Women who are intimidating?
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I've never experienced stalking behaviour, and I'm sure it's awful, but I'd rather endure that, and get a restraining order if I have to, than potentially endure a rape kit and the horrors of a trial, if I could possibly prevent that by doing a little googling. It won't apply to the majority, but better safe than sorry. That doesn't make me a snob, that makes me smart and sensible.
I still wanna know how you find out about potential rapists online?? I must be missing something....... :frown:
Stalkers are BAD! I had one of those.........urgh!
Rapists can't rape you in a pub!! Perhaps do the googling if you'll see them again and be on your own with them??
It's mandatory to ask for a surname, I always do this. And tell them mine. I've never had a guy refuse to give that info. And I speak on the phone first, so numbers are exchanged, albeit only mobile numbers.
I think most men understand that women want/need to feel safe. Its all the other stuff that a google search might bring up!! Like I dont want some random guy to see me in a picture with some other random guy.......or read a blog that I wrote in the heat of the moment.......or decide I'm too much of a party goer cos I mentioned how drunk I was ..........or countless other judgements that can be made without knowing a person/ or getting to know them. That's the bigger issue where I find it intrusive...........but I do understand the safety aspect if only there were a register for pervs and rapists or freaks!! :flowerforyou:0 -
In the United States, if you're convicted of a sex crime, your name is on a public database and posted on the Internet. If a woman doesn't Google a man she's planning to meet for the first time, she's being foolish. I would think it was awesome if a woman figured out things about me. It shows me she is intelligent (not creepy).0
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If someone googled me they would sure be disappointed. I have no facebook/myspace/other crap. About the only thing you'd find is maybe a couple of posts on tech mailing lists (if you dig deep enough). Even a lot of those are under aliased names.
I just googled myself and didn't find the "real" me until the 10th search result, and that was a boring post on a gaming forum.
Would that project something bad to women, like I'm trying to hide something?
I'm just a very boring person when it comes to an online presence.0 -
If someone googled me they would sure be disappointed. I have no facebook/myspace/other crap. About the only thing you'd find is maybe a couple of posts on tech mailing lists (if you dig deep enough). Even a lot of those are under aliased names.
I just googled myself and didn't find the "real" me until the 10th search result, and that was a boring post on a gaming forum.
Would that project something bad to women, like I'm trying to hide something?
I'm just a very boring person when it comes to an online presence.
You wouldn't find anything on me either. Boring? No!! Private? Yes!!
And that was the whole point.
But anyway, this thread seems to have taken on a bit of an affront to peoples intelligence so we should end it there :flowerforyou:0 -
I still wanna know how you find out about potential rapists online?? I must be missing something....... :frown:
Stalkers are BAD! I had one of those.........urgh!
Rapists can't rape you in a pub!! Perhaps do the googling if you'll see them again and be on your own with them??
It's mandatory to ask for a surname, I always do this. And tell them mine. I've never had a guy refuse to give that info. And I speak on the phone first, so numbers are exchanged, albeit only mobile numbers.
I think most men understand that women want/need to feel safe. Its all the other stuff that a google search might bring up!! Like I dont want some random guy to see me in a picture with some other random guy.......or read a blog that I wrote in the heat of the moment.......or decide I'm too much of a party goer cos I mentioned how drunk I was ..........or countless other judgements that can be made without knowing a person/ or getting to know them. That's the bigger issue where I find it intrusive...........but I do understand the safety aspect if only there were a register for pervs and rapists or freaks!! :flowerforyou:
Of course you can't necessarily detect potential rapists, Anna, but you can find out if you are being told the truth about basic things, which might be an indication of how trustworthy someone is. Also, as amisnercpa said, if someone has been convicted of a crime, that's definitely going to come up on a search. A close friend of mine would certainly dispute that you can't be raped in a pub. Being in public, while it does make things safer, is not a guarantee of safety, especially if you are petite (not my problem!
) and/or the other person is significantly bigger/stronger than you.
