Dinner date- who pays?
Replies
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He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.0 -
By law, the girl is not allowed to pay . .ever. .
ever!0 -
By law, the girl is not allowed to pay . .ever. .
ever!
Someone is winning brownie points with all the ladies!!!0 -
It's a shame that there are douche bags like that and I can't stand being put in the same basket, considering myself to be a genuine all round good guy.
One person's all-round-good guy is another person's bad date story.
As an example, I have a friend who is the ultimate gentleman, to the point where he always stands when a woman approaches or leaves the table. I find it extremely annoying since our dinner groups boast 6-7 women each time and most of us know half the town so we're always getting up to say hi to someone. He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
And, no, I'm not just saying this because you're asking in another thread if a woman you meet in the near future would be upset that you're already planning a trip with a hot girl 3-4 months from now. I wouldn't fault a guy for that (but I wouln't be exclusive with him either), but many girls I know would consider that douchy behavior.
I don't think there are any right or wrong answers here, just what works for your life.
sorry but i'd laugh if a guy did that or take his chair. doesn't he have any guy friends?0 -
He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.
You're not the one standing, why are you feeling awkward?
Unless you're one of those who just cares too much about what other people think about you...
Sounds like it. To each his own is correct. But don't hate on him b/c he's got manners and is polite. It's not a nice trait.0 -
He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.
Would it annoy you if he only stood once, or perhaps twice - as each woman arrived and was leaving? I agree that every time a female moves around seems a tad excessive, though very, very well mannered! I do think standing when a lady enters or leaves the room is a tradition that should be encouraged/revived where possible. I was at a dinner in a private members club a few weeks ago, and walked into the bar area to continue a conversation I'd started during the meal. Another group, exclusively male, was already in there, and without exception, every last one of them stood as I entered - it was profoundly flattering, and I felt both respected and appreciated. Sadly, they left before I did
Any man who stands as a lady arrives/leaves wins serious brownie points from me! This probably belongs over on the Chivalry thread, but the practice was once explained to me as a gesture of appreciation for being granted the privilege/honour of a lady's company, and historically, an indication that the men she was joining were gentlemen, and her trust/reputation would not be abused by joining them. I rather like that.0 -
ive been on two dinner dates with the same guy within a week and I offer to pay (i dont want to come across as a snob) and we just split the check in half (our meals are like a dollar different so really no big deal)0
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He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.
Would it annoy you if he only stood once, or perhaps twice - as each woman arrived and was leaving? I agree that every time a female moves around seems a tad excessive, though very, very well mannered! I do think standing when a lady enters or leaves the room is a tradition that should be encouraged/revived where possible. I was at a dinner in a private members club a few weeks ago, and walked into the bar area to continue a conversation I'd started during the meal. Another group, exclusively male, was already in there, and without exception, every last one of them stood as I entered - it was profoundly flattering, and I felt both respected and appreciated. Sadly, they left before I did
Any man who stands as a lady arrives/leaves wins serious brownie points from me! This probably belongs over on the Chivalry thread, but the practice was once explained to me as a gesture of appreciation for being granted the privilege/honour of a lady's company, and historically, an indication that the men she was joining were gentlemen, and her trust/reputation would not be abused by joining them. I rather like that.
I am certainly not in favor of being impolite but as a side note for accuracy those customs came from an era where women were considered possessions and not persons.
Be careful about romanticizing things outside of the context in which they existed.0 -
He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.
Would it annoy you if he only stood once, or perhaps twice - as each woman arrived and was leaving? I agree that every time a female moves around seems a tad excessive, though very, very well mannered! I do think standing when a lady enters or leaves the room is a tradition that should be encouraged/revived where possible. I was at a dinner in a private members club a few weeks ago, and walked into the bar area to continue a conversation I'd started during the meal. Another group, exclusively male, was already in there, and without exception, every last one of them stood as I entered - it was profoundly flattering, and I felt both respected and appreciated. Sadly, they left before I did
Any man who stands as a lady arrives/leaves wins serious brownie points from me! This probably belongs over on the Chivalry thread, but the practice was once explained to me as a gesture of appreciation for being granted the privilege/honour of a lady's company, and historically, an indication that the men she was joining were gentlemen, and her trust/reputation would not be abused by joining them. I rather like that.
