The problem with just meeting women, becoming friends and then getting into a relationship is that it's just too infrequent. it's happened 3 times in my life (I'm 48). Going out "on the pull" or using websites is a lot more effective.

I still reckon that the "cost" of getting a girlfriend is low. Under $100. I bought a printer today, that's $50 and it was on special. The cost of two printers and I've got a girlfriend! If I end up marrying a woman and I have to pay for a few coffees, so what? Also going on say a picnic (which is low cost) is a good way to get to know someone and also find out if they are high (cost) maintenance.

I still reckon that the "cost" of getting a girlfriend is low. Under $100. I bought a printer today, that's $50 and it was on special. The cost of two printers and I've got a girlfriend! If I end up marrying a woman and I have to pay for a few coffees, so what? Also going on say a picnic (which is low cost) is a good way to get to know someone and also find out if they are high (cost) maintenance.

Well you're lucky then (or have no standards) if it costs you only $100 to find a woman (how many failed dates before finding her?), date her for a few times (to know who she truly is), and decide - after a while - that it is now time to call her your girlfriend. :laugh:

But I understand what you mean, and I agree. Actually I will take women on initial cheap dates because I don't want a high maintenance woman, and because it's all about the people...

Riiiight.

Well, she's done here, so I'll now use the third person:

I assume she will eventually want to go out with her boyfriend without the rest of the wolfpack present? Or is she going to go from group events to marriage?

"Hey, can I borrow some carabiners for this climb? Also, are you busy tomorrow, let's just get married? You're Susan, right?"

I agree with her friends first approach. I'm not going out with people I don't know, either. But eventually, you will be on an actual date together, no matter what you want to call it. And so the idea of how to manage payment will always be an issue. It's a legitimate question.

--P

Here is your answer: payment is a non issue, for everyone. If it is an issue for someone, they're doing it wrong, i.e. they're not doing what *THEY* want to do.
You don't want to pay? Don't pay. Then the women who will stick around accept that or don't mind going Dutch.
You want to pay? Then pay. You're going to meet women who accept or even like that.
If you start thinking: how can I impress women by paying for their meals while paying as little as I can, then you're clearly not paying for the right reasons.

- Maybe it sucks but history dictates that the man pays for dates in the beginning. I'm sorry how it is but a lot of women will not go out with you again if you don't pay. And after a couple of dates she should offer to pay for something - and it is up to you whether you accept or not. If you can't afford to pay for multiple dates I'd take DMs advice and take the women on free dates.

After hearing many, many times from guy friends that if a guy isn't willing to pay for you, then he's not interested in seeing you again. I never thought that way until I heard a lot of guy friends say that. Of the few guys I went out with recently, one paid for a lot of things when we went out, but after a while I'd pay for things too...I didn't want it to be like I needed to be "kept", and I knew by then that he was interested, so I didn't mind paying once in a while. The last guy I dated, after a couple dates where he paid for everything, we were going to the movies, and I asked "Can I pay for the tickets since you've already paid for everything so far." And he said "No, we're not at that stage yet." :laugh:

This thread is way different than what I thought it was going to be. My dirty mind's first thought was "how it feels for a girl during sex."

Lol. I'm immature.

You're not alone. That's what I thought it was going be when I first saw this thread.

Good thread though.

This thread is way different than what I thought it was going to be. My dirty mind's first thought was "how it feels for a girl during sex."

Lol. I'm immature.

You're not alone. That's what I thought it was going be when I first saw this thread.

Good thread though.

Put me in the nursing home because I never did. :ohwell: :sad:

This thread is way different than what I thought it was going to be. My dirty mind's first thought was "how it feels for a girl during sex."

Lol. I'm immature.

You're not alone. That's what I thought it was going be when I first saw this thread.

Good thread though.

Same here!

As stated before, I hang out with friends, and when friends go out, no one worries or stresses over who pays.

I am done here.

Interesting. I know it's been discussed a lot here, but I've never once stressed out or worried about who will pay on a date. I generally offer to pay, but if she really insists I'll let her pay and not make a big deal out of it. Pretty simple. It's actually A LOT more complicated when I go out with a group of friends.

As for the whole not dating thing...hey do whatever works for you. If I could bypass the whole system entirely I probably would too. But I'm not in grade school anymore and I can no longer just ask someone I like to go with me or pass them a note and check a box.

