We should do another "Meativore May."
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1. This isn't a keto diet.
How is this different than keto? I'm getting confused as one of my goals is to get into ketosis. But, besides the potentially higher protein (which I am not worried about and right at my protein needs with the meal plan that I have for this), will it interfere with my goal of getting into nutritional ketosis? Maybe it's NOT a good idea for me after a semi-successful 4-week keto diet(?)
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1. This isn't a keto diet.
How is this different than keto? I'm getting confused as one of my goals is to get into ketosis. But, besides the potentially higher protein (which I am not worried about and right at my protein needs with the meal plan that I have for this), will it interfere with my goal of getting into nutritional ketosis? Maybe it's NOT a good idea for me after a semi-successful 4-week keto diet(?)
He means that it's not "keto" in the sense that the goal isn't necessarily to obtain a state of ketosis. It can be ketogenic (Andrew Scarborough is a good example of a carnivore person who specifically seeks out therapeutic ketosis), and generally speaking, most followers probably are in ketosis, but it's not the "goal" here.
It's kind of like how Paleo can be low carb, but isn't necessarily.
What is your reason for specifically seeking out ketosis?
If it's just for weight loss, then I wouldn't really worry about it, if you're interested in trying out this challenge. Trust the methodology for this and go from there.
If it's for medical purposes, then you can still try it, just "eat to the meter," the same way a Diabetic would. I recommend a blood ketone meter at that point, and simply adjust your protein to fat ratio to get the levels you need.1 -
I started keto to help with energy levels and because I was sick of starving myself to stay in shape. I wanted to feel satiated after I ate. Weight loss was/is third on the list. As I researched more and more, I found that being in ketosis can help with neurological issues, which I have battled all my life. That is a HUGE bonus and very hopeful for me. I see my doctor next week and will discuss things with her. However, I don't expect that she will be supportive of a keto diet.
I will get a blood ketone meter at some point, but don't have one right now, so I can't eat to the meter.0 -
I will get a blood ketone meter at some point, but don't have one right now, so I can't eat to the meter.
If you track your food, you can still do it. Just watch your macros. You will have lower than normal carbs, but that is ok. They aren't needed for ketosis.
If I do this, I will be doing both keto and carnivore. I'm still deciding and doing research and asking lots of questions.
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food_lover16 wrote: »flush out the fatty acids that accumulate from the HF and protein.
I don't understand what that means... Are you talking about going poop? as in 'flush out the intestines'? or are you talking about flushing out something else? Will you please explain?
I have no issues with not pooping enough. I am interested in this carnivore thing to see if I have issues with fiber.
No this is not about constipation, its about removing the toxins/acids that can build up in liver if you are on a high fat moderate protein diet.0 -
DarlingNikki2011 wrote: »Did we ever get a “why” for doing this? I think I am going to do it for at least 2 weeks. I’m on my 4th week of keto, past the keto flu, but don’t feel like I am nutritional ketosis – breath is fine, energy is blah-ish (normal) but not bad, weight loss has stalled (which is fine, doing this for the energy, feeling satiated and to - hopefully - help with neurological disease, mainly). Maybe this will give me a boost into NK. I am going to have coconut oil because I have so much of it and won’t spend any more money on oils/fats until it’s gone. I AM going to try to cut out my raw cacao – I’m assuming it’s not allowed – and stevia because I think stevia is a bit overrated . . . at least for me - cravings-wise, and not reaching NK.
Why. That's the big question. Lots of people have different reasons. The potential reasons, listed below, are not comprehensive.- Weight normalization
Yeah, you will probably lose fat, if you're over-fat. You'll probably gain some weight, if you're underweight. You'll approach a healthy weight for your body.
Probably? This is something I'm worried about because I am still quite obese and was just getting back to keto. Will this have an adverse effect?
Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis.
1. This isn't a keto diet.
2. This second part isn't [absolutely] true. I have tested blood ketones with massive amounts in a meal and across days. I have never been kicked out even with meals over 160 gram and day after day over 200 grams.
3. This isn't a high-protein diet. The increase in meat someone will be eating is tiny. You are replacing like 80-160 calories of plants.
Thanks Fit, once I realized that this isn't for keto - I understood. Plus, if the protein is kept in the proper proportion with fat and like you say in point 3 which is crucial, not a eat massive/high protein then all is good. I still believe that green vegetables need to help remove the fatty acids that build up in the liver from the protein and fat. But thats just me. Good Luck - this thread seems to have generated alot of passionate responses.
