http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/06/04/former-lesbian-says-change-possible

There isn't much to this video, basically the woman claims to be a born-again Christian and was "healed" from being a lesbian.

As a heterosexual, I can't "get inside the heads" of homosexuals. 99% of the time, homosexuals will say that they were "born this way," and "can't change." I accept that.

Here's my question: If someone says they have changed, how can I not also accept that? I can't really know how people feel in the hearts either way.

I didn't click on the link, but here's my two-pence worth anyhow.

I am a gay man. I cannot imagine not being homosexual and I do believe this was my fate. Now, whether or not that was biologically predetermined at birth, I think I can certainly say it wasn't nurture, i.e. I wasn't encouraged to be gay but neither was I discouraged from playing with the girls and their girlie toys but none of my male childhood friends are gay, as far as I'm aware nor are any of my siblings and cousins.

I no more chose to be gay than a heterosexual chose to be straight.

I was also raised in a pretty secular environment. My parents who used to go to church, certainly didn't go regularly after I was born. My paternal grandmother, on the other hand, was a very pious woman and she would take me to church and I have attended Sunday School classes whilst in her care. Even at an early age (7-8yrs old) I understood the hypocrisy of praising the evil little sod who bullied other kids and terrorised neighbourhood pets, simply because he could walk upright with the bible on his head. From those earliest encounters with so-called Christianity, my opinion about organised religion took shape and have not changed dramatically over the years, although I do have many friends who are 100% committed to their faith and in some ways I envy their unquestionable dedication to it.

While for me personally, the idea that my faith and/or belief system could radically alter who I am and somehow make me into a different person is quite an alien concept. However, that doesn't alter the fact that I have changed; I am not the same person I was 20-30 years ago and most recently I've changed from being a slovenly glutton to someone who exercises and has learnt the concept of moderation.

So, getting back to Rock's original question and the matter in hand: it may be that the lady in question had always questioned her sexuality - we'll never know that and she's not about to tell; what is certainly clear is that she has adopted a new faith which has become the backbone to her entire belief-system and as such she has chosen to forego her previous lesbian inclinations and now feels more comfortable within a heterosexual relationship. Certainly her belief in Christ has affected that change and she has every right to believe that her new-found faith can "heal" others too.

Likewise, there are folks who do find a new path in life, be that through religion or exercise and fitness, and in committing themselves to that new regime, it may challenge their perceived wisdom and they may embark on new relationships. Just as there are lots of MFPeeps who are pretty evangelical about their new lifestyle changes and who preach the gospel accordingly, denouncing anyone who dares come up with a suggestion that runs counter to their diet and fitness regime.

Ultimately, I do find it sad that in this day and age, a person's sexuality is still demonised by certain religious organisations and is still perceived as some kind of ailment which can be cured, but I'll also defend their right to hold those beliefs as long as in doing so, nobody is hurt or persecuted or excluded from enjoying the life they wish to lead.

But my point is, if there were someone that said that they could "change" to being homosexual, how do I know that they're wrong, other than my personal belief?

Believe her then. The problem with this, though, is she's claiming that others can do the same thing.

Edit: scratch that, I don't want to get off topic here.

Claiming that others can do the same thing is simply the next logical step from what she already believes is true.

What I may or may not personally believe isn't the issue, the question is do I have anything to go on other than my belief.

You know what, you're right. Maybe she really did change. Maybe anyone could change. The problem lies when someone changing because they want to change becomes looked at as a "cure" for homosexuality. People like that take it to the next step that gays shouldn't have the right to get married because they can change if they want to. Even if they could (and I don't think most gays could change any easier than most heterosexuals could suddenly decide to become gay) - why should they have to?

I've been married for 19 years. I'm sure if I wanted to I could go out and find someone else and fall in love with them. But why should I have to give up my relationship and start a new one just to have some rights just because someone finds our relationship "icky"? That's the ultimate goal of people like that woman. She wants to "cure" homosexuality. They want to justify their bigotry and discrimination by saing "See? You don't haveto be that way. If you want rights then change and be like us."

I believe there are a number of factors--from genetics to upbringing--that can influence one's sexual orientation. I also think that gay people for the most part are really, really gay--they are not just play acting.

There are also people who go through temporary periods of same-sex attraction -- again, for a variety of reasons. I had a couple of (extremely) minor roles at a professional theater for several months after I graduated from high school. Many of the younger male actors adopted some "gay" mannerisms as a way to advance their careers with some of the older actors and directors. My daughter went to an all-girl college in Massachusetts. They had a special term for those who adopted a different lifestyle as a social convenience--LUGS (Lesbians Until Graduation).

Since there can be different factors involved, it's not suprising that the same people who were confused about their sexuality at an earlier time are now going to claim that they "prayed away the gay". Sorry--same addiction, different drug IMO. I don't consider this woman or those like her to be "gay". The fact that you might have engaged in gay sex at one point or even lived with a same-sex partner does not make you gay. Being gay is not defined by sexual acts. It's who you are and for most people who are gay, there is no question.

