Thoughts, Epiphanies, Insights, & Quotables
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Oh, and I am 69 so I am not a spring chicken....I carry a lot of weight in my arms and legs....no one ever guesses how much I weigh....thank God!0
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Above tells me you're taller than me even after we account for our mutual shrinkage!!!
It also tells me that if you're setup as sedentary you should be able to eat the 25% of exercise calories you mentioned somewhere else that you do eat from your swimming.
If your total intake is falling to below 1500 Cal, I would consider reducing the targeted deficit.
Thinking as to what I would be tempted to do in your position? I would aim to eat 1750 or so accurately counted calories consisting of foods I would be willing to eat indefinitely while continuing to increase my activity levels and letting the rest sort itself out.
note my emphasis throughout on accurate counting. my 1750 may be your 1500 and v.v. depending on how we count.
Unless you have a kidney issue I don't see the benefit of not meeting one's protein target (I like yogurt so that's an easy one for me)! I also like to (over)hit my fiber targets (i like the already mentioned yogurt with fiber rich cereal so that's an easy one for me)! : 0 -
Above tells me you're taller than me even after we account for our mutual shrinkage!!!
It also tells me that if you're setup as sedentary you should be able to eat the 25% of exercise calories you mentioned somewhere else that you do eat from your swimming.
If your total intake is falling to below 1500 Cal, I would consider reducing the targeted deficit.
Thinking as to what I would be tempted to do in your position? I would aim to eat 1750 or so accurately counted calories consisting of foods I would be willing to eat indefinitely while continuing to increase my activity levels and letting the rest sort itself out.
note my emphasis throughout on accurate counting. my 1750 may be your 1500 and v.v. depending on how we count.
Unless you have a kidney issue I don't see the benefit of not meeting one's protein target (I like yogurt so that's an easy one for me)! I also like to (over)hit my fiber targets (i like the already mentioned yogurt with fiber rich cereal so that's an easy one for me)! :
Ok...this really helps....the extra calories from exercising are very much enjoyed!...I do not intentionally miss my protein goals, it just happens...I am going to try an make an effort to increase protein and eat a few less carbs...I love my carbs...I almost always get enough fiber....I think I log pretty accurately so that isn’t a problem for me...I am also trying to find another exercise that I enjoy....thankfully I can swim here year round...1500 calories a day I can live with!
This is what I love about MFP....always someone to help you sort things out!...1 -
Connie pls note that the ultimate arbiter is progress over time.
So if you input fairly regular weigh ins into libra or happy scale or trendweight or a weighted moving average spreadsheet and you ultimately see a stall over an extended time period of ~6 weeks... then we do have a problem!
Your 4K steps puts you at sedentary and should cover normal sedentary activity. You do the swimming activity on top. While I don't think that it necessarily qualifies as vigorous exercise throughout, it is also not sedentary throughout that timeframe. At your current size the 1000 Cal for 90 min is not far-fetched and taking 25% of that is certainly not far-fetched.
HOWEVER, I do have a "concern" about accurate intake counting because of YOUR comments in various posts.
"counting accurately" not only refers to correctly accounting for individual items etc etc etc. But also includes successfully accounting for (almost) everything. And I know from my own logging that no matter how careful I am when I log after the fact (and I do currently log after the fact) stuff gets missed and I remember about it the next day. Not to mention MFP not recording things I KNOW i've entered, and yet they're nowhere to be found hours later!!!
And then you have things such as test bites that get missed. Or I'm in a hurry now, I'll log this later. I won't bother logging the spray of oil oil because it is nothing (well, about 10 Cal) . Or the 8g of lemon herb spice (at about 30 Cal). I just put a bit of ketchup it's low cal anyway (about 50g of ketchup or 55 Cal and it has sodium too!), oh I'll use a generic chocolate entry for this specific candy bar I ate (add another 20 Cal)... etc. All this amounts to what, 115 to 200 Cal (with bites), which is fine... as long as results are more or less in line!
But troubleshooting lack of results requires vigilance while trying to figure things out, or an acceptance and satisfaction with a wider gamut of results when less vigilant and intense in our approach.
So... your resting metabolic rate (you sitting quietly, not even reading) from your stats, assuming you're not a major outlier... is a bit over 1750.
By definition a person who applies a 20% deficit from sedentary calories is eating at rmr/bmr calories levels. For better or for worse... that's the limit of a good sized but not overly aggressive deficit. The way to move that deficit to a larger size is by increasing the size of the pie and increasing TDEE to above sedentary.
So. ~1750 ... we bump that down to 1500 for logging errors and for potentially some slow down from being in a deficit for a year.... so yes... eating 1500 and then a reasonable portion of exercise calories seems from the outside to most certainly have you at a good sized deficit... and the deficit (not the weight loss) is what you can control. If you apply the deficit the weight loss follows!
