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I must be thinking of something else. I googled Smith machine and my gym has one of the varieties. The Olympic bar can be moved so I am not sure why it is wrong.
Hello everyone :bigsmile:0 -
Hi there, just started and will begin phase 1 2A tmrw.
My gym doesn't have an Olympic barbell, do I used the smith machine for my squats and dumb bells today for the deadlifts but found the deadlifts a little awkward.
Anyone have a suggestion for deadlifts apart from dumb bells.
The reason my gym doesn't have Olympic barbells, they don't want to encourage extreme body building, I was like Huh??
that stinks. Smith machines are bad news though for squats and deadlifts. Can you go to another gym? If not, check stronglifts.com for alternatives and squatting without a rack.
good luck.
Wait, What??! Those machines are bad for squats? Why? What are you supposed to use?
My gym doesn't have an olympic barbell either, and I live in a small town (but actually have a super nice gym!) so I have no where else to go : (
yes, unfortunately, they are no bueno. I started on a 3D Smith (which is only slightly less bad than a regular fixed Smith), but then I read on stronglifts that it was potentially dangerous. I quickly started searching MFP and the internet, and found over and over that is bad. So . . . the next workout I deloaded and went to the empty Olympic bar (45#). I've worked up to 100# pretty quickly, but I sure know why that Smith was inferior now.
Here's one link to why, but you can find lots more:
http://stronglifts.com/smith-machine-squats-power-rack-free-weights/
sometimes people don't like to use links, so here is an excerpt from a similar article: http://www.2buildmusclefast.com/2011/02/smith-machines-good-or-bad.html
1. When using the Smith machine you aren’t using your stabilizing muscles, which yes, make it safer–but you won’t get everything out of each particular exercise which will cut into you building muscle. There isn’t a need to balance the bar with the Smith Machine and that will lead to underdevelopment in your muscles or lack of development of stabilizing muscles.
2. Using the Smith Machine will make you more prone to injury since you are not working and strengthening your muscles responsible for stabilization. The Smith Machine will build muscle imbalances which will make you more likely to get injured when you’re doing any sort of physical activity.
3. It is a teacher of poor form for any exercise. There really is not many free weight exercises that use a 100% straight up and down movement, most have a slight arc or a slight bend so the straight up and down movement isn’t the correct form for the majority of exercises. Your body isn’t allowed to make any natural adjustments when performing an exercise and that can aggravate things. So you are probably thinking why is this so significant???
If the bar needs to move horizontally, for whatever reason, and the Smith Machine forces the bar to move only vertically and do not allow it to move horizontally, something must give. What will give is…
your joints, tendons and ligaments, that’s what!!!
Let’s say for example that when you bench press with a traditional barbell the bar moves slightly back then forward as it travels up. When you perform the same bench press in the Smith machine, the weight moves straight up the guide rods, so the joints must stretch to accommodate the forces placed on the bar. Over time, great stress is placed on the wrist, elbow and shoulder joints. At the very least, you’ll end up with nagging pain as I did in the shoulders. I can validate that once I stopped using the Smith Machine 3 to 4 weeks later all my shoulder pain vanished!!
Take squatting for example, an exercise that is commonly performed on the Smith machine. When most people squat on the Smith machine they plant their feet slightly in front of the torso, or directly in front of the bar, so the back is straight allowing free up and down movement….this is wrong! The proper form is feet positioned under you about shoulder width apart, with a slight arc in your back so then you can move up and down.
One final thing to consider is you will not be able to build muscle and strength as fast as you would with free weights when compared to the Smith Machine. It all leads back to your stabilizing muscles and utilizing these to help balance the weight and perform the exercise. In fact, a study in the "Journal of Strength Conditioning Research Dec 2009" compared the free-weight squat with the Smith machine squat in six healthy individuals. Researchers used electromyography to measure muscle activation and found the free weight squat activated muscles at an average rate of 43 percent more than those performed on the Smith machine!!!
With that said, if you’re looking to build muscle your best bet is to stay away from the Smith Machine. Undoubtedly, you will build muscle faster and become stronger faster. I personally don’t use the smith machine and don’t recommend it much. However, it can be helpful for those returning from an injury who would prefer to ease slowly into an old workout routine. Also, many people who work out alone like to use it since they don’t have a spotter. If it was me I would just be sure not to push myself to that point where I endanger myself without a spotter when using free weights.