I am certainly not in favor of being impolite but as a side note for accuracy those customs came from an era where women were considered possessions and not persons.
Be careful about romanticizing things outside of the context in which they existed.
I think this particular custom, while it does date from an era where women's status was problematic, is a gesture of respect for a woman as a person, rather than as a possession - an acknowledgement that she is independently making the choice to trust a man, a trust expressed by spending time with him, and a reassurance that her trust will not be abused because the man in question is, at least ostensibly, a gentleman. Certainly, the risk to a lady's reputation of spending time with a male is much less of an issue now, but trust is still a valuable commodity. I don't think I'm romanticising out of context at all - British/European society is still much more formal than American society is inclined to be, and standing for a lady is quite a common occurrence in some spheres, though the en masse 'stand' I described happens less frequently!0 -
He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.
Would it annoy you if he only stood once, or perhaps twice - as each woman arrived and was leaving? I agree that every time a female moves around seems a tad excessive, though very, very well mannered! I do think standing when a lady enters or leaves the room is a tradition that should be encouraged/revived where possible. I was at a dinner in a private members club a few weeks ago, and walked into the bar area to continue a conversation I'd started during the meal. Another group, exclusively male, was already in there, and without exception, every last one of them stood as I entered - it was profoundly flattering, and I felt both respected and appreciated. Sadly, they left before I did
Any man who stands as a lady arrives/leaves wins serious brownie points from me! This probably belongs over on the Chivalry thread, but the practice was once explained to me as a gesture of appreciation for being granted the privilege/honour of a lady's company, and historically, an indication that the men she was joining were gentlemen, and her trust/reputation would not be abused by joining them. I rather like that.
I am certainly not in favor of being impolite but as a side note for accuracy those customs came from an era where women were considered possessions and not persons.
Be careful about romanticizing things outside of the context in which they existed.
I think this particular custom, while it does date from an era where women's status was problematic, is a gesture of respect for a woman as a person, rather than as a possession - an acknowledgement that she is independently making the choice to trust a man, a trust expressed by spending time with him, and a reassurance that her trust will not be abused because the man in question is, at least ostensibly, a gentleman. Certainly, the risk to a lady's reputation of spending time with a male is much less of an issue now, but trust is still a valuable commodity. I don't think I'm romanticising out of context at all - British/European society is still much more formal than American society is inclined to be, and standing for a lady is quite a common occurrence in some spheres, though the en masse 'stand' I described happens less frequently!
Bear in mind as well that it was not customary or considered appropriate for a woman to normally enter or be in a room with men at the time either.
The her place is in the kitchen and bedroom mentality.
That was all I was pointing out,trying to interject what we want into a custom may ignore some elements of it not so pleasant.0 -
He spends half the meal standing. My friends find it gentlemanly and endearing. I find it annoying.
Hmmm, respect is annoying to you.
You're a tough one to figure out.
Really don't enjoy feeling awkward at Sunday dinner trying to eat with my friend standing over me half the time.. like I said, to each his own. Most of the girls at the table swoon over it. I wish he would have just dated one of them, stand for her, and let that be it.
Would it annoy you if he only stood once, or perhaps twice - as each woman arrived and was leaving? I agree that every time a female moves around seems a tad excessive, though very, very well mannered! I do think standing when a lady enters or leaves the room is a tradition that should be encouraged/revived where possible. I was at a dinner in a private members club a few weeks ago, and walked into the bar area to continue a conversation I'd started during the meal. Another group, exclusively male, was already in there, and without exception, every last one of them stood as I entered - it was profoundly flattering, and I felt both respected and appreciated. Sadly, they left before I did
Any man who stands as a lady arrives/leaves wins serious brownie points from me! This probably belongs over on the Chivalry thread, but the practice was once explained to me as a gesture of appreciation for being granted the privilege/honour of a lady's company, and historically, an indication that the men she was joining were gentlemen, and her trust/reputation would not be abused by joining them. I rather like that.
I am certainly not in favor of being impolite but as a side note for accuracy those customs came from an era where women were considered possessions and not persons.
Be careful about romanticizing things outside of the context in which they existed.