I don't want to mistrust the world - of course I don't - but I do expect to take responsibility for my own safety as far as possible. I'm intelligent enough to know that not everything online is representative of who someone is, and I'm not going to go digging through someone's facebook friends or blog posts, but a basic google search would provide me with a little reassurance, and a bit more information to leave with a friend about who I'm going to meet, so that should something go wrong, heaven forbid, they're not left with only a first name to go by.0 -
Deep googling of me will pull up quite a bit. Most of which I'm proud of.
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The article that my Tuesday night date referenced was flattering to me. It was a well written article that received external recognition (beyond the site that I had it as a guest blog post on). She probably could have figured out that I am really talented as a writer and have some degree of aptitude in my field.
It was just the way it was brought up that was rather creepy in my mind.0 -
@Janie - How do you know that information is up to date anyhow? I mean, what if the guy WAS married and is now separated or divorced but things aren't updated? Couldnt you find out the WRONG info??
You don't know for sure the info is accurate, but it brings up information you can work into conversation later. Like the guy who told me he'd never been married but actually had been twice (because his facebook was public and his ex wives were mentioned), the guy who took off his ring and said he was divorced but was actually still married (his wife posting pictures of them kissing at their babygirl's first birthday the month previous) or the guy who (I think I've told y'all about him) told me he was 45 but I found out online he was closer to 60 with kids my age.
The last guy I canceled our date and never met, but the other two I just tried to work it into conversation (just in case I was wrong): So you're divorced, like I am- that must have been tough. How long have you been single? Two years? Oh, wow, for some reason I thought you had a baby girl that just turned one..I'm sorry I must have confused you with someone else. I try not to be creepy about it, but my ex lied to me for 15 years, and lying is one of my biggest pet peeves.0 -
I've had several friends assaulted. An ex boyfriend used to own a comedy club and a bar, and he told me many horror stories about what happened to women in his clubs, so I know it happens more often than we'd like to think.
I've had two friends who were stalked. Not pleasant.
This is not a game.
I'm not generally worried about it because I do take precautions, but keep in mind those precautions (such as meeting publicly the first couple times and holding off on locations that set the stage for intimacy (i.e. being alone, going to his place or mine) are also things that can make a guy think you're not interested enough.0 -
I'm not afraid to admit some women intimidate me.
If a woman is strong, knows what she wants, and projects that, I'm not going to approach her. In my mind, she's more likely to reject me immediately. I also assume she'd be more likely to approach the men she's interested in, so the fact that I haven't gotten approached just means she's not interested in me.
That being said I have nothing against these women and actually like those qualities. I'm just too intimidated to strike up a conversation.
The short of it is, if you're a strong woman, be confident and approach men you're interested in. Don't wait for us to approach you, because some of us are cowards.
No offense to you since you're at least being honest, but this is not a good enough excuse for me. If you were really interested in a woman, your desire to be with her would overpower your fear of rejection. This is why I don't believe in the "men are intimidated by strong women" nonsense. That's a cop-out for guys who don't want to deal with the fact that strong women tend to have higher standards.0 -
About googling the people you date ... being a woman, I definitely understand the security aspect of it, and if I were going on a date with someone I met online, I would do it, but I would not be obvious about it while on the date (as in remarking on something about him that I could only know if I had done some extensive research). I don't think the research itself is wrong, but it's rude, in that setting, to sit there and reel off all this information that you did not get directly from that person. I know it's the Information Age, and you have to acknowledge the possibility that everyone you date has researched you, but it's still uncomfortable to hear someone you barely know reciting random facts about you on a first date.
But I don't google men I have already met in person. If there was enough attraction for him to ask me out and for me to accept his invitation, then I'll do him the courtesy of asking HIM what I want to know. My instincts are pretty good, and my philosophy is that if I'm so unsure about you that I feel the need to investigate you on the Internet, then going on a date is most likely a giant waste of time for both of us.0 -
Don't worry Lorro, nobody is picking on you or anything.
