Share Your Day
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Help me out: describe to me what "happens". OK: you resolve to do… blah blah in the morning. But then what happens by noon? I mean you probably do NOT, all of a sudden, resolve not to care! So. Do you over-eat at lunch and then give up and say that you will start tomorrow? Do you get busy and instead of preparing your food you order take out or go out to a restaurant? Are you trying to go from zero to hero? Is there something else that happens that interrupts the process, and even more importantly, stops you from trying to re-engage during the rest of your day?
@PAV8888 As I know you're asking from a genuine desire to understand, I'll do my best to explain something that I really don't understand myself.
Firstly, you need to understand that I never lose sight of what I should be doing, and never lack awareness either of my expanding waistline or of my decreasing activity and fitness levels. My eyes are wide open to the situation, I recognise and lament the damage I'm doing (even as I'm doing it) and I know that when I finally get back on the wagon (which, despite everything, I still trust that some day I will) I will bitterly regret having let myself get so badly out of control.
Nevertheless, this heightened awareness goes hand-in-hand with a complete suspension of self-governance and a detached, almost clinical self-sabotage. I feel and act as if I'm sleepwalking or being controlled by some outside agency, even while I'm bemoaning my tight clothes and growing spare tyre. I will literally poke my spare tyre ruefully with the finger of my left hand as I eat a doughnut with the right hand.
The intelligence, knowledge, tools, self-discipline and self-awareness that serve me so well in all other aspects of my life (and in my weight control when all is going well and I'm in 'the zone') desert me completely when I'm in this somnambulist condition. Lack of knowledge isn't the problem. Lack of the wherewithal to implement that knowledge isn't the problem. I have the time, money and knowledge to eat a healthy diet and get the optimal amount of exercise. I just choose not to.
Though choose probably isn't the right word. I'm not choosing, exactly. Or at least not fully. The rational part of my mind is shouting warnings and exhortations, but it's as if I'm being willfully deaf. Rational me shouts 'Put down the doughnut!' and benumbed, defiant, savage me doesn't just ignore the shout, but takes a second doughnut in the other hand, as if to say 'Go **** yourself!'
I try to analyse why this happens - try to understand what psychological process is at work that makes me - a rational, intelligent person - willfully sabotage myself and undermine my health…but even while I'm analysing and trying to decode myself, I'm reaching for the next doughnut.
It would be fascinating, if it weren't so frustrating and soul-destroying!
You said: OK: you resolve to do… blah blah in the morning. But then what happens by noon? I mean you probably do NOT, all of a sudden, resolve not to care!
But you see, that's pretty much exactly what happens. It's almost as if literally from one moment to the next I all of a sudden, resolve not to care! That pretty much sums up what happens. One moment I'm rationally, mindfully resolved to exercise weight control…the next moment (seemingly from nowhere) an opposing force has invaded my brain, and I resolve not to care, not to bother, not to try...and that counter-resolve drowns out the rational one (which still shouts, furiously, but not to a receptive listener).
Has that helped you out at all?
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Oh Bella - I sooo know what you’re trying to say. Same here. I KNOW what I need to do and start the day well.
But somehow mid day and beyond it’s like aliens have control of my brain. 🧠 Even as I eat the next snack, second helping, or fat bomb, I know it’s not what I really should do.Perhaps it’s a result of having to be desperately IN CONTROL for a long time. The in-control part of my brain is just tired out and goes on vacation midday. Somehow eating whatever - even if I know it’s counterproductive- allows me to relax and stop struggling. Control exhaustion???
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Somehow eating whatever - even if I know it’s counterproductive- allows me to relax and stop struggling . Control exhaustion???
@Yoolypr what you said above really resonates with me…I think it's at least a factor in the equation. I am a person who can demonstrate iron self control for months if not years at a time…but once that control slips I'm completely undone.
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Honestly I’m beginning to focus on my need to desperately KEEP IT ALL TOGETHER. For myself during my recent medical issues and for my family so they don’t worry. Mental, physical and emotional fatigue.
In the past as a caregiver for my mother it was caring for everyone but myself. Once she passed on I was able to lose the bulk of my weight. But when I needed to keep it together again, I went right back to my old eating habits. Not hunger, not cravings - food really wasn’t the issue. Not even really enjoying or tasting the food.
