occupy.

dubist

Rape: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-occupy-baltimore-rape-20111019,0,3542147.story
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/female-protester-raped-at-occupy-philadelphia-camp-suspect-in-custody/


Stealing from local businesses: http://nation.foxnews.com/occupy-wall-street/2011/10/09/occupy-wallstreet-protesters-steal-local-businesses
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Occupy-Wall-Street-Protest-of-the-Protest-Businesses-Residents-City-Hall-133796083.html

OWS doesn't want to feed the homeless: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/irony-alert-ows-socialists-protest-fixing-food-for-freeloaders/

Division based on orientation and gender: http://occupywallst.org/article/everyone-has-right-occupy-space-safely/

thxs for posting this and the private message with the exact post in it .....
it is very unfortunate what happened to that women.

as for the other articles i find them skewed. socialists ows protesters? there might be some socialists there but they are definitely not the majority.

CaptainGordo

laugh, i thought this was a debate not a point and laugh

I this about my 1968 reference and the ":laugh:"? I would hope that you can take an emoticon for what it is, and not take it personally.

I make a valid, serious point about the riots in 1968, and the parallels with the current movement.

Bahet

There weren't arrests at Tea party rallies. That doesn't mean there weren't crimes or instigators or violence. The TP was backed by the wealthy who own the government and police. TPers could spit on Congress people and have nothing done to them. OWS students can't sit on the grass on their own campus without being beaten and pepper sprayed.

As for the election, I think you mean 1964. Or do you think the civil rights movement was just a bunch of blacks wanting a handout, causing violence, and sitting around?

Laughing at world-wide violence, destruction of civil rights, and brutality against people who are peacefully assembling is so sick I can't even comment on it. Do you point and laugh when Egyptian citizens are shot by police? Or is it only when American citizens are beaten that it's funny? Our troops can't treat captured terrorists the way some of the police have treated American citizens whose "crime" is sitting down. Saddam wasn't beaten and pepper sprayed. So why is it funny when students who haven't hurt anyone are?

macpatti

thxs for posting this and the private message with the exact post in it .....
it is very unfortunate what happened to that women.

Well, you asked for facts and you didn't respond here acknowledging that you saw it, so maybe she wanted to make sure you had the facts.

macpatti

Laughing at world-wide violence, destruction of civil rights, and brutality against people who are peacefully assembling is so sick

They are not all peacefully assembling.

So why is it funny when students who haven't hurt anyone are?

Not all of the occupiers are students. You're painting a picture of a bunch of young college students and professionals who have been laid off corporate jobs peacefully sitting in the lawn waving at people. That's not what's been going on.

CaptainGordo

There weren't arrests at Tea party rallies. That doesn't mean there weren't crimes or instigators or violence. The TP was backed by the wealthy who own the government and police. TPers could spit on Congress people and have nothing done to them. OWS students can't sit on the grass on their own campus without being beaten and pepper sprayed.

The press was all over the place at the tea party rallies. Please, please show me some documentation of crimes and instigators. And, please do not try to tell me that the press was supporting the rallies by suppressing information.

As for the election, I think you mean 1964. Or do you think the civil rights movement was just a bunch of blacks wanting a handout, causing violence, and sitting around?

Laughing at world-wide violence, destruction of civil rights, and brutality against people who are peacefully assembling is so sick I can't even comment on it. Do you point and laugh when Egyptian citizens are shot by police? Or is it only when American citizens are beaten that it's funny? Our troops can't treat captured terrorists the way some of the police have treated American citizens whose "crime" is sitting down. Saddam wasn't beaten and pepper sprayed. So why is it funny when students who haven't hurt anyone are?

Busting out the race card, when I made no reference to race. Nice!

Also, assuming that I am referring to 1964. Nice!

Also, assuming that you know how I feel about other events in the world. Nice!

I was referring to 1968 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention_protest_activity)

dubist

thxs for posting this and the private message with the exact post in it .....
it is very unfortunate what happened to that women.

Well, you asked for facts and you didn't respond here acknowledging that you saw it, so maybe she wanted to make sure you had the facts.

I did say thxs but there was no need to pm me.