Thanks Florian, you're sweet :flowerforyou:
Actually I didn't feel picked on at all. I was apologising because I'd been riled by your earlier post. My response was the closest you will ever see to a Lorro slap down :happy: My first thought on reading it was of the distress it may cause to women reading who may have been victims of assault. It's very likely some will be directly affected as it's so common. I thought you were trivialising the risks of dating for women, viewing their concerns as misguided and judging them negatively as a result. I am very easygoing and it's rare that anything written online will get my back up, nothing written about me ever would. But I do have an overprotective streak and I guess it showed here. Of course my interpretations are shaped by my experience of working with victims of assault, just as yours are informed by your life experience. Both are valid.I personally find it interesting to have a variety of opinion (whether I agree or disagree is a different issue) rather than a bunch of people nodding and agreeing. Gives me more material to process and reflect upon later.
Me too!"Perhaps we just have too much trust in humans?"I wouldn't say "too much" personally, I would say "Perhaps we just trust humans?" :laugh: because I still think (hope?) that, as a whole, humans are good - but taken individually, yeah, we are pathetic with our petty quarrels, ambitions, hate, betrayal...
Overall society is progressing (?). Although it's kinda hard to think that sometimes... :grumble:
I used to believe humans were good. Now I don't believe it's that simple. The majority are capable of both good and bad and which will come out depends on a myriad of factors. A minority are pure good or evil. I absolutely believe in the inherent goodness of people, in it's ability to heal and transcend the bad. However others become desensitised to their humanity and behave accordingly.0 -
As for online dating, I'm not sure I will express this well, but I'll have a go.
Carl got it spot on when he said it is all about context. If you meet a guy in a pub, there is no context to the meeting. You are a free agent. You have no relationship, feel no responsibility towards the outcome. If something strikes you as off, there is no problem walking away. You don't feel like you are rejecting the guy, you are not auditioning for partners, you are out having fun, unless you choose otherwise.
When you date online it is slightly different. Here are some of the added pitfalls, some of wich many (not all) women will be bothered about:
1) you have advertised yourself as looking for romance and the guy has responded on this basis. You'd be surprised at what some guys thinks this gives them licence to expect.
2) There is the context of a relationship, albeit a casual one - romantic hopes have been raised and the seeds of emotional intimacy planted. Some guys invest hugely (inappropriately) before you even meet. Emails, texts, phone calls and photos have been exchanged. Many (not all) women are raised to be nurturers, to put others needs before their own. Rejecting a guy in these circumstances is a much more difficult thing than doing so in a bar, it feels much more like you are rejecting them as a person. You see posts here all the time along the lines of, "I met this guy, I have a bad vibe, but I think I may be judging too harshly, should I meet him again". When you question, do they want to - they often don't, there is clearly no relationship potential to speak of. But they feel he has to prove himself dodgy before they feel entitled to reject, so they ignore the warning voice they would have paid attention to in the bar and they meet him again.
3) As others have said, the circumstances of meeting a virtual stranger are different to a friend of a friend or someone you know a bit from work or the gym. Informed decisions are made by having information and in the absence of much of it, people will use whatever is to hand eg. small signals of dishonesty or inconsistency. It may not be fair, but it's unrealistic not to expect people to assess risk. If a total stranger asked me out in a bar and I was interested, I would give him my number and ask him to call me. I'd speak to him on the phone first and google him before I met him again. It would be pretty much the same as if we met online, in other words. If it was an acquaintance or a friend of a friend, I doubt I'd feel the need to google and I'd be confident to arrange a meet up straight away as I'd have much better information to rely on - my own assessment of them based on my contact with them. If we'd been chatting for ages online/by phone and I felt I knew him well, I'd feel equally confident.
As for what you can find online, often nothing, but you'd be surprised. Contradictory info on different dating profiles, open facebook accounts revealing sexual innuendo with teens or a running commentry with friends of the girls they are chatting up online, misogyny, personality disorder. The full human condidtion!