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It’s long ingrained habits here that undo me and switch me in to that “wilfully deaf” and DUMB (here) with the self-sabotaging behaviour. I can have a fridge and freezer full of varied, healthy, prepared from scratch savoury, sweet meals for all occasions. I love cooking and batch cooking helps with the busy, working / supporting family days….but every so often - can take a few days or even weeks and I’m looting the pantry like I’ve not eaten only hour(s) before! I find it so baffling, stupid, even idiotic.
Tuesday’s binge was over a 1000 kcals - 200 more is what some people have allotted in a day.
I can’t fathom it, so am just gonna “ walk” away from it and try to hold onto how it made me feel in those moments and learn… yet again. I mean what else to do.3 -
desert me completely when I'm in this somnambulist condition
100% match to Bella during every single period of gain or regain.
Still NO 100% success at avoiding. But SOME success in mitigating.
Best to avoid triggering (slow things down) Acknowledgement that it seems to follow or be associated with periods of high stress. Maybe a good strategy for me would be to reduce "easy to add up" calories at those times.
Mitigation?
Fun and games! logging is not a bad thing or work or an inhibition.No no no; it is a FUN way to WIN the GAME of eating the MOST that you can and have the MOST FUN stuff that you can within the FUN FUN FUN parameters you've set for yourself to achieve the GOOD HAMSTER FUN goals that you want to (which should not be too too hard especially in the beginning so that you're not having extra reasons to avoid). I mean what could be more fun that knowing exactly how many grams of fun white fluffy bread you just had? (18.7g in case you're wondering).
slightly depressed somnambulist state has two end points for me: gain or not caring enough to eat but that becomes a game too (because there is a self harm component there that can turn into not eating as punishment that should probably be avoided and not triggered. In my particular case if I've not eaten sufficiently through the day because of #3, I do deliberately make up for it via chocolate and protein ;-) so as not to overdo things (at this point even 750+Cal deficits are not really sustainable and if applied we will soon end up with a severely overeating episode
let's face it, this is the long wait for the light switch to flip. My only take to manage that wait is to "fight it" as much as possible… i.e. avoid the one way regain that can happen during this timeframe by slowing things down. Which will lead to #4 because we all know the stuff that doesn't seem to ever happen while waiting for the switch to flip.
(my "big" thing that don't happen: I don't record my scale weight. I don't do a whole bunch of other things too—the most important one being not stopping when I go off the rails even though know I ought to stop.
RANDOM thoughts. And they really are random stream of conscience thoughts. Sorry but I have to get back to real life ;-)
1 — set up a really random ruie that doesn't even have to make sense. Being summer time, esp for Bella you might even be able to implement it more easily. I am thinking back to when I first started… I split all "snacks" to 10 to 30g bags that were in the 100Cal range. And I set up "rules"/"games" whatever you want to call it. I can have AS MANY SNACKS AS I WANT. But each snack can only be eaten sitting at the living room table. Not standing. Not moving. just sitting at the table. On a plate. And I can take one snack to the table from the drawer and log it first and then eat it. And if I want another one I can get up and go to the kitchen and get a second one and then log it first and then eat it. And if I want another one, of course I can, but first I have to get to the living room by walking around the outside of the house first and getting the third one and logging it and then eating it. And if I want another one, of course I can, but I have to go out of the house and around the block and then get it and then log it and then eat it. And if I want another one, of course I can, but I have to walk to the grocery store that is 1km down the road and then back and then get it and then log it and then eat it sitting down at the table in the living room in a plate ;)
2 — just add things. So maybe zwifting up the alps is not in the cards right now. But you could set up a situation where the game is that you will "walk to the village green / commons to fetch, I don't know, water for the dishes, or a blade of grass to add to your salad, or to take a picture of some random item" before you can have your lunch item. And you can have anything for lunch. BUT YOU MUST HAVE LOGGED IT IN GRAMS and ENTERED IT ON YOUR PHONE BEFORE you open your mouth to insert it ;-)
It doesn't have to make sense as long as you can sell it to the hamsters to get them going in the direction of the desired behaviour. Instead of contemplating I will have to do ALL these things to get going and I will have to do all this WORK start ** removing obstacles ** that seem to be looming. And if something seems like it can be an obstacle or reduce your ability to repeat it again and again sort of work around it to modify it for now and make it easier. So instead of zwifting up the alps just add some extra movement to your day. Instead of looking to create 1000 Cal deficits just worry about logging each single item before you eat it. Nothing more. Nothing less. I mean you are just recording as a fun exercise for the future bella too look at and you're not even trying to cut down on your food or drinks or what have you, am-I-right or am-I-right? Recording is… easy and you have a LEDGER which ought to make accountants go: WOOOHOOO!!!
