Atheists Go to church for their kids
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In today's sense, probably not well. Only because I wonder the type of person raising a child that does NOT want them exposed to any type of religion. To me, I would think they are not very open minded and thus their children would presumably be raised in the same sense.
Not really.
I mean, yeah, sure, that scenario can play out. But I'm living proof that it's not true.
I wasn't exposed to religion until my early teens, and still didn't know anything about it 'til I was about 16-17.
When I was 12 years old, I had moved to a new town, and thus, put into a new school. The first day, a boy I'd never seen or spoken to before, who I had to sit next to, asked me "What religion are you?" I said "huh?" He says "You know...what kinda church you go to?" I said "I don't go to church." Boy behind him goes "So wait...are you even BAPTIZED?!" I said "no, I'm not." By then, over half the class decided to stare at me like an abomination. Boy #2 whistles and goes "Wow. You're gonna go to Hell!" Boy #1 looks at me kinda sad, and says "Yeah, he's right." And the rest of the year, they decided to make fun of me by calling me names and occasionally throwing things at me. Did this skew my perception of religion? You'd think it would. It instead made me just hate their little "clique" since I still wasn't sure what religion was, at that point. I figured they just hated me because I was a big-city kid, now living in an extremely small hick town, and they were talking about things like "baptism" and "religion" that were apparently things that little hillbilly kids liked. :laugh:
Fast forward a few years, and I started being friends with more "diverse" people. Mainly atheists. I still had to wonder why they hated religion, since, again, I had no real knowledge of it. To me, "God" was something adults said before "damn it," and Jesus was the guy who endorsed all the "Adopt-a-child for 10 cents a day" commercials. So I did some studying online. I studied them all. And I thought some were cool. I mostly thought they were ridiculous, and understood why my atheist friends scoffed at the notion of God and religion. I just knew they were nicer to me than the religious kids. I did have some religious friends, but they were nothing like the ones who made fun of me when I moved to this town, and they never talked about religion.
I decided to do a research paper on the Occult in the 11th grade. That's actually where I learned the most about religion.
Fast forward to January of this year (I'm 25, now). I took two college courses--Intro. to Religion, and World Religions. I didn't like Intro. to Religion, since the textbook was EXTREMELY boring (I'm not a fan of "technical" reads), and everyone made it quite clear on the first day of class that they were Christians, mostly Baptists, and that they thought the class was "Intro. to Christianity." I passed the class with an A, but I skipped a lot and when I did go, I tuned everyone out, except the professor. Same professor taught World Religions. I was more at home in that class. We started with Hinduism, then Buddhism, Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism, Shinto, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It was all fascinating. And it was all completely unbiased. The students were all so diverse, as well. In the entire class, we only had 2 people who spoke negatively of every religion except Christianity. By the time I entered this class, I was more knowledgeable about religion. And when I left, I was overwhelmed with knowledge, but in a good way.
So, long story short, I "grew up" without religion. My parents are both Catholic--my mom doesn't like the idea of organized religion, does not attend church, but she feels that in her heart, she is a Catholic; my dad doesn't go to church, and very strongly believes in his faith, but he keeps it to himself. Neither one of them ever forced their beliefs on us. We had no religious items in our household whatsoever. We didn't pray. We never went to church. We didn't watch religious programming. And we didn't talk about it. And if I may say so myself, I am one of the most open-minded people I've ever known. :happy: As is my younger brother.
I can't say for sure what I'd do with my own children, since I don't have any. If I did, I presume I wouldn't take them to church. The few times I've gone, I hated it. It was boring. The people weren't welcoming. I do, however, like to visit Buddhist temples. That's probably due to my personal preference...Buddhism is my favorite "religion." (I still don't understand how it's a religion, since Buddhists are atheist...guess I skipped the explanation of that in Intro. to Religion ).