Bahet

Laughing at world-wide violence, destruction of civil rights, and brutality against people who are peacefully assembling is so sick

They are not all peacefully assembling.

So why is it funny when students who haven't hurt anyone are?

Not all of the occupiers are students. You're painting a picture of a bunch of young college students and professionals who have been laid off corporate jobs peacefully sitting in the lawn waving at people. That's not what's been going on.

The vast majority of them are peacefully assembling. I'm not trying to paint them all as a bunch of young college students and professionals. I've said there are idiots and slackers among them. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that there are professionals and students and want to paint them all as hippie slackers who live with their parents.

Bahet

There weren't arrests at Tea party rallies. That doesn't mean there weren't crimes or instigators or violence. The TP was backed by the wealthy who own the government and police. TPers could spit on Congress people and have nothing done to them. OWS students can't sit on the grass on their own campus without being beaten and pepper sprayed.

The press was all over the place at the tea party rallies. Please, please show me some documentation of crimes and instigators. And, please do not try to tell me that the press was supporting the rallies by suppressing information.

As for the election, I think you mean 1964. Or do you think the civil rights movement was just a bunch of blacks wanting a handout, causing violence, and sitting around?

Laughing at world-wide violence, destruction of civil rights, and brutality against people who are peacefully assembling is so sick I can't even comment on it. Do you point and laugh when Egyptian citizens are shot by police? Or is it only when American citizens are beaten that it's funny? Our troops can't treat captured terrorists the way some of the police have treated American citizens whose "crime" is sitting down. Saddam wasn't beaten and pepper sprayed. So why is it funny when students who haven't hurt anyone are?

Busting out the race card, when I made no reference to race. Nice!

Also, assuming that I am referring to 1964. Nice!

Also, assuming that you know how I feel about other events in the world. Nice!

I was referring to 1968 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention_protest_activity)

You are either delusional, a staunch Fox "news" viewer, or living under a rock if you think the TPers were all peaceful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYRLeJw1aG8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnybv4rb9TA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pdwTQ4xA8

I was also quite aware of what year you were talking about. That was called "sarcasm" - Nice! I just see far more similarities to the civil rights movement. It's not "busting out the race card" either. It's pointing out another movement of people who were treated like criminals by the police and called violent instigators by the ignorant who chastized them and laughed at them for thinking that a sit-in could change things. If you can't see the similarities then, well, that's just sad.

dubist

CaptainGordo

You are either delusional, a staunch Fox "news" viewer, or living under a rock if you think the TPers were all peaceful

I'm not delusional. I can decipher between a handful of incidents from knuckleheads at tea party rallies from thousands of violent incidents among occupiers.

Please, provide me with a list of hateful acts from tea partiers that rivals this list of hate from the left: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/

I was also quite aware of what year you were talking about. That was called "sarcasm" - Nice! I just see far more similarities to the civil rights movement. It's not "busting out the race card" either. It's pointing out another movement of people who were treated like criminals by the police and called violent instigators by the ignorant who chastized them and laughed at them for thinking that a sit-in could change things. If you can't see the similarities then, well, that's just sad.

Accusing me of having a poor opinion of the civil rights movement and black people was not warranted, was an assumption, and is exactly what using the race card is. Comparing the arrests in the occupy movement to those from the civil rights era is absurd.

dubist

Bahet

Michelle Malkin? Seriously???? Hell her nastiness alone could rival that list. I pretty much stopped reading at "anti traditional marriage hate" as it just got too stupid. I skimmed the rest but didn't see anything that wasn't similar to things done by Republicans towards everyone else.

The "race card" isn't assuming someone has a negative opinion of blacks. It's a person using their own race as an excuse for bad behaviour. "I didn't get the job because I'm black." or "That cop only pulled me over for a DWB." are examples of pulling the race card. Comparing a movement of people who are attacked and assaulted by police for daring to go against the establishment in an effort to change things and make their voices heard to anoher similar movement is not a race card. If it makes you feel better though we can compare it to women's sufferage. Again, similar scenarios.