Instead of (like me) not recording my weight because I "know" it is wrong and I haven't hit the bathroom yet, or I've drunk a pot of coffee, or yesterday I had a salty meal, or I did too much exercise, or I had a sandwich so what's the point of weighing now… I should still enter the effing weight and still count it in my trend which in the end will still reflect the truth albeit with a larger variance. Which of course I don't do — so do as I say, not as I do ;-)
"Fugue like" states suck :( Hamster management is the #1 requirement :( I think we need better cats!
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Tuesday’s binge was over a 1000 kcals
Walk away from it. It is a non event. It is barely two extra days of 'normal deficit eating'. It's not even 5oz of weight and that would be assuming the whole thing stuck.
That's where the slow down and avoid triggering issues by over-trying comes in.
Just worry about establish a relatively easy to sustain long term normal. The aberrations just disappear within the longer term overall trend.
Don't be disappointed that you're walking away. Walking away and letting go of the aberrations in your long term trend IS the win.
The worry should be in establishing the "good" normal as soon as possible. And to do that it helps if the new normal is as "easy" to establish as possible
(correction: it helps ME to make it as easy as possible to establish. for all I know some people thrive in making it HARD for themselves but for me it works better if it is easy enough to default to)
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Wow, deep. And all too relatable.
The program I found last Fall, BodySlims, is all about harnessing the Power of the Day, and has a "3 legged stool" approach - diet, exercise (which have been designed to work together in balance) AND a head component. Per BodySlims wisdom, we all know what to do - eat less and move more - but we must parse out weightloss from weight maintenance; weightloss is not endlessly sustainable (nor should it be, after all we would die at some point…) and endlessly yo-yoing between the 2 is fruitless, frustrating and detrimental to the metabolism. They use a semester style system of going for it for 10 weeks, and then practicing maintenance in between. And each of those 10 weeks has an in-depth seminar to dive into topics such as our habits, food composition and what happened to our food supply since the 1950s, limiting beliefs, pull vs push goals, the 3 parts of our personality applying the Freudian model - the Id (child, wants it now, seeks perceived pleasure and moves away from perceived pain, has been running rampant), the Superego (the parent that knows better but has been ignored or let down so often that it is badly weakened) and the Ego (us, as we know ourselves to be, mostly helplessly witnessing this struggle).
To wrangle the Id, we have to cajole ourselves with constant reminders of our future pleasure vs discipline (the carrot vs the stick as much as possible) and gamify the process as much as possible (you're onto something there PAV). We CAN also use the stick, described as the illness Express, bearing down on us but out of sight around the bend, but the reward system much more effective.
There are also daily short videos and mindful meditations (like a couple of minutes each), and an app to engage with to keep our eyes on the prize.
Another tidbit? The barrier to great is all too often good, as good becomes 'good enough' and we don't ever actually make it to grwat (our goal), and end up waffling between bad, fair and good (yo-yoing again). Great is the easier state to maintain, once achieved, as it is GREAT (I'll let you know when I get there lol).
The next session does not start until mid/late September, and I do heartily recommend it; it is all online, if you are interested. There are a ton of testimonials on their website BodySlims.com. I personally feel it truly has been a Godsend, not exaggerating.
