5/3/1 Support Thread
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JNick77
Posts: 3,783 Member
Ladies and Gentlemen, the purpose of this thread is to create one spot where people that have bought Jim's book and want to discuss 5/3/1 in more detail, whether it's to ask questions or share experiences and learnings. Let's keep this thread positive and on-topic.
I practiced 5/3/1 for quite a while before switching to a different training system. Although I'm not currently practicing it, I am extremely familiar with the program and am willing to help answer questions. I will be reading 5/3/1 Beyond very soon and hope to become more knowledgeable in some of Jim's newer teachings.
I practiced 5/3/1 for quite a while before switching to a different training system. Although I'm not currently practicing it, I am extremely familiar with the program and am willing to help answer questions. I will be reading 5/3/1 Beyond very soon and hope to become more knowledgeable in some of Jim's newer teachings.
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Good idea. I'm looking forward to reading his new book as well, curious if there're any new ideas he hadn't blogged about.0
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Okay, so I broke down today and bought the book. Holy crap is there some cool stuff in there. I'm will need to read this book about 5 times I think before I get a good handle on everything.
It's ironic that we started talking about this and I got the book today because my bench is still in the toilet. I was going back through some of my training logs that I keep in Excel and my bench was at it's best when I was on 5/3/1. I actually rep'd 225lbs for 10 reps at one point and today I can rep it twice, ****ing pathetic. I really hate to change-up programs but man my bench is not going anywhere I don't think my bench strength is advanced enough for what I've been doing, though the Cube has been amazing for my DL and Squat.
I've only had a cursory read, so I need to read it literally 3 to 4 more time for sure but something about the 5/3/1 SVR speaks to me.0 -
Good idea. I'm looking forward to reading his new book as well, curious if there're any new ideas he hadn't blogged about.
There are some things in here that he wrote on T-Nation or blogs about that the average person may have missed (aka. 5/3/1 Pyramid sets). The Pyramid sets is actually an older take on 5/3/1 that he talked about probably 2 to 3 years ago. Of course the newer concepts are just awesome. I0 -
Someone at my gym told me that Wendler has incorporated some aspects of Cube into a 5/3/1. Is that accurate?0
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Again, I'm still pretty new, only lifting for 9 months, but am I missing something when I figure I could use 5/3/1 for my strength training forever? I mean, it's graduated, slow progress, solid system from a reputable source... why do guys change from systems like this after a few years?0
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Someone at my gym told me that Wendler has incorporated some aspects of Cube into a 5/3/1. Is that accurate?
Not what I can tell. The Cube it pretty different from 5/3/1, even with the updates I think. Now in the book Jim does discuss going for heavy singles and stuff which, Brandon does also support in his book. I guess Jim does cover adding Dynamic Effort work into your workouts but that programming is different from Brandon's in that you don't do DE work every week for each lift, only once every three weeks basically.Again, I'm still pretty new, only lifting for 9 months, but am I missing something when I figure I could use 5/3/1 for my strength training forever? I mean, it's graduated, slow progress, solid system from a reputable source... why do guys change from systems like this after a few years?
With Jim's updates to 5/3/1 I would say that you could potentially use it forever. He covers many different ways to effectively change your training while keeping the core of 5/3/1 in-tact. He also addresses advanced lifters that are benching 2x + their bodyweight and stuff like that. When I was doing 5/3/1 I hit a definite wall to where I could progress any further and that combined with me always wanting to learn more I tried Westside and eventually the Cube. I think with the new additions, particularly working up to a heavy single and AMRAP of your TM; I think that would address some of the issues I had. Basically, I'd hit the wall, reset, and then work my way back up. But those first cycle or two after the reset is pretty light still, and I felt like my body needed to feel the heavy weight on it. I think this will help a lot which is why I like the SVR and Last Set concepts.0 -
Does anybody really get the thought behind "Joke" sets? I get the math and the "why", but I don't understand how. For instance, in week 3 you actually start doing sets at 105%, 115%, and 120% of your training max. Putting that into perspective...
My deadlift 1RM = 405 * .90 = 365
365 * 105% = 380
* 115% = 420
* 120% = 437
Umm... yeah I fail to see how I can do that? Has anybody tried yet? Obviously the point is to get there but to plan that in seems a little aggressive. I kind of like the concept with the SVR to just plan in heavy singles.0 -
I put together a new plan using the Strength Phase and Last Set First w/ Paused Reps (non-deadlift days). Here's what I did today:
a. Deadlift: 3, 3, 3, single, AMRAP @ TM (managed 3 reps)
b. Snatch Grip Deadlift: 5 x 10
c. Sumo Good Mornings: 5 x 10
d. DB Shrugs 5 x 10
e. Back extensions 1 x 50
- Abs
That last set using TM was awesome and yet brutal; I was exhausted after this workout.0 -
Does anybody really get the thought behind "Joke" sets? I get the math and the "why", but I don't understand how. For instance, in week 3 you actually start doing sets at 105%, 115%, and 120% of your training max. Putting that into perspective...
My deadlift 1RM = 405 * .90 = 365
365 * 105% = 380
* 115% = 420
* 120% = 437
Umm... yeah I fail to see how I can do that? Has anybody tried yet? Obviously the point is to get there but to plan that in seems a little aggressive. I kind of like the concept with the SVR to just plan in heavy singles.
don't see how that is possible for any non beginner in 3 weeks?0 -
Does anybody really get the thought behind "Joke" sets? I get the math and the "why", but I don't understand how. For instance, in week 3 you actually start doing sets at 105%, 115%, and 120% of your training max. Putting that into perspective...
