The mythical "ideal partner" (?)
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I think it's OK to have emotions and personality (and bleached teeth and especially pot roast). But, don't take your daily troubles out on your partner. That goes for men and women.
Yes, it is ok to have emotions and personality. Pot roast is good too. I'd like someone to cook me a pot roast.
Taking troubles out, diva-ish behaviors, unreturned calls/texts and a rude 'tude aren't the best things.
Agreed. As long as I can rant after a ****ty day at work until the subject changes0 -
I would love to get my teeth bleached....lol
Hey.. I'm all for being real (just try and stop me!), but I think the boys make a good point. Is there any chance that at the start of relationships particularly, we get a little too comfortable with the unburdening of our baggage and troubles, a little too soon?
Not sure...just asking. Maybe that's what girlfriends are for? Perhaps our romantic partner doesn't need to be the person we rant to all the time?0 -
Not sure...just asking. Maybe that's what girlfriends are for? Perhaps our romantic partner doesn't need to be the person we rant to all the time?
The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with. You get the good with the bad. Pretending like nothing is wrong when there clearly is creates a shiny veneer that will dull with time as frustration builds. Your partner should be someone that understands you, and having good and bad days is human. As long as you are respectful to your (wo)man and their desires (assuming their desires align with yours).0 -
I didn't have a chance to read all of the posts but I like the quote from This Means War. "Don't pick the better guy. Pick the guy that makes you the better woman." I think that can go both ways.0
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The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with.
That's a reasonable expectation. I think we all desire an arrangement like that.
Our same gender friends can cover a lot of the emotional aspects that a significant other can, but it's not always the same. There really is no substitute for the significant other.0 -
Hmm.. I wonder if romantic relationships can sustain this concept of an "ideal partner" and everything that goes with that.
Honestly, we women ask A LOT of men.
I don't particularly like the writing style...but the following article makes some very interesting (and in my mind true!) points.
http://www.sebastyne.net/featured/expectations-on-men/
Thoughts?0 -
What's the over/under on the amount of time it takes for me to be asked if I ghost write that blog? :laugh: :laugh:0 -
What's the over/under on the amount of time it takes for me to be asked if I ghost write that blog? :laugh: :laugh:
Ha ha ha.. this might be the funniest thing I've seen from you.. :flowerforyou:
It is actually written by a woman..so I'm waiting to be asked if I either ghost write it myself and/or when I'm getting together with either you or Mike... LOL
(sadly..no thigh gap, am out of contention.. reality hits hard..sniff..sniff)0 -
Hmm.. I wonder if romantic relationships can sustain this concept of an "ideal partner" and everything that goes with that.
Honestly, we women ask A LOT of men.
I don't particularly like the writing style...but the following article makes some very interesting (and in my mind true!) points.
http://www.sebastyne.net/featured/expectations-on-men/
Thoughts?
Unfortunately I see that mentality a lot and it breaks my heart. A lot of perfectly wonderful men end up with conniving *****es that emotionally *kitten* them over repeatedly. I saw this first hand with my mom and dad. While Mom was a good mom and I do love her, she was (and is) horrible to him. Even though my dad finally got his own place, he still loves her deeply. He still pays the bills and won't file for divorce because he doesn't want to leave the mother of his children destitute. He is so amazing a man and I grieve that he might never find the right woman for him, one that will respect him and adore him for who he is.
On that note, these guys really are bringing it upon themselves. At the point where, as you can see on this forum, there are a lot of wonderful single ladies, the ones that end up with the man are the ones that are superficial and hurtful - the women who care more about how they look than who they are. The type of women that "control the dating pool" as is touted by DM and Mike. It's the female version of "nice guys finish last". The nice guy is too busy checking out the vapid model instead of the intelligent engineer to notice that nice guys only finish last when it comes to b*tches.0 -
I would agree with what is implied that women are all about the "me, me, me".Hmm.. I wonder if romantic relationships can sustain this concept of an "ideal partner" and everything that goes with that.
Honestly, we women ask A LOT of men.
I don't particularly like the writing style...but the following article makes some very interesting (and in my mind true!) points.
http://www.sebastyne.net/featured/expectations-on-men/
Thoughts?
Women's needs are the ones that matter and they should be fulfilled regardless of the desires of men. End of discussion (I am talking about dating, relationships, expectations from life, family, etc.).
Most women assume (probably wrongly) that what they desire is what men desire too, and that their demands are not unreasonable and are how things should be. This is untrue sometimes... often...
It happens often that women's desires go against the natural grain for a man, against the natural needs of a man. This is equivalent to wanting to suppress the needs of a man.
So, yes, in general, I would think that women are more demanding and egocentric than men in "relationships" (in the broad sense).0 -
My ideal partner is Kitsune, but in male form... :drinker:
How YOU doin'?