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PAV - the Oceanfront development is in Squamish, or perhaps the road is technically before Squamish, but right there. Which is a left off the highway, not a right 😂
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Hi @BCLadybug88…re BodySlims…. In Uk says “Bookings now closed”. May mean closed till Autumn as you hinted or closed. I like the idea of the psychology part running alongside a healthy plan & recipes. Hope it opens ….interested! Thanks for signpost…
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I've not commented because I've so been living here - pretty well most of my life. Three times I've lost 100+ pounds and regained. Except for maybe a decade when things were smooth and I was smoking - I've been either gaining or losing. I pray this will be my final "losing" cycle followed by a couple of decades of reasonable weight maintenance. The BodySlims 3 parts of our personality model certainly rings true. I'm picturing them as a three headed wavy beast - that goes along with my deep dark sea monster lurking deep down inside making sure I don't decide to starve me again - ready to send me binging if it is triggered. :)
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@Creamtea42 , yes bookings now closed for the Spring session, not sure how soon they open up for Fall bookings, but I would set a reminder for early August to check. Will be around 3rd week of September to start going by last Fall.
It's aimed at weightloss but also weight maintenance, some repeaters have already reached their 'dare to dream' goal weight but like to have the daily affirmations to keep their focus, like a safety blanket lol.
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@lauriekallis I too have lost and gained considerable weight a few times, but never made it all the way to where I wanted to end up - got diet fatigue and/or plateaus and/or lost focus. Then of course I regained and ended up fatter and heavier before something triggered me to gird my loins and enter the fray once again.
BodySlims has explained that the pain that triggered me (push goal) diminishes and you need a powerful pull goal to keep your focus going. I am really hoping this head work will be 'the difference that makes the difference' as they put it.
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Two consecutive days of good control…something of a minor miracle.
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I spy I spy with my little eye an upcoming streak from the British Isles!😎
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Pav, as usual your suggestions and insights were really thought-provoking Thank you. I've been thinking of ways to gameify the process, which is something I used to do all the time to keep me amused and engaged, but which I've allowed to lapse like every other tool. I used to say things to myself like 'You can have the snack, but you must eat it with a knife and fork…' which isn't so easy if it's peanuts or crisps or a Cadbury Creme Egg…or I'd say 'You can have the snack if you hula hoop for 5 minutes first…'
Stuff like that.
I'd forgotten how useful that was as a strategy - thanks for the reminder.
I'm trying not to run before I can walk. My primary goal at the moment is to stop sneaking food, as if K were the diet police. Unlike my mom, who never lost an opportunity to weaponise food and appetite, K has never, ever put any pressure upon me about my diet or my weight, so it's unfathomable why old, dangerous childhood behaviour has re-surfaced, such as scarfing down chocolate when I'm walking the dog or wolfing down handfuls of peanuts in the kitchen while supposedly waiting for the tea to brew.
I remind myself that obesity isn't a hidden disorder…you can't hide the ramifications of hidden scoffing, even if you try to kid yourself and your loved ones that you're eating like Gwyneth Paltrow.
So that's goal number one. Once that behaviour is nailed back in its coffin I'll think what comes next…
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Oh, Bella. those behaviours. I am so familiar with them. Maybe 3 years ago now I had a house guest for 2 months who I was embarrassed to eat treats in front of. So I would scoff them down on the walk home from the grocery store. Usually a little blueberry pie - so not really easy to manage on foot with a bag or two in hand.
I've broken the habit now - but it took more than 2 1/2 years to do it. The shame is so deep - and the need for instant gratification that the treat sneaking fed into.
Just making myself wait for treats has helped immensely. Mentally giving myself permission to have the treat from the get go - an agreement made during the walk to the store. I just have to wait until I get home to have it. So often the desire disappears. I have even once - yes just once but it was a miracle :) - forgot a bar in my purse. That was a couple of weeks ago and I can't tell you how happy I was to discover it the next evening :)
I don't have enough control to do that with treats in the house yet. But out in the world I can manage to walk home from the store without scoffing something down along the way.
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Anyone else’s Community pages come up in a different language? Have had both Spanish & German lately😯
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Exceeded my weight loss calorie goal by about 500 calories today because it was my best friend's birthday lunch…but still under maintenance calories (one of the benefits of having gained too many kilos is that I have a higher allowance of maintenance calories.) Salad for lunch tomorrow.
