5/3/1 Support Thread
Replies
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FYI, did stiff legged deadlifts for the first time last Fri. 5x10 at 135. Felt it more in my back at first... the DOMS in my hammies is something fierce lol
Definitely going to keep this up. Much more interesting exercise to do than stupid leg curls, and I feel it bigtime. Very excited about it.
I know the feel man.
I started with 5x10 at 135 and eventually worked up to 5x10 at 225 and typically stopped around that weight.
My lower back got a lot stronger, but the hammies and glutes always got pretty significant DOMS0 -
Hey I'm sure this is pretty varied, but what rep ranges do you guys use for your assessory work? Up untill now I've been pretty much doing 3x12 for everything. I'm giving some thought to using the rule of 50 for all my assessory work, though that would mean a good hour and a half in the gym each day.
Thoughts?
For chins/pullups I do 6-10 reps.
DB Rows I always do sets of 20+ like Kroc Rows
BB Rows I work in the 10-12 range
And barbell based assistance like SLDLs, close grip bench, shrugs, etc I typically just stick with a 3 sets of 10 .0 -
Hey I'm sure this is pretty varied, but what rep ranges do you guys use for your assessory work? Up untill now I've been pretty much doing 3x12 for everything. I'm giving some thought to using the rule of 50 for all my assessory work, though that would mean a good hour and a half in the gym each day.
Thoughts?
I pretty much follow Jim's recommendations of 5x10 but if I bump the weight up then I won't be able to hit 10-reps on the last couple sets for a few weeks.
- Dips: Working up to 5x10 @ bodyweight and then will be adding weight. It's kinda' sad because I was doing these with a 45lb plate a year ago.
- Chin ups / pull-ups: Can't do 5x10 yet so I just max rep each set
I think one of the keys to saving time, at least for me, and maintaining some intensity is to superset exercises. I'll often do something like:
- Leg press / SLDL
- Back Hyperextensions / Leg Curl
- DB Bench / DB Row
- Chins / Dips
- Curl / <insert tricep exercise>
- Lateral delts / rear delts
Another thing I like to do is drop-sets, either on each set or maybe just on the last set to really exhaust the muscle.
And yes, SLDL's are pretty bomb when it comes to exhausting your posterior chain. Right now I'm trying to find the right balance between keeping supper narrow and going wider.0 -
Hey I'm sure this is pretty varied, but what rep ranges do you guys use for your assessory work? Up untill now I've been pretty much doing 3x12 for everything. I'm giving some thought to using the rule of 50 for all my assessory work, though that would mean a good hour and a half in the gym each day.
Thoughts?
I pretty much follow Jim's recommendations of 5x10 but if I bump the weight up then I won't be able to hit 10-reps on the last couple sets for a few weeks.
- Dips: Working up to 5x10 @ bodyweight and then will be adding weight. It's kinda' sad because I was doing these with a 45lb plate a year ago.
- Chin ups / pull-ups: Can't do 5x10 yet so I just max rep each set
I think one of the keys to saving time, at least for me, and maintaining some intensity is to superset exercises. I'll often do something like:
- Leg press / SLDL
- Back Hyperextensions / Leg Curl
- DB Bench / DB Row
- Chins / Dips
- Curl / <insert tricep exercise>
- Lateral delts / rear delts
Another thing I like to do is drop-sets, either on each set or maybe just on the last set to really exhaust the muscle.
And yes, SLDL's are pretty bomb when it comes to exhausting your posterior chain. Right now I'm trying to find the right balance between keeping supper narrow and going wider.
Supersets... FML lol I'll give them a try one of these days... it's not a bad idea.
As for the SLDLs, yeah very excited about this movement. Not in the least because I have a bad lower back, and these don't do **** to hurt it, which is not what I expected.0 -
Hey I'm sure this is pretty varied, but what rep ranges do you guys use for your assessory work? Up untill now I've been pretty much doing 3x12 for everything. I'm giving some thought to using the rule of 50 for all my assessory work, though that would mean a good hour and a half in the gym each day.
Thoughts?
I pretty much follow Jim's recommendations of 5x10 but if I bump the weight up then I won't be able to hit 10-reps on the last couple sets for a few weeks.
- Dips: Working up to 5x10 @ bodyweight and then will be adding weight. It's kinda' sad because I was doing these with a 45lb plate a year ago.
