
P.S. - STOP THE BLAME GAME. It perpetuates the binge cycle. It's over. It's done. The world didn't end. Accept that you were weak, that you succumbed to a temptation that was beyond your plan, and look for root causes. But simple fact is, it happened. You are aware, and you accept it. You don't want the side effects, but you accept that you triggered them. In a month, year, or decade, will this one event of having gone off plan really matter? Nope, consider it knowledge gained and PUT IT BEHIND YOU and use your frustration as FUEL to make a better choice next time.! GUILT is worse than and calorie, carb, or piece of junk food could EVER BE.... DO NOT BE A VICTIM OF GUILT. Accept that we don't always make the best choices - but don't let a poor choice affect your next one!!!! Focus on being better next time, but not expect the best EVERY TIME...it's not sustainable... In other words, love yourself, be kind to yourself, and move on to the next good thing you can do for YOU!!!
2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »I have zero control with peanut butter and it was ugly yesterday I cannot be trusted around peanut butter
@PetitClapotis - Most peanut butter is what they call the perfect storm - the perfect balance of sweet, salty, and fatty... It sets off dopamine reactions in your brain. So don't feel too badly, sincerely. The industry has geared that product against you. I find that almond butter does okay for me, but if sweetened, I have that same reaction to it... You can actually try the natural butter (just salt, nuts) to see if it's that trifecta for you... Some folks taste the natural sweetness of the nuts, still, but fewer folks find this a trigger.
Thank you so much! Nuts have always been my favorite snacks and I can never stop at a handful. Nut butter? Don't even get me started I'll literally dip my head into it. My local grocery sells fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter, will give it a try some time, but for now I'd better steer clear of any nuts and nut butter since I have a horrible toothache and huge break out in my face after yesterday's binge. I feel so bloated and thirsty that I lose my appetite my body aches all over... major inflammation reactions I messed up big time...and I blame myself for that...
@PetitClapotis - A lot of that inflammation and bloating is probably from the peanuts. They are NOT a nut. They are a legume. And most people have inflammation from them... As well as whatever oils they add to emulsify it can also be very inflammatory. Stick to non-peanut butters when you can. Try to get UNSALTED nuts...they take some getting used to, but they don't create that instant "GIMME MORE" response. Raw nuts can be soaked... Many nuts contain anti-nutrients that create an immune response in us...so we have to fight back how we can. Just remember, at first, natural nut butters are going to be a BLECH type feeling, because they won't be ... Willy Wonka'd.... (HUGS)
P.S. - STOP THE BLAME GAME. It perpetuates the binge cycle. It's over. It's done. The world didn't end. Accept that you were weak, that you succumbed to a temptation that was beyond your plan, and look for root causes. But simple fact is, it happened. You are aware, and you accept it. You don't want the side effects, but you accept that you triggered them. In a month, year, or decade, will this one event of having gone off plan really matter? Nope, consider it knowledge gained and PUT IT BEHIND YOU and use your frustration as FUEL to make a better choice next time.! GUILT is worse than and calorie, carb, or piece of junk food could EVER BE.... DO NOT BE A VICTIM OF GUILT. Accept that we don't always make the best choices - but don't let a poor choice affect your next one!!!! Focus on being better next time, but not expect the best EVERY TIME...it's not sustainable... In other words, love yourself, be kind to yourself, and move on to the next good thing you can do for YOU!!!
Thank you so much!!! This made me cry!!1 -
PetitClapotis wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »I have zero control with peanut butter and it was ugly yesterday I cannot be trusted around peanut butter
@PetitClapotis - Most peanut butter is what they call the perfect storm - the perfect balance of sweet, salty, and fatty... It sets off dopamine reactions in your brain. So don't feel too badly, sincerely. The industry has geared that product against you. I find that almond butter does okay for me, but if sweetened, I have that same reaction to it... You can actually try the natural butter (just salt, nuts) to see if it's that trifecta for you... Some folks taste the natural sweetness of the nuts, still, but fewer folks find this a trigger.
Thank you so much! Nuts have always been my favorite snacks and I can never stop at a handful. Nut butter? Don't even get me started I'll literally dip my head into it. My local grocery sells fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter, will give it a try some time, but for now I'd better steer clear of any nuts and nut butter since I have a horrible toothache and huge break out in my face after yesterday's binge. I feel so bloated and thirsty that I lose my appetite my body aches all over... major inflammation reactions I messed up big time...and I blame myself for that...
@PetitClapotis - A lot of that inflammation and bloating is probably from the peanuts. They are NOT a nut. They are a legume. And most people have inflammation from them... As well as whatever oils they add to emulsify it can also be very inflammatory. Stick to non-peanut butters when you can. Try to get UNSALTED nuts...they take some getting used to, but they don't create that instant "GIMME MORE" response. Raw nuts can be soaked... Many nuts contain anti-nutrients that create an immune response in us...so we have to fight back how we can. Just remember, at first, natural nut butters are going to be a BLECH type feeling, because they won't be ... Willy Wonka'd.... (HUGS)
P.S. - STOP THE BLAME GAME. It perpetuates the binge cycle. It's over. It's done. The world didn't end. Accept that you were weak, that you succumbed to a temptation that was beyond your plan, and look for root causes. But simple fact is, it happened. You are aware, and you accept it. You don't want the side effects, but you accept that you triggered them. In a month, year, or decade, will this one event of having gone off plan really matter? Nope, consider it knowledge gained and PUT IT BEHIND YOU and use your frustration as FUEL to make a better choice next time.! GUILT is worse than and calorie, carb, or piece of junk food could EVER BE.... DO NOT BE A VICTIM OF GUILT. Accept that we don't always make the best choices - but don't let a poor choice affect your next one!!!! Focus on being better next time, but not expect the best EVERY TIME...it's not sustainable... In other words, love yourself, be kind to yourself, and move on to the next good thing you can do for YOU!!!
