We should do another "Meativore May."
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welsh_cake wrote: »I'm in (but gonna start a week early)!!
I'm going to start a week early, too. Made out my grocery list and realized there is still a week to go in April. Oh well, not turning back, now!
. . . Or, just too lazy to make a new list. . . 3 -
baconslave wrote: »welsh_cake wrote: »...Mayo
... come from an animal.
wut? Only like 10% of mayo is the egg, the rest is oil.
ahhhh...but if you make your own and use bacon fat.....
I gotta try this. Mayo is just ok right now, but made with bacon fat.....the thought is making my mouth water.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »baconslave wrote: »welsh_cake wrote: »...Mayo
... come from an animal.
wut? Only like 10% of mayo is the egg, the rest is oil.
ahhhh...but if you make your own and use bacon fat.....
I gotta try this. Mayo is just ok right now, but made with bacon fat.....the thought is making my mouth water.
This is much harder than making it with plant oils, sadly. The Fat needs to be warm enough to be liquid but not warm enough to cook the egg. And, when you store it, it will get hard.
It is tasty though.2 -
K im excited! I'm just imagining steak for breakfast, pork for lunch and chicken wrapped in bacon for dinner. This sounds so simple yet my mind is like "are you sure?!"3
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welsh_cake wrote: »welsh_cake wrote: »...Mayo
... come from an animal.
wut? Only like 10% of mayo is the egg, the rest is oil.
I meant derived from animal based products, of which egg is (even if only about 10%)
Strictly speaking, mayo is off limits, because it contains plant products (and is, in fact, mostly plant based). The exception would be if you made it with animal fats, and the only plant material would be spices.0 -
DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.0 - Weight normalization
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I do not need to tolerate or accept bad or misleading information just because I am a moderator (not even a moderator / just a group Leader) and you think that prohibits me from speaking my mind.
You provide misleading information and you're going to hurt people.0 -
Just in case... here is a link for you meat eaters: https://goo.gl/oMBqIP
"Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
Removing fiber fixes constipation, it doesn't cause it.
C'mon that was totally out of line. I said my peace on the whole - only meat idea and what newbies to the LCHF board might come away with. I think alot of people who come here are looking for a keto diet and getting into ketosis, which too much meat/protein without alot of fat in the diet will not achieve. I respected everyone who wants to try it, was only looking out for those dont know or who are learning - but now this seems to have gotten very personal1 -
DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
1. This isn't a keto diet.
2. This second part isn't [absolutely] true. I have tested blood ketones with massive amounts in a meal and across days. I have never been kicked out even with meals over 160 gram and day after day over 200 grams.
3. This isn't a high-protein diet. The increase in meat someone will be eating is tiny. You are replacing like 80-160 calories of plants.3 - Weight normalization
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DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
1. This isn't a keto diet.
2. This second part isn't [absolutely] true. I have tested blood ketones with massive amounts in a meal and across days. I have never been kicked out even with meals over 160 gram and day after day over 200 grams.
3. This isn't a high-protein diet. The increase in meat someone will be eating is tiny. You are replacing like 80-160 calories of plants.
Thanks Fit, once I realized that this isn't for keto - I understood. Plus, if the protein is kept in the proper proportion with fat and like you say in point 3 which is crucial, not a eat massive/high protein then all is good. I still believe that green vegetables need to help remove the fatty acids that build up in the liver from the protein and fat. But thats just me. Good Luck - this thread seems to have generated alot of passionate responses.1 - Weight normalization
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DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
1. This isn't a keto diet.
2. This second part isn't [absolutely] true. I have tested blood ketones with massive amounts in a meal and across days. I have never been kicked out even with meals over 160 gram and day after day over 200 grams.
3. This isn't a high-protein diet. The increase in meat someone will be eating is tiny. You are replacing like 80-160 calories of plants.
It's very dangerous for some people. Not everyone is like you. If you want to eat only meat, fine. But stating that it's safe and advocating that other people do it is just plain dangerous. How do I know? I did it for months and ended up in the hospital. Don't be so convinced that you are 100% right. This would make me sick and I'd imagine a bunch of other people too. Ignoring this simple fact is just irresponsible.0 - Weight normalization
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DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
1. This isn't a keto diet.
2. This second part isn't [absolutely] true. I have tested blood ketones with massive amounts in a meal and across days. I have never been kicked out even with meals over 160 gram and day after day over 200 grams.