I think whether the diet is keto or not can be determined by the type of meat. Lean chicken breasts and white seafood is less fatty than pork, beef and eggs, or even cheese.
As Goat said, I think you need to be very high in protein before it affects the ability to be in ketosis. Well over 200g for men, from what I understand.
ETA I probably should have kept reading before answering. I'm just repeating stuff. Carry on. LOL
1 - Weight normalization
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Alright, I am going to elaborate on the "This isn't a keto diet" comment, because it's important. I see that this comment confused people.
I define a "Keto Diet" as one that is intentionally seeking ketosis and elevated blood ketone levels (often in the range of 2.5+ on the blood meters).
This way of eating is not intentionally ketogenic, meaning it is not the goal or purpose to be in ketosis. Ketosis is a side effect of eating this way, it's almost impossible for it not to be. You'll be in ketosis when you eat this way, because there's really no other option. That's not a goal, it's just a side-effect. If I go jogging, my goal is not to get all sweaty. It's almost certainly going to happen, but it's not the why behind my going jogging.
Ketosis is just the way it is. Anything above 0.5 mmol/L is technically being in ketosis. I've never dropped below a 0.9 (back when I tested) and usually was a 1.2+ on the meter. I never hit the 2.5 mmol/L goal, that so many seem to have. That's the extremely elevated levels. Other people do/can hit those levels, mostly because they have to for medical reasons (Andrew mentioned above is an example).
Some people chase those numbers, which I am not convinced is wise as that does frequently require restricting protein to the bare minimum to prevent muscle wasting. The bare minimum means your body is surviving not thriving. How can it heal and rebuild when it has just enough to get by?
I've told many people, if eating this way healed me, brought me to a healthy weight, kept me strong, and so on; but, I was never in ketosis than I can pass on ketosis.0 -
I am in, with one exception -- Mother's Day. My family has been very supportive of my keto diet, but I'm afraid I will never convince my autistic daughter that special occasions do not require CAKE
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food_lover16 wrote: »so, if I want to do Carnivore and Keto, I can right? I just have to watch my macros. If I eat the fatty meat, I don't see why I couldn't do both.
Or am I not being realistic... but... in my head I can see meat/egg/cheese/cream/butter/spices combinations that would add up to my protein gram range and way under carb limit. I have 100 pds to lose so I don't have to hit my fat percentage if I don't blow up my calorie intake.
I didn't really see this as 'Go gorge yourself on meat till you puke' kind of adventure.
Reduced food volume is definitely an issue. When I tried all animal the first time, I was a bit put off by how little of my dinner plate was filled by an appropriate amount of meat.0 -
jennkain97 wrote: »I am in, with one exception -- Mother's Day. My family has been very supportive of my keto diet, but I'm afraid I will never convince my autistic daughter that special occasions do not require CAKE
Tell her to make you a meat cake.food_lover16 wrote: »flush out the fatty acids that accumulate from the HF and protein.
I don't understand what that means... Are you talking about going poop? as in 'flush out the intestines'? or are you talking about flushing out something else? Will you please explain?
I have no issues with not pooping enough. I am interested in this carnivore thing to see if I have issues with fiber.
No this is not about constipation, its about removing the toxins/acids that can build up in liver if you are on a high fat moderate protein diet.
Sources?3 -
I just ate boeuf haché tartare.... Très bon....
Anyone want the recipe? C'mon kids, it's lush - you know you want it....1 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »jennkain97 wrote: »I am in, with one exception -- Mother's Day. My family has been very supportive of my keto diet, but I'm afraid I will never convince my autistic daughter that special occasions do not require CAKE
Tell her to make you a meat cake.food_lover16 wrote: »flush out the fatty acids that accumulate from the HF and protein.
I don't understand what that means... Are you talking about going poop? as in 'flush out the intestines'? or are you talking about flushing out something else? Will you please explain?
I have no issues with not pooping enough. I am interested in this carnivore thing to see if I have issues with fiber.
No this is not about constipation, its about removing the toxins/acids that can build up in liver if you are on a high fat moderate protein diet.
Sources?
Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVrGbG3CJk8
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The only problem with that video is that what we are suggesting is a moderate protein, higher fat way of eating.1
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This videois from 2014... and who's Eric Berg?
