Women who are intimidating?
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Im smart enough not to care about those that are intimdated by me.0
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At dinner with some guys on my team... one says I'm intimidating, and another agrees. Two more nod their heads as I protest, "But I'm the most girly-girl non intimidating person you guys know off duty." I'm told, "guys don't like women to know more than they do."
What do you all think?
I think most men in business are intimidated by strong and succesful women. You say the guys on 'your team' does that mean you're their boss??
Either way, peer or boss, its not an insult, and I wouldnt take it as one. In fact, in business, its probably required so that you're respected and treated as an equal, rather than some bimbo that doesnt know what she's talking about! :bigsmile:
Not true of me. In fact, when I worked for EDS, there was a woman everybody called the silver fox. She was ultra type A, high energy, aggressive, and at times could be ruthless. Everyone was afraid of her and wouldn't challenge her (fortunately she was very good at her job and ran a top notch department). I would have asked her out had she not been married.
Do yo like being whipped as well Amisnercpa?? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Haven't tried it, but I'm guessing a little role playing could be fun. :glasses:0 -
Not an issue for me at all. I am expecting that a woman will be a financial contributor in a long term relationship. Not looking for a stay at home mom type. I want someone with a stable job, smarts and work-life balance. I have no desire to be with someone who works long hours as that will take away from our time together and our time to pursue the hobbies that interest us individually.
Smart women with careers are less likely to be big time game players in relationships, which is something I desire.
I'm perfect for you. Oh wait.....nevermind.........kids..........plus I'm old...............0 -
At dinner with some guys on my team... one says I'm intimidating, and another agrees. Two more nod their heads as I protest, "But I'm the most girly-girl non intimidating person you guys know off duty." I'm told, "guys don't like women to know more than they do."
What do you all think?
I think most men in business are intimidated by strong and succesful women. You say the guys on 'your team' does that mean you're their boss??
Either way, peer or boss, its not an insult, and I wouldnt take it as one. In fact, in business, its probably required so that you're respected and treated as an equal, rather than some bimbo that doesnt know what she's talking about! :bigsmile:
Not true of me. In fact, when I worked for EDS, there was a woman everybody called the silver fox. She was ultra type A, high energy, aggressive, and at times could be ruthless. Everyone was afraid of her and wouldn't challenge her (fortunately she was very good at her job and ran a top notch department). I would have asked her out had she not been married.
Do yo like being whipped as well Amisnercpa?? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Haven't tried it, but I'm guessing a little role playing could be fun. :glasses:
hahaha!! :laugh: :laugh: Top answer Amis! Never say never eh? If only I was that adventurous :ohwell: When a guy said to me he had a selection of whips and chains, I ran a mile .....at double speed! :laugh: :laugh:0 -
I'm not afraid to admit some women intimidate me.
If a woman is strong, knows what she wants, and projects that, I'm not going to approach her. In my mind, she's more likely to reject me immediately. I also assume she'd be more likely to approach the men she's interested in, so the fact that I haven't gotten approached just means she's not interested in me.
Thank you for your honesty. Also, I had never considered your last sentence. So, since she's strong, you figure she'd come after you if interested? But (guys inbox me on this one if you don't wanna type it here) doesn't that make men feel like "less of a man?"0 -
I haven't the first clue how to appear 'unintimidating', when I don't honestly understand how people can think I'm intimidating in the first place. I can't see any point in pretending to be someone I'm not
Thanks for the rest of your post, you seem to have great friends! I especially agree with this part... I fully believe it does no good to pretend to be someone else, even in a budding relationship. After all, I want the man who eventually gets me to settle down to fall in love with the REAL me... the one who should float his boat for the rest of our lives.
As a minister and former pastor's wife, I've seen lots of relationships fall apart for one of these two reasons: 1) they pretend to be what the spouse wanted in order to "catch" them, then reverted to their real self after marriage (With the premise, well, now you have to love me for who I am. hogwash. I loved you for who you WERE when we dated). And, 2) they make no real effort to grow together as they mature ("we just grew apart" is a cop-out... of course you're going to change as you mature, that's life. But it's possible to keep the relationship alive by making a concerted effort to spend time together).
