5/3/1 Support Thread
Replies
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Had a great OHP session today. I'm still on my 3/3/3 week (2nd cycle) and I hit my 5lbs over my training max for 5 reps, it felt great. It's so nice to have a session to focus on my OHP again. The Paused Sets for my last set kicked my *kitten* though.0
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Regarding accessory work, what's your approach to the weight, sets, and reps? Do you mirror the main lift in terms of the intensity? That is, on the 65%-75%-85% (5/5/5+) week, do you dial back the weight a little on accessories and go for more reps? And on the 5/3/1+ week, increase the weight a little and decrease reps?
Or is not relevant to the lift and you maintain the weight/reps and/or increase it as necessary?0 -
Regarding accessory work, what's your approach to the weight, sets, and reps? Do you mirror the main lift in terms of the intensity? That is, on the 65%-75%-85% (5/5/5+) week, do you dial back the weight a little on accessories and go for more reps? And on the 5/3/1+ week, increase the weight a little and decrease reps?
Or is not relevant to the lift and you maintain the weight/reps and/or increase it as necessary?
I dont necessarily program my accessories. It's kind of a "play it by ear" thing. The important thing is the main lift, some days you still feel okay after it, other days you're dead and maybe you'll just hit a few sets of assitance and go home.
The main thing is to slowly increase volume or intensity over time. If you're doing rows with 135x10 for 5 sets now, ideally you won't be doing rows with 135 in 8 months, unless you're doing more reps per set. You'd want to shoot for heavier weight over time. At least that's been my approach.
I do chins/pullups a lot, and say this cycle I do 7 chins after each set of bench. Next month, I'll be trying for 8 chins after each set.0 -
My approach to accessory work is largely based on how I'm feeling. I do pre-write a lifting plan but I definitely execute based on how I actually feel. How I feel during / after my the main lift's worksets determines what I do next. Right now I'm following the Strength Phase version I do pyramid based on JW's suggestion, and I added the First Set Last as Paused Reps (except for the DL of course). So, by the end of all that I'm generally a little fried. For example, here's what today's plan looked like:
**Doing these is based on feel or if I want to do something else instead.
A. Squat: 1 x 3 / 1 x 3 / 1 x 3 / 1 x 1 / 1 @ 10lbs+ of TM for AMRAP / set 3 for 3+, set 2 for 3+, set 1 for 3-5 x 3-5 paused reps.
**B. Olympic Squats 2 - 5 x 10
B / C: Straight Leg DL: 5x10
**C1 / D1: Back Hyperextenions 2 x 25
**C1 / D2: Leg Curls 2 x 25
Abs - Sprinter Situps for 50 reps
I didn't feel 100% recovered from my DL session on Tuesday and I was about fried after doing the squats. Counting my warm-ups sets I total 13 sets alone of just squatting. I will say that I do tend to get exercise "B" in on my 5/5/5+ week because the intensity is lower as the 5/5/5+ week of the Strength Phase does not include heavy singles. On those days I truly go for volume.
General plan:
- DL Day
A) DL
Snatch-Grip Deadlift for 3-5 x10
The rest will vary by cycle depending on how I want to approach but generally I focus on Posterior Chain work
abs
- OHP Day
A) OHP Neutral DB OHP: 2 x 15+ reps (minimum of 15)
As above it varies but I focus on upper back, tri's, and typically throw a bicep exercise in there. I like to include Dips and Chins
abs
- Bench Day
A) Bench
B1) DB Bench: 2 x 15+ reps (min of 15)
B2) Kroc Rows: 2 x 15+ reps (min of 15)
As OHP day...
