Laurie:

-low(er) carbs during weight loss both during total calories or deliberately = glycogen down
-high(er) activity or exercise during weight loss = glycogen down, though it gets replenished with carbs
-"watching" food/what's eaten and preparing own = much less sodium than normal especially when dealing with take out / commercial food or prepared items
-more food in digestive track when eating at maintenance as compared to at a deficit

Can all this add up? Absolutely.

Exactly how much? Depends on too many conditions. And your own observations are the best guide. In my case 1lb is trivially common, 2-3lbs happens, 5lbs has been very rare. Based on past posts by Novus, I would expect his numbers to be double or triple, if not quadruple mine. And we're both guys without girl monthly cooties to throw in the mix!

Glycogen AVERAGE is about 580g (range 300-700 in muscle and 0-160 in liver, source some ncbi article that popped up on search).... so about 2kg, or 4.5lbs on average from zero to hero, though it definitely obviously varies per person.

Most people on deficit but not on keto would be getting some of that effect; but not too much I would think. People on keto or low carb substantially more.

Sodium (hidden or overt), alcohol, exercise... random cadbury bars on sale (bad PAV)... all play a role

If you're "all good" eat EARLY, relatively low carb, go for a nice long walk (but not too vigorous), and weight yourself in the morning... you're likely at a diet low. Eat pizza or a nice noodle package soup or Tim's chili at midnight, throw in a bunch of veggies for some bulk, and wash it all down with some Cadbury's or gelato or apple juice... even if you're within your calories... chances are good you're up on the scale in the early morning!

PAV8888 wrote: »

Laurie:

-low(er) carbs during weight loss both during total calories or deliberately = glycogen down
-high(er) activity or exercise during weight loss = glycogen down, though it gets replenished with carbs
-"watching" food/what's eaten and preparing own = much less sodium than normal especially when dealing with take out / commercial food or prepared items
-more food in digestive track when eating at maintenance as compared to at a deficit

Can all this add up? Absolutely.

Exactly how much? Depends on too many conditions. And your own observations are the best guide. In my case 1lb is trivially common, 2-3lbs happens, 5lbs has been very rare. Based on past posts by Novus, I would expect his numbers to be double or triple, if not quadruple mine. And we're both guys without girl monthly cooties to throw in the mix!

Glycogen AVERAGE is about 580g (range 300-700 in muscle and 0-160 in liver, source some ncbi article that popped up on search).... so about 2kg, or 4.5lbs on average from zero to hero, though it definitely obviously varies per person.

Most people on deficit but not on keto would be getting some of that effect; but not too much I would think. People on keto or low carb substantially more.

Sodium (hidden or overt), alcohol, exercise... random cadbury bars on sale (bad PAV)... all play a role

If you're "all good" eat EARLY, relatively low carb, go for a nice long walk (but not too vigorous), and weight yourself in the morning... you're likely at a diet low. Eat pizza or a nice noodle package soup or Tim's chili at midnight, throw in a bunch of veggies for some bulk, and wash it all down with some Cadbury's or gelato or apple juice... even if you're within your calories... chances are good you're up on the scale in the early morning!

All that makes sense but it's still a bummer! I've cycled 160 km in 6 days, walked a further 50km.....my weight should be dropping like Garfield in freefall if there was any justice in the world! Now I feel like eating 5 MORE slices of pizza out of sheer bloodyminded frustration! Instead I've eaten my rainbow veggies and chugged my water and reminded myself that slow and steady wins the race...

Cauliflower does not a pizza make.

Sigh, I know it's trend that's important...does that mean I have to stop sulking? I'm quite enjoying my pity party!

Kale x2 - I love it! You okay, PAV? Kale and cottage cheese!!!!

The glycogen system still feels like a mystery - I think there are extra secret things that effect it. Honestly do - though I was kind of joking. Heat seems to. But I swear I'm thinking like where the moon is at or how many bees are in the garden that morning? I'm mostly past the monthly cooties - but I think the body still remembers and throws some extra water retention into the mix just for the hell of it - but that would be in addition to glycogen stores?

Anywhich way, tonight I had a bit more sodium and a mini blast of refined carbs. Son came for dinner. So nice. Just him because his wife and son (the Boy) are away still. So rarely do I get to actually speak with him because he tends to be the quietest of the trio so only gets the rare word in.

Didn't go crazy - but picked up some falafel from the local Lebanese place, made hummus and made a few different "dressed" salads (gotta make sure the lad will come back again ), a few cheeses, a mojito (mojito flavoured chicken Connie??? that is a bit crazy!??) and the ridiculously delicious frozen tiramisu cups that just appear at my local grocery store now and again - not bad, only 230 calories - the whole dinner didn't add up to anything really crazy, but I've been on a really tight regime the last two weeks so I imagine there will be some kind of scale hell to pay tomorrow.

So worth it though

The more I read about glycogen stores - it seems that it is a really good thing - but from what I've read I also don't think it is possible to keep them while losing fat? Because your body will use up all the glycogen before it will burn fat? Or did I miss something?