3. This isn't a high-protein diet. The increase in meat someone will be eating is tiny. You are replacing like 80-160 calories of plants.
It's very dangerous for some people. Not everyone is like you. If you want to eat only meat, fine. But stating that it's safe and advocating that other people do it is just plain dangerous. How do I know? I did it for months and ended up in the hospital. Don't be so convinced that you are 100% right. This would make me sick and I'd imagine a bunch of other people too. Ignoring this simple fact is just irresponsible.
MFP states (and it should be understood even if not) the importance of seeking medical advice. Obviously if you have CKD, then you are going to have different dietary needs. You probably received (or should obtain if you haven't) medical advice related to that.
In the same regard, carbs make my disease (Type 1 diabetes) more difficult to properly manage. There are probably some who eat 20g of carbs per day and eat all of those carbs at the same time (with 0g carbs the rest of the day). That might work for them, but it does not work for me.
So if a meat only diet doesn't work for you, that's fine. But you don't need to argue that it will cause problems for everyone else. I'm not going to tell you that your salad is going to unacceptably raise your BG because you don't have the same issues I have (AFAIK). Likewise, you don't need to tell me that what causes problems for you (high protein or otherwise) will cause problems for me.4 - Weight normalization
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DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
Carnivore isn't necessarily high protein, in fact, there are some carnivore people who maintain therapeutic ketosis. Andrew Scarborough is a particularly interesting case, since he uses Ketogenic carnivore as part of his treatment system for brain cancer.
That said, ketosis is not required for weight loss on any diet, and carnivore's mechanism of weight normalization is independent of ketosis.0 - Weight normalization
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I am not concerned about too much protein if this is done correctly. Here is an example meal for someone eating 2 meals a day which is quite common in this group:
8 oz of grass fed beef - 32 g fat, 40g protein
cooked in 2 TBSP of butter - 11 g fat
with 2 oz of blue cheese - 16 g fat, 12 g protein
and 2 pieces of bacon - 6 g fat, 6 g protein
Meal totals = 78 g fat, 69 g protein
x 2 meals would be 156 g fat and 138 g protein and 1956 calories. This would be 28% of calories coming from protein.
According to Phinney and Volek, protein should be between 1.5 and 2 g per kg of ideal body weight. I would assume those with an ideal body weight 69 kg (152 lbs) could do just fine not needing more calories than this and would likely do less unless they are active. On the higher weight end of 92 kg (202 lbs) may need more calories than this, but then this protein level would be at the bottom end of the recommendation.
If one is not as picky as I am about having grass fed beef which is leaner, the ratios become much heavier toward fat using 80/20 or 73/27 ground beef.1 -
cstehansen wrote: »I am not concerned about too much protein if this is done correctly. Here is an example meal for someone eating 2 meals a day which is quite common in this group:
8 oz of grass fed beef - 32 g fat, 40g protein
cooked in 2 TBSP of butter - 11 g fat
with 2 oz of blue cheese - 16 g fat, 12 g protein
and 2 pieces of bacon - 6 g fat, 6 g protein
Meal totals = 78 g fat, 69 g protein
x 2 meals would be 156 g fat and 138 g protein and 1956 calories. This would be 28% of calories coming from protein.
According to Phinney and Volek, protein should be between 1.5 and 2 g per kg of ideal body weight. I would assume those with an ideal body weight 69 kg (152 lbs) could do just fine not needing more calories than this and would likely do less unless they are active. On the higher weight end of 92 kg (202 lbs) may need more calories than this, but then this protein level would be at the bottom end of the recommendation.
If one is not as picky as I am about having grass fed beef which is leaner, the ratios become much heavier toward fat using 80/20 or 73/27 ground beef.
Nice breakdown.
I would say, though, that even grass fed isn't as much of an issue as people think. The bison I get is marketed as equivalent to 90/10 and it's never been an issue (in fact, as I mentioned, my insulin and glucose improved during that time). I eat it, because I like it better than beef, really.
