5/3/1 Support Thread
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Alright man, I'll take any prolonged absense from the website as an indication that things went poorly lol0
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Alright man, I'll take any prolonged absense from the website as an indication that things went poorly lol
I already take 400mg's of caffeine before every workout to wake myself up and get my metabolism going, so I'm not worried about the supplement at all. I'm more concerned about pissing away $30 on another supplement that doesn't work. Although with everything that's in it, caffeine, creatine, beta alanine, some bcaa's, it's actually not of horrible value. We'll see, I'll try it for a month. Like I said, the fact that some real research was done on it, there were no conflicting interests in the study, and it had some pretty solid results speaks a lot about the product in my mind.0 -
Well hey man, you were *ahem* ARE a good man jnick. lol jk0
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Bump for later reading0
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I've been checking out Muscle Pharm's Assault. Lots of good reviews and from what I can tell, no super funky ingredients. Im just tired of backing down from lifts simply because I dont have the focus. I have to lift at 5Am (2 kids, 4 years old and 8 weeks) and thats the only time where I'm not taking time away from my family.
right now Im just drinking coffe pre and BCAA's intra, whey and creatine post.-lifting.0 -
I've been checking out Muscle Pharm's Assault. Lots of good reviews and from what I can tell, no super funky ingredients. Im just tired of backing down from lifts simply because I dont have the focus. I have to lift at 5Am (2 kids, 4 years old and 8 weeks) and thats the only time where I'm not taking time away from my family.
right now Im just drinking coffe pre and BCAA's intra, whey and creatine post.-lifting.
If you just need something to wake you up, then find some kind of Caffeine pill (200mg) and take 2 of them before you lift with some creatine mono. Much cheaper in the long run. I workout early too but I do an evening carb-load so I actually don't' eat or drink anything other than water before I lift. If I remember Assault has a lot of carbs in it, may not be ideal that early in the morning but I guess you have to try it for yourself and find out.0 -
Yesterday was my DL session and I hit 415 for a new 1RM! I was surprised that I did it too. My 2nd Joker Set of 3 x 390 was brutal for some reason. I'm pretty certain I could've gotten 420 to be honest, oh well maybe next week.
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nice work J! gotta love those joker sets! you doing first set last too? Or BBB?Yesterday was my DL session and I hit 415 for a new 1RM! I was surprised that I did it too. My 2nd Joker Set of 3 x 390 was brutal for some reason. I'm pretty certain I could've gotten 420 to be honest, oh well maybe next week.0 -
nice work J! gotta love those joker sets! you doing first set last too? Or BBB?Yesterday was my DL session and I hit 415 for a new 1RM! I was surprised that I did it too. My 2nd Joker Set of 3 x 390 was brutal for some reason. I'm pretty certain I could've gotten 420 to be honest, oh well maybe next week.
I'm actually doing Joker + FSL + BBB opposite exercise. This way I can get the extra volume in with the FSL but not be redundant with my BBB lift. Plus, I kinda like doing the lifts twice a week.
Day 1: 5/3/1 Squat w/ Sumo DL's (yeah, gonna try Sumo...)
Day 2: 5/3/1 OHP w/ DB Bench Press (I've always felt my bench was better when I was getting some DB work in)
Day 3: 5/3/1 DL w/ Squats
Day 4: 5/3/1 Bench Press w/ DB OHP0 -
Okay, total noob here. Hippoing to ask what is probably a really stupid question. I just started 5/3/1 and I like the idea that it's a relatively quick routine. I'm worried result wise how it fares against my previous random routine of lifting. I'm looking to gain strength while lower my BF %. I'm eating at a deficit as well, which I know will probably hinder some progress. Example of my old routine
Monday bench, squat, curls, row 3-5 sets of 10 of about 90% of 1 rep max
Wednesday same as Mon but switch squat with deads and bench for ohp
Friday is essentially Mondays routine. Throw in curls? (I hate curls)
5/3/1 seems much less complex but I was worried about continuing my goals.
I have the book, love it. There's benefit of staggering the weights? Like deloading of other lifts on days where other lifts are 5/3/1.
I apologize if this is a confusing muddled mess of questions. I'm very new to lifting (4 months learning on my own). My BIL left his bench press and weights in my garage and I started doing leg lifts and bench press, which turned into so much more.