Abs
Depending on time I like to do some kind of cardio, high-rep medicine ball slams, interval sprints, tire flips, or a fast mile.0 -
I can't believe it's only been a month and I'm having such great progress already. Right now my bench is a real progress indicator for me because I somehow managed to go backwards in strength the last few months, it's rather embarrassing actually. My Training Max for my bench is currently 215. Prior to getting back into 5/3/1 I could only get 225 for 2 rather strained reps. Saturday I just did my TM for 1 rep and then I racked 225. I hit 225 for a solid 5 reps and would've tried a 6th if I had a spotter but wasn't feeling great about doing a 6th on my own. Man did it feel great to be finally moving 225 again for reps. Hopefully in another month or two I can get it back to my rep-PR of 10 reps and even exceed it.0
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Very nice!I can't believe it's only been a month and I'm having such great progress already. Right now my bench is a real progress indicator for me because I somehow managed to go backwards in strength the last few months, it's rather embarrassing actually. My Training Max for my bench is currently 215. Prior to getting back into 5/3/1 I could only get 225 for 2 rather strained reps. Saturday I just did my TM for 1 rep and then I racked 225. I hit 225 for a solid 5 reps and would've tried a 6th if I had a spotter but wasn't feeling great about doing a 6th on my own. Man did it feel great to be finally moving 225 again for reps. Hopefully in another month or two I can get it back to my rep-PR of 10 reps and even exceed it.
I'm making some progress as well. I'm holding off on going for a new PR until my first PL meet in October. But I have been testing my 1RMs with a pause at the bottom every few weeks (specifically for the event in mind, so that I can be sure I know what weight my first and second attempt will be) - and that has improved some.0 -
Very nice!I can't believe it's only been a month and I'm having such great progress already. Right now my bench is a real progress indicator for me because I somehow managed to go backwards in strength the last few months, it's rather embarrassing actually. My Training Max for my bench is currently 215. Prior to getting back into 5/3/1 I could only get 225 for 2 rather strained reps. Saturday I just did my TM for 1 rep and then I racked 225. I hit 225 for a solid 5 reps and would've tried a 6th if I had a spotter but wasn't feeling great about doing a 6th on my own. Man did it feel great to be finally moving 225 again for reps. Hopefully in another month or two I can get it back to my rep-PR of 10 reps and even exceed it.
I'm making some progress as well. I'm holding off on going for a new PR until my first PL meet in October. But I have been testing my 1RMs with a pause at the bottom every few weeks (specifically for the event in mind, so that I can be sure I know what weight my first and second attempt will be) - and that has improved some.
Thanks.
Good that you're testing with a pause, it definitely changes things a bit. I've been doing my very last set of each main lift (except DL of course) with a pause and that definitely reduces how many reps you can do.0 -
Good post from Chad Wesley Smith of Juggernaut on 5/3/1 adaptations.5/3/1 is a great program and very versatile. I like to use 5/3/1-esque schemes with lots of my athletes.
One issue I see with the basic program though is that it is too low of volume for weaker/less experienced lifters to get sufficient training effect from. So I’ve come up with some expanded versions based on it for you to check out. These haven’t been run by Jim at all but I’m sure he would approve because he likes stuff that works. Also, keep in mind that the listed percentages are of your actual max, not an adjusted max…
10/8/5
Week 1-45/55/65%x10+, that means 45%x10, 55%x10, 65%x10+
Week 2-50/60/70%x8+
Week 3-55%x10, 65%x8, 75%x5+
8/5/3
Week 1-50/60/70%x8+
Week 2-55/65/75%x5+
Week 3-60%x8, 70%x5, 80%x3+
HIGH VOLUME 5/3/1
Week 1-55/60/65/70/75%x5+
Week 2-60/65/70/75/80%x3+
Week 3-65%x5, 70%x4, 75%x3, 80%x2, 85%x1+
3/2/1
Week 1-60/70/80%x3+
Week 2-65/75/85%x2+
Week 3-70%x5, 80%x2, 90%x1+
HIGH VOLUME 3/2/1
Week 1-60/65/70/75/80%x3+
Week 2-65/70/75/80/85%x2+
Week 3-70%x3, 75%x3, 80%x2, 85%x2, 90%x1+
If you are using these schemes in conjunction with sprint and jump training, then I would encourage you to only use the minimum prescribed reps in all but Week 3s (or only go beyond the prescribed reps in Week 1 and Week 3), since you will be receiving such significant stimulus from the speed/power work.0 -
Cool post Chris. In Beyond 5/3/1 Jim is a big advocate of "pyramiding" back down and even doing max reps at each weight on the way back down. For instance, here's what my OHP day looked like yesterday
after warmups...
