5/3/1 Support Thread
Replies
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Nice man!
Btw... GMs it is then... lower (distal) biceps tendonitis. Have to lay off upper body and DLs for a couple weeks. My legs are going to grow like a mother****er...0 -
Nice man!
Btw... GMs it is then... lower (distal) biceps tendonitis. Have to lay off upper body and DLs for a couple weeks. My legs are going to grow like a mother****er...
I actually think I have that issue too right now. It gets tight and I worry that it's going to tear. I have some lacrosse balls and have been rolling my bicep and forearm to help relieve tension, we'll see... Luckily I think next week is going to be a deload week anyway.0 -
Careful with that bro. Everything I've read is to give it full rest, and ice it a few times a day. The thought of a bicep tendon tear terrifies me...
Here's a link: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/orthopaedics-rheumatology/diseases-conditions/hic-biceps-tendon-injuries.aspx
Something I've decided to do after resting it is stop with the switch grip on deads from now on. Apparently the supponated hand/arm takes the brunt of it and bicep injuries are really common. Screw that, I'm using pronated grip with straps from now on for the heavy lifts.
Mine started (though it could have been developing before) on a Fri when I did all 4 lifts, 3x10 at 60% (was tight on time and traveling). I don't think I warmed up enough.0 -
Hmmm.. I've thought about switching grip on deadlifts, Might give that a run after this comp (13th October)... I don't have an bicep issues though (Probably as I don't believe I have any Biceps TO injury...)
Just thought I'd share a few Notes on my training since going back to my Mismash 5/3/1...
I put the main lifts back to this as I'd taken 6 weeks running at 1RM's!!! Insane! I'd failed a 240KG Deadlift 3 weeks on the run, and was struggling on squats....
Increased calories, mainly carbs, and did 5/31 on the main lifts, but at an insane 80%+ 1RM
It meant I pulled 3x3 at 220KG, 3/2/1 at 230KG, Rep\Set PB's. I hit Single's at 235KG for a PB, followed 3 days later by a 240KG, and 250KG got a measly 1 inch off the floor (Same stalling point as the 3 failed 240KG's!)
Squats today was 3x3 at 170KG (170KG will be my comp opener)
Bench has major stalled, that's down to a weird right elbow issue though...
Overall, really glad I went back to this, and good to see it's paying off. Yes a BIG part is upping calories, especially Carbs, but this gave me a temporary break, while still allowing me to hit good reps at a Damn heavy weight. My DL target for this YEAR is 250KG, I'm certain I'm hitting that soon, and am chasing down my Gym owners comp PB of 270KG (20 years ago mind)0 -
Careful with that bro. Everything I've read is to give it full rest, and ice it a few times a day. The thought of a bicep tendon tear terrifies me...
Trust me, it scares me too and I'm definitely taking some preventative consideration into account. However, the bicep tendon on my under-hand grip isn't the one that's irritating me, it would be overhand grip hand that's giving me problems. My left arm (underhand) is fine.Just thought I'd share a few Notes on my training since going back to my Mismash 5/3/1..
Glad to see you're making some progress by switching back. Sorry to hear about the elbow issues with the bench press, I've been there before and occasionally still get some elbow discomfort. I have more soft-tissue issues than I care to admit to. LOL!
Have you bought the Beyond 5/3/1 book yet?0 -
Great video on YouTube about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvGqFhgbLXQ
CanditoTrainingHQ... phenominal channel on YouTube.0 -
Great video on YouTube about this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvGqFhgbLXQ
CanditoTrainingHQ... phenominal channel on YouTube.
That's funny you posted this because I actually subscribe to it. I hadn't seen that video at all. He makes a good point but I'm wondering why the hell it's my overhand grip that's sore and not my other arm. I actually notice it more when I'm doing SLDL than regular DL's because I use a double-overhand grip for SLDL's.0 -
Snatch grip? That would have a similar affect. But maybe its not the deads, what else are you doing?
Maybe you're inadvertently pulling with your "dumb" arm when you DL.
Point in case, I used to do this on the press, more force with my "dumb" left arm bc i was focusing more on my right (just in reverse in your case with pulling).0 -
Dunno, not gonna do anymore pulling this week. /sigh...
Got this answered on EliteFTS though...