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No worries Phoenix! I would highly suggest starting with a full body version of 5/3/1. I started by following a format like this:Okay, total noob here. Hippoing to ask what is probably a really stupid question. I just started 5/3/1 and I like the idea that it's a relatively quick routine. I'm worried result wise how it fares against my previous random routine of lifting. I'm looking to gain strength while lower my BF %. I'm eating at a deficit as well, which I know will probably hinder some progress. Example of my old routine
Monday bench, squat, curls, row 3-5 sets of 10 of about 90% of 1 rep max
Wednesday same as Mon but switch squat with deads and bench for ohp
Friday is essentially Mondays routine. Throw in curls? (I hate curls)
5/3/1 seems much less complex but I was worried about continuing my goals.
I have the book, love it. There's benefit of staggering the weights? Like deloading of other lifts on days where other lifts are 5/3/1.
I apologize if this is a confusing muddled mess of questions. I'm very new to lifting (4 months learning on my own). My BIL left his bench press and weights in my garage and I started doing leg lifts and bench press, which turned into so much more.
Monday
• Squat – 3 sets of 5-10 reps (using deload percentages)
• Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Bench – 3 sets of 8-20 reps
*assistance lifts for deadlift - lunges, one leg split squats, stiff leg deads, good mornings, etc... Pick 2-3 do a couple sets of 10-20 reps
Wednesday
• Squat – 3 sets of 5-10 reps (using deload percentages)
• Bench Press – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Row – 3 sets or do Kroc Rows
*assistance lift for bench - incline, OHP, dumbbell bench, etc... Pick 2-3 do a couple sets of 10-20
Friday
• Squat – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Press – 5/3/1 sets and reps
• Chins – 3-5 sets of 5-10 (or however many you can do in one set)
*assistance lifts for squat - front squats, lunges, one leg split squats, Pick 2-3 do a couple sets of 10-20 reps. I added lateral raises or incline presses here as assistance for OHP, just one lift, 2-3 sets of 10-20.
Remember to keep it simple and don't major in the minors. Put the work in on the main lifts, assistance is just supposed to be exactly that, assistance.
Eating at a deficit will inhibit muscle growth, but a lot of strength comes from neurological adaptation, especially in the beginning stage, so I would just keep on doing what you are doing there especially if it's working for you.
Hope that helps... Feel free to add me or post questions any time. People are generally happy to help.0 -
Just remember to follow the deloads exactly how he has them set. Remember a deload is not a RESET, they are two different things. The training cycle goes, 3 5/3/1 week, 3 5/3/1 weeks / deload then repeat. If you need to reset a lift then do it after the 3-week cycle is over. Follow the deloads as prescribed.
As far as the training days are concerned, Jim has a good split on page 43 of Beyond 5/3/1 that I would recommend following. Sluggz has some good information there for you but I think it might be too much volume for you. If you were eating at least at maintenance levels I would be all for it. You might be fine with it through the first or even second training cycle but I think you might start feeling worn out even after the first deload. Remember that even with the 3-day split on page 43, you can add Joker Sets and First Set Last (FSL) to the 5/3/1 sets for extra volume. Here's an example of what one of my days might look like if I used that 3-day split and wanted more volume:
Day 1 (5/5/5+ Week)
a. Squat
5 @ 190
5 @ 225
5+ @ 245 (definitely go for reps here)
5 @ 275 (Joker set 1 - If I get all 5 reps then do Joker 2)
5 @ 305 (Joker set 2 - If I get all 5 reps then do Joker 3)
2 @ 320 (Joker 3)
5+ @ 190 (FSL set - rep this **** out)
b. DB Bench Press 5x10
c. DB Rows 5x10
- Abs
- Cardio
Now if I felt like @ss going into the gym that morning, then after my 5+ set I would probably just do the FSL set, do the two other exercises and go home. Your goals are very obtainable as long as your diet is in-place to support it.
