TDEE & BMR: What they are and what to do with them
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I'm new and don't know what to do with my numbers.
I am 55 years old. I weigh 216. My BMR is 1640. My TDEE - 20% is 1800. I know that on days that I exercise I don't want my net calories to be under 1640. On days that I don't exercise, should I still only eat 1640 or do I eat 1800? Should I set my MFP calorie goal to 1800 or to 1640?
I'm so confused......
:frown:0 -
I'm new and don't know what to do with my numbers.
I am 55 years old. I weigh 216. My BMR is 1640. My TDEE - 20% is 1800. I know that on days that I exercise I don't want my net calories to be under 1640. On days that I don't exercise, should I still only eat 1640 or do I eat 1800? Should I set my MFP calorie goal to 1800 or to 1640?
I'm so confused......
:frown:
1800 daily.0 -
Thanks! Yes, my Katch BMR and RMR previously match for now. My Katch BMR calculated to 1579 and my RMR tested previously to 1580. I will reassess after Tuesday's retest.
In regard to HRM, I am using a new Polar HRM with the VO2Max test set up which I know to run every so often to keep it updated based on fitness.
So Katch BMR should be below test RMR if around the right amount, so if they came out the same, RMR was suppressed by about 150-250 calories, if the bodyfat % used for Katch BMR was within 5% correct.
So that will be interesting to see where it's at.
Also, was asking for comparison between Harris BMR and Katch BMR - because FitBit uses Harris BMR. And if that is to be your guide, gotta know if you can trust it.
http://www.gymgoal.com/dtools.html
I'll mention on that Polar test, only need to check every few months, unless you have a very specific HR zone aerobic training program, you aren't going to improve much past the 1 month big improvement.
Or every 10 lbs lost.
Now their FAQ mentions doing it the morning after a rest day, so while still in bed getting good resting HR is best. And after you input any lower weight. Because the figure should change with weight.0 -
I must have input numbers wrong for the Katch since I re-ran them this morning after seeing your post and must have looked at the Harris BMR calculator by accident.
Here is what I came up with:
Harris BMR is 1569
Katch BMR is 1729
tested RMR 1580
And, I suspect my FitBit would be more reliable if I remembered to wear it all the time ;-) I am not really relying on it 100% but plan to use it as an encouragement to make my rest days more productive than just sitting at the computer working - ie remember to get up and walk around, take the stairs, etc although I have the Zip which does not track stairs.
For what it is worth, I had been using a Bodymedia Link armband for the past several months and was surprised by the high calorie burns it was showing and now think it was way overestimating my calorie burn for my swim sessions after seeing where my HRM has my heart rate, but still was not eating nearly enough in comparison to the TDEE it showed each day. I had to stop wearing it because it was causing blisters and sores on my arm despite following the directions on cleaning, drying the skin, and wear time. It is not common for people to have this issue but I have very sensitive skin. After speaking with customer service for Body Media, they said it would probably be better for me to stop using it. I loved the info and maybe think that is why I am feeling lost at the moment. I have since sold it on Ebay and hope the new recipient has wonderful success with it.
Because I am having a hard time eating enough, I am cutting back on the intensity of my cardio workouts when I can so that my burn is not so high and won't need so much food as a result.
I definitely am interested to see what the tested RMR is going to be on Tuesday. I think I might have them do the body fat caliper test while we are at it.
Thanks for the info on the testing for the HRM. I did test it first thing in the morning after a rest day.0 -
I must have input numbers wrong for the Katch since I re-ran them this morning after seeing your post and must have looked at the Harris BMR calculator by accident.
Here is what I came up with:
Harris BMR is 1569
Katch BMR is 1729
tested RMR 1580
And, I suspect my FitBit would be more reliable if I remembered to wear it all the time ;-) I am not really relying on it 100% but plan to use it as an encouragement to make my rest days more productive than just sitting at the computer working - ie remember to get up and walk around, take the stairs, etc although I have the Zip which does not track stairs.