9/26/2013 2:44:03 PM - Jason
I've developed some soreness and tightness in what I believe to be my bicep. It starts a few inches below my forearm and goes up to what feels like under my elbow. Somebody told me that's common with a mixed deadlifting grip, but that's my overhand grip and not the underhand; my underhand grip arm is fine. Would using straps help alleviate some pressure and tension for pulling exercises? Thanks - Jason
EliteFTS Reply
Just because it's the over hand doesn't mean you are not contracting the bicep and possibly pulling with your arms too much. You can try straps but also try switching your grips set to set, especially on lighter sets...and make sure you are not pulling with your arms!0 -
$%^& why am I not on the EliteFTS forums?!?!
Going there now...0 -
Careful with that bro. Everything I've read is to give it full rest, and ice it a few times a day. The thought of a bicep tendon tear terrifies me...
Trust me, it scares me too and I'm definitely taking some preventative consideration into account. However, the bicep tendon on my under-hand grip isn't the one that's irritating me, it would be overhand grip hand that's giving me problems. My left arm (underhand) is fine.Just thought I'd share a few Notes on my training since going back to my Mismash 5/3/1..
Glad to see you're making some progress by switching back. Sorry to hear about the elbow issues with the bench press, I've been there before and occasionally still get some elbow discomfort. I have more soft-tissue issues than I care to admit to. LOL!
Have you bought the Beyond 5/3/1 book yet?
We have a sports Massage guy who we get to come to our Gym weekly, I'm booking in for next week, Hoping that will sort a few issues out...
Just got the Beyond 5/3/1 still to read it as yet. Planning to take a look this weekend0 -
Just got the Beyond 5/3/1 still to read it as yet. Planning to take a look this weekend
Pages 14 and 15 include my two favorite variants of 5/3/1 and the cool thing is that you combine the two. I actually combine the pyramids too. I like 5/3/1 before I read this but I'm an every bigger fan now. Joker Sets is another great add-on. Love this book
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Just got the Beyond 5/3/1 still to read it as yet. Planning to take a look this weekend
Pages 14 and 15 include my two favorite variants of 5/3/1 and the cool thing is that you combine the two. I actually combine the pyramids too. I like 5/3/1 before I read this but I'm an every bigger fan now. Joker Sets is another great add-on. Love this book
I have the kindle version and can't figure out which variants you are referring to. I have started the first set last variant. That is tough. Especially combined with BBB. Will have to try the pyramid.0 -
Just got the Beyond 5/3/1 still to read it as yet. Planning to take a look this weekend
Pages 14 and 15 include my two favorite variants of 5/3/1 and the cool thing is that you combine the two. I actually combine the pyramids too. I like 5/3/1 before I read this but I'm an every bigger fan now. Joker Sets is another great add-on. Love this book
I have the kindle version and can't figure out which variants you are referring to. I have started the first set last variant. That is tough. Especially combined with BBB. Will have to try the pyramid.
The core piece I'm referring to is the 5/3/1 Strength Phase (variation of 5/3/1 for PL). In my book it's page 15, not sure. LOL. The First Set Last set you can simply add-on to the Strength Phase variation, as well as Pyramiding. A squat session for 3/3/3+ week may look something like:
-Squat
70% x 3 reps
80% x 3 reps
90% x 3+ reps
1 x 1 @ Training Max
80% x 3+ reps
70% x 3+reps *Paused* or 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps *Paused*
As I've been progressing I've been doing mine a little different. On the third set of 3 I only do 3 reps but then I do the 90% again on the way back down and hit it for 3+ reps. Right now my 90% set is my Training Max and even over TM on one or two exercises.0 -
Holy crap, I'm not ready for that yet. Maybe in a year.0
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Holy crap, I'm not ready for that yet. Maybe in a year.
Why do you say that? You look like you're in good shape. It does work you hard but I'm sure you can do it. Honestly, the Pyramiding, working at TM or above TM (Joker Sets) is based a lot on how you feel. I have a plan each session but it often changes based on how I feel, either add / subtract or completely change something. If you feel like @ss when you get to the gym and get going then maybe just hit that 1 rep at TM and be done. If you feel great then hit that 1 rep at TM and maybe shoot for a Joker Set single or reps and then pyramid down. Beyond 5/3/1 really opens things up with 5/3/1 and you can really change things on the fly and still be very effective.0 -
Hey Tom, are you doing 5/3/1 right now? If not, I would start out with the standard program from the 5/3/1 book, before moving out to Beyond 5/3/1. Just so you've got the fundamentals down. Beyond is basically a book of templates and variations.