Off my soapbox now.0 -
Okay, let me reformulate this: while you would certainly know more than I do in many areas (gossip about movie stars), I would on the other hand know more than you do in many others (everything that is not gossip about movie stars).
So first, this argument does not compute with me!
And that's one of the things I told them... that there are things men bring to the table that they know more about and do better than women. And a smart woman will acknowledge that, even if she is strong and capable of running her own life.0 -
self-conscious enough about being too girly for your line of work so you overcompensate by being too hard. (keep in mind I don't know you and this is more or less a psycho-babble generalization).
This is absolutely true. I was counseled early on in my career to toughen up at work, that I couldn't be a leader of tough military men and be-bop down the hallway. At work I'm am fairly hard, which gets the job done, but I've gotten lighter as I've moved up in rank.
And I didn't quote it, but what you wrote about your friend was also true at one time... and I think contributed to the break-up of my marriage: At work I was Ms Dragon Lady and at home was Ms Submissive Mouse. Bringing both parts of my life into balance was something my ex couldn't handle. He wanted the mouse back, but I became a normal balanced person with normal balanced boundaries, and wasn't going back to that.0 -
that sounds like a weak man to me.
What's funny is these were all highly accomplished senior military and civilian leaders who outrank me. I totally did not expect them to say that to me, because they themselves do not act the least bit intimidated by me. In fact, I endured a rather harsh round of teasing the entire trip (male bonding, gotta love it).0 -
Oops, spoke too soon.... back on my soapbox...This is just your education issue re-wrapped in a bigger box. There are guys out there who are comfortable in their own skin and don't need a lady beneath them to boost their ego. Some of us like having strong women around us.
Yeah, but I'm not looking for more guy friends who just like being surrounded by strong women. I have plenty of those. And they have a ton of strong female friends, but all seem to gravitate, romantically, to ditzy women who won't call them on their crap. *even though* every single one of them (including someone reading this who I just adore) will tell you, "I want a strong, intelligent, woman who won't put up with my $@%^" Yeah, right.
When these guys told me I was too intimidating, I even tried to joke about it, telling them, "I've come to the conclusion that when a guy says I'm too intimidating that's just his way of saying "I'm not into you" but trying to blame it on me so they don't feel like the bad guy." Their response? Nope. You're seriously just too intimidating.
Whatever.0 -
So you are great at your job, confident, and in peak physical condition, obviously smart and articulate. You work in the military and do what 50 years ago would have been considered mans work. I have bad news, you are intimidating. But in my book that is awesome. Don't change a thing. You may have trouble finding someone who isn't intimidated by you, but when you do find him it will be fantastic.0
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But in my book that is awesome. Don't change a thing. You may have trouble finding someone who isn't intimidated by you, but when you do find him it will be fantastic.
Aww, thanks! You are so right!0 -
JanieJack this isn't the first time I've thought that the problem is the guys you are mixing with. Yes some guys will be intimidated, that's fine they just self selected themself out as unsuitable for you. Clever, confident guys LOVE smart women. They find their intelligence and wit funny, interesting, sexy. They love the challenge and admire the woman.
The only time I think it becomes a problem is if her manner is intimidating. I have a few smart, beautiful single friends who are very warm generally but their manner changes when I guy who interests them is around. I dont think it sounds as if you have this problem, but mention it just in case.0 -
Damn, tried to edit and mfp ate my reply :grumble:
I wanted to add:
Intimidation may not always be quite the right word to describe what's happening. Often it's more about views of self/the world and what you feel comfortable/uncomfortable with. I've done some work with military/police guys of this type. Often what draws them to the career is the power/rank and control that comes with it. Being in charge/control is an enormous part of their psyche and they are very, very uncomfortable without the sense of control that comes with being in an authoritarian gender/work role (albeit a benevolant/protective one). Often they have very traditional/conventional views of gender roles and this affects the types of women they will feel comfortable with as a mate. This is a huge generalisation. I've met other guys of senior rank who are in the job for other reasons, have a more flexible view of self/the world and are comfortable with sharing control within a relationship.0 -
Oops, spoke too soon.... back on my soapbox...This is just your education issue re-wrapped in a bigger box. There are guys out there who are comfortable in their own skin and don't need a lady beneath them to boost their ego. Some of us like having strong women around us.