He's been in trouble. He's a Chiropractic doctor, and has no training in nutrition.On numerous occasions, Dr. Berg used the designation "Dr." without clarifying that he is a doctor of chiropractic, including in correspondence to Patient Z dated June 21, 2002, in October 2002 and August 2005 advertisements in Dynamic Chiropractic, and on his website. In addition, on Dr. Berg's letterhead and other documents, in advertisements, and on his website, he repeatedly identified his practice as The Health and Wellness Center, without clarifying that it is a chiropractic practice. Further, in an undated flyer sent to Patient Z, entitled "Long Time No See", Dr. Berg used the designation "Dr." with respect to four individuals in his practice who are certified in BRT, without clarifying that these individuals are doctors of chiropractic.1 -
The only problem with that video is that what we are suggesting is a moderate protein, higher fat way of eating.
Yep once I realized that I backed away....AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »This videois from 2014... and who's Eric Berg?
He's been in trouble. He's a Chiropractic doctor, and has no training in nutrition.On numerous occasions, Dr. Berg used the designation "Dr." without clarifying that he is a doctor of chiropractic, including in correspondence to Patient Z dated June 21, 2002, in October 2002 and August 2005 advertisements in Dynamic Chiropractic, and on his website. In addition, on Dr. Berg's letterhead and other documents, in advertisements, and on his website, he repeatedly identified his practice as The Health and Wellness Center, without clarifying that it is a chiropractic practice. Further, in an undated flyer sent to Patient Z, entitled "Long Time No See", Dr. Berg used the designation "Dr." with respect to four individuals in his practice who are certified in BRT, without clarifying that these individuals are doctors of chiropractic.
Doesn't make his information false. People really love to go after each other.1 -
I saw a lot of problems with that video. There weren't any studies mentioned t back up what he is saying. He advocates only 3-4 oz of meat.. he also said that the lean body mass formula for protein is wrong 'doesn't even know where that came from'... HELLO, one google search shows that it was determined based on scientific studies.The only problem with that video is that what we are suggesting is a moderate protein, higher fat way of eating.
Not someone I will take nutritional advice from.3 -
The only problem with that video is that what we are suggesting is a moderate protein, higher fat way of eating.
Yep once I realized that I backed away....AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »This videois from 2014... and who's Eric Berg?
He's been in trouble. He's a Chiropractic doctor, and has no training in nutrition.On numerous occasions, Dr. Berg used the designation "Dr." without clarifying that he is a doctor of chiropractic, including in correspondence to Patient Z dated June 21, 2002, in October 2002 and August 2005 advertisements in Dynamic Chiropractic, and on his website. In addition, on Dr. Berg's letterhead and other documents, in advertisements, and on his website, he repeatedly identified his practice as The Health and Wellness Center, without clarifying that it is a chiropractic practice. Further, in an undated flyer sent to Patient Z, entitled "Long Time No See", Dr. Berg used the designation "Dr." with respect to four individuals in his practice who are certified in BRT, without clarifying that these individuals are doctors of chiropractic.
Doesn't make his information false. People really love to go after each other.
Most MDs don't have any more formal education in nutrition than I do, which is little to none. I have an English degree with Technical Writing cert.
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Doesn't make his information false. People really love to go after each other.
@johnnylew, I'm not going after him, but anyone who practices medicine in a specific sphere, and chooses to withhold that information, and purports expertise in a field he clearly has no long-standing training in, is automatically suspect, as far as I am concerned.
Put it this way: I set more store by Dr Jason Fung, Dr Sarah Hallsberg and Dr Andreas Eenfeldt, than I do this guy.
Even 'Butter Bob' is more credible. At least he's completely honest and open about who HE is....1 -
food_lover16 wrote: »
I saw a lot of problems with that video. There weren't any studies mentioned t back up what he is saying. He advocates only 3-4 oz of meat.. he also said that the lean body mass formula for protein is wrong 'doesn't even know where that came from'... HELLO, one google search shows that it was determined based on scientific studies.The only problem with that video is that what we are suggesting is a moderate protein, higher fat way of eating.
Not someone I will take nutritional advice from.AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Doesn't make his information false. People really love to go after each other.
@johnnylew, I'm not going after him, but anyone who practices medicine in a specific sphere, and chooses to withhold that information, and purports expertise in a field he clearly has no long-standing training in, is automatically suspect, as far as I am concerned.
Put it this way: I set more store by Dr Jason Fung, Dr Sarah Hallsberg and Dr Andreas Eenfeldt, than I do this guy.
Even 'Butter Bob' is more credible. At least he's completely honest and open about who HE is....
Yeah, because his advice to eat green vegetables is sooo crazy, he must be a quack. Who would listen to that kind of advice....Wow...I am done with this thread.0 -
Guys...really? What is in the water today?!4