How is comparing the arrests absurd? In the1960s blacks were arrested for sitting at a white's only lunch counter (illegal) or at the front of the bus (also illegal) and were called violent criminals. They were laughed at, beaten, sprayed, and arrested. They were called ignorant, lazy, filthy, radical criminals who deserved what they got. They took to the streets in non violent and violent protests, disrupting shoppers and businesses in the process. They demanded that business and government start treating them with the same respect they did white people. The majority tried to be non violent even when the police were instigating violence. Fringe groups like the Black Panthers advocated for violence and rioted. They all had the same general cause but the movement was too large even for someone like MLK (who wasn't really heard of until considerably later in the CR movement) to be able to keep under control.

Bahet

Here's a video of an unemployed protester who lives with his mother.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/11/injured-occupy-oakland-veteran-scott-olsen-describes-frustrating-recovery/

poisongirl6485

Please remember to keep discussions in the group and avoid private messages to members that you are debating with.

CaptainGordo

Michelle Malkin? Seriously????
...
I skimmed the rest but didn't see anything that wasn't similar to things done by Republicans towards everyone else.

Can you refute the cases cited though? Can you cite enough "things done by Republicans towards everyone else" that even compares to the list I provided? Have you found cases of tea party crimes that rival those of the occupiers?

CaptainGordo

How is comparing the arrests absurd? In the1960s blacks were arrested for sitting at a white's only lunch counter (illegal) or at the front of the bus (also illegal) and were called violent criminals. They were laughed at, beaten, sprayed, and arrested. They were called ignorant, lazy, filthy, radical criminals who deserved what they got. They took to the streets in non violent and violent protests, disrupting shoppers and businesses in the process. They demanded that business and government start treating them with the same respect they did white people. The majority tried to be non violent even when the police were instigating violence. Fringe groups like the Black Panthers advocated for violence and rioted. They all had the same general cause but the movement was too large even for someone like MLK (who wasn't really heard of until considerably later in the CR movement) to be able to keep under control.

You're comparing cases of folks being beaten because of their race to people breaking the law.

Do you condone the use of violence in the civil rights movement, like the Black Panthers?

CaptainGordo

The latest rap sheet from the Occupy movement -- up to 360 incidents: http://biggovernment.com/jjmnolte/2011/10/28/occupywallstreet-the-rap-sheet-so-far/

Also, on October 18, pollster Doug Schoen (a Democrat!) discovered that a full 31% of Occupiers were willing to commit violence in pursuit of their agenda, whatever that is. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html)

Bahet

Michelle Malkin? Seriously????
...
I skimmed the rest but didn't see anything that wasn't similar to things done by Republicans towards everyone else.

Can you refute the cases cited though? Can you cite enough "things done by Republicans towards everyone else" that even compares to the list I provided? Have you found cases of tea party crimes that rival those of the occupiers?

If we're going to go into everything on that list you better believe I can cite enough to more than rival it. Let's start with civil rights for blacks, women, non Christians (especially Muslims), gays, and the poor. Oh, I think I just went over the allotted amount. Now how about you showing examples of police brutality against the TEA party? Don't say there wasn't any because they were peaceful. The students at Berkley and Davis were peaceful too. Or are you one of those who things sitting on the ground or holding hands is "violent"? If so, the TEAs did that too so I'm sure you can find plenty of acts of police brutality.

Did you not look at the videos I posted? Or are you saying that because someone who claimed to be part of OWS was a rapist that that means that OWS are rapists? If so, I guess we can group all Catholic priests into that list of things done by Conservatives against others.

You do know that OWS isn't a Democrat/liberal thing right? You seem to be trying to make this into a partisan thing. In reality, the TEA partiers and the OWS are very similar and should band together. Their goals are much the same.

You're comparing cases of folks being beaten because of their race to people breaking the law.

No. I'm comparing folks being beaten because they were protesting (and breaking the law) to folks being beaten for protesting (and not breaking the law unless there is some law against sitting on the ground or holding hands on your own college campus or trying to help a seriously injured person.)

Do you condone the use of violence in the civil rights movement, like the Black Panthers?