:laugh:
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The ones that end up with the man are the ones that are superficial and hurtful - the women who care more about how they look than who they are. The type of women that "control the dating pool" as is touted by DM and Mike. It's the female version of "nice guys finish last". The nice guy is too busy checking out the vapid model instead of the intelligent engineer to notice that nice guys only finish last when it comes to b*tches.
The explanation for this is simple. The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women. Good looking women control the dating pool because they have what's most in demand. When you possess what is most demand, you get more leeway on behavior. However, most guys have a buckling point. The buckling point differs for guys. I don't tolerate much, but I try to be fair.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.
Kits,all he is saying I think is that women who are superficial about their appearence are often the ones who know they have shallow guys at their beck and call so play it up as much as they can to their advantage.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.
Kits,all he is saying I think is that women who are superficial about their appearence are often the ones who know they have shallow guys at their beck and call so play it up as much as they can to their advantage.
I'll take your word for it
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The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.
Kits,all he is saying I think is that women who are superficial about their appearence are often the ones who know they have shallow guys at their beck and call so play it up as much as they can to their advantage.
Carl has clarified my point. The women in question have all types of men at their beck and call, not just shallow ones.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.
That string of words= vomitorium But- in some cases (not all) I am afraid there could be some kind of unpleasant positive feedback loop.0 -
sorry but :laugh: @ the turn this thread has taken.
are women truly surprised still that guys will treat them differently when they (women) seem like they've taken extra special attention to how they visually present themselves?
i've definitely seen it happen in my personal life. at one of my old jobs we were pretty casual so i normally came to work with jeans and flip flops. on the rare occasions i'd wear a dress or skirt, the same male coworkers who'd pretty much ignore me would be holding doors open, offering to pick up my lunch, hanging around my cubicle to chit chat, etc. it was almost like they thought i was a brand new person :laugh:0 -
But, don't take your daily troubles out on your partner. That goes for men and women.
But why? Your partner is supposed to listen to you and support you. Are you supposed to be cheery 24/7? I get in the beginning stages of dating. But later on you can tell your partner your troubles and ask for advice and bounce ideas off them.The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with. You get the good with the bad. Pretending like nothing is wrong when there clearly is creates a shiny veneer that will dull with time as frustration builds. Your partner should be someone that understands you, and having good and bad days is human. As long as you are respectful to your (wo)man and their desires (assuming their desires align with yours).
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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But, don't take your daily troubles out on your partner. That goes for men and women.
But why? Your partner is supposed to listen to you and support you. Are you supposed to be cheery 24/7? I get in the beginning stages of dating. But later on you can tell your partner your troubles and ask for advice and bounce ideas off them.The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with. You get the good with the bad. Pretending like nothing is wrong when there clearly is creates a shiny veneer that will dull with time as frustration builds. Your partner should be someone that understands you, and having good and bad days is human. As long as you are respectful to your (wo)man and their desires (assuming their desires align with yours).
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When I am around people who are always negative or have tons of problems that they want to "share" with me, I tend to find more pleasant people to hang out with. If you have real troubles that you need help with or just someone to talk to, let me have it. If you had a stressful day at work and traffic was brutal on the way home, it's life. I don't need a 40 minute breakdown of everything that upset you in the course of the day.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.
Kits,all he is saying I think is that women who are superficial about their appearence are often the ones who know they have shallow guys at their beck and call so play it up as much as they can to their advantage.
Carl has clarified my point. The women in question have all types of men at their beck and call, not just shallow ones.
Really and it goes both ways,does anyone here think that "HOT" guys don`t know that they are and that they don`t do their best to take advantage of that and cultivate the image?
I could spend an hour in front of a mirror trying to make sure every last hair is in place but to do so is pointless,it won`t matter because of some other intrinsic things.
That is not self depracating but a simple fact of life.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.
Kits,all he is saying I think is that women who are superficial about their appearence are often the ones who know they have shallow guys at their beck and call so play it up as much as they can to their advantage.
Carl has clarified my point. The women in question have all types of men at their beck and call, not just shallow ones.
Really and it goes both ways,does anyone here think that "HOT" guys don`t know that they are and that they don`t do their best to take advantage of that and cultivate the image?
I could spend an hour in front of a mirror trying to make sure every last hair is in place but to do so is pointless,it won`t matter because of some other intrinsic things.
That is not self depracating but a simple fact of life.
It does go both ways because people regardless of sex are judged and included or excluded based on outward appearance all the time, but I think there's an argument that there's precedent to women being reduced to this kind of judgement alone a lot more often than men.
This sentence out of context:"The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women" is offensive because women are fed a line of bull**** from the womb about their value equaling their appearance, and there's something implied there that either inherently good looking women are the ones who care about their appearance, or that only women who care about manufacturing their appearance are the ones who end up to be good looking.
