Atheists Go to church for their kids
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I got coal, :laugh:0
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He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He know if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake.
Good kids are rewarded with presents. Bad kids are punished with coal. The comparison makes a lot of sense to me.
Do you know any kid who really got coal?
Nope. Just like IMO I don't know anyone who's gone to hell. It's just a threat to get people to "be good".0 -
That's an interesting point actually. I wonder how many people would still believe in the concept of a God if they had absolutely no knowledge of religion, god, Christ, etc until like age 30.
I think this question could go several ways.
In today's sense, probably not well. Only because I wonder the type of person raising a child that does NOT want them exposed to any type of religion. To me, I would think they are not very open minded and thus their children would presumably be raised in the same sense.
However, had society never been introduced to religion... well I wonder the type of society that is. What type of people would we have had to be to either a) Known everything without a little (or a lot) of research. or b) Not cared, or been intrigued enough to come up with reasons why certain phenomena occurred.
If a) were true,we'd all be super genius with no time for such a trivial debate
if b) were true, we'd never have gotten around to making computers because we would have been perfectly fine with living our neanderthal ways... or our species would have died off by now, and there'd be a new species dominating.
Well I wasn't saying that the experiment would include parents that didn't allow kids to be exposed to religion. And I don't necessarily think that people needed religion to try and research where things all came from. Humans are naturally curious beings, and I believe they would have questioned and wanted to learn regardless of the concept of a god-being.
That doesn't really make sense then. Religion WAS created out of our curiosity(And I'm saying the original stems of religion, not Christianity). Of course we were naturally curious, how else would we have been able to survive for so long. But as people began to develop more intellectually rather than instinctually they wanted to know they "whys" vs just the "hows" and I believe that's where religion comes in. Once religion was in place, we continued to develop further intellectually. More people were questioning for real answers not just "you made God cry, now he hates you and thats why it rains". Religion was a stepping stone to science (out of natural intellectual evolution). Again, this is why I gave my a or b options. I just don't see how we would have had the wonder for science if we didn't have something that preceded it
I don't really see how it would be plausible to create a world of children who do not learn of religion until they are in the their 30s. Unless we create some elite school, where you enter at birth and do not leave until mid-adulthood. Then we might get an answer..
It was just a hypothetical if an adult would believe the concept of God. Kind of like how kids will believe anything you tell them, would an adult as easily accept God if they didn't learn about the concept until adulthood. I know it's not 'plausible' to actually conduct this experiment, just more like something to ponder.0 -
Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?0 -
And now I know someone who got coal.
CASPER what did you do you little monster?? It'd better be something good!0 -
Nobody I know of (and I know a lot of atheists) believes that religion in general is an inherently evil thing. But they are aware of horribly evil deeds done by horribly evil people in the name of religion. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Romans feeding Christians to the lions.Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
So you're all for the kiddies exploring options, as long as they wind up with the right answer. Interesting.I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
I didn't choose to be agnostic, I just am. My family & church tried to teach me a bunch of stuff that made no sense to me. I could not believe it, though I tried.0 -
Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
I know you didn't ask me (and I might not be the best person to ask because i'm not 100% against the concept of a god), but if my kids want to be believers, more power to them. I fully believe in letting everyone decide for themselves what they believe to be true and what resonates with them. I would support them if they wanted to believe in God, which is the opposite of you not supporting your kids if they were atheist.0 -
Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
I don't necessarily make that jump in logic. When someone's children convert to another religion, or non-belief, I don't think those parents are in any way "less faithful" to what they believe. Parents know that a lot of times your kids will do things that can even break your heart, but you have to let them live their own lives and make their own decisions.. and mistakes. You can't live your kid's lives for them (royal "you").
Rabid atheist that I am if my daughter decided to become a nun I would support her. I'd REALLY press her to make sure she'd thought through her choices and was doing what she thought was best, but if that's what she chooses I'm behind her. I'm raising her in the hopes that she'll be smarter than me, better than me. I can't do that if I'm always judging her choices based on what I think. Good news is she's pretty much smarter than me now so...0 -
I am an atheist parent who allows her kids to go to church, sometimes they do, most times they don't. My youngest son doesn't know anything about god or religion and I have actually considered taking him to a Unitarian universalist church so he can start to explore and understand religion in an open environment where they don't ever teach intolerance. Also, I not only want him to be able to freely explore religion without fear, as I was unable to do, I want him to have some of those fun experiences I had as a kid in a church.