I didn't realize this when I picked up the book, and it took me a bit to realize it. Made sense to me afterwards lol
I was like "oh, so he's recommending I change to this... wait, then this... wait, then... what the f%&k! lol"
Yo Nick,
I don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner, but I have a relative who is a top tier nurse (she's wrapping up her PhD now actually and has been practicing for years). Brought up the elbow tendinitis to her, and she confirmed that tendinitis indicates a certain amount of degradation of the tendon, so resting it and icing it/taking NSAIDS (w/ food), is important.
As a general rule, she advised to use pain and soreness as an indication of healing, and that you could expect it to heal within about 1-2 weeks if you give it sufficient rest. Then a slow and steady return to exrcise that stresses it, keeping an eye out for pain.0 -
Yo Nick,
I don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner, but I have a relative who is a top tier nurse (she's wrapping up her PhD now actually and has been practicing for years). Brought up the elbow tendinitis to her, and she confirmed that tendinitis indicates a certain amount of degradation of the tendon, so resting it and icing it/taking NSAIDS (w/ food), is important.
As a general rule, she advised to use pain and soreness as an indication of healing, and that you could expect it to heal within about 1-2 weeks if you give it sufficient rest. Then a slow and steady return to exrcise that stresses it, keeping an eye out for pain.
Cool, thanks for the info. I kinda' figured that as I can tell how it feels. I decided that I'm going to finish this week's training plan, I only have Bench day left, but eliminate all pulling exercises. Then next week I'll take a break through at least Wed and see how it's feeling. At most I'll do a deload session for each movement (except DL) late iin the week. I really took Candito's comments on the DL to heart and I actually ordered a pair of straps. I never thought I'd see the day where I'd be using straps but he's right. I'm not competing and the focus of the DL is not the grip. Plus, I've already hit my DL goals so anything going forward is "gravy". I'll use straps with a double-overhand grip and see how it goes. Perhaps the mixed grip has just caused too much of an imbalance which is why I'm having an issue.0 -
Squat Day - Cycle 3 5/3/1+ Day
I discussed it earlier and I've decided to go ahead and switch from a wide-stance back squat to an Olympic squat stance. I've done them before for reps after main squat or DL work, so doing them from warm-up to finish was different. At first I couldn't get down all the way so my warm-ups took a little long until I was comfortable hitting parallel But I soon got into my rhythm and hit parallel no problem. I had no idea how much I could squat so I slowly worked up to a heavy single. Here was my workout today:
a. Oly Squat: 1RM = 320lbs (not as far off from my wide stance squat as I initially thought)
b1. Squat Press 5 x 10 @ 450lbs
b2. Glute Bridge 5 x 10 @ 185lbs
c1. Leg Extensions 2 x 25 @ 60lbs
c2. Leg Curls 2 x 25 @ 60lbs
Abs - 2 x 50 of standing pulldowns
I was very happy with my squat results. The Squat Press / Glute Bridge superset was brutal. My hamstrings were already a little sore after that. Then since I'm going to take some time off next week I figured I would just exhaust the hell out of my legs today so I finished with a high-rep superset of leg extensions and leg curls just to further exhaust the muscle. My legs are tired, sore, and so swollen that I can barely get them in my jeans this morning, they look a little snug and they ain't skinny jeans. LOL!!!0 -
Hey Tom, are you doing 5/3/1 right now? If not, I would start out with the standard program from the 5/3/1 book, before moving out to Beyond 5/3/1. Just so you've got the fundamentals down. Beyond is basically a book of templates and variations.
I didn't realize this when I picked up the book, and it took me a bit to realize it. Made sense to me afterwards lol
I was like "oh, so he's recommending I change to this... wait, then this... wait, then... what the f%&k! lol"
I've only got 3 months of 5/3/1 under my belt. So far, I've just added the first set last to the normal routine. If I am feeling it, I do joker sets to see where my 1RM is. That happens about once a month. And I do the BBB accessories.
I do love the variations that beyond 5/3/1 offers and I will probably save the pyramid stuff for when I start my bulk in November.
Although I am doing the 6 week variation now. I just didn't feel like a reload after the last cycle. Had lots of energy and I'm still new so I don't think I need a full week deload yet. I will keep skipping the deload until I stall.