5 @ 100
5 @ 115
5+ @ 130 - got 10-reps for a PR
5+ @ 115 - only got 9 reps LOL
5 sets of 5 @ 100 *paused reps* (sometimes I will do max paused reps, depends on what I feel like doing)
- assistance work
It's interesting that Chad does a week of 10+ and 8+. I wonder if that's like an induction or prep period?0 -
That seems like a good idea for more volume for sure.
I'm not sure if it is from the same people but 3dMJ like to use the juggernaut program which is essentially 5/3/1 as 10/5/3. (like the first one.)
And it was just on their FB page 0 -
Despite the lower back pain I've been having today was a really good training session. I looped the song "Send the Pain Below" by Chevelle for a little inspiration. LOL
I had to combine my week 3 (5/3/1) DL and OHP session together and it went surprisingly well, it must be the CBL; Pop Tarts FTW!
DL went something like this:
5 @ 300 / 3 @ 335 / 1 @ 375 / 1 @ 405 (Joker set) 1+ @ 375 (got 5 reps) / 3+ @ 335 then I stopped thinking that I should conserve energy for my OHP. I was a little upset about my 405 Joke Set, I should've repped it out but instead I went for 425 and missed. Doh! I'm pretty certain I would've at least gotten 2 reps at 405 which is why I felt 425 was in reach; I guess I should've reached for 410 first.
OHP:
5 @ 115 / 3 @ 130 / 1 @ 145 / 1+ @ 155 (Joker set, got 5 reps), 1+ @ 145 / 3+ @ 130 / 5+ paused @ 115
I did one set of chins, dips, shrugs, and db ohp each for max reps, stretched and left because I was a little torched after that last OHP set.0 -
Quick Question... is it stalling if you continue to be able to lift the weight you've planned, keep upping your Est 1RM, but your AMRAPs aren't moving?
I track all my lifts, so I decided to take the best AMRAP sets from the past 4 cyles, and evaluate them using the EST 1RM formula. Here's what I got:
// Bench
Programmed Est 1RM = 235
221.5 / 227.5 / 234 / 232
// Deadlift
Programmed Est 1RM = 315
308.5 / 321 / 396 / 388.5
//Press
Programmed Est 1RM = 155
138 / 144 / 147 / 147 (just a tough lift)
//Squat
Programmed Est 1RM = 290
286 / 329 / 290.5 / 281.5
(about the squat, I'm definitely squating lower now, so this could be affecting my numbers. got caught in the hole a week ago)
Before I got the app I use now to manage the program, I swore I wouldn't track these kinds of things so I wouldn't have to worry about it. But I did... so now I'm screwed lol0 -
If you're making progress in weights but not making any PR's on your reps you're still getting stronger, wouldn't worry about it. As long as you're hitting the minimum reps for each increase in weight from cycle-to-cycle you're making progress. If you can't hit the minimum reps then you're probably stalling. It looks like you found some fractional weight plates, so you should probably be able to progress for a longer period of time.0
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It's kind of funny but my Squat seems to be slowing down faster than my OHP, weird huh? Today was my 5/3/1 Squat day and it wasn't disappointing but it wasn't great, let's call it average I guess. My TM for the squat is 330 and I actually went for a set of 340 and got two reps and I was hoping for 4 or 5 to be honest. So 340 @ 2 reps is approximately 365 which is my current 1RM, so I'm not really making any progress on my Squat right now, but I'm not losing which is important I guess. LOL.
I think I do enough posterior chain work and am thinking that my quads may need a little more emphasis. Any suggestions on quad work? First, I HATE Front Squats. I cannot hold the clean position, hell I can't even get into properly; my arms just don't bend like that. LOL. I hate holding it across my shoulders with arms crossed, the bar feels to unsecured like I'll drop it. I'm kind of thinking that I may get some Leg Pressing going again, that always seemed to burn my quads pretty good.0 -
The squat is such a technical exercise, your performance could be due to squating lower one day than the other. Do you have a mirror by your squat rack?
I know plenty of guys who hate the thought of a mirror by the rack, but I wish my gym had one so I could see if I'm really going down as low as I think I am. I have to record on my phone instead and review after... which kinda sucks.
Point in case: at 225lbs the other day I got caught in the hole at rep 4, spotters had to jump in to help. Yesterday I squat 250 for 4 reps, and I'm pretty sure I didn't go as low. This is a work in progress, and I'm sure you're aware of your form, but I'm actually thinking about readjusting my weight as my form gets better/lower.0 -
The squat is such a technical exercise, your performance could be due to squating lower one day than the other. Do you have a mirror by your squat rack?