I think this particular custom, while it does date from an era where women's status was problematic, is a gesture of respect for a woman as a person, rather than as a possession - an acknowledgement that she is independently making the choice to trust a man, a trust expressed by spending time with him, and a reassurance that her trust will not be abused because the man in question is, at least ostensibly, a gentleman. Certainly, the risk to a lady's reputation of spending time with a male is much less of an issue now, but trust is still a valuable commodity. I don't think I'm romanticising out of context at all - British/European society is still much more formal than American society is inclined to be, and standing for a lady is quite a common occurrence in some spheres, though the en masse 'stand' I described happens less frequently!
Bear in mind as well that it was not customary or considered appropriate for a woman to normally enter or be in a room with men at the time either.
The her place is in the kitchen and bedroom mentality.
That was all I was pointing out,trying to interject what we want into a custom may ignore some elements of it not so pleasant.
Depends on your context - you wouldn't have found many upper-middle-class or upper-class ladies in the kitchen or, in that sense, in the bedroom either! Far more likely they'd be in the drawing room with the gentlemen, who would have stood as a lady entered and left the room, acknowledging that she was putting her trust in their good character by spending time with them. Men and women did interact at all levels of society, just under different rules and more formal structures than we do now. I do take the point you're trying to make, but I'm not sure that certain negative historical elements of a tradition are a good enough reason to jettison or reject all the good things about it in a contemporary setting, where the majority of the negatives are no longer applicable. A lot of the things we consider 'good manners', and not just in relation to gender relations, have not-entirely-laudable roots.0 -
I am certainly not in favor of being impolite but as a side note for accuracy those customs came from an era where women were considered possessions and not persons.
Be careful about romanticizing things outside of the context in which they existed.
- "at least ostensibly, a gentleman": I think you can also be a gentleman without being ostensible about it as well. I know most of the social expectations but I'll set my own limits to them, so that it doesn't become excessive (I would call standing every time a girl is entering the room extreme correctness, and would probably not do it).
- For me "politeness" with people goes in the way of "rawness" with people. I don't mind a bit of politeness, particularly with strangers, but when I want to know someone on a more personal level, I'd rather be "raw" with them, i.e. exposed, and have them expose themselves. For me politeness adds a layer of restraint and constraint to the communication, which is undesirable.0 -
I am certainly not in favor of being impolite but as a side note for accuracy those customs came from an era where women were considered possessions and not persons.
Be careful about romanticizing things outside of the context in which they existed.
- "at least ostensibly, a gentleman": I think you can also be a gentleman without being ostensible about it as well. I know most of the social expectations but I'll set my own limits to them, so that it doesn't become excessive (I would call standing every time a girl is entering the room extreme correctness, and would probably not do it).
Absolutely you can be, it's just that standing for a lady was considered one of the outward signs of a male's 'gentle' or polite upbringing, hence my use of the word 'ostensibly'. The appearance of a thing does not always accurately convey its' inner character, as we all know!- For me "politeness" with people goes in the way of "rawness" with people. I don't mind a bit of politeness, particularly with strangers, but when I want to know someone on a more personal level, I'd rather be "raw" with them, i.e. exposed, and have them expose themselves. For me politeness adds a layer of restraint and constraint to the communication, which is undesirable.
Sure, and I wouldn't argue with that. I guess it depends on your definition of politeness - for me it comes in two parts: courtesy and convention. I expect basic courtesy from everyone, and offer the same in return. With someone I know well or wish to know better, the restraint of convention may well go out the window, but the courtesy will remain - a concern for someone's comfort and well-being, rather than an imposed code of conduct.0 -
An interesting read...
http://www.bartleby.com/95/4.html
Listen,I am not knocking anyones desire to be considered a gentleman.
I was just pointing out that these customs did not arise from a lost and to be mourned era where women were treated with respect and dignity because they were not.
Women were expected to bow to a gentleman,a symbol of submission and subservience.
I am guessing that tradition won`t be highly thought of anymore.0 -
An interesting read...
http://www.bartleby.com/95/4.html
Listen,I am not knocking anyones desire to be considered a gentleman.
I was just pointing out that these customs did not arise from a lost and to be mourned era where women were treated with respect and dignity because they were not.
Women were expected to bow to a gentleman,a symbol of submission and subservience.
I am guessing that tradition won`t be highly thought of anymore.