Having said all this, most of the few guys met when online dating were lovely, but I make no apologies for being extra picky
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2) There is the context of a relationship, albeit a casual one - romantic hopes have been raised and the seeds of emotional intimacy planted. Some guys invest hugely (inappropriately) before you even meet. Emails, texts, phone calls and photos have been exchanged. Many (not all) women are raised to be nurturers, to put others needs before their own. Rejecting a guy in these circumstances is a much more difficult thing than doing so in a bar, it feels much more like you are rejecting them as a person. You see posts here all the time along the lines of, "I met this guy, I have a bad vibe, but I think I may be judging too harshly, should I meet him again". When you question, do they want to - they often don't, there is clearly no relationship potential to speak of. But they feel he has to prove himself dodgy before they feel entitled to reject, so they ignore the warning voice they would have paid attention to in the bar and they meet him again.
@Lorro- All your points are true, but this one really hit home. I'm always second guessing myself once I've had initial contact via extended email or phone call with a potential date from online. But the funny thing is that in real life I'm super intuitive when it comes to character and emotions and can read people like a book - and am almost always right.0 -
That's a cop-out for guys who don't want to deal with the fact that strong women tend to have higher standards.
That's how it appears to me, too.0 -
My instincts are pretty good, and my philosophy is that if I'm so unsure about you that I feel the need to investigate you on the Internet, then going on a date is most likely a giant waste of time for both of us.
I wish I had as good instincts as most of you on this site claim to have... if my instincts were that good, I'd have never married my ex in the first place. lol.0 -
My instincts are pretty good, and my philosophy is that if I'm so unsure about you that I feel the need to investigate you on the Internet, then going on a date is most likely a giant waste of time for both of us.
I wish I had as good instincts as most of you on this site claim to have... if my instincts were that good, I'd have never married my ex in the first place. lol.
Janie, I bet yours are better now! Mine are I was 18 when my ex and I met.
Edited to add, not that I regret my ex, we had many good years before things went bad0 -
My instincts are far from perfect but I can tell when a woman is bull****ting me and when they aren't physically interested in me.0
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I'm not afraid to admit some women intimidate me.
If a woman is strong, knows what she wants, and projects that, I'm not going to approach her. In my mind, she's more likely to reject me immediately. I also assume she'd be more likely to approach the men she's interested in, so the fact that I haven't gotten approached just means she's not interested in me.
That being said I have nothing against these women and actually like those qualities. I'm just too intimidated to strike up a conversation.
The short of it is, if you're a strong woman, be confident and approach men you're interested in. Don't wait for us to approach you, because some of us are cowards.
No offense to you since you're at least being honest, but this is not a good enough excuse for me. If you were really interested in a woman, your desire to be with her would overpower your fear of rejection. This is why I don't believe in the "men are intimidated by strong women" nonsense. That's a cop-out for guys who don't want to deal with the fact that strong women tend to have higher standards.
I think that's part of my point. Strong women have higher standards that (in my mind) I'm not going to live up to, so why even try?
I'm going to turn your statement back on you (no offense) and say the non-belief is just a cop-out for not wanting to ask out a guy.0 -
Definitely this. Strong women have got higher standards, so why even try! We can roughly evaluate our self worth, and the (perhaps unrealistic?) expectation that a person has of us.
I think that's part of my point. Strong women have higher standards that (in my mind) I'm not going to live up to, so why even try?
That's a cop-out for guys who don't want to deal with the fact that strong women tend to have higher standards.I'm not afraid to admit some women intimidate me.
If a woman is strong, knows what she wants, and projects that, I'm not going to approach her. In my mind, she's more likely to reject me immediately.
The short of it is, if you're a strong woman, be confident and approach men you're interested in. Don't wait for us to approach you, because some of us are cowards.
I'm going to turn your statement back on you (no offense) and say the non-belief is just a cop-out for not wanting to ask out a guy.0 -
I'm going to turn your statement back on you (no offense) and say the non-belief is just a cop-out for not wanting to ask out a guy.
I'll preface this by saying I was raised with very traditional views about male/female gender roles in relationships. I don't think women should be subservient to men, but I do believe men are natural leaders and that a man pursuing a woman is the natural order of things (i.e. I think this is biological and not societal, as we are so often told). More to the point, I'm not looking for a man who is afraid of me. The kind of man I am interested in would not want me to ask him out because he would consider it his responsibility (if he were interested).