I know plenty of guys who hate the thought of a mirror by the rack, but I wish my gym had one so I could see if I'm really going down as low as I think I am. I have to record on my phone instead and review after... which kinda sucks.
Point in case: at 225lbs the other day I got caught in the hole at rep 4, spotters had to jump in to help. Yesterday I squat 250 for 4 reps, and I'm pretty sure I didn't go as low. This is a work in progress, and I'm sure you're aware of your form, but I'm actually thinking about readjusting my weight as my form gets better/lower.
Yes, our gym does have mirror luckily. Although, in a way I wish it didn't because then I would be forced to go off of feel and learn what parallel feels like versus looks like. Get so dependent seeing it that I forget to just feel it.
Today wasn't necessarily a bad day, just performed to average or what would be my 1RM, no gain no loss. I guess I did do a small Joker Set above my TM for 2 reps, so it was more positive than negative. I don't believe I did anything technically wrong, if anything my ****ty dinner or lack of is what did it. I ate good all day and then we had some errands to run at night and dinner ended-up being a beer, sandwhich, and some fries. It should've been a medium steak, red potatoes and some crappy carbs to load for today's session.0 -
Yeah that "feel" thing, I can tell you from experiance that without having a spotter to coach your form, even recording it afterwards isn't always so helpful. I can't tell you how many times I've "felt" like I was going deep, only to find that I was leaning forward a bit more or just straight up wrong.
**** if it didn't make me seem like a crazy person I would bring my own mirror to the gym. Nothing beats being able to sit in the hole and actually see where the bar is, how your hips are sitting, if you broke parallel...
I've actually asked a few guys at the gym to watch my squat... and no matter what I do they tell me I'm good to go... that can't be right lol0 -
I had a pretty awesome couple workouts this past weekend.
- Bench (5/3/1+) day: My TM is 215 and I worked up to a single of 245. I can see where the paused bench pressing is helping. I started to feel like I might get stuck with it on my chest but then I just pressed it up. That was the end of my 2nd 5/3/1 cycle and I put-back 10lbs on my bench press. I say put-back because I could bench that earlier in the year, lost strength somehow along the way. Either way, I'm very happy with my progress in just a short time.
- DL (3/3/3+) day: Today began my cycle 3. Yes I probably should've started a deload week but I just really didn't feel like it. I worked up to 405 and rep'd 405 twice and then pyramided back down. I was concerned that I wouldn't even hit 405 for a single today because 365 and 385 didn't feel great, but I pushed through and got it for a deuce, I was happy.0 -
So I've been thinking about this a lot, and finally decided to drop my E1RM by about 40 lbs (loosing 12 weeks of progress mind you!!), and start doing box squats. They're tougher regardless of where you set the boxes (parallel or ATG), but I'll be damned if I'm not going to nail this squat technique down.
Instant changes noticed: that thing about pushing off your heals? Now I don't have a choice. Relative to before I have barely any toe input but for some stabalization, and the bar tracks pretty well above my feet. Also, knees bow outwards a bit better too.
Of course the same issue remains... eventually when I think I have the hang of it, can I get the feel of the lower squat without the boxes?0 -
Alright, so progressing on a deficit... I don't remember Wendler ever talking about a cutting cycle, and I seem to have reached a threshold with my lifts where the first 2 working sets are actually my old 5/3/1 PR set weights... so things have gotten much tougher. That's fine, but I don't see myself cutting while continuing to up the weight.
Anyone have thoughts about just going a few cycles without increasing the weight? I'm also tweaking my form on the squat (doing box squats now). What I'm doing right now is kicking my *kitten* regardless, and I think keeping things where they are at might give me a couple of cycles to relax and focus on cutting.0 -
Just based on what I've read from Jim in his book and in other forums is that he's not big on the whole cutting thing, so he would probably say don't do it or expect to stall. I think the reality is that some of us want to drop some BF while lifting and changing from 5/3/1 to something else is probably not ideal. Personally, I cannot see myself not trying to progress somehow be either by rep PR, weight PR, or both. For me there's just no point in training if I don't feel like I'm getting better in some way. Cutting is all about diet so progress in body comp is strictly diet related for the most part, just takes discipline which is actually really really hard for me.