As far as someone's "right to speak", I guess I have to say "yes", but with extreme reservations. For an individual to sit in their house and make a video to say "I prayed away the gay and you can too" is obviously OK.

For such positions to be supported by established organizations or political parties who can control and shape public policy--not OK. Trying to force a child to "cure their gay" is tanamount to child abuse. As a society, we wouldn't tolerated burning their arms with lighted cigarettes--why should we tolerate doing it to their psyches?

As for "proof"--this is really no longer a debateable question, except for those who persist on making it one. Almost all relevant professional organizations have denounced "raparative therapy" for over a decade.

Here is just one example:

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association formed the "Just the Facts Coalition." They developed and endorsed "Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation & Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel" in 1999.

The primer says, in part:

"The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.'

"...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through 'reparative therapy' and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm."

I don't think it's true. I'm a firm believer that people are born homosexual or heterosexual. It's not a decision you make. As a gay person, I can't imagine being straight. I have always been this way.. and I also have no interest in becoming heterosexual or being "cured".. ugh, cringe.

I think this is a temporary situation for this woman.

Temporary - well maybe for as long as she keeps profiting from it.

You can purchase her video and other merchandise at her website: http://www.janetboynesministries.com

You can also leave a donation to help Janet save all of us poor SSA people:

"The number of people reaching out for help has grown at an overwhelming rate, and we are in need of expanding our financial partnership base. We ask for your financial support to allow JBM to expand its outreach efforts to help more people go from bondage to sin, to freedom in Christ."

i think people are missing the point that she wanted to change. She obviously wasn't happy living the homosexual life so she looked for a way to change that.

Here is the hypocrisy, when someone who was straight comes out, it's celebrated. When a homosexual turns straight, it's met with suspicion and the thought that there must be something wrong with that person. Yet being straight is the natural biological order of things, it's what perpetuates the existence of the human race. Our bodies are designed to produce succeeding generations and not pair off with people who have the same bits and pieces. She just went back to what is natural.

Grill me all you want, but you cannot argue against nature. Of course I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to be gay if they so choose, that's their choice.

Why someone would think this makes religion looks bad is beyond me. Maybe it helped her become a happier person, that should be respected and celebrated. She is doing what the gay community tells us all-be who you are.

My brother is a homosexual and has been trying to get out of it, he's told us numerous times how unhappy he is. This is not to say all gays are unhappy, but this is a side of the story that is never told.

he is.

see:username.

There is no "homosexual lifestyle." There is a gay sub-culture, certainly, and it was developed out of a necessity of being othered. I just don't think think a difference in the gender of the people who somebody loves/is attracted to/marries/dates, etc, constitutes a different lifestyle.

According to some of my gay friends, there is a "homosexual lifestyle". It means having sexual relationships with members of the same sex, living in a relationship with someone of the same sex, going to gay bars or clubs, etc. They claim there certainly is a gay lifestyle. Many homosexuals choose not to "live the lifestyle", for whatever reason. Of course, this is just what I know from my gay friends and I realize homosexuals don't all speak for each other.

There is no "homosexual lifestyle." There is a gay sub-culture, certainly, and it was developed out of a necessity of being othered. I just don't think think a difference in the gender of the people who somebody loves/is attracted to/marries/dates, etc, constitutes a different lifestyle.

According to some of my gay friends, there is a "homosexual lifestyle". It means having sexual relationships with members of the same sex, living in a relationship with someone of the same sex, going to gay bars or clubs, etc. They claim there certainly is a gay lifestyle. Many homosexuals choose not to "live the lifestyle", for whatever reason. Of course, this is just what I know from my gay friends and I realize homosexuals don't all speak for each other.

I don't know that I'd want to go into specifics, but my point was that the lifestyle you describe is virtually identical to that of many 20 something heterosexuals. The only difference is that they don't date people of the same sex.

Gay People:
-wander through stores with a cart full of housewares (so to straight people)
-argue about paint color in the living room (so to straight couples)
-go out dancing (so do straight people)

The list goes on.

There's nothing intrinsic to a homosexual lifestyle binds it to gay culture apart from the people who live it. Generally people who believe there's a homosexual lifestyle (whether they are homosexual or heterosexual themselves) are really talking about stereotypes, but it is my contention is that those stereotypes do not a lifestyle make.

I'll admit it, I've been to a brunch with straight friends who were arguing over how sharp a garlic pesto brie was and I thought to myself, "Wow, that's super duper gay. I don't even like brie." But I don't think it means they're living a homosexual lifestyle. It's not as if I'm living a heterosexual lifestyle because I'm not a stereotypical gay man.

