Woman Claims to be a 'Former Lesbian'
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he is.
see:username.0 -
Well, that being the case (that he's serious):
RE: Hypocrisy
The reason I don't buy that meeting this person's claims with skepticism is hypocrisy is because when someone comes out as homosexual, frequently the claim is not that they turned gay or that they suddenly chose to be gay. The idea is generally that the choice that they made is that they now wish to stop lying about who they have always been. When a gay person then decides that they're now straight, it raises some questions. Were they straight all the time and pretending to be gay for some reason? Do they really think they can choose orientation? I think being skeptical is justified.
RE: Natural Order of Things
I love this argument because frequently the same people who say this will simply counter examples of same-sex couplings found in other species with "It's natural for some animals to eat each other but we don't do that." There's an assumption there that there's something special about humans and our mating habits that makes us unique in the animal kingdom; *our* natural order is somehow different than others. If we take that as true, then we could also come to the possible conclusion that our sole purpose for coupling is not necessarily to reproduce. There would be no need to spend any time together after our reproductive years are past, and yet we do. Clearly it's more complex than the parts do or don't match up.
RE: Unhappy Homosexuals
It's actually pretty normal for people in the LGBT community to be unhappy about being who they are. If you live in a society where you're taught to hate yourself because of something you feel is innate and that you're born with, it can cause a fair bit of damage. The problem is the assumption that being LGBT is what needs to be fixed.
RE: Lifestyles and Choices
There is no "homosexual lifestyle." There is a gay sub-culture, certainly, and it was developed out of a necessity of being othered. I just don't think think a difference in the gender of the people who somebody loves/is attracted to/marries/dates, etc, constitutes a different lifestyle.
I still have no reason to believe that people choose to be homosexual. People don't choose to be heterosexual. I have never talked to a single self-identified straight man who said, "I could go either way, but I weighed all the options and decided I liked women." Sexual orientation isn't just about behavior; it's also partly about identity.0 -
According to some of my gay friends, there is a "homosexual lifestyle". It means having sexual relationships with members of the same sex, living in a relationship with someone of the same sex, going to gay bars or clubs, etc. They claim there certainly is a gay lifestyle. Many homosexuals choose not to "live the lifestyle", for whatever reason. Of course, this is just what I know from my gay friends and I realize homosexuals don't all speak for each other.There is no "homosexual lifestyle." There is a gay sub-culture, certainly, and it was developed out of a necessity of being othered. I just don't think think a difference in the gender of the people who somebody loves/is attracted to/marries/dates, etc, constitutes a different lifestyle.0 -
You just don't understand it. When someone who has lived as a heterosexual (not being one, but living as one) "comes out", it's celebrated to give support for someone having the strength and courage to finally tell people. I don't know that it's so much a celebration like, "Yes! We got one more for our team" as it is a form of support and welcoming.Here is the hypocrisy, when someone who was straight comes out, it's celebrated. When a homosexual turns straight, it's met with suspicion and the thought that there must be something wrong with that person.0 -
According to some of my gay friends, there is a "homosexual lifestyle". It means having sexual relationships with members of the same sex, living in a relationship with someone of the same sex, going to gay bars or clubs, etc. They claim there certainly is a gay lifestyle. Many homosexuals choose not to "live the lifestyle", for whatever reason. Of course, this is just what I know from my gay friends and I realize homosexuals don't all speak for each other.There is no "homosexual lifestyle." There is a gay sub-culture, certainly, and it was developed out of a necessity of being othered. I just don't think think a difference in the gender of the people who somebody loves/is attracted to/marries/dates, etc, constitutes a different lifestyle.
I don't know that I'd want to go into specifics, but my point was that the lifestyle you describe is virtually identical to that of many 20 something heterosexuals. The only difference is that they don't date people of the same sex.
Gay People:
-wander through stores with a cart full of housewares (so to straight people)
-argue about paint color in the living room (so to straight couples)
-go out dancing (so do straight people)
The list goes on.
There's nothing intrinsic to a homosexual lifestyle binds it to gay culture apart from the people who live it. Generally people who believe there's a homosexual lifestyle (whether they are homosexual or heterosexual themselves) are really talking about stereotypes, but it is my contention is that those stereotypes do not a lifestyle make.