I think where you're at with the weight is fine and should be expected but it doesn't mean that there's necessarily a problem or anything. Yes, cutting can make you exhausted while training like this so be careful with it. I read the carb back-loading book recently and found it to be very helpful. Basically I workout in the morning so I carb-up at night and train fasted and so far so good. Right now when I know I'm going to be lifting on back-to-back days I eat at maintenance that day and if I' off the next day I'll eat at a 20% deficit that day and the next with a big carb-load the following night for the next morning. I'm not sure if that's ideal or not but I'm gonna run with it for now until I determine otherwise.0 -
Just based on what I've read from Jim in his book and in other forums is that he's not big on the whole cutting thing, so he would probably say don't do it or expect to stall. I think the reality is that some of us want to drop some BF while lifting and changing from 5/3/1 to something else is probably not ideal. Personally, I cannot see myself not trying to progress somehow be either by rep PR, weight PR, or both. For me there's just no point in training if I don't feel like I'm getting better in some way. Cutting is all about diet so progress in body comp is strictly diet related for the most part, just takes discipline which is actually really really hard for me.
I think where you're at with the weight is fine and should be expected but it doesn't mean that there's necessarily a problem or anything. Yes, cutting can make you exhausted while training like this so be careful with it. I read the carb back-loading book recently and found it to be very helpful. Basically I workout in the morning so I carb-up at night and train fasted and so far so good. Right now when I know I'm going to be lifting on back-to-back days I eat at maintenance that day and if I' off the next day I'll eat at a 20% deficit that day and the next with a big carb-load the following night for the next morning. I'm not sure if that's ideal or not but I'm gonna run with it for now until I determine otherwise.
Well that's just my point. I would halt the weight progression for now, and keep trying to hit PR sets otherwise. The weights I am at right now are still very challenging. I can imagine that in 2 cycles or so of lifting the same TM, I'll be reping for more, and I'll have my BF% at my goal.
The only change is that my TM won't progress, but that's not a huge concern for me right now, since I've already gone through 5 cycles of 5/3/1, and the weight is very challenging at this point.0 -
Just based on what I've read from Jim in his book and in other forums is that he's not big on the whole cutting thing, so he would probably say don't do it or expect to stall. I think the reality is that some of us want to drop some BF while lifting and changing from 5/3/1 to something else is probably not ideal. Personally, I cannot see myself not trying to progress somehow be either by rep PR, weight PR, or both. For me there's just no point in training if I don't feel like I'm getting better in some way. Cutting is all about diet so progress in body comp is strictly diet related for the most part, just takes discipline which is actually really really hard for me.
I think where you're at with the weight is fine and should be expected but it doesn't mean that there's necessarily a problem or anything. Yes, cutting can make you exhausted while training like this so be careful with it. I read the carb back-loading book recently and found it to be very helpful. Basically I workout in the morning so I carb-up at night and train fasted and so far so good. Right now when I know I'm going to be lifting on back-to-back days I eat at maintenance that day and if I' off the next day I'll eat at a 20% deficit that day and the next with a big carb-load the following night for the next morning. I'm not sure if that's ideal or not but I'm gonna run with it for now until I determine otherwise.
Well that's just my point. I would halt the weight progression for now, and keep trying to hit PR sets otherwise. The weights I am at right now are still very challenging. I can imagine that in 2 cycles or so of lifting the same TM, I'll be reping for more, and I'll have my BF% at my goal.
The only change is that my TM won't progress, but that's not a huge concern for me right now, since I've already gone through 5 cycles of 5/3/1, and the weight is very challenging at this point.
That's definitely an option. Although at the same time I wouldn't be afraid of pushing forward, failing, and going through a reset; that is a perfectly acceptable option as well. Unless you're just exhausted. But it's almost winter time, what do you need to cut for?
lol j/k 0 -
Just based on what I've read from Jim in his book and in other forums is that he's not big on the whole cutting thing, so he would probably say don't do it or expect to stall. I think the reality is that some of us want to drop some BF while lifting and changing from 5/3/1 to something else is probably not ideal. Personally, I cannot see myself not trying to progress somehow be either by rep PR, weight PR, or both. For me there's just no point in training if I don't feel like I'm getting better in some way. Cutting is all about diet so progress in body comp is strictly diet related for the most part, just takes discipline which is actually really really hard for me.