I personally love studying religion. But I don't believe in any of them. I would feel very awkward if I were to take my children to a place that tells them what I believe to be nonsense as the truth. Children (people in general) can be wonderful, loving, caring, thoughtful, intelligent, open-minded individuals without religion. Of course, they can be the same WITH religion. It just seems strange to me that someone who truly doesn't "believe" would send their child to a church. There's ways to learn about religion other than going to a church. Places like churches are biased...what they learn will most likely be biased, as well.
Sorry for the long drawn-out post--just wanted to share my experience, since I noticed a few people were wondering what it's like to grow up without a direct religious influence. :flowerforyou:0 -
Here is the concept I have difficulty with.
Why would a diety give us the power to think and gain knowledge. Allow it to be combined with a massive planet where your belief structure will be decided on geography as well as racial, ethnic. etc background. Combine THAT with multiple books and scriptures which disagree on many key points. Allow those books to be altered over time by political influence and language barriers/translation interpretation errors....
And then say - but if you dont 'pick' the right path you are out of luck. Burn in hell!
:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
I have questions too, about Christianity in particular, like why would a God with rules for abstinence, against adultry and coveting knock up another man's betrothed with a child? And if that son was God, all powerful, able to heal and perform miracles, he could have stopped the Romans from crucifying him at anytime.
So letting himself die was like me standing on train tracks and not moving....suicide! They said that he was sacrificing himself for us. Well, wait, he only stayed dead for three days. I have had drinking binges that have lasted longer than that. And then he goes up to heaven?
Where was the sacrifice? It would have been a sacrifce if he stayed dead or went to hell. And why did he sacrifice himelf for us? How does this make sense. We were cursed because someone ate some fruit for all times, but he'll die to right that wrong? How does that work? Could he have paid my cable bill if he just stubbed his toe? And what are the option of not loving him or accepting his sacrifice? Eternal torture? Isn't telling someone to love them or they well endure eternal pain sort of like date rape?
They didn't just eat fruit, they ate fruit from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. How would Adam and Eve really know what Good and Evil were if they didn't have any knowledge of it to begin with. *scratches head*
Oh, sorry, I forgot to add that it was magic fruit. And good job letting satan into the garden to tempt them god. Hey wait, how could have satan been evil or fell from grace if God didn't invent it first? Did Satan create evil? If he did wouldn't that make him as powerful as god since he can create? This is confusing.0 -
You and I have very similar points of view. Meetings are at 11 on sunday, we drink a lot of coffee and discuss this stuff in great detail. It's very very good coffee.
I've explored Deism, it's one of the lights shining in through one of my windows.
Ahh but Casper you're robbing me of one of the great joys of atheism! No meetings.
Though if the coffee is that good my gf will be joining for sure. She loves the stuff. As well as non-specific beliefs in a higher power. These are a few of her favorite things...
The only lights shining through my windows are from burglars. Or cops chasing the burglars.
I don't live in the best part of town...0 -
Buddhism isn't a religion, it's a 'way of being'. I'm interested in it and learned a lot from it, but I am far too selfish to be a buddhist.I can't say for sure what I'd do with my own children, since I don't have any. If I did, I presume I wouldn't take them to church. The few times I've gone, I hated it. It was boring. The people weren't welcoming. I do, however, like to visit Buddhist temples. That's probably due to my personal preference...Buddhism is my favorite "religion." (I still don't understand how it's a religion, since Buddhists are atheist...guess I skipped the explanation of that in Intro. to Religion ).
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Ahh but Casper you're robbing me of one of the great joys of atheism! No meetings.
Atheists have meetings here in Houston. Trey is still trying to get me to go!0 -
Buddhism isn't a religion, it's a 'way of being'. I'm interested in it and learned a lot from it, but I am far too selfish to be a buddhist.I can't say for sure what I'd do with my own children, since I don't have any. If I did, I presume I wouldn't take them to church. The few times I've gone, I hated it. It was boring. The people weren't welcoming. I do, however, like to visit Buddhist temples. That's probably due to my personal preference...Buddhism is my favorite "religion." (I still don't understand how it's a religion, since Buddhists are atheist...guess I skipped the explanation of that in Intro. to Religion ).