- 5/3/1 Full Body Template - Page 43
- Joker Sets - Pages 31 - 33 (use the table for percentages on page 33)
- First Set Last - Page 12 -140 -
Sluggz and Jnick77- Thank you for the advice! I dont have the book beyond 5/3/ but I can look into buying it in the next few weeks. I like the routine you suggested sluggz. Would it be bad to incorporate a deload day of deads maybe Friday? I don't want to overdo it, but I love deads. I was reading after the 4 weeks, if I can't progress forward, I could continue the same routine as the previous cycle? I was thinking though, of making a bear minimum of going up by 2.5 lbs upper and 5 lbs lower each cycle. I have 10 lbs left to lose and then I plan to stick to maintenance until I'm satisfied with recomp.0
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Sluggz and Jnick77- Thank you for the advice! I dont have the book beyond 5/3/ but I can look into buying it in the next few weeks. I like the routine you suggested sluggz. Would it be bad to incorporate a deload day of deads maybe Friday? I don't want to overdo it, but I love deads. I was reading after the 4 weeks, if I can't progress forward, I could continue the same routine as the previous cycle? I was thinking though, of making a bear minimum of going up by 2.5 lbs upper and 5 lbs lower each cycle. I have 10 lbs left to lose and then I plan to stick to maintenance until I'm satisfied with recomp.
All I can say is please get the book before beginning 5/3/1. You're asking basic questions that address all your questions. It sounds like what you read is giving you bad information. I promise you, if you do it as Jim writes you will be fine. You won't have to throw in any deload days or any nonsense. If you stray from the program then you won't be successful with it. There are a lot of options in 5/3/1 to help you be successful in your goals but trying to "Frankenstein" the program will only frustrate you. If you like deadlifting often there is a 4-day split called Boring But Big and you can actually work it out to DL twice per week. I do. 0 -
JNick- I will go back and reread some of 5/3/1. I will admit, I did a lot of skimming. I definitely don't want to deviate or mess up what should be a simple routine. I think I'm just paranoid about not utilizing time efficiently and getting the best work out I can each week. Sorry
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Which book do you have Phoenix?0
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It's just 5/3/1. I've downloaded it on my phone through Kindle.0
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Does it say which edition? The reason I ask is that I have the 2nd edition and I don't know what is different between the two. But there are is a section where he outlines full body training. At least I know in the 2nd edition there is a section called 5/3/1 for beginners where he outlines something like what I put above.I strongly recommend following it as written in the beginning. I understand wanting to do more, but you'll get the most benefit from it by following the plan. That being said, if you want to do something on off days, conditioning work and/or bodyweight stuff is acceptable I believe. Find a hill and do sprints, jump rope, box jumps, med ball throws, push-ups, chins, etc... I think stuff like that would be fine. Just remember to allow time to recover.
Point is, keep it simple in the beginning. Emphasize big, multi-joint movements, Start too light, Progress slowly, and Break PR's. 5/3/1 isn't a program for fast rewards, it's about building strength brick by brick. It's not a 30 day shred or 10 minute abs, as Jim says in the book, "The game of lifting isn't an 8 week pursuit. It doesn't last as long as your latest program does. Rather, it's a lifetime pursuit. If you understand this, then progressing slowly isn't a big deal."0 -
The cover is red but it doesn't say the edition. Hmm. Anyway, I will absolutely not deviate and will dedicate myself to the program, as written. See where it gets me and how I like it after a few months. It's got to be better than just doing random lifts when I feel like, like I have been, so I shouldn't doubt it Thanks so much for the help. I'm very excited to progress and push myself. 0
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I think that's the first edition. I've read them both, and I couldn't find the differences. I think maybe he elaborated more on nutrition...
Bottom line the program was unchanged.
FYI You can also buy Beyond as an eBook, that's what I did. Beyond is really just a companion book to the original, introducing a ton of different variations on his program that he agrees with. But it's a great addition, and where I discovered BBB Temp 2, Var 2 that I use now.
You can do the full body routine, or you can just do the regular 4 days with Boring But Big template. The meat and potatoes is the 5/3/1 lifts though, what you decide to do for assistance work is up to you, though you should always remember to keep it simple, and know exactly WHY you are doing the things you choose to do.0 -
The cover is red but it doesn't say the edition. Hmm. Anyway, I will absolutely not deviate and will dedicate myself to the program, as written. See where it gets me and how I like it after a few months. It's got to be better than just doing random lifts when I feel like, like I have been, so I shouldn't doubt it Thanks so much for the help. I'm very excited to progress and push myself.
you're welcome! give it a a few cycles, as written, and see how it goes. the red one is the first edition. Not sure how it is different from the 2nd.
good luck!0 -
Oh, one key difference that I would recommend you take advantage of, is the new cycle from Beyond 5/3/1.
Go two cycles, then take a deload week. then another two cycles, etc... So 6 weeks on, 1 week deload.0 -
Oh, one key difference that I would recommend you take advantage of, is the new cycle from Beyond 5/3/1.