For what it is worth, I had been using a Bodymedia Link armband for the past several months and was surprised by the high calorie burns it was showing and now think it was way overestimating my calorie burn for my swim sessions after seeing where my HRM has my heart rate, but still was not eating nearly enough in comparison to the TDEE it showed each day. I had to stop wearing it because it was causing blisters and sores on my arm despite following the directions on cleaning, drying the skin, and wear time. It is not common for people to have this issue but I have very sensitive skin. After speaking with customer service for Body Media, they said it would probably be better for me to stop using it. I loved the info and maybe think that is why I am feeling lost at the moment. I have since sold it on Ebay and hope the new recipient has wonderful success with it.
Because I am having a hard time eating enough, I am cutting back on the intensity of my cardio workouts when I can so that my burn is not so high and won't need so much food as a result.
I definitely am interested to see what the tested RMR is going to be on Tuesday. I think I might have them do the body fat caliper test while we are at it.
Thanks for the info on the testing for the HRM. I did test it first thing in the morning after a rest day.
For sure get another BF% estimate, more 5% accurate methods used, the better the average of them all. Helps see where that Katch BMR and Cunningham RMR calculated would be, compared to your measured test result.
For the spreadsheet, confirm they do the 7-site Pollack method and give you the measurement results. You can then avg that in with the other measurement methods. If all these 5% methods are actually within 5% of each other, you got a good estimate.
For endurance cardio, you'll actually benefit from most sessions being in Aerobic HR zone, training the fat-burning system rather than carb-burning system at higher intensities. 1 good interval type workout each sport still not a bad idea though, perhaps put in the middle of workout.
HRM tab in the spreadsheet can help with some common advice, and HR zones.
So I can easily see that anything based on arm motion and steps would be very incorrect for swimming, easily inflated. In fact in a couple studies, the arm ergometer (hand bike) was very inflated, compared to spin being very deflated, compared to walking/jogging being much better.
So if you trust your current BF% estimate (even 5% off isn't going to change that much) it means you have more LBM than expected for someone your age,weight, height - excellent - great reason to keep it by not undereating.
Sadly if that RMR is anywhere close to last time, that LBM is operating at very slow metabolic rate compared to normals.
RMR should be higher than BMR.
So those BMR numbers means your FitBit is underestimating your daily burns by probably decent amount, depending on how much of your day is slow or non-moving. Probably a good half?
You can tweak the FitBit site so it's using the same BMR as Katch comes up with. As you establish some better non-exercise daily burn values.
Go back to that calculator link for BMR, remove the BF%, so it's showing you the Harris BMR results.
Now, adjust your height up taller until the BMR matches the Katch BMR of 1729. 160 calorie higher may mean you are maxing out the height, FitBit has maximum height it allows.
So now on the FitBit site, tweak your height to that taller amount. Now it's using a BMR more reflective of a better estimated BMR.
Because it can be very good estimate of especially your non-exercise days, if it's starting with correct foundation of best BMR estimate.0 -
I'm new to EMTWL and just di pd my figures here they are:
BMR 1355
TDEE 1863
Suggested calories 1584
Am I reading it right I put in that I want a 15% reduction...I'm kinda confused on what I should be eating?
I'm 5'2" and weigh 129 wanna lose the 9 lbs and haven't been losing despite working out and watching calories. I'm thinking its bc I haven't been eating enough....
Any help or suggestions would be great! Just need to know what my requirements are to loose.
Requirements are simply to eat less than you burn daily.
To make it successful and retain muscle mass, which is the way to make going into maintenance more successful, you want a reasonable deficit from best estimted TDEE. You want to eat enough protein. And you want to do strength training.
For you this close to goal weight, reasonable deficit is also 10% at this point.
Which means less margin for error to still see results. So be honest with TDEE, and logging your food.
Ok so I'm a little confused on how many hours a week I work out , I do anywhere from 30-60 min cardio 3/4 days and strength 2 days so do I do 1-3 hrs or 3-5 hrs?
Also do I aim for my TDEE or the deficit amount? And do I want to eat back my calories burned or just always shoot for the deficit amount regardless of workouts?0 -
Ok so I'm a little confused on how many hours a week I work out , I do anywhere from 30-60 min cardio 3/4 days and strength 2 days so do I do 1-3 hrs or 3-5 hrs?