That's what my boyfriend and I say, too!! But tell that to my Intro. to Religion professor, the textbooks we used for both Intro. to Religion and World Religions, and anyone else that says it's a religion. :laugh:0 -
Ahh but Casper you're robbing me of one of the great joys of atheism! No meetings.
Atheists have meetings here in Houston. Trey is still trying to get me to go!
Ah Patti I was just going for laughs, as I often do. I've even been to one myself, "Skeptically Drinking" they call it. They meet every third Friday at a local restaurant.
Honestly I think I'd have enjoyed church more. They weren't a great group.
Also as much as I like to argue against the "atheists are just mad at God" meme it would help our cause a lot if more of us had hair....0 -
That's what my boyfriend and I say, too!! But tell that to my Intro. to Religion professor, the textbooks we used for both Intro. to Religion and World Religions, and anyone else that says it's a religion. :laugh:
It's more a philosophy!0 -
Yeah, don't they have that show "The Atheist Experience"? I listened to it a couple times on the internet about a year ago. Interesting show.0
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Ah Patti I was just going for laughs, as I often do. I've even been to one myself, "Skeptically Drinking" they call it. They meet every third Friday at a local restaurant.
Also as much as I like to argue against the "atheists are just mad at God" meme it would help our cause a lot if more of us had hair....
Trey says they drink, eat, and shoot the sh$t. He's got good hair, though!0 -
I am an atheist,my teenage son is a christian. He made this choice and im ok with it. Hes happy and the church he attends is wonderfull. I have no problems with him beliving in god. I do not go to church with him.0
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Yeah and I thought we were special because we were given free will. But how did Satan revolt if he didnt have free will? Looks like free will was being handed out like coffee at an AA meeting.Here is the concept I have difficulty with.
Why would a diety give us the power to think and gain knowledge. Allow it to be combined with a massive planet where your belief structure will be decided on geography as well as racial, ethnic. etc background. Combine THAT with multiple books and scriptures which disagree on many key points. Allow those books to be altered over time by political influence and language barriers/translation interpretation errors....
And then say - but if you dont 'pick' the right path you are out of luck. Burn in hell!
:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
I have questions too, about Christianity in particular, like why would a God with rules for abstinence, against adultry and coveting knock up another man's betrothed with a child? And if that son was God, all powerful, able to heal and perform miracles, he could have stopped the Romans from crucifying him at anytime.
So letting himself die was like me standing on train tracks and not moving....suicide! They said that he was sacrificing himself for us. Well, wait, he only stayed dead for three days. I have had drinking binges that have lasted longer than that. And then he goes up to heaven?
Where was the sacrifice? It would have been a sacrifce if he stayed dead or went to hell. And why did he sacrifice himelf for us? How does this make sense. We were cursed because someone ate some fruit for all times, but he'll die to right that wrong? How does that work? Could he have paid my cable bill if he just stubbed his toe? And what are the option of not loving him or accepting his sacrifice? Eternal torture? Isn't telling someone to love them or they well endure eternal pain sort of like date rape?
They didn't just eat fruit, they ate fruit from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. How would Adam and Eve really know what Good and Evil were if they didn't have any knowledge of it to begin with. *scratches head*
Oh, sorry, I forgot to add that it was magic fruit. And good job letting satan into the garden to tempt them god. Hey wait, how could have satan been evil or fell from grace if God didn't invent it first? Did Satan create evil? If he did wouldn't that make him as powerful as god since he can create? This is confusing.0 -
Yeah and I thought we were special because we were given free will. But how did Satan revolt if he didnt have free will? Looks like free will was being handed out like coffee at an AA meeting.Here is the concept I have difficulty with.
