Dinner date- who pays?
Replies
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Do any of you think that the area of the country (or being in a different country) or the age range of your dates plays a part in this too?
For example, I'm in my 30s and live in New England. I would never in a million years 'expect' a guy to pay for me on a first date. I always have enough money in my wallet to cover at least my share. Although, I have said before that if I offer to pay my part and he says no, then a simple thank you is enough, I don't want to insult him either.0 -
But... they aren't special! And certainly not more special than men.Now men are accustomed to dating women who don't think they are special
You're not special, I'm not special, no man is special, no woman is special, nobody is special - initially.
Initially, we're just trying to assess whether we want to become special to each other or not. Initially, I've just noticed the person, so she might become special, but she sincerely is not.
It's like at a job interview, everyone should believe they bring something to the table: you, your skills; the employer, his money and structure.
Nobody is special, unless you consider yourself worthless (in what case, everyone who deign accept a date/job interview with you is special!).
Do you really want an honest answer to this question lazy bum? Because as far as I can tell, your "inviter" must do the exact same things as you (yep, all the things above that come before the '?' the inviter does them, just replace "if you ask me out" by "if you accept my invitation").It's more like, if you ask me out, then I assume that spending time with me is something you want to do, and if that's the case, what else do I need to do to make it worth your while, beyond giving you my full attention, keeping up my end of the conversation, and making a genuine effort to get to know you?
The thing I *cannot* stand is that the only reason why men invite women is because "society said so".
So with a few intellectual shortcuts, you are saying that because "society said so", non special men have to cater for the needs of non special women.
Sorry, the pill is a bit difficult to swallow for me.
Different issue! I will plan the date if I invite, the girl plans if she invites. Inviting for me = I've got an idea of something we can do.So yes, if a guy asked me out and then expected me to decide what we should do
I never said men weren't special or that they don't deserve to be treated as such. Why is this a mututally exclusive concept? I absolutely do believe I am special, and I expect any man I'm on a date with to believe HE is special. I don't really care what anyone else thinks. It's not about the people at the next table or the people at work or on some Internet forum. It's about him and me.
I also do not believe it is society that dictates men ask women out. Biology says men are the pursuers and the aggressors. That manifests itself through our social customs. It's not like some great, all-knowing person decided one day that men should ask women out instead of the other way around and everyone just went "Sure, let's go with that."0 -
My kind of woman:
Intelligent, successful, well paying job. I don't want to have to take care of her; I want her to be able to take care of herself. If a woman wants a provider then that isn't going to be me. If you need a provider it probably means that you don't have the financial means to achieve the lifestyle that you're wanting in life and I'm not going to sacrifice everything I've worked for to give it to you. I don't care about being the breadwinner. I want us to be equals. I'm not going to expect her to do my laundry, do my dishes or anything else. I've been doing that for 32 years and don't need any help. Besides, since we're both successful we can just pay someone to do all of those things. If you want a nice pair of shoes then you should have a career to support that. I'd rather be with someone who has the ability to travel to nice places on a whim, not someone who expects me to cover all their expenses because society tells us it's the right thing to do or you were brought up that way. Be your own woman, I'll be my own man. Together we can take those successes and enjoy all the things that life has to offer.
I want to do things for a woman because I want to, not because it is expected. The same holds true on her end. Expectation over time breeds resentment. Ask yourself this ladies, what if the roles were reversed? What if a guy expected you to pay for everything? Would you like it? Paying to have their company and their presence and to make them feel special? Or would you rather to do it because you wanted to; because you care about that person and because you know they're going to appreciate rather than see the bill come and they look at it and slide it to you without a care in the world. I'm not on a pedestal, nor should you be.
The ironic thing these days, and yes I'll say it, is that some women feel entitled to be taken care of. Why don't people realize that the provider scenario is bred out of the woman being the caretaker of the house hold. Women didn't work. They stayed at home being the mother. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. It's what equaled the two. Now most women don't want that and I can appreciate that. But then these women still want the provider but they don't want to do anything else. Hell, most women these days can't even cook a pop tart. If I have children, we'll be equals. I work from home; I'll spend time with them and share the effort involved in raising them. I don't expect these things out of her because we're equals.0 -
I really think the whole thing gets back to a lack of communication and partly some of the inherent differences in how we view things as men and women.