Now, that doesn't mean I have no obligation to encourage him by making him aware that the interest is mutual. But if he knows that and isn't willing to ask me out, then clearly he is not interested ENOUGH and is, therefore, not the man I am looking for.Definitely this. Strong women have got higher standards, so why even try! We can roughly evaluate our self worth, and the (perhaps unrealistic?) expectation that a person has of us.
It's not about your self-worth. My standards have more to do with how I expect to be treated, not with how much money you make, your family background, etc. There is a lot of BS that an average woman will put up with just to have a man in her life; a "strong" woman is far less likely to tolerate it because she knows she deserves better and can find better. Guys who don't really want to put in the effort tend to steer clear of strong women and follow the path of least resistance. They just call it "being intimidated." I believe that grown men who are looking for a committed, adult relationship are actually the opposite of "intimidated" when they meet a strong woman. I think such a woman excites and challenges and inspires a real man to be better than he was before he met her. Strangely enough, that's also what a strong woman is looking for in a strong man.0 -
Yes... I'm going to be *That Chick* that necros an old thread. It's only 2 weeks old so it shouldn't stink TOO much, right?
Anyway, thought of this thread today when I heard a song on the radio that fit the topic.
Kenny Chesney - The Woman with You
"'Cause I'm gopherin', chaufferin', company chairman.
Coffee maker, copy repairman.
Anymore there ain't nothin' I swear man
that I don't do.
Been juggling, struggling, closing big deals.
Dancing backwards in high heels.
Just when it feels like I can't make it through.
It sure is nice to just be the woman with you."
Especially those of us in male-dominated, dog-eat-dog professional fields... we're fighting "the man" all day long. Would be nice to just come home and be taken care of once in a while.0 -
Especially those of us in male-dominated, dog-eat-dog professional fields... we're fighting "the man" all day long. Would be nice to just come home and be taken care of once in a while.
I know, right??!!0 -
I probably will frustrate everyone here again but once more am confused.
Every lady here talks about being strong and independent and how guys don`t like that (false) but also in other threads almost 100 % of the ladies posting say that in a relationship they want to feel protected and girly and in some sort of "traditional" female role.
Doesn`t this tend to reward the behavior everyone claims they don`t want?
Im an alpha female. I call the shots at both my jobs and I have tons of responsibility on my shoulders and make way too many decisions every day. I can take care of myself and have for 15 years, in many metropolitan cities around the United States. I have no familial support system, its just me.
I have absolutely no problem admitting that sometimes, I would love to come home to someone and hand over the reins, the decision making and the shot-calling and curl up in his arms and let time stand still for a minute. And an equal number of times I am feeling extra strong and he could come home looking for the same thing and Id be more than happy to give it to him.
I want the option to be held and to hold. No one should have to stand on their own and fend for themselves forever just because they are strong and independent. Then again, I am kind of old fashioned in lots of ways.0 -
I think you put it pretty good yoovie. I am not intimidated by women but I would prefer a smart strong confident intelligent woman. I am worth it and she will be as well. For me that woman who is strong and smart enough to do it on her own but chooses to be with me isn't intimidating it is immensely flattering. And I know I am more than smart and strong enough to do it on my own so she too should be happy to know that we both choose to be with each other because we want to not as a crutch.
And yeah I like being taken care of sometimes and I like being the caretaker as well.0 -
I probably will frustrate everyone here again but once more am confused.
Every lady here talks about being strong and independent and how guys don`t like that (false) but also in other threads almost 100 % of the ladies posting say that in a relationship they want to feel protected and girly and in some sort of "traditional" female role.
Doesn`t this tend to reward the behavior everyone claims they don`t want?
Im an alpha female. I call the shots at both my jobs and I have tons of responsibility on my shoulders and make way too many decisions every day. I can take care of myself and have for 15 years, in many metropolitan cities around the United States. I have no familial support system, its just me.
I have absolutely no problem admitting that sometimes, I would love to come home to someone and hand over the reins, the decision making and the shot-calling and curl up in his arms and let time stand still for a minute. And an equal number of times I am feeling extra strong and he could come home looking for the same thing and Id be more than happy to give it to him.