- Chin ups / pull-ups: Can't do 5x10 yet so I just max rep each set
I think one of the keys to saving time, at least for me, and maintaining some intensity is to superset exercises. I'll often do something like:
- Leg press / SLDL
- Back Hyperextensions / Leg Curl
- DB Bench / DB Row
- Chins / Dips
- Curl / <insert tricep exercise>
- Lateral delts / rear delts
Another thing I like to do is drop-sets, either on each set or maybe just on the last set to really exhaust the muscle.
And yes, SLDL's are pretty bomb when it comes to exhausting your posterior chain. Right now I'm trying to find the right balance between keeping supper narrow and going wider.
Supersets... FML lol I'll give them a try one of these days... it's not a bad idea.
As for the SLDLs, yeah very excited about this movement. Not in the least because I have a bad lower back, and these don't do **** to hurt it, which is not what I expected.
Ha, yes supersets FTW!!! LOl
The left side of my lower back is ****ed and always will be I imagine, so I'm very careful in what I do for posterior chain work. I'm pretty sure I will never do a GM again at this point. When I get the bar down to the bottom, I pause for a second and make sure I engage my hips and squeeze my butt as to alleviate some of the pulling with my lower back. I've also been experimenting with the "Glute Bridge".0 -
Honestly GMs are just too awkward IMO, and you can't go as heavy as you can with SLDLs. They are basically the same movement, and work the same parts. Given a choice, I'd just go with the safer and less awkward movement.0
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Tagging to read later.....
I actually realised reading this thread I've moved back to 5/3/1 - well my own version of it at least, after 1 failed a 240KG\529Lb's Deadlift. Went to 3x5, 3x3, 3x1 and hit it on the 3x1 week.
Agreed on SLDL's vs GM's - GM's just feel wrong, and I never feel I can go heavy enough, SLDL's.. I accidentally SLDL'd 500Lb's once, and didn't feel too bad afterwards (Just awful form DL PB at the time, Hips shot up, so was pretty much SLDL!).
As for assistance, I like to mix one heavy with one high rep - So weighted Dips for 3-6 reps, then Overhead triceps cable extensions for 20 reps, and Lat Raise drop sets - 2 sets totalling 100 reps! That hurts!0 -
Tagging to read later.....
I actually realised reading this thread I've moved back to 5/3/1 - well my own version of it at least, after 1 failed a 240KG\529Lb's Deadlift. Went to 3x5, 3x3, 3x1 and hit it on the 3x1 week.
Agreed on SLDL's vs GM's - GM's just feel wrong, and I never feel I can go heavy enough, SLDL's.. I accidentally SLDL'd 500Lb's once, and didn't feel too bad afterwards (Just awful form DL PB at the time, Hips shot up, so was pretty much SLDL!).
As for assistance, I like to mix one heavy with one high rep - So weighted Dips for 3-6 reps, then Overhead triceps cable extensions for 20 reps, and Lat Raise drop sets - 2 sets totalling 100 reps! That hurts!
For me I don't know that GM's necessarily feel awkward because I'm not afraid to go lighter and build-up my strength; it's just that the way I hurt my back they seem to exaggerate some of my issues there. I was experiencing some very bad pain recently and I dropped the GM's from my routine and it's been better.
I like your approach to assistance work, kinda' reminds me of some recommendations that Louie Simmons made on Tricep work.0 -
Why would you bother with GMs in the first place though, are they so different from SLDLs?0
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Why would you bother with GMs in the first place though, are they so different from SLDLs?
The weight is held in a different position which requires different leverage to move it. Think about how much weight you can lift via SLDL versus GM. I remember doing GM's for the very first time after having done SLDL's for a while and having some different DOM's in my hamstrings and glutes. I kind of think the GM works it better but my back doesn't seem to tolerate it very well anymore.0 -
Why would you bother with GMs in the first place though, are they so different from SLDLs?
The weight is held in a different position which requires different leverage to move it. Think about how much weight you can lift via SLDL versus GM. I remember doing GM's for the very first time after having done SLDL's for a while and having some different DOM's in my hamstrings and glutes. I kind of think the GM works it better but my back doesn't seem to tolerate it very well anymore.
My hammies are sore, but my glutes are fine. Possible the GM hits the glutes more?0 -
Why would you bother with GMs in the first place though, are they so different from SLDLs?
The weight is held in a different position which requires different leverage to move it. Think about how much weight you can lift via SLDL versus GM. I remember doing GM's for the very first time after having done SLDL's for a while and having some different DOM's in my hamstrings and glutes. I kind of think the GM works it better but my back doesn't seem to tolerate it very well anymore.
My hammies are sore, but my glutes are fine. Possible the GM hits the glutes more?
It's possible, I couldn't say for sure. They are both very similar but the GM is definitely the more difficult of the two.0 -
Tagging to read later.....