What I see is ladies going from being asked out on a date from what has been until then a casual acquaintance to believing in their minds that the guy already has strong romantic feelings and thus should act as would be appropriate as if in an established relationship.
That very well may be the case but in the event that it isn`t be careful of pushing him away because of what you have predetermined his feelings are.
He is interested but probably not ready yet to put himself in a position for the sting of personal rejection (I get a sense that many ladies don`t like losing that power but that is a different subject for another time maybe) so is likely to be put off by obvious signs he didn`t measure up to unrealistic,preconceived expectations.
I don't expect any man to treat me like I'm his girlfriend just because he asked me out. But since when is being a gentleman reserved only for your girlfriend? If you don't treat me like I'm important to you before we get to the relationship stage, we'll never get there.
I just believe, as I've tried to make clear, that when you choose to ask someone on a date, you have certain responsibilities that the person you asked out does not have. If she asks you out, then the same goes for her.
Now, if you're not ready or willing to put forth the effort for a full-blown dinner date because you don't know the woman that well, then ask her out for coffee. You can be in and out in 15 or 20 minutes if it doesn't go well, and then you never have to see her again. But if you decide to call her again and ask her to dinner, I would hope you'd WANT to treat her like she's not still just some random girl you met at the supermarket, even if she's not officially your girlfriend yet.0 -
My kind of woman:
Intelligent, successful, well paying job. I don't want to have to take care of her; I want her to be able to take care of herself. If a woman wants a provider then that isn't going to be me. If you need a provider it probably means that you don't have the financial means to achieve the lifestyle that you're wanting in life and I'm not going to sacrifice everything I've worked for to give it to you. I don't care about being the breadwinner. I want us to be equals. I'm not going to expect her to do my laundry, do my dishes or anything else. I've been doing that for 32 years and don't need any help. Besides, since we're both successful we can just pay someone to do all of those things. If you want a nice pair of shoes then you should have a career to support that. I'd rather be with someone who has the ability to travel to nice places on a whim, not someone who expects me to cover all their expenses because society tells us it's the right thing to do or you were brought up that way. Be your own woman, I'll be my own man. Together we can take those successes and enjoy all the things that life has to offer.
I want to do things for a woman because I want to, not because it is expected. The same holds true on her end. Expectation over time breeds resentment. Ask yourself this ladies, what if the roles were reversed? What if a guy expected you to pay for everything? Would you like it? Paying to have their company and their presence and to make them feel special? Or would you rather to do it because you wanted to; because you care about that person and because you know they're going to appreciate rather than see the bill come and they look at it and slide it to you without a care in the world. I'm not on a pedestal, nor should you be.
The ironic thing these days, and yes I'll say it, is that some women feel entitled to be taken care of. Why don't people realize that the provider scenario is bred out of the woman being the caretaker of the house hold. Women didn't work. They stayed at home being the mother. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. It's what equaled the two. Now most women don't want that and I can appreciate that. But then these women still want the provider but they don't want to do anything else. Hell, most women these days can't even cook a pop tart. If I have children, we'll be equals. I work from home; I'll spend time with them and share the effort involved in raising them. I don't expect these things out of her because we're equals.
My kind of man :flowerforyou:
In fact, most relationships I've been in, I earn far more than him, so I guess being an equal would be a treat!! :laugh:0 -
Do any of you think that the area of the country (or being in a different country) or the age range of your dates plays a part in this too?
For example, I'm in my 30s and live in New England. I would never in a million years 'expect' a guy to pay for me on a first date. I always have enough money in my wallet to cover at least my share. Although, I have said before that if I offer to pay my part and he says no, then a simple thank you is enough, I don't want to insult him either.
I think you have a point there! I dont know any woman in my social circle that would expect a guy to pay, be original with the planning AND smell nice all that same time!! :laugh:
j/k
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I absolutely do believe I am special, and I expect any man I'm on a date with to believe HE is special.
Exactly! One unique person with special qualities seeking another unique person with special qualities...who knows he brings as much to the table as I do, not in a cocky way, but in a self-assured, confident way.Biology says men are the pursuers and the aggressors. That manifests itself through our social customs. It's not like some great, all-knowing person decided one day that men should ask women out instead of the other way around and everyone just went "Sure, let's go with that."