Yeah, but I'm not looking for more guy friends who just like being surrounded by strong women. I have plenty of those. And they have a ton of strong female friends, but all seem to gravitate, romantically, to ditzy women who won't call them on their crap. *even though* every single one of them (including someone reading this who I just adore) will tell you, "I want a strong, intelligent, woman who won't put up with my $@%^" Yeah, right.
Oh, you said it! I have more male friends than female, and those I most like/wish were single and who SAY they want strong, intelligent women (typically the sorted-out, intelligent, apparently-strong, charismatic ones) have the ditziest girlfriends going. A series of them, in some cases. I love my friends, but sometimes, no matter how hard I try, I can't sustain a conversation with their SOs because they have nothing to say about anything, quite literally.
I had a truly excruciating evening with two of my male friends a couple of years ago, when one unexpectedly brought his girlfriend along. The three of us had to stop and re-route the conversation every 2-3 minutes in fruitless efforts to include her. How on earth is that a positive?! And why is it that a woman who can join in on most subjects is made less attractive by that fact? Why anyone would think that a lifetime with someone they can't have a decent conversation with is likely to be happy/enjoyable/successful is a mystery to me!0 -
Oops, spoke too soon.... back on my soapbox...This is just your education issue re-wrapped in a bigger box. There are guys out there who are comfortable in their own skin and don't need a lady beneath them to boost their ego. Some of us like having strong women around us.
Yeah, but I'm not looking for more guy friends who just like being surrounded by strong women. I have plenty of those. And they have a ton of strong female friends, but all seem to gravitate, romantically, to ditzy women who won't call them on their crap. *even though* every single one of them (including someone reading this who I just adore) will tell you, "I want a strong, intelligent, woman who won't put up with my $@%^" Yeah, right.
Oh, you said it! I have more male friends than female, and those I most like/wish were single and who SAY they want strong, intelligent women (typically the sorted-out, intelligent, apparently-strong, charismatic ones) have the ditziest girlfriends going. A series of them, in some cases. I love my friends, but sometimes, no matter how hard I try, I can't sustain a conversation with their SOs because they have nothing to say about anything, quite literally.
I had a truly excruciating evening with two of my male friends a couple of years ago, when one unexpectedly brought his girlfriend along. The three of us had to stop and re-route the conversation every 2-3 minutes in fruitless efforts to include her. How on earth is that a positive?! And why is it that a woman who can join in on most subjects is made less attractive by that fact? Why anyone would think that a lifetime with someone they can't have a decent conversation with is likely to be happy/enjoyable/successful is a mystery to me!
But you see, they have someone who can have a decent conversation. In you.
It is rare to find someone who fits all your hallmarks of what makes a perfect mate. So, people settle, but not typically in a logical way. And then our friends often fill the gaps on what we need.0 -
Oops, spoke too soon.... back on my soapbox...This is just your education issue re-wrapped in a bigger box. There are guys out there who are comfortable in their own skin and don't need a lady beneath them to boost their ego. Some of us like having strong women around us.
Yeah, but I'm not looking for more guy friends who just like being surrounded by strong women. I have plenty of those. And they have a ton of strong female friends, but all seem to gravitate, romantically, to ditzy women who won't call them on their crap. *even though* every single one of them (including someone reading this who I just adore) will tell you, "I want a strong, intelligent, woman who won't put up with my $@%^" Yeah, right.
Oh, you said it! I have more male friends than female, and those I most like/wish were single and who SAY they want strong, intelligent women (typically the sorted-out, intelligent, apparently-strong, charismatic ones) have the ditziest girlfriends going. A series of them, in some cases. I love my friends, but sometimes, no matter how hard I try, I can't sustain a conversation with their SOs because they have nothing to say about anything, quite literally.