Teaching my children about religion doesn't mean I am pushing them towards belief or that I think my life is lacking something. My own experiences as a Christian and actually reading the Bible are some of the main reasons that I am an atheist today. I think that having a wide range of experiences and knowledge makes people make better, more informed decisions that will ultimately give them more of a sense of peace and happiness. (whatever path they choose) What more could anyone ask for their kids?0 -
Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
I know you didn't ask me (and I might not be the best person to ask because i'm not 100% against the concept of a god), but if my kids want to be believers, more power to them. I fully believe in letting everyone decide for themselves what they believe to be true and what resonates with them. I would support them if they wanted to believe in God, which is the opposite of you not supporting your kids if they were atheist.
You talk to your kids about atheism? I'm sure it's very balanced. The point is, I think everyone needs to come to their own conclusions. If I never expose or teach my kids about religious or do not support their decisions, then i am no better than the religious zealot. And, Patti, why would you not support your child being an atheist. Is there something wrong with it?0 -
To a true believer Atheism = Eternal punishment,,, and nobody wants that for anyone else, especially their kids. Missionaries ain't out there for the food ya'know.0
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Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
I know you didn't ask me (and I might not be the best person to ask because i'm not 100% against the concept of a god), but if my kids want to be believers, more power to them. I fully believe in letting everyone decide for themselves what they believe to be true and what resonates with them. I would support them if they wanted to believe in God, which is the opposite of you not supporting your kids if they were atheist.
You talk to your kids about atheism? I'm sure it's very balanced. The point is, I think everyone needs to come to their own conclusions. If I never expose or teach my kids about religious or do not support their decisions, then i am no better than the religious zealot. And, Patti, why would you not support your child being an atheist. Is there something wrong with it?
I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me....I am in agreement with you.
I don't talk to my kids about ANY religion because they're a bit too young still for that.0 -
Re-post to page 2Don't forget that there are some churches that are less doctrinaire than others. I'd be interested to see a breakdown of just what churches these brainiacs are sending their kids to. I'll bet very few are going to fundamentalist churches.
I'm agnostic, and I'm a very active member in my Unitarian Universalist church. We have no creed, no dogma - we spend a great deal of time talking about morals and ethics and we study and take wisdom from many religions. Many of the congregation are Atheist or Agnostic. And many many of the congregation are scientists, educators, academics. I can name 10 engineers off the top of my head.
"Church" and "Religion" are big broad terms. Not everybody who goes to church thinks dancing is evil.0 -
Nobody I know of (and I know a lot of atheists) believes that religion in general is an inherently evil thing. But they are aware of horribly evil deeds done by horribly evil people in the name of religion. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Romans feeding Christians to the lions.I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
Don't pretend if gladiators were still around you wouldn't want to go watch.... Different time = different way of viewing things. Science has done equal amounts of harm as science. Just more recently and more deceptively than Christianity ever did.
And @macpatti I also find it intriguing that you would not support your children's desire to be atheist. However, I suppose I shouldn't judge .If I ever had a child who came up to me and said "science isn't real" I'd be incredibly disappointed (in both myself and the child )0 -
I find this sentence hilarious.In addition, church may provide a better understanding of morality and ethics
So they can't provide that at home?0 -
You talk to your kids about atheism? I'm sure it's very balanced. The point is, I think everyone needs to come to their own conclusions. If I never expose or teach my kids about religious or do not support their decisions, then i am no better than the religious zealot. And, Patti, why would you not support your child being an atheist. Is there something wrong with it?
I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me....I am in agreement with you.
I don't talk to my kids about ANY religion because they're a bit too young still for that.
He's talking to Patti.
Casper brings up the important difference. If my daughter decides to become religious the worst I'll think she's doing is wasting her precious time and supporting institutions I disgaree with. Not great but a parent can live with that.
Patti believes that if her children reject God and Jesus they'll burn for all eternity. So the stakes would be a bit bigger in her case.
This is just where we differ. And neither of us (or most of the rest of us) will be changing anytime soon I dare say.0 -
And, Patti, why would you not support your child being an atheist. Is there something wrong with it?
When I say I would not support my child being an atheist, that does not mean I would disown my child. Is there something wrong with atheism? To me, absolutely! You know this. As a Christian parent, I believe it is my job to raise my children to be children of God. My ultimate goal as a parent is to help guide my children to live a life pleasing to God. I want them to have eternal life with God, and I believe this life is merely preparing us for the next. You have no idea how heartbroken I'd be if one of my children died an atheist. It's all I know, Adrian.0 -
To a true believer Atheism = Eternal punishment,,, and nobody wants that for anyone else, especially their kids. Missionaries ain't out there for the food ya'know.