And...
<nervous looking around and wondering... if I be blunt again, will anyone still come to hear me teach Sunday School??... lol...>
... most women feel more romantic, more in the mood when they are pursued. It's no different from men feeling more in the mood around a more attractive woman.
Guys tell us not to be surprised when more men want us when we lose weight. So I don’t understand why guys keep acting surprised that taking a woman out is a turn on for many of us. Especially since we have so many guys saying they can't some, they're lonely, no one will go out with them. Um, my guy friends who are willing to do what makes a woman feel cherished don’t have trouble finding dates. Their biggest problem is having so many of us swoon for them that they get picky.0 -
I don't expect any man to treat me like I'm his girlfriend just because he asked me out. But since when is being a gentleman reserved only for your girlfriend? If you don't treat me like I'm important to you before we get to the relationship stage, we'll never get there.
That is kind of the point I am trying to make though.
Him treating her as important is her conception of what he should do without allowing for him to find his own ways and exhibit them.
Case in point that I mentioned yesterday (and either got missed or ignored) how does one say that paying shouldn`t matter to him but then in the next breath say but if he doesn`t he isn`t getting another chance.
That person has assigned an action or monetary value to her company and then has the gall to say he should be ashamed or is not a gentleman/decent person for doing the same.0 -
Intelligent, successful, well paying job.
All three of these things apply to me. As I said earlier in this thread, I have been living on my own and paying my own bills for 11 years, and I am pretty sure I have never dated a man who makes more money than I do. I do not feel entitled to be "taken care of," I have no interest in being anyone's housewife, and one of the bigger motivators for me in wanting to establish myself professionally before settling down was that I didn't want to wake up divorced in 10 years and have no idea how to provide for myself because I'd never had to do it.
That doesn't mean I don't have any reason to think that if a man asks me out on a date, he should pay. That's a completely different thing than "I want you to pay my rent and my car note and buy me shoes and jewelry and take me on expensive vacations." I've got that covered.0 -
I think j4nash brings up a good point. As a matter of fact, the reason I'm not seeing someone right now is precisely because I don't have the financial means to pay for a date, and I sure as hell am not looking for a "provider". That sort of thinking is pretty dated as far as I'm concerned, and I would never in a million years date someone who believes that a woman is meant to stay at home and let him make all the money.
Unfortunately, I think I've seen more than my fair share of terrible marriages precisely because of this concept. It seems that a lot of evangelical Christians (I'm talking about the churches I was raised in; please don't jump on me and say it's different in your church. I'm sure it probably is.) have this idea that as soon as a woman gets married, she stops working. I know several girls who were trained as nurses making decent money who stopped working as soon as they got married, and now they're completely miserable because the family never has enough money. Gee, I wonder why? Women who stay at home and don't have the proper mindset (e.g. the ability to keep themselves busy and industrious) end up being absolutely fatal to any good marriage.
I realize this is just about a dinner date, but in reality, girls, if we're not willing to pay for a date, why should a man think we'll be any different if the relationship progresses to marriage?0 -
My kind of woman:
Intelligent, successful, well paying job. I don't want to have to take care of her; I want her to be able to take care of herself. If a woman wants a provider then that isn't going to be me. If you need a provider it probably means that you don't have the financial means to achieve the lifestyle that you're wanting in life and I'm not going to sacrifice everything I've worked for to give it to you. I don't care about being the breadwinner. I want us to be equals. I'm not going to expect her to do my laundry, do my dishes or anything else. I've been doing that for 32 years and don't need any help. Besides, since we're both successful we can just pay someone to do all of those things. If you want a nice pair of shoes then you should have a career to support that. I'd rather be with someone who has the ability to travel to nice places on a whim, not someone who expects me to cover all their expenses because society tells us it's the right thing to do or you were brought up that way. Be your own woman, I'll be my own man. Together we can take those successes and enjoy all the things that life has to offer.