I actually realised reading this thread I've moved back to 5/3/1 - well my own version of it at least, after 1 failed a 240KG\529Lb's Deadlift. Went to 3x5, 3x3, 3x1 and hit it on the 3x1 week.
Agreed on SLDL's vs GM's - GM's just feel wrong, and I never feel I can go heavy enough, SLDL's.. I accidentally SLDL'd 500Lb's once, and didn't feel too bad afterwards (Just awful form DL PB at the time, Hips shot up, so was pretty much SLDL!).
As for assistance, I like to mix one heavy with one high rep - So weighted Dips for 3-6 reps, then Overhead triceps cable extensions for 20 reps, and Lat Raise drop sets - 2 sets totalling 100 reps! That hurts!
For me I don't know that GM's necessarily feel awkward because I'm not afraid to go lighter and build-up my strength; it's just that the way I hurt my back they seem to exaggerate some of my issues there. I was experiencing some very bad pain recently and I dropped the GM's from my routine and it's been better.
I like your approach to assistance work, kinda' reminds me of some recommendations that Louie Simmons made on Tricep work.
Cheers!! I read it online somewhere, tried it, and liked it, so stuck with. Got a few joint issues holding my bench back at the moment, so can't do dips as heavy as I normally do (Dipping around +40KG\88lbs at the moment), but this way means I get to do some nice heavy work, and then bring out my evil sadistic side (If you train triceps and can take off your own T-Shirt you didn't train them enough!).
Shoulder size really kicked up a level when I upped the volume on them as well, and I like Strict Overhead Press, so I keep that one as my heavy shoulder work0 -
Cheers!! I read it online somewhere, tried it, and liked it, so stuck with. Got a few joint issues holding my bench back at the moment, so can't do dips as heavy as I normally do (Dipping around +40KG\88lbs at the moment), but this way means I get to do some nice heavy work, and then bring out my evil sadistic side (If you train triceps and can take off your own T-Shirt you didn't train them enough!).
Shoulder size really kicked up a level when I upped the volume on them as well, and I like Strict Overhead Press, so I keep that one as my heavy shoulder work
Ha, nice! It's funny but I really hit my Tri's good on Bench day and I do have trouble lifting my arms.
The OHP is probably one reason why I really like 5/3/1. With 5/3/1 you don't train it solely as an accessory movement, but it's get full-time focus. I've found that I can never develop strength in that lift very well outside of 5/3/1. I can kinda' say the same thing about my bench actually... OHP day is also the one reason why I wear t-shirts with no sleeves, my sleeves and top of shirt just get all bunch up and looking even stupider than with the sleeves cut off. LOL0 -
Alright, so today was the start of my 3rd cycle 5/3/1+ week and today was Deadlifting.
a. Deadlift 5/3/1 - 305 for 5 / 345 for 3 / 385 for 1 / 410 for 1 (new weight PR!) / 345 for 6
b1. Oly Squats 5 x 10
b2. SL DL 5 x 10
c. barbell shrugs 5 x 8
abs x 50 reps
interval sprints
<done>
I kinda' wanted to attack my quads more today but I didn't want to fry my legs as I still have to squat on Friday, but come Friday... quads beware. LOL0 -
I have never felt my hammies on a deadlift before... after doing SLDLs last Fri, yesterday's DLs were tough as **** lol
Incidentally, 5/3/1 wk 3 DL @ 280 for weight and rep PR. Hit it for ten and put the damn thing down.0 -
I have never felt my hammies on a deadlift before... after doing SLDLs last Fri, yesterday's DLs were tough as **** lol
Incidentally, 5/3/1 wk 3 DL @ 280 for weight and rep PR. Hit it for ten and put the damn thing down.
Experiment with leg positioning when doing SLDL's. I've found that going super narrow or sumo-stance (ankles outside of knees) definitely elicits a different response to the movement from your post chain. On DL day maybe do narrow and on Squat day do sumo maybe.0 -
I have never felt my hammies on a deadlift before... after doing SLDLs last Fri, yesterday's DLs were tough as **** lol
Incidentally, 5/3/1 wk 3 DL @ 280 for weight and rep PR. Hit it for ten and put the damn thing down.
Experiment with leg positioning when doing SLDL's. I've found that going super narrow or sumo-stance (ankles outside of knees) definitely elicits a different response to the movement from your post chain. On DL day maybe do narrow and on Squat day do sumo maybe.