I don’t see much use for the Smith Machine other than the two reasons just mentioned. I’m sure some of you may disagree and when it comes right down to it.... it’s a personal matter. I just prefer to focus all my energy on getting the best possible workout from each and every set and rep I perform. This allows me to get stronger and build muscle mass the fastest so for me I’ll just stick to the free weights.0 -
Here's the text of the first link:
10 Reasons Why Squatting In The Smith Machine Sucks
Sep 14th, 2009 by Mehdi |
Some gyms don't have Power Racks. Instead they have Smith Machines which look like Power Racks, but with a fixed bar. Some people will tell you the Smith Machine is safer than free weights since the bar can't fall on you.
Well this isn't true. You can get injured using the Smith Machine. And although you're using a bar, it's a machine. Meaning you'll get subpar results compared to free weights. Here are 10 reasons you shouldn't use the Smith Machine.
1. False Sense of Security. You'll tend to take more risks on the Smith Machine because the barbell is fixed. Putting on weights you might not be able to lift yet since you can stop it more easily anyway.
The Smith Machine isn't as safe as it looks. You can injure yourself if you don't watch what you're doing. Read this story & watch this video for examples of Smith Machine accidents.
2. Unnatural Movements. On a free weight Squat your body goes down in an arched path. Smith Machines force your body into fixed, unnatural movements patterns. This can cause injuries, especially with heavier weights.
New generation Smith Machines — like the Jones Smith Machine — try to solve the problem by allowing 3D movements, including front & backward movement. But they're still machines with drawbacks. Read on.
3, Knee Injuries. Knee pain from the Smith Machine is common. It forces your body into fixed movements patterns and places shearing loads on your knees. And it's hard to position yourself correctly under the bar.
Feet Position. Feet too much under the bar: more knee flexion and knee stress. Feet too much forward: more knee stress because they want to slide forward and your lower back gets in a weak position.
Hip Extension. You'll tend to lean against the fixed bar, causing less hip extension. Your hamstrings — knee stabilizers — will shut down. More shear force on your knees and thus more risks of ACL injuries.
4. Lower Back Injuries. The fixed bar tends to make you rest against it and the Smith Machine forces you into unnatural movements patterns.
Lower Back Stress. You're pushing your spinal erectors & neck muscles more against the bar. More back stress, especially with heavier weights.
Lower Back Rounding. Feet too far forward puts your lower back in a weak position and will tend to make your lower back round.
5. No Balance. The Smith Machine balances and stabilizes the weight for you since its bar is fixed. You won't strengthen your stabilizing muscles or improve balance & coordination. Things you need for daily activities & sports.
6. Less Strength. All exercises become easier and less stressful since the Smith Machine balances the weight for you. You won't get as strong. Expect to lift less weight when switching to free weights.
7. Less Muscle. If you aren't making gains: switching to free weights will often make you break that plateau. Free weights force you to balance the weight, making the exercise harder on your body. Bigger adaptive response.
8. Muscle Imbalances You only build strength in 1 plane since the bar is fixed. This causes muscle imbalances and increases the risks of injuries in the other undeveloped planes of movements.
9. Technique is Different. Common advice is to learn to Squat inside the Smith Machine before switching to free weights. The thinking behind this is that the Smith Machine is safer and helps with balance.
But it's a waste of time. Technique is different using free weights since you have to balance the weight yourself. You'll have to lower the weight when switching and relearn technique from scratch.
10. Less Potential. You can minimize some of the above problems. But even if you do, the Smith Machine remains less effective for strength and muscle gains. Instead of trying to minimize problems: do the exercises with most potential.
How to Increase Safety on Free Weights. Weight lifting has the lowest rate of injury. You'll prevent injuries by learning & lifting with proper technique. Read all the exercise technique articles in the left sidebar. Extra tips:
Start Light. Control your ego. Start with light weights, focus on learning proper exercise technique and add weight slowly but gradually.
Have a Spotter. Especially on the Bench Press. Your spotter should be there to catch the weight if necessary, not to lift the weight for you.