Also do I aim for my TDEE or the deficit amount? And do I want to eat back my calories burned or just always shoot for the deficit amount regardless of workouts?
Take average of extremes. 0.75 hr x 3.5 days cardio & 2 days x ? hr strength.
If just slightly over 3 hrs, round down from Mod.
You aim for TDEE if goal is to maintain, because that's what TDEE means.
Your workouts are in the TDEE estimate, so already accounted for, you don't eat them back.
Or use the spreadsheet referenced in posts above to get this all down and it'll tell you everything.0 -
Ok so I'm a little confused on how many hours a week I work out , I do anywhere from 30-60 min cardio 3/4 days and strength 2 days so do I do 1-3 hrs or 3-5 hrs?
Also do I aim for my TDEE or the deficit amount? And do I want to eat back my calories burned or just always shoot for the deficit amount regardless of workouts?
Take average of extremes. 0.75 hr x 3.5 days cardio & 2 days x ? hr strength.
If just slightly over 3 hrs, round down from Mod.
You aim for TDEE if goal is to maintain, because that's what TDEE means.
Your workouts are in the TDEE estimate, so already accounted for, you don't eat them back.
Or use the spreadsheet referenced in posts above to get this all down and it'll tell you everything.
Thank you!
So if I want to loose shoot for that deficit amount? Even if I'm working out?0 -
Ok so I'm a little confused on how many hours a week I work out , I do anywhere from 30-60 min cardio 3/4 days and strength 2 days so do I do 1-3 hrs or 3-5 hrs?
Also do I aim for my TDEE or the deficit amount? And do I want to eat back my calories burned or just always shoot for the deficit amount regardless of workouts?
Take average of extremes. 0.75 hr x 3.5 days cardio & 2 days x ? hr strength.
If just slightly over 3 hrs, round down from Mod.
You aim for TDEE if goal is to maintain, because that's what TDEE means.
Your workouts are in the TDEE estimate, so already accounted for, you don't eat them back.
Or use the spreadsheet referenced in posts above to get this all down and it'll tell you everything.
Thank you!
So if I want to loose shoot for that deficit amount? Even if I'm working out?
You'll have to get this concept down which I fear you don't, or you can be error prone to not adjusting when you should, not realizing what can or can not be happening, ect, and that can lead to confusion and stopping a good thing for long term.
Reread the stickies if need be, don't speed read over them.
You must always eat at a deficit if you want to lose. A deficit of eating compared to what you burn in TOTAL. TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure.
Since that's rather difficult to do daily, you just estimated what the week will burn and averaged it back out to a daily average.
So your workout today has some of it eaten back every day of the week.
So if you included exercise in that estimate, then yes.
If you do more exercise than what was included - eat more, the whole workout burn.
If you do less - eat less, about 100 cal less that day.0 -
I think I get it now.
I have been doing this for 11 days now, just wondering what's the average time before your body actually gets used to you taking in more and you start loosing? I feel like I'm still gaining...0 -
Updated info:
My tested RMR is now 1960 (had been 1580 in October 2010) when I was recovering from shin splints and losing muscle mass and totally sedentary.
BF% is 39 (looking into scheduling one of those Bod Pod tests to get a very accurate measurement)
Now off to figure out how much my TDEE is supposed to be and how much I should be eating. I don't want to average in my exercise calories since they vary from week to week due to the triathlon training.0 -
Excellent progress. You get to eat more! And still be at deficit.0
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I think I get it now.
I have been doing this for 11 days now, just wondering what's the average time before your body actually gets used to you taking in more and you start loosing? I feel like I'm still gaining...
Depends on genetics, current stress, how long at big deficit, how long with suppressed metabolism, how long for it to raise to expected possible levels, how often yo-yo dieted, ect.
3-4 wks minimum with no change of exercise routine. Because that in itself would usually be asking for body improvements, which has little to do with weight loss.