I had a truly excruciating evening with two of my male friends a couple of years ago, when one unexpectedly brought his girlfriend along. The three of us had to stop and re-route the conversation every 2-3 minutes in fruitless efforts to include her. How on earth is that a positive?! And why is it that a woman who can join in on most subjects is made less attractive by that fact? Why anyone would think that a lifetime with someone they can't have a decent conversation with is likely to be happy/enjoyable/successful is a mystery to me!
But you see, they have someone who can have a decent conversation. In you.
It is rare to find someone who fits all your hallmarks of what makes a perfect mate. So, people settle, but not typically in a logical way. And then our friends often fill the gaps on what we need.
I agree friends often fill the gaps and that's entirly healthy. The problem comes when the gaps are craters that become fault lines in the relationship and more is being invested outside the relationship than in it. Perfection is unattainable but people often compromise on the wrong things, on the important things like the level of communictaion and shared values, rather than the trivial (like how much someone earns, or aspects of their lifesyle/past.
I don't think settling is the only issue that explains choices like this. A huge proportion of people who claim to want someone they can share all of themselves with also find the concept deeply threatening. They gravitate towards people they can be with and still feel safe. All those people with committment issues, those who feel more comfortable living a separate life alongside their mate, not sharing major parts of their identity with them, those with trust issues - they all need to feel well defended in a relationship. They choose ones in which they don't ever need to feel completely exposed and vulnerable to rejection. It's largely subconscious but no less powerful for being so. It's self defeating as the relationships are weaker because of it.0 -
But you see, they have someone who can have a decent conversation. In you.
It is rare to find someone who fits all your hallmarks of what makes a perfect mate. So, people settle, but not typically in a logical way. And then our friends often fill the gaps on what we need.
I'm starting to get tired of being every guy's gap filler.
Edited to add: I'm happy being single right now, getting my life back together and having fun...but in a few years I'll start wanting a permanent relationship. Stuff like this is why I'm trying to prepare myself for the possibility that may never happen.0 -
I'm not afraid to admit some women intimidate me.
If a woman is strong, knows what she wants, and projects that, I'm not going to approach her. In my mind, she's more likely to reject me immediately. I also assume she'd be more likely to approach the men she's interested in, so the fact that I haven't gotten approached just means she's not interested in me.
Thank you for your honesty. Also, I had never considered your last sentence. So, since she's strong, you figure she'd come after you if interested? But (guys inbox me on this one if you don't wanna type it here) doesn't that make men feel like "less of a man?"
Obviously I'm more shy than most of the guys on here, but I'd have no problem if a girl came after me. At least not at the introduction stage. Now if she started picking me up for dates and paying for them all the time, then yeah I probably would feel like less of a man.0 -
I'm not afraid to admit some women intimidate me.
If a woman is strong, knows what she wants, and projects that, I'm not going to approach her. In my mind, she's more likely to reject me immediately. I also assume she'd be more likely to approach the men she's interested in, so the fact that I haven't gotten approached just means she's not interested in me.
Thank you for your honesty. Also, I had never considered your last sentence. So, since she's strong, you figure she'd come after you if interested? But (guys inbox me on this one if you don't wanna type it here) doesn't that make men feel like "less of a man?"
Obviously I'm more shy than most of the guys on here, but I'd have no problem if a girl came after me. At least not at the introduction stage. Now if she started picking me up for dates and paying for them all the time, then yeah I probably would feel like less of a man.
I don't care if a woman picks up the tab on date. I've had that happened and liked it.
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I don't care if a woman picks up the tab on date. I've had that happened and liked it.
I don't mind it occasionally, but not all the time.0 -
I always feel as though it's one of the worse insults.
Im here, with you, excited and ready for a fun date and hopefully a very enjoyable evening. But when I show up, you go quiet, get a bit defensive, dont show you're true colors and even though I did my best to look pretty for you and give you a totally fair chance and see your personality and spend time together - You shut down, tell me Im intimidating and suggest maybe we just bang and go our separate ways.
IN my head, intimidating always means - Im too scared of you to spend time with you in public.0 -
Oops, spoke too soon.... back on my soapbox...This is just your education issue re-wrapped in a bigger box. There are guys out there who are comfortable in their own skin and don't need a lady beneath them to boost their ego. Some of us like having strong women around us.