Why would a diety give us the power to think and gain knowledge. Allow it to be combined with a massive planet where your belief structure will be decided on geography as well as racial, ethnic. etc background. Combine THAT with multiple books and scriptures which disagree on many key points. Allow those books to be altered over time by political influence and language barriers/translation interpretation errors....
And then say - but if you dont 'pick' the right path you are out of luck. Burn in hell!
:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
I have questions too, about Christianity in particular, like why would a God with rules for abstinence, against adultry and coveting knock up another man's betrothed with a child? And if that son was God, all powerful, able to heal and perform miracles, he could have stopped the Romans from crucifying him at anytime.
So letting himself die was like me standing on train tracks and not moving....suicide! They said that he was sacrificing himself for us. Well, wait, he only stayed dead for three days. I have had drinking binges that have lasted longer than that. And then he goes up to heaven?
Where was the sacrifice? It would have been a sacrifce if he stayed dead or went to hell. And why did he sacrifice himelf for us? How does this make sense. We were cursed because someone ate some fruit for all times, but he'll die to right that wrong? How does that work? Could he have paid my cable bill if he just stubbed his toe? And what are the option of not loving him or accepting his sacrifice? Eternal torture? Isn't telling someone to love them or they well endure eternal pain sort of like date rape?
They didn't just eat fruit, they ate fruit from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. How would Adam and Eve really know what Good and Evil were if they didn't have any knowledge of it to begin with. *scratches head*
Oh, sorry, I forgot to add that it was magic fruit. And good job letting satan into the garden to tempt them god. Hey wait, how could have satan been evil or fell from grace if God didn't invent it first? Did Satan create evil? If he did wouldn't that make him as powerful as god since he can create? This is confusing.
You know what I don't get? They wrapped Jesus's dead body in burial clothes and a shroud and put him in the tomb. After three days, the tomb was empty and the shroud and burial clothing were on the ground, empty. But when Jesus shows back up, he's in white clothes. Did Jesus roll some Jew in the alleys of Jerusalem and steal his clothes? I find it hard to believe the messiah would mug some one.0 -
You know what I don't get? They wrapped Jesus's dead body in burial clothes and a shroud and put him in the tomb. After three days, the tomb was empty and the shroud and burial clothing were on the ground, empty. But when Jesus shows back up, he's in white clothes. Did Jesus roll some Jew in the alleys of Jerusalem and steal his clothes? I find it hard to believe the messiah would mug some one.
His attire is the part of the story you find difficult to believe? LOL0 -
You know what I don't get? They wrapped Jesus's dead body in burial clothes and a shroud and put him in the tomb. After three days, the tomb was empty and the shroud and burial clothing were on the ground, empty. But when Jesus shows back up, he's in white clothes. Did Jesus roll some Jew in the alleys of Jerusalem and steal his clothes? I find it hard to believe the messiah would mug some one.
His attire is the part of the story you find difficult to believe? LOL
:laugh: :laugh:
"Sure I get the Resurrection and the testimony of illiterate, hysterical women passed down in stories sounds completely accurate to me. An angel rolls away the boulder, sure sure. But what was he wearing?? All white?! SOOO ostentatious, even for the savior!"0 -
You know what I don't get? They wrapped Jesus's dead body in burial clothes and a shroud and put him in the tomb. After three days, the tomb was empty and the shroud and burial clothing were on the ground, empty. But when Jesus shows back up, he's in white clothes. Did Jesus roll some Jew in the alleys of Jerusalem and steal his clothes? I find it hard to believe the messiah would mug some one.
His attire is the part of the story you find difficult to believe? LOL
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You can always count on atheist to ridicule Christianity in a religious debate. I'm quite pleased that I have never seen a Christian do the same to an atheist on here. So much for respecting others' beliefs. It's also pretty obvious that certain atheists are angry with religion and/or God. I would have hoped in a non- atheist forum group we could try debating without ridiculing each others' positions. Oh well.0
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You can always count on atheist to ridicule Christianity in a religious debate. I'm quite pleased that I have never seen a Christian do the same to an atheist on here. So much for respecting others' beliefs. It's also pretty obvious that certain atheists are angry with religion and/or God. I would have hoped in a non- atheist forum group we could try debating without ridiculing each others' positions. Oh well.