My deadlift 1RM = 405 * .90 = 365
365 * 105% = 380
* 115% = 420
* 120% = 437
Umm... yeah I fail to see how I can do that? Has anybody tried yet? Obviously the point is to get there but to plan that in seems a little aggressive. I kind of like the concept with the SVR to just plan in heavy singles.
don't see how that is possible for any non beginner in 3 weeks?
Yeah, I don't get it either. Although he does say that a lot of it is how you're feeling and based on how your training is going. The Joke Sets are definitely not something that I can see anybody doing too often. I think the AMRAP @ TM sets in the Strength Phase are probably the most realistic and still no joke.0 -
The Joker Sets are meant to be like an audible, an ace in your pocket. He calls it "auto-regulation", or programed ways to add to your workout while you're actually in the midst of "playing the game". Although you could attempt them every time, they are meant for you to capitalize on the extra strength/energy you have when you're having a good day at the gym. Giving you more work when you feel like you're up to it. By "definition" then, you will not usually be doing them anyways, although I guess you could if you do away with PR sets.
Now, he actually contradicts himself in the book. At the beginning when he first mentions Jokers, he suggests making the PR and Jokers sets an "either/or" thing. If you feel like the Jokers would help, do the PR set for required reps then go for broke with Jokers.
Later on he is less clear, saying always go for broke with PR sets and then do your Jokers... then he also mentions maybe capping your PR set on Joker days... whatever, the main point I think he is getting at is to decide whether or not you feel like doing Jokers would be benefitial that day, and then adjusting elsewhere if need be. If it means you decide not to go for a PR, and instead go for heavier sets, that's cool and it will help you keep things fresh and feeling good. Of course if you can do it all, more power to you.
About the weight, I had these same problems with Joker sets when I first read them (have not attempted them yet), but when I do I will give myself some slack and do 5% increments to keep it managable and keep the progression steady. So on Wk 3, I would do 100%, 105%, & 110%. That said remember this... those would be singles because the rep scheme for Wk 3 ends in singles (if it were Wk 1 it would be 5s, Wk 2 = 3s), and you can give yourself 5-10 min rest between PR set and Jokers. Also remember the Joker sets are basically till failure (just shy of it), so you might only finish half of the second joker set before calling it a day, and that's ok.
Does that help?0 -
I totally understand the concept behind Joker Sets, I'm just trying to understand "how" the "f" you actually pull it off. Basically, to me it looks like you're basically trying for a new 1RM and just really trying to push the max. Like I've said with other things, you don't know until you try it. LOL. One day I will have to give it a go when I'm feeling good.
I'm definitely on the track for using the Strength Phase and I've setup my next 6-weeks accordingly. I very much like that AMRAP @ Training Max set after your main work sets and then following-up with some backoff sets (paused first set last). Even with the light weight on the OHP, by the 3rd set it actually started to become a little fatiguing to my shoulders and after my workout I could barely get my arms up to wash my hair. I did other accessory work of course but it was an interesting morning to say the least. LOL. I'm really liking the AMRAP @ TM set right now and the paused sets after should be beneficial.0 -
Crap sorry, re-read your posts. Yeah I share your concern about the 1RM, especially since before it was all about that 90% TM and slowly moving the needle. I guess over time he just got a bit more aggressive with his routine, or maybe he realized that periodically he would have a good day where his 1RM was higher than his true baseline.
He did say 5-10% though, so I would just move it up by 5% increments instead of 10%. Seems much more doable, and congruent with the rest of the program. Max lift is just shy of 1RM, but with rounding you end up repping your 1RM. And ****, if after that you can keep moving the needle, why not.0 -
Crap sorry, re-read your posts. Yeah I share your concern about the 1RM, especially since before it was all about that 90% TM and slowly moving the needle. I guess over time he just got a bit more aggressive with his routine, or maybe he realized that periodically he would have a good day where his 1RM was higher than his true baseline.
He did say 5-10% though, so I would just move it up by 5% increments instead of 10%. Seems much more doable, and congruent with the rest of the program. Max lift is just shy of 1RM, but with rounding you end up repping your 1RM. And ****, if after that you can keep moving the needle, why not.
Yeah, I mean if you feel good and you can do 115% of your TM then friggin' go for it. When I read it in the book it almost felt like it's something that should be part of your regular training. Repping your TM is one thing, but blowing past it at 115% to 120% is a different story. It's probably a rare thing but I'm sure Jim recognizes it which is why he indicates auto-regulation.0 -
aaah these joker sets are up to 115% or so of the TM not actual 1rm? That makes more sense and sounds doable. Especially in the earlier phases of 5/3/1.0
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tagging.
p.s., i just purchased beyond 5/3/1, partly because of this thread0 -
aaah these joker sets are up to 115% or so of the TM not actual 1rm? That makes more sense and sounds doable. Especially in the earlier phases of 5/3/1.
Yes, you apply the percentages against your TM, not actual. It's still not something I think people can do regularly. It's most-likely during one of those fantastic sessions where the weight is just moving with tremendous force and everything feels easy.p.s., i just purchased beyond 5/3/1, partly because of this thread
Nice taso! It's well worth the read. I truly feel like Jim filled any holes that were in 5/3/1 with these updates.0 -
Today was my Squat session of 3/3/3 --> TM for reps --> 5sets of 3 paused reps. I hit my TM for a good 3 reps but wasn't feelin' a 4th. I actually intended on doing 5x5 for the paused reps at the end but sitting in the hole for 2 to 3 seconds is brutal and 3 good reps was all I could manage on each set.
This week I've learned that paused reps can be brutal and that I really need to re-focus my accessory work because this strength phase sucks the life out of you. LOL.0 -
paused reps are super brutal. i usually do 1-2 sets on my squat days.0