Love this thread, BTW.0 -
Oh man, if you've never used straps, get ready. All bs aside, they are a joy to use. Your grip is still important, and you will still have to hold on, but it helps you focus so much more on the movement, which is at the heart of the exercise to begin with.
Again, not saying that they should be used for anything but high reps/heavy working sets, but the bar just feels really solid.Although I am doing the 6 week variation now. I just didn't feel like a reload after the last cycle. Had lots of energy and I'm still new so I don't think I need a full week deload yet. I will keep skipping the deload until I stall.
Sounds like you're on point, but remember Wendler suggests doing it now when you're fine, so you don't *need* it later. I think that's sound advice, not that skipping it is going to hurt you necessarily. And from what I understand deloads don't really help with stalls, that's what resets are for. Deloads are meant to give your body a break while still keeping up some activity.
That said, while I have always taken my prescribed deload weeks... I absolutely hate them! I walk in the gym and roll my eyes the whole time lol Feel like such a b*tch, but w/e...0 -
Oh man, if you've never used straps, get ready. All bs aside, they are a joy to use. Your grip is still important, and you will still have to hold on, but it helps you focus so much more on the movement, which is at the heart of the exercise to begin with.
Again, not saying that they should be used for anything but high reps/heavy working sets, but the bar just feels really solid.Although I am doing the 6 week variation now. I just didn't feel like a reload after the last cycle. Had lots of energy and I'm still new so I don't think I need a full week deload yet. I will keep skipping the deload until I stall.
Sounds like you're on point, but remember Wendler suggests doing it now when you're fine, so you don't *need* it later. I think that's sound advice, not that skipping it is going to hurt you necessarily. And from what I understand deloads don't really help with stalls, that's what resets are for. Deloads are meant to give your body a break while still keeping up some activity.
That said, while I have always taken my prescribed deload weeks... I absolutely hate them! I walk in the gym and roll my eyes the whole time lol Feel like such a b*tch, but w/e...
Have you seen his new deload that works up to your Training Max? That's actually not bad. Go in there and work-up to a fairly heavy set then leave. That's exactly how I plan on deloading.0 -
On the matter of grip, straps, etc... just bought an Eco Ball, "invisible chalk". Have yet to use it on a lift due to the tendinitis, but I tested it out a little and it dries your hands up pretty good. Going to try this in lieu of gloves for a while.0
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On the matter of grip, straps, etc... just bought an Eco Ball, "invisible chalk". Have yet to use it on a lift due to the tendinitis, but I tested it out a little and it dries your hands up pretty good. Going to try this in lieu of gloves for a while.
Gloves I know I will never use, tried them once for a while, hated them and threw them away. Chalk could be cool, looking forward to the straps. I will only use them for my heaviest sets on the DL, they'll only come out of my bag for 3 or 4 sets probably.0 -
Cycle 3 - Bench Day 5/3/1+
Make this update quick, my 1RM is back up to 250lbs, 12 weeks +20lbs and I'm finally back to where I started the year at; I'm sorry happy. I hit 7 reps on my NFL bench test (LOL!).
I swear 5/3/1 Strength Phase is like magic.0 -
So much for resting my biceps this week. I'm going to give my body complete rest for the next two weeks and see if this **** goes away.
Also, my knees hurt quite a bit with the new high bar, ATG squat I've been doing. Coming up off my heels just feels like hell, and like I'm yanking the tendons over the top-left, above my knees where the quads attach. You know they say "listen to your body", and though everything mechanically seems correct and I've been as thorough as I can manage, my body is telling me something isn't right with the movement.
Maybe my knees aren't conditioned for this movement at the higher weights (1.5xBW and totally a possibility) but at any rate, I don't like it. When I get back to it, I'm going to keep doing the old low-bar, parallel squat that I was doing. Might have also been my attempts to use the "spring" at the bottom of the squat to rebound (something my body wasn't used to), but I'm just not interested in working on the ATG form anymore, especially when figuring it out is hurting my knees and keeping me out of the gym.0 -
So much for resting my biceps this week. I'm going to give my body complete rest for the next two weeks and see if this **** goes away.
Also, my knees hurt quite a bit with the new high bar, ATG squat I've been doing. Coming up off my heels just feels like hell, and like I'm yanking the tendons over the top-left, above my knees where the quads attach. You know they say "listen to your body", and though everything mechanically seems correct and I've been as thorough as I can manage, my body is telling me something isn't right with the movement.