Anyway, I don't think the person that the quote is from is actually that invested- but I'll be damned if the hours of my life I won't get back reading crap like The Beauty Myth were in vain. End rant.0 -
I'm not sure about what exactly DM meant by this...The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
- The way I understand this is that the more effort you put into looks ("who care more") the better looking you are ("[become] usually good looking women"). I agree with this.
- I would disagree if DM meant ONLY "genetically/naturally good looking women" end up "good looking" (which is why I agree with the "blogger" from the other topic that 80% of female beauty is controllable).
- I would agree that "genetically/naturally good looking women" would probably naturally/by birth be more aware of the impact that beauty has on interactions, having experienced a positive feedback since a young age. So because they understand the importance of it, they will probably work on it.
So technically, the way I see it, it boils down to: the more effort you put into something, the better you are at it.
I agree that women are "reduced" to this kind of judgement alone a lot more often than men.It does go both ways because people regardless of sex are judged and included or excluded based on outward appearance all the time, but I think there's an argument that there's precedent to women being reduced to this kind of judgement alone a lot more often than men.
I assume you mean judged by men as well?
Two things:
- Technically, this makes it less hard (aka easier) for you to be attractive to men as men are overall less demanding than women (this was the point of the article that was brought by bridesmaid) assuming men are not trying to compensate by the the same total of points is not required by men and women (i.e. men don't want a perfect beauty 10/10 because women want a moderately intelligent 5/10 and moderately beautiful man 5/10).
- If you are a bit more pragmatic than idealistic, if you're going to a job interview for a maths teacher position, there is a clear set of requirements (knowledge of maths). Will you try to argue your case by saying that you are also good looking and that after all you're not a bad match for the position? Clearly you will be refused for this specific job. You just try to find a job more suitable for you.
Now I'm sure you see where this is going. If a man has specific requirements (looks), clearly this men doesn't have to accept you for other qualities.
The full reflection would go like this: we are shaped by our environment and society (change is slow), we are fed good looking women all the time, it is not a conscious choice for most "Western world" men to be attracted by good looking women (by Western world standards).
This whole paragraph would be summarized by: what can you do about it for now? Comply or die. It's unfair, but it's like that.
Remember there are two things:This sentence out of context:"The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women" is offensive because women are fed a line of bull**** from the womb about their value equaling their appearance
- Your intrinsic value ("real value"),
- Your perceived value (depends on the observer). Arguably nobody ever perceives you intrinsic value, as you are just an observer of yourself.
You can have a different intrinsic value from the value perceived by your peers (half of the battle of love is finding someone who values us for what we are).
How do you affect this perceived value? It depends on the stage at which you are, but a good way to improve this perceived value is by conforming to the "role model" standards of your society (yes, plainly put this means being perceived as "good looking" by others will increase your perceived value).0 -
But, don't take your daily troubles out on your partner. That goes for men and women.
But why? Your partner is supposed to listen to you and support you. Are you supposed to be cheery 24/7? I get in the beginning stages of dating. But later on you can tell your partner your troubles and ask for advice and bounce ideas off them.The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with. You get the good with the bad. Pretending like nothing is wrong when there clearly is creates a shiny veneer that will dull with time as frustration builds. Your partner should be someone that understands you, and having good and bad days is human. As long as you are respectful to your (wo)man and their desires (assuming their desires align with yours).
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When I am around people who are always negative or have tons of problems that they want to "share" with me, I tend to find more pleasant people to hang out with. If you have real troubles that you need help with or just someone to talk to, let me have it. If you had a stressful day at work and traffic was brutal on the way home, it's life. I don't need a 40 minute breakdown of everything that upset you in the course of the day.
Well yes but there is a difference between someone that is always negative or has a ton of problems and someone that needs to let off a little steam because they don't want what has been bothering them locked up inside.0 -
A simple solution is to have a three strikes rule here.But, don't take your daily troubles out on your partner. That goes for men and women.
But why? Your partner is supposed to listen to you and support you. Are you supposed to be cheery 24/7? I get in the beginning stages of dating. But later on you can tell your partner your troubles and ask for advice and bounce ideas off them.The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with. You get the good with the bad. Pretending like nothing is wrong when there clearly is creates a shiny veneer that will dull with time as frustration builds. Your partner should be someone that understands you, and having good and bad days is human. As long as you are respectful to your (wo)man and their desires (assuming their desires align with yours).
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When I am around people who are always negative or have tons of problems that they want to "share" with me, I tend to find more pleasant people to hang out with. If you have real troubles that you need help with or just someone to talk to, let me have it. If you had a stressful day at work and traffic was brutal on the way home, it's life. I don't need a 40 minute breakdown of everything that upset you in the course of the day.
Well yes but there is a difference between someone that is always negative or has a ton of problems and someone that needs to let off a little steam because they don't want what has been bothering them locked up inside.