I think where you're at with the weight is fine and should be expected but it doesn't mean that there's necessarily a problem or anything. Yes, cutting can make you exhausted while training like this so be careful with it. I read the carb back-loading book recently and found it to be very helpful. Basically I workout in the morning so I carb-up at night and train fasted and so far so good. Right now when I know I'm going to be lifting on back-to-back days I eat at maintenance that day and if I' off the next day I'll eat at a 20% deficit that day and the next with a big carb-load the following night for the next morning. I'm not sure if that's ideal or not but I'm gonna run with it for now until I determine otherwise.
Well that's just my point. I would halt the weight progression for now, and keep trying to hit PR sets otherwise. The weights I am at right now are still very challenging. I can imagine that in 2 cycles or so of lifting the same TM, I'll be reping for more, and I'll have my BF% at my goal.
The only change is that my TM won't progress, but that's not a huge concern for me right now, since I've already gone through 5 cycles of 5/3/1, and the weight is very challenging at this point.
That's definitely an option. Although at the same time I wouldn't be afraid of pushing forward, failing, and going through a reset; that is a perfectly acceptable option as well. Unless you're just exhausted. But it's almost winter time, what do you need to cut for? lol j/k
Miami, Florida. lol
Yeah have to think about this some more, but I think I'm going to hold off on incrementing for a couple cycles rather than reset. My bench and press are for **** right now. I only hit my 1+ for two last week on the press, and man it nearly killed me. Yesterday I just barely made this new cycle's 5+, for exactly 5 reps, and I'm almost certain my form was way off on the last rep (like a standing incline bench press lol). Man I got the bar up nice and even, but it was slow and shaky lol.
By the way, is it normal that I'm hitting a wall like this? I've only been lifting for about 11 months now, and doing 5/3/1 since May. All of the sudden the weight just started feeling crazy heavy.0 -
Just based on what I've read from Jim in his book and in other forums is that he's not big on the whole cutting thing, so he would probably say don't do it or expect to stall. I think the reality is that some of us want to drop some BF while lifting and changing from 5/3/1 to something else is probably not ideal. Personally, I cannot see myself not trying to progress somehow be either by rep PR, weight PR, or both. For me there's just no point in training if I don't feel like I'm getting better in some way. Cutting is all about diet so progress in body comp is strictly diet related for the most part, just takes discipline which is actually really really hard for me.
I think where you're at with the weight is fine and should be expected but it doesn't mean that there's necessarily a problem or anything. Yes, cutting can make you exhausted while training like this so be careful with it. I read the carb back-loading book recently and found it to be very helpful. Basically I workout in the morning so I carb-up at night and train fasted and so far so good. Right now when I know I'm going to be lifting on back-to-back days I eat at maintenance that day and if I' off the next day I'll eat at a 20% deficit that day and the next with a big carb-load the following night for the next morning. I'm not sure if that's ideal or not but I'm gonna run with it for now until I determine otherwise.
Well that's just my point. I would halt the weight progression for now, and keep trying to hit PR sets otherwise. The weights I am at right now are still very challenging. I can imagine that in 2 cycles or so of lifting the same TM, I'll be reping for more, and I'll have my BF% at my goal.
The only change is that my TM won't progress, but that's not a huge concern for me right now, since I've already gone through 5 cycles of 5/3/1, and the weight is very challenging at this point.
That's definitely an option. Although at the same time I wouldn't be afraid of pushing forward, failing, and going through a reset; that is a perfectly acceptable option as well. Unless you're just exhausted. But it's almost winter time, what do you need to cut for? lol j/k
Miami, Florida. lol
Yeah have to think about this some more, but I think I'm going to hold off on incrementing for a couple cycles rather than reset. My bench and press are for **** right now. I only hit my 1+ for two last week on the press, and man it nearly killed me. Yesterday I just barely made this new cycle's 5+, for exactly 5 reps, and I'm almost certain my form was way off on the last rep (like a standing incline bench press lol). Man I got the bar up nice and even, but it was slow and shaky lol.