Patti Patti hold up. Blasphemy is something I'd very much like to discuss with you.
You're offended. I understand. People have made a joke of what you believe and you don't care for that. But don't act like it all comes from one side. Those demotivational posters Adrian is posting well.. they make them about atheists too.
If you say you've never heard a Christian attack/ridicule an atheist before I'm sorry, but you just haven't been paying attention. You can claim all the persecution you'd like, but trust me, we get it much more on this side. Even today there are atheists who are flat out run out of towns they might move to. You tell me the last time that happened to a Christian in this country.
Blasphemy is important to discuss. Just because someone believes it do we have to respect it? Be honest Patti, do you really respect the beliefs of Scientologists? They believe in space aliens that have imprinted on our brains. Or Mormons? They preach that Jesus came from space and appeared a second time in Missouri. You don't think that's at all silly?
The reason this is important is because right now in Saudi Arabia there's an Australian who's about to get 500 lashes for saying something that Islamic clerics didn't particularly care for. So while I'm sure it's not fun watching others ridicule your beliefs don't you think it's important that they be allowed to?0 -
Oh, I get that atheists get ridiculed. I was specifically referring to this discussion in this group. I'm all for these types of debates, and I find them worthwhile, as you know. I would like to see us be able to do so without ridiculing to the point of purposefully being disrespectful and offensive.0
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I will reply regarding blasphemy and your other points when I get home. Too much to type on my iPhone.0
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Patti, I think you need to round up some of your Christian friends from here and bring em over! And I mean that in a good way---I think it would be a much more interesting debate to have various views from believers instead of the few atheists/nonbelievers arguing just with you.
But please don't leave. I would miss you! :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:0 -
Patti, I think you need to round up some of your Christian friends from here and bring em over! And I mean that in a good way---I think it would be a much more interesting debate to have various views from believers instead of the few atheists/nonbelievers arguing just with you.
But please don't leave. I would miss you! :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
I'm stickin' around! I may not reply to those who cannot carry on a respectful, mature debate though.
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You can always count on atheist to ridicule Christianity in a religious debate. I'm quite pleased that I have never seen a Christian do the same to an atheist on here. So much for respecting others' beliefs. It's also pretty obvious that certain atheists are angry with religion and/or God. I would have hoped in a non- atheist forum group we could try debating without ridiculing each others' positions. Oh well.
Give me a break. Church doctrine is that all non-believers burn. What could be more offensive than that? Jokes are jokes, and I know a lot of Christians who think these are funny as well. So how about this one?
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Patti Patti hold up. Blasphemy is something I'd very much like to discuss with you.
Blasphemy is important to discuss. Just because someone believes it do we have to respect it? Be honest Patti, do you really respect the beliefs of Scientologists? They believe in space aliens that have imprinted on our brains. Or Mormons? They preach that Jesus came from space and appeared a second time in Missouri. You don't think that's at all silly?
The reason this is important is because right now in Saudi Arabia there's an Australian who's about to get 500 lashes for saying something that Islamic clerics didn't particularly care for. So while I'm sure it's not fun watching others ridicule your beliefs don't you think it's important that they be allowed to?