Absolutely NOT! I don't condone violence directed to or from any group of protesters. In America we are supposed to have the right to free speech and peaceable assembly. Unless the police start to recognize that right, sadly, I think things are going to get much, much worse. I see another Kent State in the not too distant future. Now I'm no psychic (psycho maybe :laugh: ) but I don't think it takes a psychic to see that violence begets violence and even the sweetest dog will eventually bite if you kick it enough. That doesn't mean I condone it. I hope it can be stopped before it gets worse. But if the police are going to continue fracturing skulls of war vets, throwing flash grenades at the heads of people trying to help the injured, pepper spraying old ladies and students, and beating up 70yo poet laureates who aren't breaking the law it's not going to be long before those things are reacted to violently. Someday the police are going to start fracturing ribs of people for the "crime" of standing on the grass and someone is going to start shooting. It's going to look even more like Egypt around here (I suppose you are against the Egyptian people too huh?)

TheRoadDog

RoadDog, you sound like you watch too much Fox "news". The police are far more violent toward the protesters than they are in return. Yes, there are some bad people out there. Yes, there are some doing disgusting things. I have a neighbor who doesn't clean up after his dog. Does that make my entire neighborhood full of disgusting people? Of course not! But portraying a worldwide movement of millions as molotov cocktail throwing degenerates because of the actions of a few (who were condemned by OWS) is just as ridiculous. Incidentally, did you feel the same way about the Teapartiers who brought guns to rallies and spit on Congress people?

I'm sure a few are looking for a handout. Most just want the same sort of representation from our elected officials as they give to the people/corporations who can buy votes. They want to know that if they have to share in bad economic times then they should share in good ones too. They are worried that if the middle class disappears that they will go down with it. They are sick of being the best government money can buy. They want the businesses who took down the government to pay for it instead of being given their tax money then turning around and giving a $15million bonus to a CEO who lost millions more for the company. Really, if you are sick of those who want a handout then you should be supporting OWS. They are sick of the government gving handouts to corporations that are paid for by you and me.

If there were jobs out there 1 in 10 people who aren't retired/students/at home parents wouldn't be out of work right now. There are a few jobs. There will always be turnovers and such that will open up a job. But when a job for a pizza delivery guy is getting 350 applications from everyone from high school students to engineers it makes it a bit difficult.

I don't watch Fox News. To be honest, I watch the local news each evening, only for the weather, so I know whether I can ride to work the next day on my Motorcycle or not.

No, I get my impression of the "Occupiers" from watching them. Occupy Portland happens to be within walking distance of my workplace and located on the route I walk each day at work. I am not generalizing the unemployed. I know it's hard out there.

When I lost my corporate job in the 80's, I went directly to a Temp Agency the next day. I got a job that paid $5 an hour. Roughly 20% of what I was making at the time. I got a second job in the evenings. Didn't pay as well as the first one. I didn't blame anyone for the mess I was in. I just kept my head down and went to my sh*tty job. Within 9 months, I got hired permanently and got a 50 cent an hour raise. Yippee!! $5.50 ain't much, but it's more than people get paid to vandalize ATM's and occupy the nearest city park.

I am doing real well right now, but if I lost my job I would take any job I could to contribute at home. That includes a Temp Job at minimum wage. It wouldn't be the optimum alternative, but I know, from experience, that there are jobs out there.

I really have a lot more to say, but it's wasted here. Everyone is pro or con. There is a lot of gray out there, but just like the so-called 99% and 1% everyone has chosen a side and aren't looking to affect real change, just to get their rhetoric on the 5 O'clock news.

If they're all so freakin' bright, how did this happen?

Bahet

14 million people - 1 in 10 - are unemployed. If there are even half that number of jobs available out there the "Help wanted" sections of newspapers, Monster.com, storefronts, etc would all be over flowing with advertising for workers.

For kicks I went onto monster.com. I put in CPA and searched in Richmond, VA (I live near there) and got 1 hit. I switched it to Los Angeles and got 29 hits. I then switched it to office assistant and got 172 hits in LA (many bilingual though and quite a few work from home scams/exact same ad for 1 town over.) I didn't go through them all but probably half were work from home/multiple ad junk. When I plugged it into Richmond I got 19 hits with 2 multiples and 2 scams. No wonder I got so many responses to my ad last year. There are no where near enough jobs out there for people who actually want to work.