In my experience, the ratios are largely a non-issue as long as you're not specifically seeking out the super-lean stuff (chicken/turkey breast, etc) and trying to live only off it (which, as Goat pointed out a few pages back, doesn't work very well). People vary with the ratios they do best with, but it's pretty easy to just add a bit more butter or whatever to your meal. 0 -
so, if I want to do Carnivore and Keto, I can right? I just have to watch my macros. If I eat the fatty meat, I don't see why I couldn't do both.
Or am I not being realistic... but... in my head I can see meat/egg/cheese/cream/butter/spices combinations that would add up to my protein gram range and way under carb limit. I have 100 pds to lose so I don't have to hit my fat percentage if I don't blow up my calorie intake.
I didn't really see this as 'Go gorge yourself on meat till you puke' kind of adventure.1 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
Carnivore isn't necessarily high protein, in fact, there are some carnivore people who maintain therapeutic ketosis. Andrew Scarborough is a particularly interesting case, since he uses Ketogenic carnivore as part of his treatment system for brain cancer.
That said, ketosis is not required for weight loss on any diet, and carnivore's mechanism of weight normalization is independent of ketosis.
Thanks Dragon, I was responding to someone who asked if this would affect ketosis.0 - Weight normalization
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food_lover16 wrote: »so, if I want to do Carnivore and Keto, I can right? I just have to watch my macros. If I eat the fatty meat, I don't see why I couldn't do both.
Or am I not being realistic... but... in my head I can see meat/egg/cheese/cream/butter/spices combinations that would add up to my protein gram range and way under carb limit. I have 100 pds to lose so I don't have to hit my fat percentage if I don't blow up my calorie intake.
I didn't really see this as 'Go gorge yourself on meat till you puke' kind of adventure.
Yep, keep your macros in line and you should be able too do it and stay Keto. I prefer to keep green vegetables in my diet because I believe that the nutrients in them will flush out the fatty acids that accumulate from the HF and protein. But thats just me. Keep your macros in the Keto zone and have fun.0 -
flush out the fatty acids that accumulate from the HF and protein.
I don't understand what that means... Are you talking about going poop? as in 'flush out the intestines'? or are you talking about flushing out something else? Will you please explain?
I have no issues with not pooping enough. I am interested in this carnivore thing to see if I have issues with fiber.0 -
DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
1. This isn't a keto diet.
2. This second part isn't [absolutely] true. I have tested blood ketones with massive amounts in a meal and across days. I have never been kicked out even with meals over 160 gram and day after day over 200 grams.
3. This isn't a high-protein diet. The increase in meat someone will be eating is tiny. You are replacing like 80-160 calories of plants.
It's very dangerous for some people. Not everyone is like you. If you want to eat only meat, fine. But stating that it's safe and advocating that other people do it is just plain dangerous. How do I know? I did it for months and ended up in the hospital. Don't be so convinced that you are 100% right. This would make me sick and I'd imagine a bunch of other people too. Ignoring this simple fact is just irresponsible.
It's safe in the same way that any diet is safe for people who don't have a disorder that contraindicates it, and there's research going back over 100 years on it that supports its safety and effectiveness in various contexts.
If you have CKD, then you should be consuming a diet based on those restrictions. A "balanced" (USDA) diet is recommend for everyone, and yet if I tried to follow those recommendations, I would end up severely anemic and in a great amount of pain and with numerous systemic issues. It's the same idea.
If you don't agree with this challenge, then don't participate in it. Challenges are not compulsory, and we expect our members to use their best judgement and make the decisions that are best for them, since we have tens of thousands of members (with more added every day) of all experience levels and cannot cater exclusively to any one group. We simply strive to provide the information, guidance, and opportunity to experiment and learn about various ways of eating.
You do not need to come into a thread for people on a particular topic and drop in links to drugs with the implication that everyone participating is going to need it, and repeatedly claim that this is bad for everyone, simply because it didn't work for you (which, I should point out, is exactly what you chided Goat for), and with zero research to back up your claims.
If you want to start a discussion on the merits of fiber, by all means, go for it. In a new thread. Otherwise, you are hijacking this one, which, as has already been pointed out, is against MFP's rules.5 - Weight normalization