Umm, or 'bow, as in 'incline the head and/or upper body in a gesture of acknowledgement' ? Bowing need not be servile, was a multi-gendered form of acknowledgement (men and women alike bowed to their own sex as well as the opposite), and provided a good alternative to hand-shaking, which was generally not for public greetings, and especially not for women in public. And don't forget that a lady always had the option of bowing or not (hence why she bows, or in modern times, offers her hand, first), depending on whether or not she wished to acknowledge the man - the ball, socially speaking, was entirely in her court in this regard in 'polite society' (See "The Cut Direct" further down your link - very interesting, btw!).
I think in many ways, women were "treated with respect and dignity" in previous eras - the lack of certain rights does not automatically infer a lack of respect in all areas. But that's a very long argument with no definitive answer - we seem to have got off-topic a bit - my apologies to all.0 -
You're not the one standing, why are you feeling awkward?
Unless you're one of those who just cares too much about what other people think about you...
Sounds like it. To each his own is correct. But don't hate on him b/c he's got manners and is polite. It's not a nice trait.
Since we're all being honest...lol... it annoyed me because I really liked the guy, he was one of very few guys who didn't return my interest (yes, I'm vain, I admit it) and it's really hard to flirt with someone who's standing half the meal I'm over it now, but I still wish he would just limit it to when they first arrive/leave and/or when he finally starts going out with someone.
Getting back on topic... this guy is also one of my platonic guy friends who always pays on a date, and often pays for those of us ladies who are just friends. He is single *only* because he wants to be. The women all adore him and wish he would date them.0 -
You're not the one standing, why are you feeling awkward?
Unless you're one of those who just cares too much about what other people think about you...
Sounds like it. To each his own is correct. But don't hate on him b/c he's got manners and is polite. It's not a nice trait.
Since we're all being honest...lol... it annoyed me because I really liked the guy, he was one of very few guys who didn't return my interest (yes, I'm vain, I admit it) and it's really hard to flirt with someone who's standing half the meal I'm over it now, but I still wish he would just limit it to when they first arrive/leave and/or when he finally starts going out with someone.
Getting back on topic... this guy is also one of my platonic guy friends who always pays on a date, and often pays for those of us ladies who are just friends. He is single *only* because he wants to be. The women all adore him and wish he would date them.
Aha! Totally understand your reasoning, then! As for the platonic guy who pays for 'friends' - I have one or two of those too (you replied to my comment about one in particular on the chivalry thread). Universally popular, and either taken or single by choice. Sigh.0 -
You're not the one standing, why are you feeling awkward?
Unless you're one of those who just cares too much about what other people think about you...
Sounds like it. To each his own is correct. But don't hate on him b/c he's got manners and is polite. It's not a nice trait.
Since we're all being honest...lol... it annoyed me because I really liked the guy, he was one of very few guys who didn't return my interest (yes, I'm vain, I admit it) and it's really hard to flirt with someone who's standing half the meal I'm over it now, but I still wish he would just limit it to when they first arrive/leave and/or when he finally starts going out with someone.
Getting back on topic... this guy is also one of my platonic guy friends who always pays on a date, and often pays for those of us ladies who are just friends. He is single *only* because he wants to be. The women all adore him and wish he would date them.
So in fact it wasn't b/c he was doing it, it's b/c he didn't like you back.0 -
I don't ask guys out ever so he'll pay at first... but if we're out having drinks I will offer to get a round or so. Later on if we start to date more often, I'd definately help out paying for dinner or events every now and then.
This.0 -
Maybe this is because the only boyfriend I've had was a cheap somebody and even if he did pay I ended up paying double that at some point somehow -- anyway, I believe in paying for myself. Not that I date. I've never really been on a "date" that I can recall. My boyfriend and I met on a state school trip so the first year was long distance and so by the time we were together at college we didn't "date" -- we were a couple. If there's a difference. So, if I were to date I would pay for myself. Maybe that's because I don't think it would make it to future dates. Who knows. At least he wouldn't be out of anything.0
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I just have a problem with the idea that a guy is going to try to avoid spending any money because of the possibility that it might not work out. More often than not, I would imagine, that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's the risk you take when you date someone you don't know very well (or at all). Besides, it's one dinner (or coffee or drinks or whatever). I could understand if we were talking about 20-year-old, starving college students. But a grown man with a job who is looking for a quality woman to date should become intimately familiar with the concept of generosity. And that doesn't always mean spending a lot of money (or any). But the courtesy of buying dinner for someone YOU invited to dinner is critical to that concept.