Go two cycles, then take a deload week. then another two cycles, etc... So 6 weeks on, 1 week deload.
Quick very noob lifting question. What purpose does a deload week serve? Is it in a way rest to help muscle recovery to push into the next cycle?0 -
yes, and supply a mental break too.Oh, one key difference that I would recommend you take advantage of, is the new cycle from Beyond 5/3/1.
Go two cycles, then take a deload week. then another two cycles, etc... So 6 weeks on, 1 week deload.
Quick very noob lifting question. What purpose does a deload week serve? Is it in a way rest to help muscle recovery to push into the next cycle?0 -
Oh, one key difference that I would recommend you take advantage of, is the new cycle from Beyond 5/3/1.
Go two cycles, then take a deload week. then another two cycles, etc... So 6 weeks on, 1 week deload.
Agreed. Probably don't look at Beyond 5/3/1 as a companion to the original but really more of an enhancement. The core principles he uses pretty much remain unchanged but he enhances the method by providing some alternatives that focus on volume, full body, max effort, even, some Olympic lifts. He even indicated in the book that he feels the full-body template he provides is superior to the one he provided previously. It's well worth the $30 or whatever it was.
I think the big difference between editions 1 and 2 was that accessory work was addressed in a little more detail in the 2nd edition.Point is, keep it simple in the beginning. Emphasize big, multi-joint movements, Start too light, Progress slowly, and Break PR's. 5/3/1 isn't a program for fast rewards, it's about building strength brick by brick. It's not a 30 day shred or 10 minute abs, as Jim says in the book, "The game of lifting isn't an 8 week pursuit. It doesn't last as long as your latest program does. Rather, it's a lifetime pursuit. If you understand this, then progressing slowly isn't a big deal."
The one thing that I think is interesting is that even though you don't add plates as quickly as you would with say StrongLifts 5x5, your overall strength does seem to increase rapidly. You can really see it more now with things like Joker Sets. I'm not even finished with my 4th 3-week cycle yet and I've already made some great gains in my 1RM.
- Deadlift +10lbs
- Squat I did a very conservative reset so I'm not 100% sure where I'm at yet.
- Bench Press +20lbs - could be more, I will find out this Saturday
- OHP + 25lbs
If that's slow, then I would be amazed at what fast was.0 -
Awesome gains J! I absolutely LOVE the addition of the joker sets and FSL. Those 2 things are my biggest take away from Beyond 5/3/1.The one thing that I think is interesting is that even though you don't add plates as quickly as you would with say StrongLifts 5x5, your overall strength does seem to increase rapidly. You can really see it more now with things like Joker Sets. I'm not even finished with my 4th 3-week cycle yet and I've already made some great gains in my 1RM.
- Deadlift +10lbs
- Squat I did a very conservative reset so I'm not 100% sure where I'm at yet.
- Bench Press +20lbs - could be more, I will find out this Saturday
- OHP + 25lbs
If that's slow, then I would be amazed at what fast was.0 -
Awesome gains J! I absolutely LOVE the addition of the joker sets and FSL. Those 2 things are my biggest take away from Beyond 5/3/1.The one thing that I think is interesting is that even though you don't add plates as quickly as you would with say StrongLifts 5x5, your overall strength does seem to increase rapidly. You can really see it more now with things like Joker Sets. I'm not even finished with my 4th 3-week cycle yet and I've already made some great gains in my 1RM.
- Deadlift +10lbs
- Squat I did a very conservative reset so I'm not 100% sure where I'm at yet.
- Bench Press +20lbs - could be more, I will find out this Saturday
- OHP + 25lbs
If that's slow, then I would be amazed at what fast was.
Yeah, the Joker Sets are an incredible addition to 5/3/1. I was doing 5/3/1 Pyramiding way back in 1st and 2nd edition days so that and FSL isn't really new; it just has a name now. LOL! I think the Joker Sets is probably the single biggest addition because it gives you a structured method to really push the limits on the weight. Between Pyramiding and BBB the volume has always been there, but for me at least, lacking in any heavy work was really lacking. That was one reason I really liked using Westside, in that every week you'd push for some heavy weight. Now 5/3/1 incorporates the best of both worlds and I feel that it's pretty complete. I'm not sure how it is for competitive powerlifters but for your average Joe and even athletes it's pretty damn good.0 -
Oh, one key difference that I would recommend you take advantage of, is the new cycle from Beyond 5/3/1.