I'll admit it, I've been to a brunch with straight friends who were arguing over how sharp a garlic pesto brie was and I thought to myself, "Wow, that's super duper gay. I don't even like brie." But I don't think it means they're living a homosexual lifestyle. It's not as if I'm living a heterosexual lifestyle because I'm not a stereotypical gay man.0 -
I understand what you're saying. I think what my friends mean is, they live like they're gay. Not like they're heterosexuals because of stigmas of society. So, they'll go to their own clubs, they will meet with groups of other gay people, they will not hide that they are gay. To them that means they're "living a gay lifestyle". I didn't mean it in a negative way.I don't know that I'd want to go into specifics, but my point was that the lifestyle you describe is virtually identical to that of many 20 something heterosexuals. The only difference is that they don't date people of the same sex.
Gay People:
-wander through stores with a cart full of housewares (so to straight people)
-argue about paint color in the living room (so to straight couples)
-go out dancing (so do straight people)
The list goes on. There's nothing intrinsic to a homosexual lifestyle binds it to gay culture apart from the people who live it. Generally people who believe there's a homosexual lifestyle (whether they are homosexual or heterosexual themselves) are really talking about stereotypes, but it is my contention is that those stereotypes do not a lifestyle make.
I'll admit it, I've been to a brunch with straight friends who were arguing over how sharp a garlic pesto brie was and I thought to myself, "Wow, that's super duper gay. I don't even like brie." But I don't think it means they're living a homosexual lifestyle. It's not as if I'm living a heterosexual lifestyle because I'm not a stereotypical gay man.0 -
I understand what you're saying. I think what my friends mean is, they live like they're gay. Not like they're heterosexuals because of stigmas of society. So, they'll go to their own clubs, they will meet with groups of other gay people, they will not hide that they are gay. To them that means they're "living a gay lifestyle". I didn't mean it in a negative way.
I guess I would call that just not being closeted, and possibly also a little isolationist (probably out of a perceived need). It's an interesting turn of phrase, I think. It would never occur to me that "living a gay lifestyle" would translate into just being who you are. I think it's probably a shame that they feel the need to call their lifestyle something different just because they're not hiding it, and they feel threatened by stigma--or something more concrete, even.0 -
It upsets me when people think being gay is a choice. It's not. Why would anyone choose it?
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but society isn't exactly nice about it.0 -
I understand what you're saying. I think what my friends mean is, they live like they're gay. Not like they're heterosexuals because of stigmas of society. So, they'll go to their own clubs, they will meet with groups of other gay people, they will not hide that they are gay. To them that means they're "living a gay lifestyle". I didn't mean it in a negative way.
I guess I would call that just not being closeted, and possibly also a little isolationist (probably out of a perceived need). It's an interesting turn of phrase, I think. It would never occur to me that "living a gay lifestyle" would translate into just being who you are. I think it's probably a shame that they feel the need to call their lifestyle something different just because they're not hiding it, and they feel threatened by stigma--or something more concrete, even.
I'm an older woman. I'm 54, have a couple of grown kids and three grandchildren. I don't know very many gay/lesbian people, and of the few that I know I don't socialise with many. On Saturday one of my grandchildren will be turning two. Like any Nana, I had fun shopping for a gift, will get some baking done before the party, and I'm looking forward to spending time with our extended family of which there are many members of four generations.
We live peacefully in our community, work, live, love, enjoy our family who come for a meal and often to stay. We care for our young, care for our elderly, can be relied on to do our volunteer and charitable bit --- really, our life is not at all extraordinary.
My partner, who is also 'Nana' to the birthday boy, and I are hardly ever given cause to consider that there may be something 'unusual' about us. But when it does happen it is always a powerful blow. You see most of the time we are accepted for what we are: a couple like any other.
During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".0 -
That is unfortunate. I'm not sure if you're referring to this discussion or others in this group, but most of what I see is a group of people trying to understand each other and our differences.During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".0 -
During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".
I've felt uncomfortable, too.0 -
I too believe people are born with a sexual prefernce and it does not change. I identify myself as pansexual, I can be attracted to any and all sexual orientations: male, female, transgender, etc... I've felt that way since I was a pre-teen and eventually realized it wasn't the typical "experimental stage" and that is who I am and how I was born.
I know a gay man who is married to a woman and has a family because he is Mormon. For the sake of his parents and family, he lives a life that he was not meant for. EVERYONE knows he is gay but his family choses to ignore it. He is visibly miserable and acts on his inner-gay, in a less than discreet way. If he were to be who he wanted, he would lose his family and be removed from his church.