I do understand that differences of opinion have a lot to do with where we're from and what we've been taught. When I was 13, my dad took me to lunch one day, just the two of us. He did all of the things that a gentleman does for a lady, and he said to me "Don't ever date or marry a man who wouldn't treat you the way I would treat you." And that has been seared into my brain ever since. It's difficult, though, in a world full of women whose fathers did not raise them in a similar fashion. Now men are accustomed to dating women who don't think they are special, who expect to be treated like garbage, and who have no idea how to respond with grace and respect and gratitude when a man does treat them well.0 -
I just have a problem with the idea that a guy is going to try to avoid spending any money because of the possibility that it might not work out.
I agree too!0 -
As a guy I am also kind of surprised at how much ladies expect in proportion to how much they consider they need to participate.
The "well you get to go out with me" thing kind of comes off as being a bit full of themselves.
Really do think we all would do well to take an honest reflection of where we are at,what we want and what we consider basic courtesies that should be extended both ways.
Remember,unless you are old friends a guy probably knows very little about your likes or dislikes at the first date (kind of the point of dating) yet I see many ladies here writing as if he should know that and plan the date as they consider his responsibility accordingly.
Another question...a guy you have met a bit asks you out and also asks what you would like to do on the date.
Do you offer suggestions at all?
Get miffed because he didn`t pick up on a signal?
Assume he doesn`t care that much because if he did he would plan something great on his own?0 -
Another question...a guy you have met a bit asks you out and also asks what you would like to do on the date.
Do you offer suggestions at all?
Get miffed because he didn`t pick up on a signal?
Assume he doesn`t care that much because if he did he would plan something great on his own?
I wouldn't think any of those things, and I wouldn't have any problem coming up with a date plan together.0 -
Another question...a guy you have met a bit asks you out and also asks what you would like to do on the date.
Do you offer suggestions at all?
Get miffed because he didn`t pick up on a signal?
Assume he doesn`t care that much because if he did he would plan something great on his own?
I agree with you Carl, the expectation levels here and way beyond what I consider relative to the age of internet dating. I think its kinda different if you're meeting someone you know, someone who traditionally would pick you up from your home and 'take you out'. In this era sometimes guys and girls are planning 2 or 3 meets per week, and most of the time they are not even getting past the first drink before its decided that they're 'not for me'.
Anyway, in answer. I always chip in with a suggestion. Usually its just a pub. I dont feel a first date needs any more planning than that. With a stranger, you're only trying to establish if you have any chemistry/sparks/common ground between you. I always feel bad if a guy has to travel far to meet me, so I would usually suggest meeting up half way if there's a bit of distance involved.
I think someone said that this kind of meet up is more of a 'meet' than a 'date' so I guess there are two approaches that I would take.
Second date, once you know you like each other, then I would more consider the outing to be planned. But again, I wouldnt be miffed if I planned it. Dont get me wrong, its nice to be with an assertive guy, but most guys ask me what I'd like to do and make a couple of suggestions. That's perfect! However, he may not know my area or I may not know his. He has no idea what I like doing, or we might have already established we both like gigs or something........ Hmmm!! Actually too many anomolies to even give a straight answer....:laugh:
But in general, I dont expect the guy to be the leader in all things dating :flowerforyou:0 -
My thoughts are the same as many have already posted...if a man asks me out, then he pays. If we go out for a few drinks, I offer to pay for some of the rounds.If we've been out a few times and things seem to be going well then I either invite him over for a home-cooked meal or offer to take him out. So...he asks/he pays, and if I ask/I pay. I think a guy appreciates it when a lady takes the bull by the horns, so to speak, and plans an evening out for the two. I would never plan an evening out and expect the guy to pay.0
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As a guy I am also kind of surprised at how much ladies expect in proportion to how much they consider they need to participate.
The "well you get to go out with me" thing kind of comes off as being a bit full of themselves.
Really do think we all would do well to take an honest reflection of where we are at,what we want and what we consider basic courtesies that should be extended both ways.
Remember,unless you are old friends a guy probably knows very little about your likes or dislikes at the first date (kind of the point of dating) yet I see many ladies here writing as if he should know that and plan the date as they consider his responsibility accordingly.