Maybe my knees aren't conditioned for this movement at the higher weights (1.5xBW and totally a possibility) but at any rate, I don't like it. When I get back to it, I'm going to keep doing the old low-bar, parallel squat that I was doing. Might have also been my attempts to use the "spring" at the bottom of the squat to rebound (something my body wasn't used to), but I'm just not interested in working on the ATG form anymore, especially when figuring it out is hurting my knees and keeping me out of the gym.
Yeah, there's little reason to go past parallel if you're not competing and even then I'm not sure if it's worth it.
I've never really tried high-bar versus low bar, kinda' middle of the road on bar positioning there, but I would assume that each position probably changes the weight you can manage at least a little. Just do whichever version of the Back Squat that feels most comfortable for you, hit parallel, work hard, do your assistance work, do some cardio, and go home.
Stretch your quads good, even on non-leg days, and even on off days. Stretch. Foam roll or Lacrosse Ball your quads, which may help relieve some pressure around your knee.0 -
Biggest difference from what I can tell, is that lowbar lets you lean forward a little more while still keeping the weight above your feet (centered). High bar has your back more vertical, and so it has you sitting into the hole. To be fair there is probably something I'm doing wrong here, but I record almost all of my squats, and I don't see it.
I find that driving up my hips and using my back more helps relieve the problem, rather than using my quads almost exclusively to get out of the hole, but that essentially has me rocking forward with the high bar squat. I'm going to see if the low bar fixes all of this, as I expect it should.0 -
So I'm doing complete rest for the next two weeks to see if my knees and elbows get around to feeling better.
I figure after that time, my strength will have waned a bit, and I also want to make sure that I get back up to speed very gradually so that I avoid getting hurt again, and temper things in case my body needs a little more time to heal up.
I don't want to drop my 5/3/1 weight since starting really low would have me progressing too slowly, so I've been considering starting at a lower amount, and using SL5x5 which has pretty quick progression to get me back up to speed within 2 months.
Seems like a solid comeback with ample time to recover and a slow ramp up, and really giving my joints a chance to chill out without just taking a month off.
I would increment 10lbs for every lift, from workout to workout.
it would look like this:
Strong Lifts 5x5 Recovery
Prev TM Start Wt Diff 2W Cycle Weeks Months Inc % of TM
Bench 220 100 120 4 8 2.00 30 0.45
Deadlift 305 185 120 4 8 2.00 30 0.61
Press 135 45 90 3 6 1.50 30 0.33
Squat 245 125 120 4 8 2.00 30 0.51
I just want the first few weeks to be very light, with no accessory work, and take 2 months to recover so the weight doesn't just jump on me too much, too early.0 -
So I'm doing complete rest for the next two weeks to see if my knees and elbows get around to feeling better.
I figure after that time, my strength will have waned a bit, and I also want to make sure that I get back up to speed gradually so that I avoid getting hurt again, and temper things in case my body needs a little more time to heal up.
I don't want to drop my 5/3/1 weight since starting really low would have me progressing too slowly, so I've been considering starting up at maybe 37.5% of my training max, and using SL5x5 which has pretty quick progression to get me back up to speed.
By my estimates, this would have me back up to pre-injury levels in about 2 months. Seems like a solid comeback with ample time to recover and a slow ramp up.
Would start SL5x5 with:
Bench: 85
Deadlift: 115
Press: 50
Squat: 90
This is all very light weight for me, which is what I want, and the weight will ramp up at a good pace. Better than taking more weeks of complete rest, although I will have to see in a couple weeks how I feel before I start anyhow.
Even though I promote SL5x5 for un-experienced beginners, I friggin' hate that routine so I cringe when I see it. LOL. People tend to confuse adding plates to the bar with true strength gains. Maybe just do it for a week at most and maybe get four workouts done instead of the 3 (A, B, A,
? Dunno, do what works best for you.
If it were me I would honestly just swallow my pride a little, go find my new 1RM, re-calc everything and just hit my TM reps and Joker Sets really hard and try to get my strength back quickly. I'm in a similar boat with some forearm tendonitis. I took most of last week off and just did a de-load at the end of the week with lifting straps no less to help relieve stress from my arm. I will still probably lay off any curling exercises for a while but upper back stuff is back on the table.0