I want the option to be held and to hold. No one should have to stand on their own and fend for themselves forever just because they are strong and independent. Then again, I am kind of old fashioned in lots of ways.
I can`t imagine anyone could find fault with that and should just be second nature to want to do that for your partner. 0 -
I wish I had as good instincts as most of you on this site claim to have... if my instincts were that good, I'd have never married my ex in the first place. lol.
Janie, I bet yours are better now! Mine are I was 18 when my ex and I met.
Thanks :-) Mine are better, but an unfortunate side effect of being a physics geek is that sometimes you just can't pick up on "people stuff." I think that's part of why I'm often attracted to guys who are really "people persons" (opposites attract) and who end up being manipulators.0 -
Strong women have got higher standards, so why even try! We can roughly evaluate our self worth, and the (perhaps unrealistic?) expectation that a person has of us.
So, guys, what expectations do you feel a "strong women" has for you that a "not so strong" woman might not have?0 -
I probably will frustrate everyone here again but once more am confused.
Every lady here talks about being strong and independent and how guys don`t like that (false) but also in other threads almost 100 % of the ladies posting say that in a relationship they want to feel protected and girly and in some sort of "traditional" female role.
Doesn`t this tend to reward the behavior everyone claims they don`t want?
Im an alpha female. I call the shots at both my jobs and I have tons of responsibility on my shoulders and make way too many decisions every day. I can take care of myself and have for 15 years, in many metropolitan cities around the United States. I have no familial support system, its just me.
I have absolutely no problem admitting that sometimes, I would love to come home to someone and hand over the reins, the decision making and the shot-calling and curl up in his arms and let time stand still for a minute. And an equal number of times I am feeling extra strong and he could come home looking for the same thing and Id be more than happy to give it to him.
I want the option to be held and to hold. No one should have to stand on their own and fend for themselves forever just because they are strong and independent. Then again, I am kind of old fashioned in lots of ways.
Exactly this! You put this so eloquently. I think what most of us are looking for, in the end, is a partnership. Yes, we want to feel cherished and protected, but we're equally willing to cherish and protect right back - give and take. We may not be able to protect men physically, but we're usually pretty good at emotional protection and reinforcement (which is not to say that men aren't, just that in this respect, the 'traditional' model is often fairly accurate, with the male providing more physical security to the female who is typically less physically-strong, and the female enhancing the male's emotional security).Strong women have got higher standards, so why even try! We can roughly evaluate our self worth, and the (perhaps unrealistic?) expectation that a person has of us.So, guys, what expectations do you feel a "strong women" has for you that a "not so strong" woman might not have?
Please tell! I'd love to know too.0 -
Im an alpha female. I call the shots at both my jobs and I have tons of responsibility on my shoulders and make way too many decisions every day. I can take care of myself and have for 15 years, in many metropolitan cities around the United States. I have no familial support system, its just me.
I have absolutely no problem admitting that sometimes, I would love to come home to someone and hand over the reins, the decision making and the shot-calling and curl up in his arms and let time stand still for a minute. And an equal number of times I am feeling extra strong and he could come home looking for the same thing and Id be more than happy to give it to him.
I want the option to be held and to hold. No one should have to stand on their own and fend for themselves forever just because they are strong and independent. Then again, I am kind of old fashioned in lots of ways.
This is exactly how I feel about it. I get a thrill out of being good at my job and knowing that I can stand toe-to-toe with the men I work with, but when work is done, I don't want to wear the pants anymore, so to speak. It's not only nice but also necessary to be able to turn the femininity back on, to have a man who makes me feel safe and cherished and, yes, sexy and desirable.
At the same time, I am a nurturer. I want a man to know that when he has one of those days where he gets kicked in the proverbial balls repeatedly, he can come home, ditch the superhero costume, and know that he doesn't have to prove anything to me and that I will take care of him for a change.
I don't think any of that is incompatible with women expecting to be treated as equals in the workplace or having the same basic rights (voting, property ownership, etc.) as men. We can still acknowledge and even celebrate the fact that we are biologically hardwired with complementary "skills," e.g. men are providers and protectors, women are nurturers and caregivers, etc.0
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