I want to do things for a woman because I want to, not because it is expected. The same holds true on her end. Expectation over time breeds resentment. Ask yourself this ladies, what if the roles were reversed? What if a guy expected you to pay for everything? Would you like it? Paying to have their company and their presence and to make them feel special? Or would you rather to do it because you wanted to; because you care about that person and because you know they're going to appreciate rather than see the bill come and they look at it and slide it to you without a care in the world. I'm not on a pedestal, nor should you be.
The ironic thing these days, and yes I'll say it, is that some women feel entitled to be taken care of. Why don't people realize that the provider scenario is bred out of the woman being the caretaker of the house hold. Women didn't work. They stayed at home being the mother. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. It's what equaled the two. Now most women don't want that and I can appreciate that. But then these women still want the provider but they don't want to do anything else. Hell, most women these days can't even cook a pop tart. If I have children, we'll be equals. I work from home; I'll spend time with them and share the effort involved in raising them. I don't expect these things out of her because we're equals.
This made me giddy because you are my type of guy! :flowerforyou:0 -
I don't expect any man to treat me like I'm his girlfriend just because he asked me out. But since when is being a gentleman reserved only for your girlfriend? If you don't treat me like I'm important to you before we get to the relationship stage, we'll never get there.
That is kind of the point I am trying to make though.
Him treating her as important is her conception of what he should do without allowing for him to find his own ways and exhibit them.
Case in point that I mentioned yesterday (and either got missed or ignored) how does one say that paying shouldn`t matter to him but then in the next breath say but if he doesn`t he isn`t getting another chance.
That person has assigned an action or monetary value to her company and then has the gall to say he should be ashamed or is not a gentleman/decent person for doing the same.
I'm not dictating HOW he should treat me as important, nor am I assigning a monetary value to my company. I don't care if the date doesn't cost a dime.
Paying for someone's meal when you ask them out is the courteous thing to do, whether someone is important to you or not, in my opinion. To not pay, when YOU extended the invitation, is rude. I don't invite my SISTER out for lunch without paying for her. I sure as hell would not ask a man to dinner without paying for his meal. It's not about man vs. woman. It's about who initiated it. I said in my very first post on this thread that if a woman asks a man to dinner, she should pay, and that once they've been out a few times, even if he's always the one who initiates, she needs to show her appreciation in some way, either by making him dinner, giving him a gift, or asking HIM out and letting him be the one who gets treated for the evening. I have done ALL of these things.0 -
My kind of woman:
Intelligent, successful, well paying job. I don't want to have to take care of her; I want her to be able to take care of herself. If a woman wants a provider then that isn't going to be me. If you need a provider it probably means that you don't have the financial means to achieve the lifestyle that you're wanting in life and I'm not going to sacrifice everything I've worked for to give it to you. I don't care about being the breadwinner. I want us to be equals. I'm not going to expect her to do my laundry, do my dishes or anything else. I've been doing that for 32 years and don't need any help. Besides, since we're both successful we can just pay someone to do all of those things. If you want a nice pair of shoes then you should have a career to support that. I'd rather be with someone who has the ability to travel to nice places on a whim, not someone who expects me to cover all their expenses because society tells us it's the right thing to do or you were brought up that way. Be your own woman, I'll be my own man. Together we can take those successes and enjoy all the things that life has to offer.
I want to do things for a woman because I want to, not because it is expected. The same holds true on her end. Expectation over time breeds resentment. Ask yourself this ladies, what if the roles were reversed? What if a guy expected you to pay for everything? Would you like it? Paying to have their company and their presence and to make them feel special? Or would you rather to do it because you wanted to; because you care about that person and because you know they're going to appreciate rather than see the bill come and they look at it and slide it to you without a care in the world. I'm not on a pedestal, nor should you be.
The ironic thing these days, and yes I'll say it, is that some women feel entitled to be taken care of. Why don't people realize that the provider scenario is bred out of the woman being the caretaker of the house hold. Women didn't work. They stayed at home being the mother. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. It's what equaled the two. Now most women don't want that and I can appreciate that. But then these women still want the provider but they don't want to do anything else. Hell, most women these days can't even cook a pop tart. If I have children, we'll be equals. I work from home; I'll spend time with them and share the effort involved in raising them. I don't expect these things out of her because we're equals.
Geez.....once again.........you need to clone yourself
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Do any of you think that the area of the country (or being in a different country) or the age range of your dates plays a part in this too?