Yeah, but I'm not looking for more guy friends who just like being surrounded by strong women. I have plenty of those. And they have a ton of strong female friends, but all seem to gravitate, romantically, to ditzy women who won't call them on their crap. *even though* every single one of them (including someone reading this who I just adore) will tell you, "I want a strong, intelligent, woman who won't put up with my $@%^" Yeah, right.
Oh, you said it! I have more male friends than female, and those I most like/wish were single and who SAY they want strong, intelligent women (typically the sorted-out, intelligent, apparently-strong, charismatic ones) have the ditziest girlfriends going. A series of them, in some cases. I love my friends, but sometimes, no matter how hard I try, I can't sustain a conversation with their SOs because they have nothing to say about anything, quite literally.
I had a truly excruciating evening with two of my male friends a couple of years ago, when one unexpectedly brought his girlfriend along. The three of us had to stop and re-route the conversation every 2-3 minutes in fruitless efforts to include her. How on earth is that a positive?! And why is it that a woman who can join in on most subjects is made less attractive by that fact? Why anyone would think that a lifetime with someone they can't have a decent conversation with is likely to be happy/enjoyable/successful is a mystery to me!
But you see, they have someone who can have a decent conversation. In you.
It is rare to find someone who fits all your hallmarks of what makes a perfect mate. So, people settle, but not typically in a logical way. And then our friends often fill the gaps on what we need.
I agree friends often fill the gaps and that's entirly healthy. The problem comes when the gaps are craters that become fault lines in the relationship and more is being invested outside the relationship than in it. Perfection is unattainable but people often compromise on the wrong things, on the important things like the level of communictaion and shared values, rather than the trivial (like how much someone earns, or aspects of their lifesyle/past.
I don't think settling is the only issue that explains choices like this. A huge proportion of people who claim to want someone they can share all of themselves with also find the concept deeply threatening. They gravitate towards people they can be with and still feel safe. All those people with committment issues, those who feel more comfortable living a separate life alongside their mate, not sharing major parts of their identity with them, those with trust issues - they all need to feel well defended in a relationship. They choose ones in which they don't ever need to feel completely exposed and vulnerable to rejection. It's largely subconscious but no less powerful for being so. It's self defeating as the relationships are weaker because of it.
My analysis is that a lot of men are very scared of being on their own - more so, I think, than most (independent, potentially 'intimidating'!) women. I've seen so many of my male friends persist in relationships that were clearly not going to work in the long term, rather than risk letting go of what wasn't working and trying again with a woman they seemed more likely to be happy with in ten years, or even ten months, time, or risking being alone for a while until they find the right person.
I also perceive that some men seem to subconsciously fear that if a woman is capable, independent and intelligent, she is more likely to reject them at some point in the future (an effect of womens' increased financial independence, perhaps ), so they don't gravitate towards that sort of woman romantically, no matter what their stated intellectual desires are. It is a generalisation, and I know it doesn't apply to all men, but I think it is the case for many.0 -
I'm a strong person, and I've found in the past that I attract weaker men. It's the ones with no spine who WANT someone to take care of them and tell them what to do that seem to really like me. But those men cause an excessive amount of eye rolling and I quickly lose patience with them.
The men who are more assertive or dominant may not like the idea that someone with a stronger personality will challenge them. They're going to be naturally more attracted to a submissive person - It keeps balance in the relationship - Because I think finding a relationship where both parties are on equal footing (neither dominant nor submissive) is damn near impossible - Yet that's what I strive for.0 -
I rarely get hit on by men once they find out I have a good job, own my own home, and that I’m getting my masters degree. However, I know girls that have no ambitions in life and party every night that attract men like flies. I don’t get it. I prefer to date men that are intelligent and have goals in life. I would think this mind frame would go both ways. Guess not….0
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I rarely get hit on by men once they find out I have a good job, own my own home, and that I’m getting my masters degree. However, I know girls that have no ambitions in life and party every night that attract men like flies. I don’t get it. I prefer to date men that are intelligent and have goals in life. I would think this mind frame would go both ways. Guess not….