I've known women who have gone from straight to lesbian and one who went back to straight. All of those women were abused by a man before they became lesbian. I think this was purely mental or emotional. They feared the pain that a man could cause and felt more safe with a woman. My aunt admitted this after her first husband beat her and she moved in with a woman, then married a man again.0 -
That is unfortunate. I'm not sure if you're referring to this discussion or others in this group, but most of what I see is a group of people trying to understand each other and our differences.During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".
Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/602133-am-i-gay
Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.
It's a little disturbing for me to read. I'm not surprised, exactly, but still disturbed. The people who casually joke about committing suicide if they were gay combined with the people claiming it's the best thread ever are a constant reminder of why equality needs to be championed.0 -
I never saw that thread. That's why I said "most of what I see", and I was only referring to this thread and the debate group.Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:
Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.0 -
That is unfortunate. I'm not sure if you're referring to this discussion or others in this group, but most of what I see is a group of people trying to understand each other and our differences.During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".
Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/602133-am-i-gay
Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.
It's a little disturbing for me to read. I'm not surprised, exactly, but still disturbed. The people who casually joke about committing suicide if they were gay combined with the people claiming it's the best thread ever are a constant reminder of why equality needs to be championed.
I only read the first page... Sometimes I think people just need to lighten up. There was also a gay man who commented there and said something along the lines of "no, even us gay men don't like Justin Beiber." It's no different than starting a thread about being so fat you can't get on a rollercoaster or you are afraid of breaking a chair and then a fat person saying "hey, I'm offended even though you aren't directly talking to me."
Then again, I am not for censorship or being politically correct. I really get annoyed with people who act overly offended by everything. I know we've had the "using retard as a slang term" discussion in this group. I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled. It's nothing meant to be offensive, just an expression.0 -
It's too bad that you can't see why that would be offensive. While I'll grant you that some people need to "lighten up", I also believe many people need to learn to be considerate and sensitive to others' points of view. If you know that the word "retarded" is offensive to many, why would you keep using it?I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled.0 -
I never saw that thread. That's why I said "most of what I see", and I was only referring to this thread and the debate group.Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:
Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.
I'm aware of what you were saying. What *I* was saying was that there's more that goes than in this group (or what you or I see, for that matter). And even if we see the same things, we're probably sensitive to different rhetorical messages that are being employed.
So when your, or I, or anyone else makes statements like "most of what I see.." , etc, it's kind of meaningless to someone else. That, and our experiences with MFP aren't limited to this debate group. Perhaps other people can, but I certainly can't compartmentalize the experiences here enough to separate them from other groups or the general forums. Individuals? Sure, I can say that person is a jerk, or they're really cool, or anything in between, but even if I say that the Debate group hasn't made me uncomfortable, it doesn't really detract from any uncomfortable feelings I get from other areas of the site.
Besides it's not as if one can moderate "uncomfortable" in a forum admin kind of way.0 -
That is unfortunate. I'm not sure if you're referring to this discussion or others in this group, but most of what I see is a group of people trying to understand each other and our differences.During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".
Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/602133-am-i-gay
Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.
It's a little disturbing for me to read. I'm not surprised, exactly, but still disturbed. The people who casually joke about committing suicide if they were gay combined with the people claiming it's the best thread ever are a constant reminder of why equality needs to be championed.
I only read the first page... Sometimes I think people just need to lighten up. There was also a gay man who commented there and said something along the lines of "no, even us gay men don't like Justin Beiber." It's no different than starting a thread about being so fat you can't get on a rollercoaster or you are afraid of breaking a chair and then a fat person saying "hey, I'm offended even though you aren't directly talking to me."
Then again, I am not for censorship or being politically correct. I really get annoyed with people who act overly offended by everything. I know we've had the "using retard as a slang term" discussion in this group. I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled. It's nothing meant to be offensive, just an expression.
Might want to read more than the first page.0 -
I wish it was a choice, because my gay brother always told me that the best thing about homosexuality was that after sex he could have an intelligent conversation with his partner.0
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I wish it was a choice, because my gay brother always told me that the best thing about homosexuality was that after sex he could have an intelligent conversation with his partner.
See, I think the best thing is I can just take a nap and not have to talk.0