For example, I'm in my 30s and live in New England. I would never in a million years 'expect' a guy to pay for me on a first date. I always have enough money in my wallet to cover at least my share. Although, I have said before that if I offer to pay my part and he says no, then a simple thank you is enough, I don't want to insult him either.
I think you have a point there! I dont know any woman in my social circle that would expect a guy to pay, be original with the planning AND smell nice all that same time!! :laugh:
j/k
Maybe it's just me, but I'm sensing that the females on this thread have very different perspectives depending on what area of the country they are from (at least in the US). I'm not criticizing, just making an observation here...0 -
Do any of you think that the area of the country (or being in a different country) or the age range of your dates plays a part in this too?
For example, I'm in my 30s and live in New England. I would never in a million years 'expect' a guy to pay for me on a first date. I always have enough money in my wallet to cover at least my share. Although, I have said before that if I offer to pay my part and he says no, then a simple thank you is enough, I don't want to insult him either.
I think you have a point there! I dont know any woman in my social circle that would expect a guy to pay, be original with the planning AND smell nice all that same time!! :laugh:
j/k
Maybe it's just me, but I'm sensing that the females on this thread have very different perspectives depending on what area of the country they are from (at least in the US). I'm not criticizing, just making an observation here...
I'm moving north!!0 -
Do any of you think that the area of the country (or being in a different country) or the age range of your dates plays a part in this too?
For example, I'm in my 30s and live in New England. I would never in a million years 'expect' a guy to pay for me on a first date. I always have enough money in my wallet to cover at least my share. Although, I have said before that if I offer to pay my part and he says no, then a simple thank you is enough, I don't want to insult him either.
I think you have a point there! I dont know any woman in my social circle that would expect a guy to pay, be original with the planning AND smell nice all that same time!! :laugh:
j/k
Maybe it's just me, but I'm sensing that the females on this thread have very different perspectives depending on what area of the country they are from (at least in the US). I'm not criticizing, just making an observation here...
I'm moving north!!
Please do, I've got extra room for you at my house
Plus, I CAN cook!0 -
I don't expect any man to treat me like I'm his girlfriend just because he asked me out. But since when is being a gentleman reserved only for your girlfriend? If you don't treat me like I'm important to you before we get to the relationship stage, we'll never get there.
That is kind of the point I am trying to make though.
Him treating her as important is her conception of what he should do without allowing for him to find his own ways and exhibit them.
Case in point that I mentioned yesterday (and either got missed or ignored) how does one say that paying shouldn`t matter to him but then in the next breath say but if he doesn`t he isn`t getting another chance.
That person has assigned an action or monetary value to her company and then has the gall to say he should be ashamed or is not a gentleman/decent person for doing the same.
I'm not dictating HOW he should treat me as important, nor am I assigning a monetary value to my company. I don't care if the date doesn't cost a dime.
Paying for someone's meal when you ask them out is the courteous thing to do, whether someone is important to you or not, in my opinion. To not pay, when YOU extended the invitation, is rude. I don't invite my SISTER out for lunch without paying for her. I sure as hell would not ask a man to dinner without paying for his meal. It's not about man vs. woman. It's about who initiated it. I said in my very first post on this thread that if a woman asks a man to dinner, she should pay, and that once they've been out a few times, even if he's always the one who initiates, she needs to show her appreciation in some way, either by making him dinner, giving him a gift, or asking HIM out and letting him be the one who gets treated for the evening. I have done ALL of these things.
I agree!0 -
in reality, girls, if we're not willing to pay for a date, why should a man think we'll be any different if the relationship progresses to marriage?
Um... who is expecting that to change after marriage? The whole point of dating is to find a guy you like the way he is, not one that has to change. That goes for the good things too, not just the bad stuff.
He will take me out... and I will dote on him in other ways that are meaningful to *him*
My ex was a jerk at times, but he was from the South and would be caught dead before he would be seen letting his wife pay for our time out. That's probably a cultural thing, not a "right/wrong" thing.