This is my 5th consecutive day of not sneaking food….a minor victory.
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No other languages … yet :)
I have the same wonderful benefit, Bella. The extra calories from the extra weight - and from me being determined not to go as low as I know I can :) come in handy some days for sure! Makes life more liveable. Probably should have done that last time around too, me thinks and says to myself regularly.1 -
'permission to eat' phrase rings a bell (along with so much else.)
My yoyo from fad diets to feasting was all about throwing off the tryanny of (diet) imposed rules - often in defiant rebellion or in private. So unravelling that lifetime is more complex than words ever express.
Sometimes tracking helps understand how much but other times tracking/diet rules or skills triggers that rebellion, so then other tools are used, like the myplate design.
And I stopped looking beyond the meal right now or today - I was like bargaining next /many meals ahead with future promises to cut back later, then not.
Led to all sorts of failures, guilt, remorse - and that is seriously damaging.
Now, it's just me, for me - I rarely discuss irl, although it has been nice to find people hete who are sharing authentically. ty
Ps - to add - not sure it will be all unravelled, or relapses ended, but do hope episodes/relapse will improve over time.
Had a few sustained stable periods of weightloss. Grief, covid knocked me out of my rolls - it is surprisingly difficult to get back on a sustained roll.
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Ain't it the truth, Yacky. I feel exactly the same about it being nice to find people here who are sharing authentically. What a blessing. And not a stupid/flip one amongst us. Thank the heavens.
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I **can** relate that it has worked much better for me to "allow myself everything and anything — just not as **often** as in the past/ as often as I initially believe I want it and not in the same **vast quantities** as in the past"
With me, at least, it became talismanic that I would HAVE to log it by the gram before putting it in my mouth.
Because it gave me time to consider whether i even wanted it. Because it forced me to not eat what I was going to because I was looking for the "correct" entry, and having eaten an apple which was easy to log and the time having passed I then realized that the whole involved other item could now wait for later consumption or was no longer desired as much.
There does exist (for me) a component of "food ideation" when I have not eaten enough calories for a while and yes, it is triggered by the size of deficit to that point of time in the day.
In fact I've now realized that often thinking about various food "fantasies" is a hint for me that I am actually too low on calories at the particular moment even if I do not feel "hunger" by whatever other definition I think I ought to feel hunger to declare I am hungry.
Even when I was obese I used to go RELATIVELY "long hours" without food during the day and then systematically over eat once the food gates opened.
Relatively long hours, because objectively this was probably not true. i.e. I had ingested copious amounts calories such as two breakfast or lunch sandwiches and a pop or coffee with multi creams and sugars at McDonald's with or without fries. But it was true at the time in terms of by comparison to my total daily intake. Because breakfast McD's could well have been followed by all you can eat fish and chips (I mean I used to go 2-3 times a week alternating with AYCE sushi). Or a "healthy salad" with 4 to 5 tablespoons of olive oil and a side of half a family bag of "restaurant" tortilla chips! 🤷🏼♀️
Anyway. The excesses are most certainly NOT to that level on a customary occasion. But I am also not sure that SIX full sized candy bars CAN truly fit into a day.
Hamster management… is a circus ain't it ;-) I mean I am perfectly happy razzle dazzling mine. These days I eke for myself a -200 ish real deficit by adding layers of plots to confuse the hamsters! There is the constant 153lb weight (which I guess I have to update since I am now so close to it (155 to 156). But it was set to 153lb for logging expenditures when I was at my highest since 2015 (the above 169lbs ones that didn't get recorded).
And then there is the "sneaky" Fitbit-Cronometer integration issue that I have been taking advantage off! Some accounts went bonkers on August 29 2024. And they started logging the day short by 579 Calories (in my case). But only if my actual daily total is above 2600. If it is between 2300 and 2600 the amount is less than 579 and below 2300 everything is transferring through accurately!
So that's a manual adjustment at the end of the day… so I spend most of the day pretending that I am already at a surplus… and then BANG claw back 579 Cal at the end of the day. Because, of course, I've no idea this is going on! 🤣
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Sharing some advice I came across recently, for what it's worth (thinking about anyway):
The 4 Golden Rules of Weight Loss by Paul McKenna - he claims if you follow these you will not only lose weight, but maintain as well.