If the woman complains about the same problem three times without having discussed a solution with me, listened to my suggestions and discussed/tried these suggestions, I will not listen to her afterwards. She is venting for the sake of venting.
(I'm saying woman in this case because they tend to talk about their problems whereas men tend to take some time aside to reflect on their problems).
After all my partner should be someone who understands me.0 -
and this is why i am perfectly content being alone.
it's "men" like this that i refuse to have ANYTHING to do with.
there can be initial attraction due to looks, but if it's ALL fake then you get that IT"S ALL FAKE!!! there isn't anything real there.
i would much rather look the way i do, and have someone be attracted to me for being me. KNOWING FULL WELL, that what you see is what you get. you will never be surprised in the morning, or if you stop by unexpected early on a saturday. there isn't a single thing on my body that is artificial, except parts of my hair color, LOL!
the guys here, that are soooooo focused on looks and the good looking and their impact on the dating pool and what they would tolerate from a good looking girl, etc. would not get the time of day from me. they wouldn't get a date or even an interaction. period. they would not be worth my time.The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
Do you even think about what you write? Or do you specifically try and say *kitten* like this to offend anyone that refuses to bow to the superficial standards you hold it such high esteem?
I'm not angry, I am just genuinely baffled by your severe lack of tact.0 -
But, don't take your daily troubles out on your partner. That goes for men and women.
But why? Your partner is supposed to listen to you and support you. Are you supposed to be cheery 24/7? I get in the beginning stages of dating. But later on you can tell your partner your troubles and ask for advice and bounce ideas off them.The way I see it, my partner will be my best friend that I have sex with. You get the good with the bad. Pretending like nothing is wrong when there clearly is creates a shiny veneer that will dull with time as frustration builds. Your partner should be someone that understands you, and having good and bad days is human. As long as you are respectful to your (wo)man and their desires (assuming their desires align with yours).
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When I am around people who are always negative or have tons of problems that they want to "share" with me, I tend to find more pleasant people to hang out with. If you have real troubles that you need help with or just someone to talk to, let me have it. If you had a stressful day at work and traffic was brutal on the way home, it's life. I don't need a 40 minute breakdown of everything that upset you in the course of the day.
Well yes but there is a difference between someone that is always negative or has a ton of problems and someone that needs to let off a little steam because they don't want what has been bothering them locked up inside.
My experience is that women are more likely to need to let off steam and have their feelings hurt and need reassurance. It's exhausting to deal with. If the standard is that you want to be treated like a best friend, I'd tell my best male friends to quit whining and fix the problem. Unfortunately if you tell a woman that, you get the silent treatment. Then you never hear the end of it.0 -
i have the three strikes rule too. it applies to most things in my life.
a valuable piece of advice i have read about from various male sources ( blogs, newsletters, books, etc) is that women make the mistake of treating men like they would a girl friend. and if you do it in the beginning you are shooting yourself in foot. men don't find that kind of talk interesting or attractive. before you are exclusive you should limit conversations that could be deemed negative, or complaining, or grippy, etc. that doesn't mean AFTER you are exclusive you can start to unload. you should still use your girl friends for most complaining, but guys won't be turned off as much after you're exclusive. they might offer suggestions on how to fix it though, so you need to be prepared for that.
A simple solution is to have a three strikes rule here.
If the woman complains about the same problem three times without having discussed a solution with me, listened to my suggestions and discussed/tried these suggestions, I will not listen to her afterwards. She is venting for the sake of venting.
(I'm saying woman in this case because they tend to talk about their problems whereas men tend to take some time aside to reflect on their problems).
After all my partner should be someone who understands me.0 -
I'm not sure about what exactly DM meant by this...The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
- The way I understand this is that the more effort you put into looks ("who care more") the better looking you are ("[become] usually good looking women"). I agree with this.
- I would disagree if DM meant ONLY "genetically/naturally good looking women" end up "good looking" (which is why I agree with the "blogger" from the other topic that 80% of female beauty is controllable).
- I would agree that "genetically/naturally good looking women" would probably naturally/by birth be more aware of the impact that beauty has on interactions, having experienced a positive feedback since a young age. So because they understand the importance of it, they will probably work on it.
So technically, the way I see it, it boils down to: the more effort you put into something, the better you are at it.
I think a lot of beauty is controllable. Being height-weight proportionate is controllable to a significant extent. One has to have the discipline to stick to a regimented caloric intake and exercise plan. Notice that female supermodels have flat stomachs. It's not superficial and shallow to watch your diet and exercise habits.
I'm good at tennis, but I didn't put enough effort into it to play on the ATP tour.0 -
The women who care more about how they look are usually good looking women.
I agree 100% with that statement. How could I not?
It's like saying people who care more about studying usually do better in school. Men who lift more weights usually have much bigger muscles. etc etc..
Not sure why everyone is so bent out of shape over simple comment.0