That said, I think that's great so many of you guys and gals who look at marriage as a 50% split... my experience is just way different from what you guys post here:
What I see from my friends (and my own experience) is that the relationship often boils down to the wife/girlfriend working both their job plus taking a greater responsibility for the home (if you post about how I'm wrong, please also tell me how long you've been married for, thanks). I’m realistic enough to expect this, and as a countermeasure, I expect my future mate to honor me in the little ways that mean something to me. Including treating me like a lady, at home AND in public.0 -
What I see from my friends (and my own experience) is that the relationship often boils down to the wife/girlfriend working both their job plus taking a greater responsibility for the home (if you post about how I'm wrong, please also tell me how long you've been married for, thanks). I’m realistic enough to expect this, and as a countermeasure, I expect my future mate to honor me in the little ways that mean something to me. Including treating me like a lady, at home AND in public.in reality, girls, if we're not willing to pay for a date, why should a man think we'll be any different if the relationship progresses to marriage?
3 years married, 5 years total.
I'll pay 200 dollars a month to have someone take care of the house and we split things. Perfect!0 -
The other thing I've noticed is the guys that feel the need to pay for everything are typically not the breadwinners in the relationship.0
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I know several girls who were trained as nurses making decent money who stopped working as soon as they got married.
This makes no sense to me. Nurses make good money. Your typical 25-27 year old nurse is making more money than most recent college graduate men who are about 25-27 with a Bachelor’s in Business. A Bachelor’s in Business is a decent degree, but the market is oversaturated with them, but at least there’s more demand for that degree in theory than the liberal arts degrees.
In most major cities today, childless women in their 20s are outearning men in their 20s. That’s a big part of the reason why there’s the discourse that there is. There’s a legit school of thought that why should men have to pay for many dates when they are being out earned by the other person.I just have a problem with the idea that a guy is going to try to avoid spending any money because of the possibility that it might not work out.
The vast majority of first dates are “one & donesâ€. If you’re a guy and you go on 7 first dates in a month, and 5 of them are “one & donesâ€, you’ve wasted money.
Then again, the title of this thread is “Dinner Dates-Who Pays?â€. A dinner date is not a first date, so at least if you’re on a dinner date, you should be past the point of wondering if this is a “one and doneâ€. I think the first date should either be drinks at a bar on a weeknight or some other recreational activity.
I end up being the payer on most of my dates and intentionally keep the first date inexpensive. A good second date is a dinner at a moderately priced restaurant with good ambiance (yes, these places exist!)
The best date together though is when someone cooks for the other person. Cooking a meal for two at someone’s place of residence is a way better date from a cost (because preparing a meal is usually less expensive than a restaurant plate) and atmosphere perspective.The other thing I've noticed is the guys that feel the need to pay for everything are typically not the breadwinners in the relationship.
I don't understand. Please explain more.0 -
The other thing I've noticed is the guys that feel the need to pay for everything are typically not the breadwinners in the relationship.
I don't understand. Please explain more.
The woman is the breadwinner, the man's ego is hurt, he feels the need to pay for everything to show that he can hold up his weight and be the supporter in the relationship.0 -
The other thing I've noticed is the guys that feel the need to pay for everything are typically not the breadwinners in the relationship.
I must be living in a weird world. The guy friends I'm talking about are all equivalent earners or make more than me (and I make more than most of the guys I go out with). In 3 years only 1 guy has ever asked me to pay my way. It totally blows my mind that in other parts of the country men will expect this. I will keep that in mind, though, since I'm moving next summer.0 -
Btw ladies,if you want a great meal let me be the one to make it...I consider myself an awesome cook. :smokin:0
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The other thing I've noticed is the guys that feel the need to pay for everything are typically not the breadwinners in the relationship.
I don't understand. Please explain more.
The woman is the breadwinner, the man's ego is hurt, he feels the need to pay for everything to show that he can hold up his weight and be the supporter in the relationship.
Makes sense. The woman is more often the breadwinner these days anyway, at least in younger couples. The breadwinner concept as a whole is somewhat questionable too.0 -
I just have a problem with the idea that a guy is going to try to avoid spending any money because of the possibility that it might not work out.
The vast majority of first dates are “one & donesâ€.
Actually, this is why I think both parties should try to avoid spending too much on the first couple dates.