TheRoadDog

14 million people - 1 in 10 - are unemployed. If there are even half that number of jobs available out there the "Help wanted" sections of newspapers, Monster.com, storefronts, etc would all be over flowing with advertising for workers.

For kicks I went onto monster.com. I put in CPA and searched in Richmond, VA (I live near there) and got 1 hit. I switched it to Los Angeles and got 29 hits. I then switched it to office assistant and got 172 hits in LA (many bilingual though and quite a few work from home scams/exact same ad for 1 town over.) I didn't go through them all but probably half were work from home/multiple ad junk. When I plugged it into Richmond I got 19 hits with 2 multiples and 2 scams. No wonder I got so many responses to my ad last year. There are no where near enough jobs out there for people who actually want to work.

I guess I'm wrong, then. You look like you've done extensive research.

I apologize; it's just that my viewpoint is skewed. If I lose my job, i won't even try next time. I'll just grab some poster board, a magic marker and head down to the park and affect change like the rest of the "true patriots".

Lizzy_Sunflower

where the tea party had a list of defined goals, the occupy movement is made up of form a wide range of backgrounds and beliefs, many capitalists included. these unhappy citizens that have lost jobs, money or medical care due to the broken government lobbyist system that is in place. only the very rich are really represented in the congress and white house of either party. The occupy movement are without a defined list of goals and i am sure they do not all agree on the issues but they have one thing in common they see a broken system thats needs fixing. not that the news would ever present the case as such.
the occupy movement is not just the protestors at wall street. i agree that some of the decisions and things that have happened could and should have been dealt with in different ways both on the side of ows and the police and mayor,

the movement is now MORE then what started and is continuing at the encampments, its in your state capital and city hall at the grass roots level doing some pretty amazing things i.e. occupy homes, occupy libraries, occupy schools. google it. starting from the ground up is a way to change a nation. protesting in the street is just to spread your message.

the occupy movement is now a well spring of grass roots efforts you will see coming to fruit at the next election.

I disagree that this movement is "grassroots"
Who is funding full color newspapers, kitchens, and media centers for OWS? Certainly Not the unemployed citizens you speak of.




I don't believe that labor unions are "just starting" to get involved. I believe they have been involved all along. And are using the gathering to an end of their own means. "Workers of the world unite" is not just a slogan.

http://biggovernment.com/aim/2011/11/15/aim-video-union-pays-occupy-protesters/

http://www.breitbart.tv/dc-organizer-admits-to-paying-occupy-dc-protesters/

You are only fooling yourself if you believe there are only a few of the OWS that are fighting against capitalism as the model for America.




List of OWS supporters:

http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/10/31/the-99-official-list-of-ows/

“Show me your friends and I’ll tell you who you are.”

Lizzy_Sunflower

14 million people - 1 in 10 - are unemployed. If there are even half that number of jobs available out there the "Help wanted" sections of newspapers, Monster.com, storefronts, etc would all be over flowing with advertising for workers.

For kicks I went onto monster.com. I put in CPA and searched in Richmond, VA (I live near there) and got 1 hit. I switched it to Los Angeles and got 29 hits. I then switched it to office assistant and got 172 hits in LA (many bilingual though and quite a few work from home scams/exact same ad for 1 town over.) I didn't go through them all but probably half were work from home/multiple ad junk. When I plugged it into Richmond I got 19 hits with 2 multiples and 2 scams. No wonder I got so many responses to my ad last year. There are no where near enough jobs out there for people who actually want to work.

I was unemployed for over a year.

I took a job below my station, making less than I had at my previous job, with no benefits. Just so I could work and earn income.

No one Forced these students to go into debt, taking out loans from evil banks to finance their "Sociology" or "Liberal Arts" degree.

There are jobs out there for people to get. You may not get the job you wanted, but you can't give up.

macpatti

“Show me your friends and I’ll tell you who you are.”

:flowerforyou:

FearAnLoathing

14 million people - 1 in 10 - are unemployed. If there are even half that number of jobs available out there the "Help wanted" sections of newspapers, Monster.com, storefronts, etc would all be over flowing with advertising for workers.