Something to think about while waiting for the scale number to drop

Maybe it was Moroccan seasoned….I didn’t eat the skin anyway lol….but it was good….John and I ate the entire chicken but it wasn’t very big….tasted really good…..I had to go to 3 grocery stores today and with the weather so hot, I was exhausted…..one more trip in the morning and I am done for a few days!….baking blueberry coffee cake or muffins tomorrow for the rest of the bunch and a trip to the pool…burgers for dinner thurs. nite….

I follow.

But the ebbs and flow of the glycogen stores and plain old "between the cells" water is hard on the spirit.

I've spent the last 8 months trying to navigate this territory and haven't made any real progress. The next step seems to be to get out of this "moderate" deficit plan (loosely aiming for the 1600 a day calorie range) and back to the level where I was actively losing weight (1200ish a day) to get out of this rollercoaster groove. Both of those "plans" included occasional days of maintenance level eating - big eating life days happen and I welcome those days.

A consistent drop in weight (and I don't mean every day - but at least a consistent downward trend because even my trendweight graph has taken on rollercoaster curves) fueled my determination to stay on track. It seemed to even silence the squeaky wheel hamsters a bit. Perhaps it will again.

Otherwise, the question is creeping into my mind, "have I reached my final weight." Because these past eight months of unsuccessfully battling to achieve weight loss have been really stressful. If I had been aiming for maintenance it they would have been a success and not have felt so much like a losing battle most days.

But, I'm not quite ready to accept this as my final weight yet.

So I'm looking to find the "chainsaw weight loss freeway" on-ramp. And when I find it, I know I have to mostly stay in the left lane until I reach my destination. Rest stops are okay. I will grudgingly accept any detours that come up. But I have to give up on sightseeing excursions for the next few months if I really want to achieve my "let's see if losing more of my subcutaneous fat will help to tighten up my skin" goal weight of 150.

Where is that ramp????????

Thank goodness the stores are open again - cause momma's going to need some new jeans when the mercury finally drops!

An 1,800 calorie day today because I cycled 20+ kms and walked for 90 mins.

So my day unfolded as follows:

Breakfast: The usual - 70g multigrain toast with 20 Pip and Nut Peanut Butter and 2 mugs builder's tea
Elevensies: Half a small bakewell tart
Lunch: Small portion of homemade pasta bake (homemade tomato sauce, mozzarella, spianata calabrese, cherry tomatoes) with a rainbow mixed salad
Mid-afternoon (pre-ride): A banana
Dinner: Homemade beef chilli and basmati rice
Snack: 30g roasted & salted split yellow peas; two dates

Yummy.

cat fish for the cats shrimp for the win!

I gnawed on a corn on the cob from yesterday while thinking about boiling water (153g! I cut off some 74g fresh onions in a pyrex while boiling the water. I added some garlic powder (4g). Grabbed the pack of shin lite noodle soup... put it down and opened the pack of Betty Crocker Garlic Mash!

Poured water over the onions... added potato flakes 108.5g.... vigorously stirred. Added 100g of Oikos 0% Greek.... nuked for 1 minute... oh yummies for the tummies!!!!!

<burp> (trying to make it sound as exciting as all of you make everything sound... but I think it's not working!!!)

Laurie if it had been chili, would you have added it anyway?….ok here is another fun food fact from Connies kitchen:…. When I fix my plate and johns for dinner ( yes, I plate his food because he is moving so slow it is easier to just do it for him)… I arrange our food exactly the same on the plates except his portions might be larger….I also have a 24 piece set of Fiesta Ware ( I had 12 but inherited my moms ) and I have never eaten off of the yellow or green plates!….food just looks icky on green or yellow….the service has a yellow,green, and blue serving bowl….I use the yellow one for peas….the green for corn and the blue for mashed potatoes!….I think I am losing it!

Oh, I don't let my cats have any of the human food. I don't say that if you put your plate on the couch and walked away for 20 minutes someone might not give it a try, but they know we don't feed them from the table or the counter, so they just leave us alone, and it's much better that way. I've had cats who begged and cats who would steal the meat out of your sandwich if you took your hand off it long enough to have a drink. (Funny thing was, she'd never gone hungry a day in her life....she was just...very food-motivated.) We have a funny story about that one and oranges.

I plate our family's food too, because usually we don't eat at the table. Boyfriend has a bad back and so normally he eats in his recliner, and we all tend to eat at our computers. And with my chronic pain, there's really no reason to make extra dishes. And I don't make extra food, either. My portioning's pretty tight. I got in that habit when I was poor, and it's still good sense now.

So last night I did try the sugar free Jell-O added to 0% Greek. Used half a box 5g and about 225g tap water. To a 500g partial yogurt.

Wasn't willing to wait, so used the freezer. Orange is probably not the best choice for me though it wasn't terrible. It did become fluffy creamy moose like.

Not a great success but will attempt again with other flavors and maybe some patience

Salad,small ribeyes,roasted potatoes…..that’s dinner tonight….

My yogurt concoction today:
85g 0% plain Greek yogurt
6g pbfit
4g pure maple syrup
Dash of cinnamon

Tasty and clocked in around 85 calories.

Your salad needs help! ... Maybe some extra salad!!!

I am amazed at the small quantities of yogurt you guys consume.... I tend to operate on... tubs... you know... 650 to 750g. with a range of half a tub to max two tubs