I understand what you're saying. I think what my friends mean is, they live like they're gay. Not like they're heterosexuals because of stigmas of society. So, they'll go to their own clubs, they will meet with groups of other gay people, they will not hide that they are gay. To them that means they're "living a gay lifestyle". I didn't mean it in a negative way.

I guess I would call that just not being closeted, and possibly also a little isolationist (probably out of a perceived need). It's an interesting turn of phrase, I think. It would never occur to me that "living a gay lifestyle" would translate into just being who you are. I think it's probably a shame that they feel the need to call their lifestyle something different just because they're not hiding it, and they feel threatened by stigma--or something more concrete, even.

I understand what you're saying. I think what my friends mean is, they live like they're gay. Not like they're heterosexuals because of stigmas of society. So, they'll go to their own clubs, they will meet with groups of other gay people, they will not hide that they are gay. To them that means they're "living a gay lifestyle". I didn't mean it in a negative way.

I guess I would call that just not being closeted, and possibly also a little isolationist (probably out of a perceived need). It's an interesting turn of phrase, I think. It would never occur to me that "living a gay lifestyle" would translate into just being who you are. I think it's probably a shame that they feel the need to call their lifestyle something different just because they're not hiding it, and they feel threatened by stigma--or something more concrete, even.

I'm an older woman. I'm 54, have a couple of grown kids and three grandchildren. I don't know very many gay/lesbian people, and of the few that I know I don't socialise with many. On Saturday one of my grandchildren will be turning two. Like any Nana, I had fun shopping for a gift, will get some baking done before the party, and I'm looking forward to spending time with our extended family of which there are many members of four generations.

We live peacefully in our community, work, live, love, enjoy our family who come for a meal and often to stay. We care for our young, care for our elderly, can be relied on to do our volunteer and charitable bit --- really, our life is not at all extraordinary.

My partner, who is also 'Nana' to the birthday boy, and I are hardly ever given cause to consider that there may be something 'unusual' about us. But when it does happen it is always a powerful blow. You see most of the time we are accepted for what we are: a couple like any other.

During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".

During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".

I've felt uncomfortable, too.

During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".

That is unfortunate. I'm not sure if you're referring to this discussion or others in this group, but most of what I see is a group of people trying to understand each other and our differences.

Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/602133-am-i-gay

Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.

It's a little disturbing for me to read. I'm not surprised, exactly, but still disturbed. The people who casually joke about committing suicide if they were gay combined with the people claiming it's the best thread ever are a constant reminder of why equality needs to be championed.

During the past few days on MFP I've felt very uncomfortable about how people like me are discussed in these forums. I've read posts by people - who I deem to be unqualified - discussing my mental health, my morals, my right to have 'the love of my life' with me as I progress into my old age. I can only console myself with "what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant prigs these people are".

That is unfortunate. I'm not sure if you're referring to this discussion or others in this group, but most of what I see is a group of people trying to understand each other and our differences.

Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/602133-am-i-gay

Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.

It's a little disturbing for me to read. I'm not surprised, exactly, but still disturbed. The people who casually joke about committing suicide if they were gay combined with the people claiming it's the best thread ever are a constant reminder of why equality needs to be championed.

I only read the first page... Sometimes I think people just need to lighten up. There was also a gay man who commented there and said something along the lines of "no, even us gay men don't like Justin Beiber." It's no different than starting a thread about being so fat you can't get on a rollercoaster or you are afraid of breaking a chair and then a fat person saying "hey, I'm offended even though you aren't directly talking to me."

Then again, I am not for censorship or being politically correct. I really get annoyed with people who act overly offended by everything. I know we've had the "using retard as a slang term" discussion in this group. I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled. It's nothing meant to be offensive, just an expression.

Uhh...unfortunately, I think those of us who are tuned into it more, see it more. It's not super recent, but for example:
Clearly no one is trying to understand any differences there.

I never saw that thread. That's why I said "most of what I see", and I was only referring to this thread and the debate group.

I'm aware of what you were saying. What *I* was saying was that there's more that goes than in this group (or what you or I see, for that matter). And even if we see the same things, we're probably sensitive to different rhetorical messages that are being employed.

So when your, or I, or anyone else makes statements like "most of what I see.." , etc, it's kind of meaningless to someone else. That, and our experiences with MFP aren't limited to this debate group. Perhaps other people can, but I certainly can't compartmentalize the experiences here enough to separate them from other groups or the general forums. Individuals? Sure, I can say that person is a jerk, or they're really cool, or anything in between, but even if I say that the Debate group hasn't made me uncomfortable, it doesn't really detract from any uncomfortable feelings I get from other areas of the site.

Besides it's not as if one can moderate "uncomfortable" in a forum admin kind of way.

I wish it was a choice, because my gay brother always told me that the best thing about homosexuality was that after sex he could have an intelligent conversation with his partner.