When I don't agree with what another person believes (or doesn't believe), there are ways of dealing with that that are good and some, I think, that are bad. If I don't agree with Scientology (which I don't), I can respond by ridiculing and making fun of it or I can say that I haven't found any compelling reason to think it is true, or something like that. I can criticize Islam's sometimes barbaric punishments either by demonizing all Muslims or by saying something like, "I wish those Muslims would learn from the Sufi Muslims, and show more compassion and kindness." I think there are respectful ways to disagree with others. I don't think we should be expected to withhold judgment or refuse to express our views or convictions. I guess what I'm saying is that even if we do not find another person's beliefs "respectable," we can extend respect to other human persons and respectfully disagree. I also think that sometimes we should be clear and perhaps even sharp and direct in our discussions of religious differences but we should refrain from making fun of people and beliefs.0 -
+1 This is the reason it is enjoyable (imho) to converse with Patti. Unfortunately, people on both sides of the ideology sometimes fail to exercise this concept, and that's when debates break down.0
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When I worked with a first grade teacher, she had a marvelous way of explaining the difference to the children between "just joking" and "bullying"
She said it's joking when everyone is laughing at the joke. It's bullying when everyone is laughing at someone.0 -
When I worked with a first grade teacher, she had a marvelous way of explaining the difference to the children between "just joking" and "bullying"
She said it's joking when everyone is laughing at the joke. It's bullying when everyone is laughing at someone.
"Mockery of religion is one of the most essential things... one of the beginnings of human emancipation is the ability to laugh at authority."
"Do I, who have read Freud, know what the Future of an Illusion really is and know that religious belief is ineradicable as long as we remain a stupid, poorly-evolved mammalian species, think that some Canadian law is gonna solve this problem? Please. No, our problem is this: our pre-frontal lobes are too small, and our adrenalin glands are too big, and our thumb-finger opposition isn't all that it might be, and we're afraid of the dark, and we're afraid to die, and we believe in the truths of holy books that are so stupid and so fabricated that a child can (and all children do, as you can tell from their questions) see through them. And I think it should be (religion) treated with ridicule and hatred and contempt. And I claim that right."
Both by Christopher Hitchens, and both of which I agree. How can I bully 70% of the population who believe in religion. They have every politician, all the money, their churches pay no taxes, and they cry when some one says happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas as if they are the opressed ones. The atheist has been called a traitor and unamerican by U.S. Presidents, we are continually mistrusted in every poll above every other minority.
So bullying? Really? I think it's faithful will gladly justify atrocities in the name of their own faith like ancient and brutal scripture and sweep under the rug modern atrocities like the rape of children all in the name of their fatih and glory of their church. But at the end of the day, as I have said previoulsy, as vulgar, offensive, arrogant and demeaning as you think I can be, explain to me how a faith built on the doctrine of those who do not believe in our way burns forever isn't the ultimate in offensiveness.
Sure they will smile and put a positve spin on it by twisting words or hiding behind the prefabricated rules of ancient goatherders by saying, "Oh, I don't want you to go to hell,' but they think you are going to.0 -
It always disappoints me when threads about religion get derailed by people making fun of someone else's belief. We're trying to teach my younger sister that there is a difference between stating your opinion and saying something that will hurt other people's feelings. I like to remind her that "you can't make friends by thinking you're always right and everyone else is wrong". I realize were not here to "make friends" in the way an 8 year old is, but you cannot hold a respectable debate in this manner either. To me, when someone begins "attacking" the "ridiculousness" of religion, their academic integrity and overall standing pretty much disappears. And I can no longer take their opinions seriously.
You don't have to believe in religion, you don't even have to respect it.. but in the word's of my preschool teacher "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".
Respect people, it makes these debates go much further and become much more interesting. If you want to make fun of religion, start a new group. If you want to debate like adults, stick around.0 -
It always disappoints me when threads about religion get derailed by people making fun of someone else's belief. We're trying to teach my younger sister that there is a difference between stating your opinion and saying something that will hurt other people's feelings. I like to remind her that "you can't make friends by thinking you're always right and everyone else is wrong". I realize were not here to "make friends" in the way an 8 year old is, but you cannot hold a respectable debate in this manner either. To me, when someone begins "attacking" the "ridiculousness" of religion, their academic integrity and overall standing pretty much disappears. And I can no longer take their opinions seriously.