You mean sumo for the SLDLs?0 -
I have never felt my hammies on a deadlift before... after doing SLDLs last Fri, yesterday's DLs were tough as **** lol
Incidentally, 5/3/1 wk 3 DL @ 280 for weight and rep PR. Hit it for ten and put the damn thing down.
Experiment with leg positioning when doing SLDL's. I've found that going super narrow or sumo-stance (ankles outside of knees) definitely elicits a different response to the movement from your post chain. On DL day maybe do narrow and on Squat day do sumo maybe.
You mean sumo for the SLDLs?
Yes sir.
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I have never felt my hammies on a deadlift before... after doing SLDLs last Fri, yesterday's DLs were tough as **** lol
Incidentally, 5/3/1 wk 3 DL @ 280 for weight and rep PR. Hit it for ten and put the damn thing down.
Experiment with leg positioning when doing SLDL's. I've found that going super narrow or sumo-stance (ankles outside of knees) definitely elicits a different response to the movement from your post chain. On DL day maybe do narrow and on Squat day do sumo maybe.
You mean sumo for the SLDLs?
Yes sir.
Excellent idea.0 -
i remember trying the sumo stance SLDL's. Felt really weird but it definitely worked areas I of my glutes/hammies that I had never really "felt" before.0
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Excellent idea.
Ha, wish I could take credit for it. I think I ready about it in a Ben Bruno article somewhere.i remember trying the sumo stance SLDL's. Felt really weird but it definitely worked areas I of my glutes/hammies that I had never really "felt" before.
Agreed, it does feel a little awkward.0 -
Would I derail the thread if I asked for a form check?0
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Not at all. This thread or the Powerlifters forum is the right place for that, better than the general public's fitness forum.0
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http://youtu.be/aTmyqUFjs3E
Advise please.
I can't seem to avoid the butt wink, and my knees go forward a bit. I'm 5'4".
Things I do/know:
1) Hands outside shoulder by just a bit, elbows in an forward.
2) Squating high bar.
3) Break at the knees.
4) Curve butt out.
5) Bar over feet.
6) Spead knees outward.0 -
Well, that's a tough one to be honest. I know that sometimes it happens to me but not always. It doesn't seem to be overly prominent with you though. One thing that I've heard from the JTS site is that it could have something to do with flexibility. Make sure you're stretching and stuff I guess. Maybe Chris or somebody better at this will chime-in.0
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really doesn't look too bad to me, only a small amount of butt wink and I'd say that's just because you are going very deep. If you stopped an 1" or 2" higher you'd be all good IMO.
http://bretcontreras.com/squat-biomechanics-butt-wink-what-is-it-what-causes-it-how-can-it-be-improved/ may be helpful 0 -
One thing I noticed was that I had a fair amount of forward movement on the final reps, and my knees are still coming out in front of my feet, but I just can't open my hips anymore than I am. I'm not trying to make excuses, but I think the tall guys have the advantage on that one.0
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One thing I noticed was that I had a fair amount of forward movement on the final reps, and my knees are still coming out in front of my feet, but I just can't open my hips anymore than I am. I'm not trying to make excuses, but I think the tall guys have the advantage on that one.
That COULD (don't quote me...)be related to quad dominance and a need to build strength in your posterior chain. If your quads are taking over that could be the issue, more SLDL and Back Hyperextensions. LOL0 -
OHP 5/3/1+ Day - Cycle 3
Wow did I have a good workout today, couldn't have been much better. I hit two PR's today. Previously I hit 165 for 2 which calculated out is about 170lbs. Today I hit 175lbs for a single, w000000t!!! Nice Joker Set huh? I felt good after that and tried for 180lbs. I got it up past my forehead but couldn't finish it, almost passed-out. LOL! Then on my pyramid back down I hit 145lbs for 7 reps and previously my best was 6, but that 6 reps wasn't after establishing a new PR 1RM, so I felt really good about that too. I need to establish a new TM for the next cycle. I even got 3 sets of 10 solid reps on my chin-ups but had to rest-pause my last set to get the 10 reps.
a. OHP 5 @ 120 / 3 @ 135 / 1@145 / 1@160 / 1@ 175 / 1+ @ 145 (7) / 3+ @ 135 (6 paused reps)
b. Neutral Grip DB OHP 2 x 15+ (1st set 18 reps / 2nd set 12 reps)
c1. Chin-ups 4 x max
c2. Dips 4x10
d1. Hammer Strength Lat Pulldowns 5 x 6-8
d2. Tricep Pressdowns 5 x 6-8
e1. Lat Raises 3 x Drop Sets, min of 8 reps on first set. Lost count, ended-up being about 90 total reps.0