Use The Power Rack. And set the safety pins so they can catch the weight. Read how to Squat if you don't have a Power Rack.
Good Uses for The Smith Machine. Again: don't Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift or Overhead Press using the Smith Machine. Here are some exercises you could do in all safety inside it:
Inverted Rows. Put the barbell somewhat lower than your belly height and use it for Inverted Rows.
Pull-ups. Use the Pull-up bar of the Smith Machine or set the bar high and do Pull-ups from there with your knees flexed.
Push-ups. Not strong enough yet for Push-ups? Put the barbell at belly height and do incline Push-ups. Lower the height as you get stronger.
For all other exercises: use the Power Rack so you can use free weights. If your gym has no Power Rack, consider building a home gym.0 -
I must be thinking of something else. I googled Smith machine and my gym has one of the varieties. The Olympic bar can be moved so I am not sure why it is wrong.
Hello everyone :bigsmile:
You can't use an Olympic bar inside a Smith machine. Olympic bars are 45# empty. Smith machine bars are either 25 or 35# depending on the version of the machine. They also have a hydraulic - type device thingy (technical!) that makes the lift easier. You don't balance the bar; it is balanced for you. You can lift the bar and place it on a higher peg with one hand!
See reasons above why Smiths are bad.0 -
Hi there, just started and will begin phase 1 2A tmrw.
My gym doesn't have an Olympic barbell, do I used the smith machine for my squats and dumb bells today for the deadlifts but found the deadlifts a little awkward.
Anyone have a suggestion for deadlifts apart from dumb bells.
The reason my gym doesn't have Olympic barbells, they don't want to encourage extreme body building, I was like Huh??
for squats I do a goblet squat with a dumbell. If you google it or look on youtube you will find pictures. Are there any other barbells at the gym? I haven't used the olympic barbell yet either. We have these smaller plastic barbells that I like to use. Kettle bells for dead lifts are another good option. Db's & kbs should keep you going for a while, but as you get to heavier weights though you may want to look for another gym.0 -
Smith machine = BAD BAD. Only thing I use it for is for angled push-ups! :bigsmile: I started at with the bar pretty high and have moved it down a little each time....I'm down to the 5th hole from the floor and it won't go down any further. I can do about 4 push-ups on my toesies...but then I have to finish the rest on the lowest smith setting.
My shoulders are nice and strong but my chest does NOT want to cooperate. 
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My son lifts weights every day for football practice. I asked him for help on my push ups. He said I could turn my hands outward to keep my elbows from flaring out. It has helped tremendously. My question : Does this affect or hinder my progress from a regular pushup?
I can't think of a reason that it would but then again if I ever attempted a push up it was on my knees0 -
I'd recommend doing the push-ups the way they are stipulated in NROL4W, manic. Hands (fingers) facing forward (not outward) - elbows tucked into your sides (not flaring out).
If push-ups from the floor are too tough (just now - and they *still* are for me, actually!), do them from a desk level bench, or a lower bench, that is stable enough to hold your weight.
You *will* improve and you *will* end up able to do them, 100% with the NROL4W form, from the floor!!
No knees. No more. No knees.0 -
Ug so depressing. We dont have an Olympic bar and only have a Smith machine : (0
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Hi everyone. So due to many issue ( illness, laziness, Canucks game) I took this week off from lifting, but I am going to continue on Monday. My plan was to pick up where I left off. What do you think? I am halfway thru stage 1. I know I should not have stopped but sometimes I just need some time away from the gym. On the up side I am painting my kitchen this weekend some that will keep my arms sore! :laugh:0
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Today's workout sucked. Seriously. I went to the gym and went straight to the rack to see if I could squat the olympic bar. I did two reps, and that was all I could do. I'm so mad. Stupid *** smith machine. So, I came home and loaded up my baby bar. My dh spotted me. I can squat 20 lbs. How deflating. :-( I guess I shouldn't feel so bad about it. When I started I was squating body weight and then 5 lb dumbells. And I wasn't going all the way down. Today I did 20 all the way. 3 sets of ten. Still, I "thought" I was doing better, so I'm still sort of bummed.