But need to measure first too, as body is finally getting chance to make improvements even if not changing routine, likely lose fat gain LBM (though not likely muscle).0 -
Excellent progress. You get to eat more! And still be at deficit.
Thanks but now that I look at the numbers I am even more confused since I don't know which one to go with for calories to consume.
The more I read and videos I watch the more confused I get. As everyone else that comes here goes through, I am so afraid to eat too much.
I went through the spreadsheet which is where these numbers come from. Which do I use for the TDEE? What do I adjust MFP for calorie goals? As I said earlier, I want to use the lightly active factor and then add in calories burned when I burn them since they are not consistent from week to week depending on what my training plan calls for. Once I know my calorie goal then I will tackle how many of my exercise calories to eat that day.
Harris BMR is 1579
Katch BMR is 1591
Cunningham calculated RMR 1744
Actual RMR 1960
Thanks!0 -
Thanks but now that I look at the numbers I am even more confused since I don't know which one to go with for calories to consume.
The more I read and videos I watch the more confused I get. As everyone else that comes here goes through, I am so afraid to eat too much.
I went through the spreadsheet which is where these numbers come from. Which do I use for the TDEE? What do I adjust MFP for calorie goals? As I said earlier, I want to use the lightly active factor and then add in calories burned when I burn them since they are not consistent from week to week depending on what my training plan calls for. Once I know my calorie goal then I will tackle how many of my exercise calories to eat that day.
Harris BMR is 1579
Katch BMR is 1591
Cunningham calculated RMR 1744
Actual RMR 1960
Thanks!
Ah, true.
So you are on the MFP Tweak tab already, so right place to be to eat back your exercise.
Did you fill in the Simple Setup tab hopefully, including the Activity Calculator for work time, but leaving out exercise time?
If you have sedentary desk job, then you have no changes. If on your feet 5 hrs on workdays, 25 hrs on service trades line, ect.
Since you have a higher RMR, you'll have to adjust things.
1 - Go to the TDEE Deficit tab, top section where the BMR's are, and to the right - the Cunningham RMR and place to enter your tested RMR.
Now it tells you what BMR goes with that tested RMR.
And what BF% would cause that result.
2 - Take that BF% back to the Simple Setup tab, and put in in the cell for BF% to use. You can put your tested BF% in cell right above it for safe keeping, or on the Progress tab probably better.
Anway, now you have a Katch BMR figure that reflects your tested RMR.
3 - Back to the MFP Tweak tab.
Enter in the Katch BMR.
Enter in the BMR multiplier as shown if higher than 1.25.
There is your TDEE and Deficit and daily net goal. Instructions in green for what to change in MFP, and macros.
Area below that is for when you have exercise. Log the reported calorie burn and time. It'll tell you the amount to log and eat-back.
If you don't want to always be coming back to enter that info, suggest you enter in the normal avg calorie burn and time of several different workouts, there's space for a variety. Print that tab. Now you can just enter in the eat-back amount.0 -
Thanks but now that I look at the numbers I am even more confused since I don't know which one to go with for calories to consume.
The more I read and videos I watch the more confused I get. As everyone else that comes here goes through, I am so afraid to eat too much.
I went through the spreadsheet which is where these numbers come from. Which do I use for the TDEE? What do I adjust MFP for calorie goals? As I said earlier, I want to use the lightly active factor and then add in calories burned when I burn them since they are not consistent from week to week depending on what my training plan calls for. Once I know my calorie goal then I will tackle how many of my exercise calories to eat that day.
Harris BMR is 1579
Katch BMR is 1591
Cunningham calculated RMR 1744
Actual RMR 1960
Thanks!
Ah, true.
So you are on the MFP Tweak tab already, so right place to be to eat back your exercise.
Did you fill in the Simple Setup tab hopefully, including the Activity Calculator for work time, but leaving out exercise time?
If you have sedentary desk job, then you have no changes. If on your feet 5 hrs on workdays, 25 hrs on service trades line, ect.
Since you have a higher RMR, you'll have to adjust things.
1 - Go to the TDEE Deficit tab, top section where the BMR's are, and to the right - the Cunningham RMR and place to enter your tested RMR.