(and since someone's gonna ask... if the man's paying how does the woman spend money on a date, lol: hair, new outfit, childcare, etc)0 -
I just have a problem with the idea that a guy is going to try to avoid spending any money because of the possibility that it might not work out.
The vast majority of first dates are “one & donesâ€.
Actually, this is why I think both parties should try to avoid spending too much on the first couple dates.
(and since someone's gonna ask... if the man's paying how does the woman spend money on a date, lol: hair, new outfit, childcare, etc)
haha, women use dates as an excuse to buy new outfits, hair has nothing to do with dates, i get a haircut regardless of if I'm dating or not. agree on the childcare part.0 -
I know several girls who were trained as nurses making decent money who stopped working as soon as they got married.
This makes no sense to me. Nurses make good money. Your typical 25-27 year old nurse is making more money than most recent college graduate men who are about 25-27 with a Bachelor’s in Business. A Bachelor’s in Business is a decent degree, but the market is oversaturated with them, but at least there’s more demand for that degree in theory than the liberal arts degrees.
In most major cities today, childless women in their 20s are outearning men in their 20s. That’s a big part of the reason why there’s the discourse that there is. There’s a legit school of thought that why should men have to pay for many dates when they are being out earned by the other person.
Exactly my point. In each case, the woman was making more than her husband, and in one case, her husband was in med school!!! Besides the fact that it was a complete waste of money to go to nursing school at all, I believe that expecting the man to be the main breadwinner is an outdated concept.
As a side note, Janie, I haven't been married, so you are the voice of experience here :flowerforyou: I may be idealistic, but a lot of what I feel stems from having been in circles that expect women to sit back and be taken care of. I can't tell you how many times in college people would say dumbass *kitten* like, "Oh, you're a voice major? How do you expect to live on that? Hmm, well, at least you're a girl, so you can get married". It drove me up the wall.
I believe in mutual respect. I feel that if each partner is respecting the other in what they do, then they will work together to promote a healthy, happy relationship. That, for me, includes being able to have the space to take care of myself as well as being supportive of him and vice versa.0 -
The other thing I've noticed is the guys that feel the need to pay for everything are typically not the breadwinners in the relationship.
(and I make more than most of the guys I go out with). In 3 years only 1 guy has ever asked me to pay my way.
That's my point I stated above 0 -
My kind of woman:
Intelligent, successful, well paying job. I don't want to have to take care of her; I want her to be able to take care of herself. If a woman wants a provider then that isn't going to be me. If you need a provider it probably means that you don't have the financial means to achieve the lifestyle that you're wanting in life and I'm not going to sacrifice everything I've worked for to give it to you. I don't care about being the breadwinner. I want us to be equals. I'm not going to expect her to do my laundry, do my dishes or anything else. I've been doing that for 32 years and don't need any help. Besides, since we're both successful we can just pay someone to do all of those things. If you want a nice pair of shoes then you should have a career to support that. I'd rather be with someone who has the ability to travel to nice places on a whim, not someone who expects me to cover all their expenses because society tells us it's the right thing to do or you were brought up that way. Be your own woman, I'll be my own man. Together we can take those successes and enjoy all the things that life has to offer.
I want to do things for a woman because I want to, not because it is expected. The same holds true on her end. Expectation over time breeds resentment. Ask yourself this ladies, what if the roles were reversed? What if a guy expected you to pay for everything? Would you like it? Paying to have their company and their presence and to make them feel special? Or would you rather to do it because you wanted to; because you care about that person and because you know they're going to appreciate rather than see the bill come and they look at it and slide it to you without a care in the world. I'm not on a pedestal, nor should you be.
The ironic thing these days, and yes I'll say it, is that some women feel entitled to be taken care of. Why don't people realize that the provider scenario is bred out of the woman being the caretaker of the house hold. Women didn't work. They stayed at home being the mother. Cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. It's what equaled the two. Now most women don't want that and I can appreciate that. But then these women still want the provider but they don't want to do anything else. Hell, most women these days can't even cook a pop tart. If I have children, we'll be equals. I work from home; I'll spend time with them and share the effort involved in raising them. I don't expect these things out of her because we're equals.
Can I just steal this and put it on my dating profile, it's much more succint and eloquent than I could have ever put it. lol0