Also, I struggled with my push ups today. I just realized last week he wanted us to do them with elbows in. I couldn't do it for the life of me today. I couldn't even do ten of the regular. And I'm still on an incline. What the heck? I am curious as to his reason for elbows in? I understand it would strengthen my triceps more, but if I WANT or need to strengthen my chest more, what would be wrong with doing regular?
On the positive side, I upped my weight a little in my bent rows (I'm at home, so no cable machine) and my step ups.
Ive got sinus junk going on, so I didn't even attempt to balance for the prone jackknife. I did planks instead. Those seemed harder than usual, too.1 -
jbrown - I think it is perfectly fine to just continue on where you left off. You'll do great!
Jessica - feeling blue for this *one* day is going to be WAY better than getting too far into the program and discovering your bad form is resulting in stalled progress, or, even worse - INJURIES!! So, pat yourself on the back for throwing your "ego" aside and doing the RIGHT thing. Get your form down - I PROMISE the weights will go up, UP, UP - and there'll be no stopping you down the road!!
PS - I'm in Stage 4 and cannot do push-ups from the ground, yet. I swallow my pride and continue to do the BEST that I can do....my body is my body and this isn't a *sprint*, it's a *marathon* and I'm in it to win it (forever!)0 -
My personal trainer told me to alternate between doing push-ups with elbows by side and with elbows flared out. I chose NOT to listen to him, and to just follow NROL4W as written.
But, jessica, all sorts of mfp posters have made all sorts of little alterations to the NROL4W program (including myself)....if you feel more comfortable doing your push-ups with arms flared, then I say "go for it"....but, if it's more "challenging" to do them with your arms in, perhaps there is a lesson there that you are supposed to be working on those weaker muscle parts (rather than presuming that it's a chest exercise only...)0 -
Beeps-- I know you're right. I still feel grumbly... But I know you're right.
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My personal trainer told me to alternate between doing push-ups with elbows by side and with elbows flared out. I chose NOT to listen to him, and to just follow NROL4W as written.
But, jessica, all sorts of mfp posters have made all sorts of little alterations to the NROL4W program (including myself)....if you feel more comfortable doing your push-ups with arms flared, then I say "go for it"....but, if it's more "challenging" to do them with your arms in, perhaps there is a lesson there that you are supposed to be working on those weaker muscle parts (rather than presuming that it's a chest exercise only...)
As much as I want awesome triceps, I feel like I really need to spend more energy on my chest. I had surgery two years ago, where those muscles were severed. They have been horribly weak ever since.
Alternating though might be a good idea.0 -
Apparently I didn't read the book that closely when it came to the pushups...whoops! I did all of them with my arms out to the side, no by my chest. I do ones with arms by my chest in yoga 2-3 times a week, so I guess you could say I was alternating. Now I'm going to have to see if I can do the sets with my arms close in.
Jessica - I think alternating is not a bad option, especially if you need to build up your chest muscles.0 -
My gym doesn't seem to have one of those little slotted 5lb weights, and I wants one! Just thought I'd share
wow, too bad. try asking the manager to get some -- 10# is a pretty big jump, especially as you get higher!
maybe you could balance a powder-coated 5# dumbell (or even 3#, whatever) across the top of the weight bricks? or maybe use one of those 5# velcro band ankle weights? you could strap it on the top . . .
I will ask someone else, but if the answer's no, the vecro strap weigh is a brilliant idea!! Thanks0 -
And, crap, I've been doing the push-ups with my elbows out, too--and they're already hellishly hard for me, due to generally weak shoulders and a particularly weak/injured? left shoulder. Sigh. The devil's in the details...will have to try them with elbows in next time.0
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Sorry to have burst y'all bubble about the push-ups :flowerforyou:0
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Sorry to have burst y'all bubble about the push-ups :flowerforyou:
oh wow, I didn't even look at the photo for push-ups, just saw the name and did them. I am used to doing them for years now in both dance classes and martial arts classes, so I can do many on the floor (martial arts classes, they would make us do 2 sets of 33, and 1 set of 34, while counting in Chinese -- stupid).
anyway, I do them with elbows out, so hmmm need to go look at the book and see that photo.
Edit: I just looked at p. 191, that looks like what I do--her elbows are out. It's hard to see, but if you look at the 2nd photo you can see her right arm and the elbow is away from the body--not next to her ribs as he describes. interesting.0