Now it tells you what BMR goes with that tested RMR.
And what BF% would cause that result.
2 - Take that BF% back to the Simple Setup tab, and put in in the cell for BF% to use. You can put your tested BF% in cell right above it for safe keeping, or on the Progress tab probably better.
Anway, now you have a Katch BMR figure that reflects your tested RMR.
3 - Back to the MFP Tweak tab.
Enter in the Katch BMR.
Enter in the BMR multiplier as shown if higher than 1.25.
There is your TDEE and Deficit and daily net goal. Instructions in green for what to change in MFP, and macros.
Area below that is for when you have exercise. Log the reported calorie burn and time. It'll tell you the amount to log and eat-back.
If you don't want to always be coming back to enter that info, suggest you enter in the normal avg calorie burn and time of several different workouts, there's space for a variety. Print that tab. Now you can just enter in the eat-back amount.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! Not confused anymore thanks to your wonderful response and help!0 -
:happy: Bump. Thanks!0
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After lots of reading and deliberating.. I am going with your initial advice HeyBales and eating at TDEE/maintenance in order to gain muscle and lose fat and see how it goes. My stats were as follows:
BMR: 1493
TDEE: 2053
Bodyfat: 26%
For about 2 months now, I have been eating at a deficit (1700), and doing heavy lifting, 3x a week for 45 minutes (none to very little cardio). I have not seen any changed in my body whatsoever! Many people are advising me to go down in calories or up my cardio. But if I do that, I am afraid that I will lose muscle. Others are advising me to alternate periods of bulking and cutting, because they say it is IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. But I am afraid to do that because I don't want to bulk haha (because you gain some fat too)! And cutting is too hard!
So I guess my question is - is it REALLY possible to gain muscle and lose fat AT THE SAME TIME by eating at TDEE, like Scooby calculator says? So many people say you cannot gain muscle if you don't eat at a surplus, and you can't lose fat unless you are eating at a deficit. Am I just going to be spinning my wheels if I eat at TDEE and try to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time?0 -
So I guess my question is - is it REALLY possible to gain muscle and lose fat AT THE SAME TIME by eating at TDEE, like Scooby calculator says? So many people say you cannot gain muscle if you don't eat at a surplus, and you can't lose fat unless you are eating at a deficit. Am I just going to be spinning my wheels if I eat at TDEE and try to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time?
Possible, and slow.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/778012-potential-muscle-gain-lifting-and-metabolism-improvement
Advantage in the study - males, you'll get slower response than this.
They didn't scan for muscle, just change in LBM, though some was undoubtedly muscle increase.
Trade of fat loss for LBM gain of 3.5 lbs in 16 weeks.
You can try to enhance things by eating in surplus when it matters most, and deficit when it matters most.
You can either shove most of the day's calories in to the 24 hrs post workout if afternoon/evening lifting.
Or if morning lifting, take 200-250 calories from the rest day and add it to the lifting day. Still make breakfast & lunch the bigger meals on rest day since during repair time.
Also be aware that progress is much slower and takes hitting everything just right when you've already been doing it for awhile.0 -
So I guess my question is - is it REALLY possible to gain muscle and lose fat AT THE SAME TIME by eating at TDEE, like Scooby calculator says? So many people say you cannot gain muscle if you don't eat at a surplus, and you can't lose fat unless you are eating at a deficit. Am I just going to be spinning my wheels if I eat at TDEE and try to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time?
You can either shove most of the day's calories in to the 24 hrs post workout if afternoon/evening lifting.
Or if morning lifting, take 200-250 calories from the rest day and add it to the lifting day. Still make breakfast & lunch the bigger meals on rest day since during repair time.
Also be aware that progress is much slower and takes hitting everything just right when you've already been doing it for awhile.
Ok thanks! So if I am lifting in the mornings, eat 2000 on that day, and 1800 on rest days?
Or 2200 on lift days, and 1800 on rest days? That would be taking 200 off the rest day and giving it to the lift day. I would be eating at surplus on that day but at maintenance overall.0