That's sad. You're a great catch hun!0 -
I'm shocked at how many women are complaining about being intimidating. You know what though, it is possible you really are. Be careful to not send the wrong message!
When you are confident about your own ability, you should not forget to work on your "attainability".
Because it is true that a girl that "party every night and has no goal in life" might look less daunting to approach than someone who looks like they have everything ("I'm definitely no match for this girl! She's just too perfect...").
You know it's wrong, I know it's wrong, but the person who is looking at you doesn't.
Unfortunately, if you google attainability dating, you'll mainly find PUA sites for males. There are some FPUA (Female Pick up artists) websites too, but they are fairly rare since it's mostly men who are at loss in picking up/dating/relationships (and yes, I'm dead serious).
Anyway, "attainability": you should try to lower your "value" by joking about yourself (I do that constantly when talking to women), being humble (don't talk about your achievements unless asked, and play them down), smile and send signals to men (Indicators of Interests / IOI)... This last one is important, you've got to show that you are interested - man thinks you're just being polite otherwise.
Do some kino (laugh and touch the man's shoulder casually, stuff like that).
I can't imagine a man won't respond positively to this if you're half the woman you pretend you are (if you see the guy is still shy/doesn't attack much, throw a "Hey, why don't we swap numbers before I forget").
There is no way cute girls like you can't do that (apart if you lack the balls you accuse men of lacking which, admittedly, we are technically supposed to have more than you).
NOTE: "men who are at loss in picking up/dating/relationships" - proof is in the pudding, since we suck so much we need online resources and we cannot approach women like you. There.0 -
I'm a strong person, and I've found in the past that I attract weaker men. It's the ones with no spine who WANT someone to take care of them and tell them what to do that seem to really like me.
I've found the same things. The strong guys become my friends, move on to weaker targets. And the weak guys want me to take care of them (no thank you...I already have a kid).0 -
I also perceive that some men seem to subconsciously fear that if a woman is capable, independent and intelligent, she is more likely to reject them at some point in the future (an effect of womens' increased financial independence, perhaps ),
I'm sure this is a partial contributor... I seriously know two people who put up with jerky husbands because they've been at-home wives for 20+ and fear they can't make their own way if they leave him. Women who can fend for themselves aren't going to pretend to admire a guy who's treating her poorly, or allow him access to her body just to keep the peace. She will demand respect and find someone else if her partner disrespects her.0 -
Unfortunately, if you google attainability dating, you'll mainly find PUA sites for males. There are some FPUA (Female Pick up artists) websites too, but they are fairly rare since it's mostly men who are at loss in picking up/dating/relationships (and yes, I'm dead serious).
Really?? Never heard of these!! So, are they for shy people, or just for sex?? Not sure what you mean by 'pick-up'? (strong people maybe? :laugh:
Anyway, "attainability": you should try to lower your "value" by joking about yourself (I do that constantly when talking to women), being humble (don't talk about your achievements unless asked, and play them down), smile and send signals to men (Indicators of Interests / IOI)... This last one is important, you've got to show that you are interested - man thinks you're just being polite otherwise.
Do some kino (laugh and touch the man's shoulder casually, stuff like that).
Not sure about this Florian. How does lowering your value make you more attractive?? Surely, you should be aiming for people more on your wavelength??
Agree about the touching and general open body language :flowerforyou:
I can't imagine a man won't respond positively to this if you're half the woman you pretend you are (if you see the guy is still shy/doesn't attack much, throw a "Hey, why don't we swap numbers before I forget").
There is no way cute girls like you can't do that (apart if you lack the balls you accuse men of lacking which, admittedly, we are technically supposed to have more than you).
NOTE: "men who are at loss in picking up/dating/relationships" - proof is in the pudding, since we suck so much we need online resources and we cannot approach women like you. There.
This is going back to asking a guy out, and most women wait to be asked (as per previous thread), but I hear what you're saying. But also, dont assume just because a woman has an 'intimidating' demeanor, she is that confident!! Or that she doesn't like to be asked as is the traditional and accepted roles at play :flowerforyou:0
This discussion has been closed.