As a true believer, I don't want eternal punishment for anyone.0 -
Well if God exists, then he already knows who's going to die an atheist, yes?0
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Well if God exists, then he already knows who's going to die an atheist, yes?
Yes, of course. What is your point in this question (not being snarky, just couldn't find a better way to ask that)?
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Calvinism 101.Well if God exists, then he already knows who's going to die an atheist, yes?0 -
Well if God exists, then he already knows who's going to die an atheist, yes?
Not only knows, but created every circumstance and thought that made them an atheist in the first place. The fault lies with the manufacturer. That's why I believe the concept of the Christian God to be inherently wicked.
Que "free will" in 5, 4, 3...0 -
Well if God exists, then he already knows who's going to die an atheist, yes?Not only knows, but created every circumstance and thought that made them an atheist in the first place. The fault lies with the manufacturer. That's why I believe the concept of the Christian God to be inherently wicked.
Que "free will" in 5, 4, 3...
I will not bite.0 -
And, Patti, why would you not support your child being an atheist. Is there something wrong with it?
When I say I would not support my child being an atheist, that does not mean I would disown my child. Is there something wrong with atheism? To me, absolutely! You know this. As a Christian parent, I believe it is my job to raise my children to be children of God. My ultimate goal as a parent is to help guide my children to live a life pleasing to God. I want them to have eternal life with God, and I believe this life is merely preparing us for the next. You have no idea how heartbroken I'd be if one of my children died an atheist. It's all I know, Adrian.
And I would be crushed if my child came home a true believer thinking that the only reason to behave is to get magic carpet ride into the sky with ghost man.0 -
Brett~ What's your take on the article (I sent it to my friend, Trey, too). Would you agree that atheists who support their children becoming believers might suggest they don't really believe it to be evil?
I talk to my children about atheism, but I would never support their desire to become one. Make sense? Thoughts?
I don't think religion is evil. I don't even believe in evil, period.
My parents said the same thing to me about not supporting my desire to being an athiest. They did not support me, they would try to debate with me, and push and push until it led to the mother of all arguments (because at some point your adult children will support themselves and stick up for themselves) and we didn't talk for about 3 years. And they missed out on all the baby years of one of my children. We are close now, again, and they did think that if they played hardball with me, that I would cave. So IMO I would rethink that whole never supporting idea, because it could lead to things you were not expecting. JMO0 -
FYI - I really did try to be a true believer. Here's something from another post a couple of days ago.
SO - I was taught all this stuff and I never believed it, so I knew that I didn't have "Faith". I really tried to have faith, but I could not.
I'm not a person who can choose to believe something or to disbelieve something. You can tell me I have 12 fingers, you can point out that you are an orthopedic surgeon who says that I have 12 fingers, you can threaten that I will burn in hell for all eternity if I cannot accept that I have 12 fingers,,, but at the end of the day they're my fingers and I can count them and I know that I only have 10. If you put a gun to my head I'll lie and say that I have 12 fingers, but I can not (CAN NOT!) ever really believe it.
From my point of view my family and church tried to teach me something, and I didn't believe it, because it didn't make sense to me. Some others do believe it.0 -
And I would be crushed if my child came home a true believer thinking that the only reason to behave is to get magic carpet ride into the sky with ghost man.
I didn't ask you. You asked me, so I gave you my answer.0 -
And @macpatti I also find it intriguing that you would not support your children's desire to be atheist.
How is this intriguing?
Because "moderates" expect everyone to be ok with whatever choice anyone else makes. Because of tolerance and understanding and yada yada.
It's why I often get along better with Patti than agnostics or people who believe "everyone has their own personal truth and we shouldn't judge." Patti and I have both chosen a side. They may be opposite sides but at least we can relate to one another on that level.
p.s. To any moderates out there.. God is not a moderate. And if he's real he won't be impressed by your little "fingers crossed, hand behind the back" game.0 -
My parents said the same thing to me about not supporting my desire to being an athiest. They did not support me, they would try to debate with me, and push and push until it led to the mother of all arguments (because at some point your adult children will support themselves and stick up for themselves) and we didn't talk for about 3 years. And they missed out on all the baby years of one of my children. We are close now, again, and they did think that if they played hardball with me, that I would cave. So IMO I would rethink that whole never supporting idea, because it could lead to things you were not expecting. JMO
Not supporting my child doing something I view is wrong and disowning them are two different things. Once my children are out of the house, they are free to explore whatever belief/non belief they want, and I don't have to support it. I don't have to bring up religion every time I see them, either. If this happened, we would probably just avoid the topic and I'd pray for them. I would never try to run my children off or have them feel they aren't loved.0
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