And women ABSOLUTELY have it easier in dating. In my experience being a guy I generally have to approach a girl, make some sort of conversation, ask for her phone number, call her, ask her out, come up with something to do, possibly make reservations, probably pay, the female generally provides very little help. All they really have to do is get ready and show up, yet somehow they manage to make even the most trivial decisions (like picking out an outfit) more complicated than it needs to be.

And women ABSOLUTELY have it easier in dating. In my experience being a guy I generally have to approach a girl, make some sort of conversation, ask for her phone number, call her, ask her out, come up with something to do, possibly make reservations, probably pay, the female generally provides very little help. All they really have to do is get ready and show up, yet somehow they manage to make even the most trivial decisions (like picking out an outfit) more complicated than it needs to be.

What about when you're the girl who never got asked out...I know how that goes: she's the one who initiates conversation and the feeling out if he likes her and the asking and the planning. I've asked guys out before, I know how it goes.

I was never one who got asked out...ever. But now, when I do, I'll happily participate in the planning, I don't get why girls don't do that. The last guy I dated, he wanted to plan everything. Then it got to the point where he'd say "I'll pick where to go for dinner, you pick the movie." Fine by me. Why not take initiative and get involved in the planning?

Yeah see so you know how most guys feel. I never get asked out, it would be nice, but I just learned how to be more proactive about it.

It is nice when a girl does a little planning once in a while. In fact I'd probably get bored with someone who never had any opinion on what to do. I already have a dog that follows me everywhere, I don't need another one.

LOL

And women ABSOLUTELY have it easier in dating. In my experience being a guy I generally have to approach a girl, make some sort of conversation, ask for her phone number, call her, ask her out, come up with something to do, possibly make reservations, probably pay, the female generally provides very little help. All they really have to do is get ready and show up, yet somehow they manage to make even the most trivial decisions (like picking out an outfit) more complicated than it needs to be.

What about when you're the girl who never got asked out...I know how that goes: she's the one who initiates conversation and the feeling out if he likes her and the asking and the planning. I've asked guys out before, I know how it goes.

I was never one who got asked out...ever. But now, when I do, I'll happily participate in the planning, I don't get why girls don't do that. The last guy I dated, he wanted to plan everything. Then it got to the point where he'd say "I'll pick where to go for dinner, you pick the movie." Fine by me. Why not take initiative and get involved in the planning?

I agree that I have to be the one to initiate a conversation, ask her out and schedule a date. I would recommend to women to try that for a month and see how difficult it is. Occasionally, I have gotten asked out and enjoyed it. And even less occasionally, a woman will pay for an early date with me.

I'd be glad to have a woman who was involved in the planning of a first, second or third date. Women who rank above a 6.5 or higher are rarely ever involved in planning or initiating in my experience.

Yeah see so you know how most guys feel. I never get asked out, it would be nice, but I just learned how to be more proactive about it.

Right, hence the "girls do not have it easier" train of thought. :laugh:

I've asked guys out, I've been rejected.I got sick of waiting around for a guy to ask me out, so I started doing the asking. Guys just think that girls have guys flocking to them, and that's not the case. :laugh: If it were, there'd be no single women!

The title of this thread is sooo misleading!!! :explode: :laugh:

It's true women have it easier, but that's only drastically true if you're that 6.5 + that DM mentioned. Hard to have it easy when no one pays you attention. As someone below that threshold, dating is never easy. Guys say they would love it when a girl asks them out but they mean those 6.5+ girls. Roadie, you said it yourself in an old posting.... You're never interested in the women that reach out to you online! If you were, you would have already messaged them yourself. So accurately, as toots said, hot women have it easy...the rest of us, not so much!

Said it better than I did! :flowerforyou:

It's true women have it easier, but that's only drastically true if you're that 6.5 + that DM mentioned. Hard to have it easy when no one pays you attention. As someone below that threshold, dating is never easy. Guys say they would love it when a girl asks them out but they mean those 6.5+ girls. Roadie, you said it yourself in an old posting.... You're never interested in the women that reach out to you online! If you were, you would have already messaged them yourself. So accurately, as toots said, hot women have it easy...the rest of us, not so much!

Well, I don't remember what my exact words were, but what I meant was the women that message me are usually not ones I would have messaged, meaning I'm just not into them for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that they approached me first. The girl I'm seeing right now actually asked me out first and it's been about 50/50 since then, seems to be working out well enough.

Yeah sure the better looking people will usually have it easier, but I still think on average the guy ends up doing more work.