Go two cycles, then take a deload week. then another two cycles, etc... So 6 weeks on, 1 week deload.
Agreed. Probably don't look at Beyond 5/3/1 as a companion to the original but really more of an enhancement. The core principles he uses pretty much remain unchanged but he enhances the method by providing some alternatives that focus on volume, full body, max effort, even, some Olympic lifts. He even indicated in the book that he feels the full-body template he provides is superior to the one he provided previously. It's well worth the $30 or whatever it was.
I think the big difference between editions 1 and 2 was that accessory work was addressed in a little more detail in the 2nd edition.Point is, keep it simple in the beginning. Emphasize big, multi-joint movements, Start too light, Progress slowly, and Break PR's. 5/3/1 isn't a program for fast rewards, it's about building strength brick by brick. It's not a 30 day shred or 10 minute abs, as Jim says in the book, "The game of lifting isn't an 8 week pursuit. It doesn't last as long as your latest program does. Rather, it's a lifetime pursuit. If you understand this, then progressing slowly isn't a big deal."
The one thing that I think is interesting is that even though you don't add plates as quickly as you would with say StrongLifts 5x5, your overall strength does seem to increase rapidly. You can really see it more now with things like Joker Sets. I'm not even finished with my 4th 3-week cycle yet and I've already made some great gains in my 1RM.
- Deadlift +10lbs
- Squat I did a very conservative reset so I'm not 100% sure where I'm at yet.
- Bench Press +20lbs - could be more, I will find out this Saturday
- OHP + 25lbs
If that's slow, then I would be amazed at what fast was.
That is awesome! I looked into doing an actual routine as I am lucky to push +5 lbs in several months here lately. I think my noob gain window is dead
In addition to having no clear set strategy to achieve what I wanted. 0 -
Oh, one key difference that I would recommend you take advantage of, is the new cycle from Beyond 5/3/1.
Go two cycles, then take a deload week. then another two cycles, etc... So 6 weeks on, 1 week deload.
Agreed. Probably don't look at Beyond 5/3/1 as a companion to the original but really more of an enhancement. The core principles he uses pretty much remain unchanged but he enhances the method by providing some alternatives that focus on volume, full body, max effort, even, some Olympic lifts. He even indicated in the book that he feels the full-body template he provides is superior to the one he provided previously. It's well worth the $30 or whatever it was.
I think the big difference between editions 1 and 2 was that accessory work was addressed in a little more detail in the 2nd edition.Point is, keep it simple in the beginning. Emphasize big, multi-joint movements, Start too light, Progress slowly, and Break PR's. 5/3/1 isn't a program for fast rewards, it's about building strength brick by brick. It's not a 30 day shred or 10 minute abs, as Jim says in the book, "The game of lifting isn't an 8 week pursuit. It doesn't last as long as your latest program does. Rather, it's a lifetime pursuit. If you understand this, then progressing slowly isn't a big deal."
The one thing that I think is interesting is that even though you don't add plates as quickly as you would with say StrongLifts 5x5, your overall strength does seem to increase rapidly. You can really see it more now with things like Joker Sets. I'm not even finished with my 4th 3-week cycle yet and I've already made some great gains in my 1RM.
- Deadlift +10lbs
- Squat I did a very conservative reset so I'm not 100% sure where I'm at yet.
- Bench Press +20lbs - could be more, I will find out this Saturday
- OHP + 25lbs
If that's slow, then I would be amazed at what fast was.
That is awesome! I looked into doing an actual routine as I am lucky to push +5 lbs in several months here lately. I think my noob gain window is dead In addition to having no clear set strategy to achieve what I wanted.
Your window is probably not dead, it may not have been opened far enough in the first place.
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Your window is probably not dead, it may not have been opened far enough in the first place.
^100% agree with this. Wise words J...
I know for me, until I found 5/3/1 I never really had a clear cut plan. I was just going tonot making the progress I wanted... 5/3/1 made me set goals, set records and most importantly, put more weight on the bar after every cycle. My deadlift has gone from 185 1RM to 390 1RM in a little over a year and a half. I'm 5 pounds from a 300 bench (never did over 250 before 5/3/1) Squat and OHP are similar results.
Point is, The window is there, you may only have just found it.0