By the way, is it normal that I'm hitting a wall like this? I've only been lifting for about 11 months now, and doing 5/3/1 since May. All of the sudden the weight just started feeling crazy heavy.
Oh this is definitely normal. Everybody struggles at some point, has to take a step back and then keep going. Working up to your wall and taking a reset to continue moving forward is normal. It's basically like taking 3 steps forward and 1 step back, you're still ahead of the game.
Which version of 5/3/1 are you following?0 -
Jnick: doesn't CBL say to carb up the night of your training? ie. post workout if afternoon training. or is the am training method carb up the night before? Doesn't seem to make sense by the theory of the book.
Also, how do you deload (besides the 4th weekly ones) on 5/3/1? I've not known anyone to use it that long that they have stalled repeatedly.0 -
Jnick: doesn't CBL say to carb up the night of your training? ie. post workout if afternoon training. or is the am training method carb up the night before? Doesn't seem to make sense by the theory of the book.
Also, how do you deload (besides the 4th weekly ones) on 5/3/1? I've not known anyone to use it that long that they have stalled repeatedly.
There are really two ways to do CBL, either workout in the evening and carb-up post-workout or carb-up in the evening and train fasted in the morning. If you train in the morning then your post-workout shake is 20-40 carbs and 25 grams of protein with some kind of MCT oil; I like Coconut Oil for this. Then the rest of the day is like low to no carb. Then of course if you train in the morning you carb-up again. If you don't train in the morning then it's low carb all day. I use to do IF and train fasted in the morning and about wanted to die, but this actually seems to be working pretty well. I was skeptical but you really have to hit the carbs at night and make sure you have some ****ty carbs like he says in the book, I love me some Pop-Tarts for this.
The deload in Beyond 5/3/1 has been moved to every 6-weeks. Basically you train for 6 and deload for 1.0 -
Alright, as brief a rundown as I can manage on what I've done:
Nov 2012 - May 2013:
- Standard 5 day split
- Each muscle group once a week, everything 4-6 reps x 3 sets.
- Only upped the weight when I felt like I could. No deloads but with that split it was pretty easy.
May 2013 - Present:
- Layne Norton's P.H.A.T.
- 5/3/1 for main lifts on power days (Days 1 and 2)
- Rest
- Hypertrophy for Day 3, 4, & 5
- Rest
(http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html)
Total completed cycles: 5 cycles with a deload in between each (save for the last one). I am now in Week 1 Cycle 6, did not deload this past time.
Started feeling like the weight was getting heavy at the beginning of Cycle 5 after a deload, doing full routine at 60% of my usual weights for a week.
Diet has essentially stayed the same throughout, primary change is that after last deload I stopped drinking my post-workout drink, 1% chocolate milk to save some calories and start a bit of cutting.0 -
Alright, as brief a rundown as I can manage on what I've done:
Nov 2012 - May 2013:
- Standard 5 day split
- Each muscle group once a week, everything 4-6 reps x 3 sets.
- Only upped the weight when I felt like I could. No deloads but with that split it was pretty easy.
May 2013 - Present:
- Layne Norton's P.H.A.T.
- 5/3/1 for main lifts on power days (Days 1 and 2)
- Rest
- Hypertrophy for Day 3, 4, & 5
- Rest
(http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html)
Total completed cycles: 5 cycles with a deload in between each (save for the last one). I am now in Week 1 Cycle 6, did not deload this past time.
Started feeling like the weight was getting heavy at the beginning of Cycle 5 after a deload, doing full routine at 60% of my usual weights for a week.
Diet has essentially stayed the same throughout, primary change is that after last deload I stopped drinking my post-workout drink, 1% chocolate milk to save some calories and start a bit of cutting.
Ah, you are still doing that. I read through that link and I actually remember reading PHAT before. I would honestly recommend that you drop the PHAT routine and just stick with 5/3/1. That is a lot of volume man and yes that will definitely wear your *kitten* out. Besides, at a deficit what's the benefit of all that volume? If you're feeling drained and it seems like you are, then pick one routine or the other and just go with it.0 -
Thanks mate
Agreed. Icecreamfitness guy Jason actually said that no natural people should be using PHAT. On gear only. Recovery is a big issue.0