Another question...a guy you have met a bit asks you out and also asks what you would like to do on the date.
Do you offer suggestions at all?
Get miffed because he didn`t pick up on a signal?
Assume he doesn`t care that much because if he did he would plan something great on his own?
A lot of women are "full of themselves," to the point that they think all they have to do is show up and that the man should be flattered that she is willing to spend a few hours of her precious time on him. The way I look at it, personally, is not really "I'm so wonderful, and you're lucky I said yes." It's more like, if you ask me out, then I assume that spending time with me is something you want to do, and if that's the case, what else do I need to do to make it worth your while, beyond giving you my full attention, keeping up my end of the conversation, and making a genuine effort to get to know you?
I am naturally a giving person, and I go out of my way to show a man that I appreciate his time and his efforts and the fact that he chose to be with me when he could've been with someone else. But I guess I view asking someone on a date as being basically the same thing as inviting someone to a party at your home. You are the host; it is your responsibility to attend to their needs and to make sure they have a good time. Their job is to show up, to be pleasant company, and to express their gratitude afterward.
So yes, if a guy asked me out and then expected me to decide what we should do, I would be a little irritated. The kind of man I would want to be in a relationship with would have put in the effort to come up with something on his own. He would've felt like that was his responsibility, not mine. I understand some women are incredibly selfish and difficult and would make you feel lousy if you dared to pick a restaurant or an activity that she didn't like. But that's not me. And I don't feel like I should have to settle for whatever ridiculously low standard was set by crappy women you've dated in the past.0 -
The "well you get to go out with me" thing kind of comes off as being a bit full of themselves.
And, actually, I’ve gone out with guys where it seriously didn’t matter WHAT we did… I just got intrinsic pleasure out of being around them. I guess those are the ones I keep as platonic friends when the romance doesn’t work out. The kind of man I want long term is one who I just plain enjoy *him* and *his presence* (and he, mine).Another question...a guy you have met a bit asks you out and also asks what you would like to do on the date.
Do you offer suggestions at all?
Get miffed because he didn`t pick up on a signal?
Assume he doesn`t care that much because if he did he would plan something great on his own?
I absolutely give an input if asked. And, since I don’t like traditionally date places (bars, clubs, movie theaters) I try to give hints or offer suggestions even if he’s not asking for inputs. This is tough for me, because I’ve been taught to let the man lead, but OTOH, I really, really hate is asking a date to leave somewhere because I don’t enjoy the atmosphere (but I will if it’s too smoky). Won't put a guy in that position if I don’t have to.0 -
Now men are accustomed to dating women who don't think they are special
You're not special, I'm not special, no man is special, no woman is special, nobody is special - initially.
Initially, we're just trying to assess whether we want to become special to each other or not. Initially, I've just noticed the person, so she might become special, but she sincerely is not.
It's like at a job interview, everyone should believe they bring something to the table: you, your skills; the employer, his money and structure.
Nobody is special, unless you consider yourself worthless (in what case, everyone who deign accept a date/job interview with you is special!).It's more like, if you ask me out, then I assume that spending time with me is something you want to do, and if that's the case, what else do I need to do to make it worth your while, beyond giving you my full attention, keeping up my end of the conversation, and making a genuine effort to get to know you?
The thing I *cannot* stand is that the only reason why men invite women is because "society said so".
So with a few intellectual shortcuts, you are saying that because "society said so", non special men have to cater for the needs of non special women.
Sorry, the pill is a bit difficult to swallow for me.So yes, if a guy asked me out and then expected me to decide what we should do0 -
I really think the whole thing gets back to a lack of communication and partly some of the inherent differences in how we view things as men and women.
What I see is ladies going from being asked out on a date from what has been until then a casual acquaintance to believing in their minds that the guy already has strong romantic feelings and thus should act as would be appropriate as if in an established relationship.
That very well may be the case but in the event that it isn`t be careful of pushing him away because of what you have predetermined his feelings are.
He is interested but probably not ready yet to put himself in a position for the sting of personal rejection (I get a sense that many ladies don`t like losing that power but that is a different subject for another time maybe) so is likely to be put off by obvious signs he didn`t measure up to unrealistic,preconceived expectations.0
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