- When you are genuinely hungry, go and eat, but physical hunger only, not emotional.
- Eat what you want to eat- not what you think you should.
- Whenever you eat anything, be sure to eat it consciously, mindfully - eat slowly. Chew thoroughly. Savour it. Focus on the food and nothing else - no distractions like being online, reading, TV, etc.
- When you think you're full, stop. Bear in mind rule #1, if you're hungry later you can go and eat, so stop when you are satiated.
I am afraid my hamsters would go to town and do so much damage before trusting the process kicked in, but it is intriguing nonetheless.
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I disagree with none of them. Actually tend to substantially apply most of them. But I disagree with all of them to a smaller degree and I'm not sure they are sufficient or fully realistic by themselves!
1--sure if you can manage to 100% sort this one out. I'm happy enough to sort it out MOST of the time. Good news? That does seem to be sufficient if indeed it IS MOST of the time!
2--to a degree. I even personally overdo the free for all degree. But some sort of adult hamsters should still be around to suggest some level of darn bunnies and some protein and some fiber and some omega 3s ya know. Not every day maybe but err some of the time???🤔🤷♂️ Not going to discuss the no added sugar hamster... mine has some sort of speech impediment or defect??!??🤯
3--truly this advice is good. Golden even. It would naturally reduce calories for me as rapid ingestion invariably is in violation of #3. Is it practical? Long term? I started by implementing this for high calorie snacks. But long term? I eat too many meals or snacks on the go and barely keep up to logging them. But I can see it working whenever it is implemented.
4--actually this should be: "at the fist HINT of no longer being really hungry" as opposed to seeking to be full.
As soon as the thought crosses your mind. When it first pops into your conscience. STOP. You can always continue as soon as you're (truly) hungry.
I can only report that this is true and it can work. And overall pushing for later CAN help you manage calories. Or at least it did with me.
And still saves me on occasion when I'm out and I tell myself that I've had enough and do not need to continue eating because I can always do so when I'm hungry again later.
It probably would not have worked for me on day one or month one of reducing calories. But I did sort of stumble on this while losing. After long walks/hikes (2h+) I would stop for a 300 Cal (as we've established based on average weight) vanilla cone.
The fast acting sugar rush would blunt hunger enough to give me time to get back home and make a nicer low cal high volume meal allowing me to space the food intake and keep to my deficit by back loading the day.
Do note that by that time IR had probably resolved for me. And I had just finished a "gym" session. I.e. the sugar rush was ingested / timed to just before or after exercise.
So there is merit to the above based on my personal experience
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Think there are a bazillion approaches...
For me & my prior attempts, developed a profound fatigue and rebellion on anything that felt like a 'diet related rule, food, skill, tool, even suggestion.'
On the flipside, there is a healthful basis in most of those things, but I am, more than not, incapable of white knuckling through any of it.
I had to shift my reasons - I elevated health for body above weightloss and then can put together approaches that help - understanding how much (such as understanding cico formula, tracking to figure how much, my bmr/tdee estimators, movement to retain range of motion, improve stamina… etc.)
But tell me I must or need to lose weight and I have an urge to abandon ship and feast.
It is the darndest thing and when I try to express it in various scenarios - such as to a medical person pressing me to lose weight, take the glp shot or have the tummy surgery... or people pushing things like my family all in on carnivore...
Then they look at me like I'm an alien, or stupid, or hopeless or whatever...
(ticks me off - like get out of my face!) - i'm not sure I will ever be unquirked about it, but I do better when I focus on health and ways to help.
And who knows about future, that could all change as I untangle the hamsterettes! Lol)
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Get you completely, Yakky. And look - you have found a way to treat your body well. Congratulations.
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Oh oh oh the hamsterettes have entered the mix! They are probably little minxes and I bet stubborn too!
But yes… razzle dazzle them hamsterettes and just wrangle them in the direction that makes sense to you.
Anything that is healthier than before is good and can be used to incrementally build on in the direction we want to!
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Did the British contingent go up in white smoke today? Where are our peops?
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I'm here :) Representing the colonial Ontario part of the country!
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