For kicks I went onto monster.com. I put in CPA and searched in Richmond, VA (I live near there) and got 1 hit. I switched it to Los Angeles and got 29 hits. I then switched it to office assistant and got 172 hits in LA (many bilingual though and quite a few work from home scams/exact same ad for 1 town over.) I didn't go through them all but probably half were work from home/multiple ad junk. When I plugged it into Richmond I got 19 hits with 2 multiples and 2 scams. No wonder I got so many responses to my ad last year. There are no where near enough jobs out there for people who actually want to work.

I guess I'm wrong, then. You look like you've done extensive research.

I apologize; it's just that my viewpoint is skewed. If I lose my job, i won't even try next time. I'll just grab some poster board, a magic marker and head down to the park and affect change like the rest of the "true patriots".

:laugh: Dont forgett your bongo drums and this

Lizzy_Sunflower

14 million people - 1 in 10 - are unemployed. If there are even half that number of jobs available out there the "Help wanted" sections of newspapers, Monster.com, storefronts, etc would all be over flowing with advertising for workers.

For kicks I went onto monster.com. I put in CPA and searched in Richmond, VA (I live near there) and got 1 hit. I switched it to Los Angeles and got 29 hits. I then switched it to office assistant and got 172 hits in LA (many bilingual though and quite a few work from home scams/exact same ad for 1 town over.) I didn't go through them all but probably half were work from home/multiple ad junk. When I plugged it into Richmond I got 19 hits with 2 multiples and 2 scams. No wonder I got so many responses to my ad last year. There are no where near enough jobs out there for people who actually want to work.

I guess I'm wrong, then. You look like you've done extensive research.

I apologize; it's just that my viewpoint is skewed. If I lose my job, i won't even try next time. I'll just grab some poster board, a magic marker and head down to the park and affect change like the rest of the "true patriots".

:laugh: Dont forgett your bongo drums and this

** All profits made from buying said mask goes to "Evil Corporation" Warner Bros. Pictures.

The Exective retirement funds thank you.

FearAnLoathing

Heres an idea for those that occupy various places around the country,how about you put down your signs,take a shower and do something to really change the world.Because this is doing NOTHING

Bahet

Is there a head bang smilie here? There needs to be.

It took you a YEAR to find a job that enabled you to be underemployed and you think things are somehow magically different now? Why? And why do so many of you keep saying the OWS people are unemployed? Many o them are employed. Those who aren't are most likely looking for work/students/retirees/homemakers. I'm not sure where you people live that being completely destitute is such a great way of life that everyone chooses it but around here people actually prefer to have food, clothing, and shelter.

Lizzy, read my previous post. If there are jobs out there and 14 million unemployed Americans then why aren't there 14 million "Help Wanted" signs? Why aren't there even half that number of "Help Wanted signs"? Were you just a lazy bum for a year? Or were you looking for work and unable to find something?

Also, "Grassroots" doesn't mean "without funding". Hell, the TEA partiers are funded by the Koch brothers claimed to be grass roots. Grassroots simply means it's by ordinary people not corporate interests, lobbyists, politicians, etc. I find it amusing that you call them jobless citizens in one breath and then insinuate that they aren't grassroots in another.

Your list of supporters is not only just silly but blatantly false in many instances as well. Really, if you have t go to an extremely biased site for "facts" you're not really getting facts. The Ayatollah??? Seriously??? So some guy says he hates America and is glad the people are finally trying to change things means they support OWS? You do understand that he hates OWS too right? He hates anything and everything that has anything to do with America. He'd be in favor of any social or political unrest whether it was OWS or locusts that were causing us problems. Do you think that means he's pro-locust too? Actually, he made similar comments after Katrina. I guess he's pro-hurricane. As for the Nazi party, et al, I guess the TEA party really does have a lot in common with OWS because they, and most of the hate groups on that list, supported them too.

macpatti

Heres an idea for those that occupy various places around the country,how about you put down your signs,take a shower and do something to really change the world.Because this is doing NOTHING

Did you hear about the man shooting at the Occupy Houston squat festival?