Thank you so much!!! This made me cry!!
You are welcome. It just breaks my heart when we do this to ourselves... It is a personal heartbreak I fight daily to stay ahead of...if any of my pain/struggles can save anyone else a moment...I'm all over that. (HUGS)
P.S. YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING GOOD.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »PetitClapotis wrote: »I have zero control with peanut butter and it was ugly yesterday I cannot be trusted around peanut butter
@PetitClapotis - Most peanut butter is what they call the perfect storm - the perfect balance of sweet, salty, and fatty... It sets off dopamine reactions in your brain. So don't feel too badly, sincerely. The industry has geared that product against you. I find that almond butter does okay for me, but if sweetened, I have that same reaction to it... You can actually try the natural butter (just salt, nuts) to see if it's that trifecta for you... Some folks taste the natural sweetness of the nuts, still, but fewer folks find this a trigger.
Thank you so much! Nuts have always been my favorite snacks and I can never stop at a handful. Nut butter? Don't even get me started I'll literally dip my head into it. My local grocery sells fresh ground peanut butter and almond butter, will give it a try some time, but for now I'd better steer clear of any nuts and nut butter since I have a horrible toothache and huge break out in my face after yesterday's binge. I feel so bloated and thirsty that I lose my appetite my body aches all over... major inflammation reactions I messed up big time...and I blame myself for that...
@PetitClapotis - A lot of that inflammation and bloating is probably from the peanuts. They are NOT a nut. They are a legume. And most people have inflammation from them... As well as whatever oils they add to emulsify it can also be very inflammatory. Stick to non-peanut butters when you can. Try to get UNSALTED nuts...they take some getting used to, but they don't create that instant "GIMME MORE" response. Raw nuts can be soaked... Many nuts contain anti-nutrients that create an immune response in us...so we have to fight back how we can. Just remember, at first, natural nut butters are going to be a BLECH type feeling, because they won't be ... Willy Wonka'd.... (HUGS)
P.S. - STOP THE BLAME GAME. It perpetuates the binge cycle. It's over. It's done. The world didn't end. Accept that you were weak, that you succumbed to a temptation that was beyond your plan, and look for root causes. But simple fact is, it happened. You are aware, and you accept it. You don't want the side effects, but you accept that you triggered them. In a month, year, or decade, will this one event of having gone off plan really matter? Nope, consider it knowledge gained and PUT IT BEHIND YOU and use your frustration as FUEL to make a better choice next time.! GUILT is worse than and calorie, carb, or piece of junk food could EVER BE.... DO NOT BE A VICTIM OF GUILT. Accept that we don't always make the best choices - but don't let a poor choice affect your next one!!!! Focus on being better next time, but not expect the best EVERY TIME...it's not sustainable... In other words, love yourself, be kind to yourself, and move on to the next good thing you can do for YOU!!!
Thank you so much!!! This made me cry!!
You are welcome. It just breaks my heart when we do this to ourselves... It is a personal heartbreak I fight daily to stay ahead of...if any of my pain/struggles can save anyone else a moment...I'm all over that. (HUGS)
P.S. YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING GOOD.
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement! I needed this. After reading this, no matter what happened the night before, I can wake up and feel like I have a new lease on life, a clean slate, that a chapter has ended and a new one has begun. I had lots of raw vegetables w/ hummus, a small bowl of old fashioned oatmeal w/cinnamon, and some fruits today. No refined sugar or artificial stuff. I'm gonna keep it this way for a couple of days and see how I feel. Thank you again for picking me off the dirt
you have a heart of pure gold! 1 -
Me: 10
B: 0
DBF: 25
I've been hanging out here since last November. For a lot of months it seemed like there were just 2 or 3 regulars posting. So in my time this is the most interesting time on the board. So many folks at so many stages of the battle with the BINGE. Good Luck to you all and please stay with us. I'm so pumped from yesterday to be able to step on the scales in the afternoon at my normal BMI. So close to trying to figure out how to dial back on the obsession and go into to maintenance mode. But there was one guy months back when I was still fighting the BINGE to get to my BMI that started telling me about this test DEXA (Dual-Energy X-Ray Absorptiometry). So my obsession now at 61 is do I go that route and think about where my fat is stored or have a beer move on to some of my other issues in life? I'll let you know.3 -
@hillmike56 - I'm 41, but I've spent more than half my life overweight or obese, and at least the last decade morbidly obese. I'm actually having a calcium scoring test (heart arterial buildup) today (screening) and a DEXA test next week (due to over a decade of vitamin D and other nutrient deficiencies AND a screening showing possible low bone density)... I don't know what all information I'll get, but I'm happy to share any experiences, if you're interested...as well as any other lab values that apply.0
-
Me: 9
B: 1
DBF: 0
Had a feeling that would happen- this week has been one major "case of the F-its." Clearly I need to somehow break the link between my emotions and my eating habits, and stay focused no matter what life throws at me. Tomorrow I have the house to myself, which is my biggest trigger...yet, because of how crazy the past few weeks have been, I WANT the house to myself. I just wish it didn't mean guaranteed binge urges, especially since I'm already feeling weak. I think I'll spend some time meal planning/prepping- there's something about doing that, even when I don't feel like it, that helps get my determination and hopefulness (is that even a word?) back.1 -
Me: 10
B: 0
Days binge-free: 234