You don't have to believe in religion, you don't even have to respect it.. but in the word's of my preschool teacher "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".
Respect people, it makes these debates go much further and become much more interesting. If you want to make fun of religion, start a new group. If you want to debate like adults, stick around.
It always disappoints me when some one can smile, speak politely and tell me I have no moral foundation like Patti has done in the past. Here is Patti's first post after I said I let my kids attend church for an educated view.
"Interesting. Clearly those atheists who take their kids to church because they want them to “make up their own mind” do not think religion is “evil.” Surely they wouldn’t want their kids to “choose” something that is intrinsically bad for them. We don’t put our kids in a situation where they will harm themselves just so they can have choices, do we? Atheists who take their kids to church and want them to have a legitimate basis of making a decision about religion seem to betray, perhaps, a deeper unsettledness on the matter. Maybe also these atheists see how impoverishing the atheist world-view really is. Since religion addresses such matters that atheists cannot, it makes sense to me that loving parents, even if they have trouble believing, secretly hope their kids will find something that will give them a more fulfilled life than their own. It is interesting how parents who adopt atheism (or other “protest” type movements) have a hard time transmitting the same kind of atheism to their children. Children often see through the inconsistencies and inadequacies of their parents’ ideological choices."
First, she puts words in my mouth about my own views. Second she calls our world view "impoverish". Then she claims that I secretly hope that my children will turn to religion to have a life more fulfilled than my own. Then she ends it with my children will see through the inadequacies and inconsistencies of my ideological choices.
But no one defends me. No even questions the offensiveness of that? Why? But all of a sudden everyone is up in arms when I show a few funny posters and I'm the bully. I tell you what, as long as my belief sytem, my values, and my integrity are being challenged in such an offensive way, I will fire back as I see fit. Quit being hypocrites, and at least I am saying exactly what I mean and saying it to exactly the person I am confronting, not acting like some victim for everyones sympathy.0 -
It always disappoints me when some one can smile, speak politely and tell me I have no moral foundation like Patti has done in the past. Here is Patti's first post after I said I let my kids attend church for an educated view.
"Interesting. Clearly those atheists who take their kids to church because they want them to “make up their own mind” do not think religion is “evil.” Surely they wouldn’t want their kids to “choose” something that is intrinsically bad for them. We don’t put our kids in a situation where they will harm themselves just so they can have choices, do we? Atheists who take their kids to church and want them to have a legitimate basis of making a decision about religion seem to betray, perhaps, a deeper unsettledness on the matter. Maybe also these atheists see how impoverishing the atheist world-view really is. Since religion addresses such matters that atheists cannot, it makes sense to me that loving parents, even if they have trouble believing, secretly hope their kids will find something that will give them a more fulfilled life than their own. It is interesting how parents who adopt atheism (or other “protest” type movements) have a hard time transmitting the same kind of atheism to their children. Children often see through the inconsistencies and inadequacies of their parents’ ideological choices."
First, she puts words in my mouth about my own views. Second she calls our world view "impoverish". Then she claims that I secretly hope that my children will turn to religion to have a life more fulfilled than my own. Then she ends it with my children will see through the inadequacies and inconsistencies of my ideological choices.
But no one defends me. No even questions the offensiveness of that? Why? But all of a sudden everyone is up in arms when I show a few funny posters and I'm the bully. I tell you what, as long as my belief sytem, my values, and my integrity are being challenged in such an offensive way, I will fire back as I see fit. Quit being hypocrites, and at least I am saying exactly what I mean and saying it to exactly the person I am confronting, not acting like some victim for everyones sympathy.
What I typed was in response to the article I read that originally began this topic. In no way was that directed at you. It was my personal opinion about why some atheists would go to church with their children. I shared my opinion of the article with some of my atheist friends not on MFP, and none were offended and we ended up having a decent discussion about it.0
This discussion has been closed.