BUT, as I said... vigilance.
My dad was flabbergasted at the huge plate of... salad that I put in front of him. But I was flabbergasted at the amount of a "tablespoon" of oil he poured over his salad! (my best estimate was 35g, so just over 2 tablespoons) And of the pint of beer that accompanied it... and the "little sliver of cheese" that went on "some" crackers a few hours later (but the wasa box was gone in two days, and the 500g block of cheddar in 6 days... and I had zero)...
So no. My dad cannot, currently, aim for a sub 2K diet and succeed even though his RMR is the same as you RMR and he is less active than you. Because he is starting from way higher than 2K and he is neither ready nor willing to avoid certain temptations. And being too hungry only makes the temptations more appealing and he also "deserves" a reward for being "good". There is a 1200 Cal diet with over-eating spikes jpg that is making the rounds... it perfectly describes the phenomenon of aiming too low and too aggressively.
As @NovusDies has said before, all you can do is establish the pre-conditions that will eventually yield the results you want. Making sure you're consistently applying the pre-conditions is your win! The results eventually follow (and validate) that win!
Also, given age group, there could be confounding because of medications. Anything that retains, or releases, water can play havoc with scale results. And so does (majorly) stress over loved ones!
The good news is... you're obviously hanging in there.
So... not sure if any of this helps; but a 1500+ the portion of exercise calories you're eating back sure as *kittens* does not sound to me like you're over-eating and I would not double down at this time!
Take care of yourself!!!
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Pav888..... sincere thanks for boosting my confidence and determination.....2
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somethime, saying no is saying yes to yourself ( From someone who worked way to much lately and missed time to be able to have proper selfcare). I am learning to try to set my healthy boundaries without feeling to guilty. But it is hard with this pandemic. Gained back 10 pounds from stress eating and low exercise time in the last 5 months. )4
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phoenixmed wrote: »somethime, saying no is saying yes to yourself ( From someone who worked way to much lately and missed time to be able to have proper selfcare). I am learning to try to set my healthy boundaries without feeling to guilty. But it is hard with this pandemic. Gained back 10 pounds from stress eating and low exercise time in the last 5 months. )
THIS is so important....caring and helping others we tend to neglect our own needs and health...sometimes you have to say NO!...your own well being is as important as others....it’s not being selfish to take care of yourself!3 -
Sometimes saying yes to yourself is saying yes to someone/something else
Expanding on @phoenixmed's thought...
We all have a tank. This tank has a limited amount space. From this tank flows all the things we need to do in a given day. When the tank runs dry we are stuck in "diminishing returns". We might be able to do a little more but it will not get our best effort. Even that doesn't last... eventually we run out of gas.
As I gained weight my tank filled with fat. I started getting out of breath easier. My sleep quality declined. Overall I started to feel worse. As I limited my abilities, health, and mood my number of yeses naturally declined. I just didn't have enough space left for all the fuel I needed to take care of things. Some of them were very important to me.
By taking care of myself and losing weight my capacity is returning to normal. I am now able to say yes a lot more often.
It was far less selfish for me to prioritize my health than even I realized.4 -
I had this epiphany a while back:
Break the habit of leaving the best bit until last
I used to do this with food all the time. e.g. I'd plough my way through the whole of the pizza crust - which I dislike - until I had only the squidgy centre of the pizza left on my plate; then I'd eat that part last.
I'd eat all the unpalatable dry sponge parts of a slice of cake, and save the sweet, squidgy frosting for my last couple of mouthfuls.
I'd eat the soft centres from a box of chocolates (ugh) and save the delicious toffees and nougats until the end.
Sometimes this tactic backfired, and I was too full by the time I'd eaten all the pizza crust or the dry sponge cake to manage the squidgy best bits. Sometimes I'd made myself feel so sick on the overly sweet soft centred chocolates that I couldn't face the toffees and someone else snaffled them before I got my second wind.
But on many other occasions I'd eat past the point of comfort because I still had the best bit on my plate and I couldn't bear to miss out on eating it even though I was far too full to properly enjoy it.
The epiphany was - just stop doing this, and eat the best parts first! And it was revelatory! I've discovered that once I've eaten the best bit, I often lose my appetite for the unpalatable bits and can happily walk away from them. Hundreds/thousands of calories from unpalatable foods have been avoided! And the best bits have been savoured in all their glory, because I wasn't overly sated and uncomfortable.
I've now extended this philosophy to other areas of my life. For example, I now wear my favourite clothes all the time, rather than saving them 'for best'. Too many times in the past I've had to take my best clothes (sometimes still with the labels attached) to the charity shop because they're now too big or too small. I missed the opportunity to wear them when they actually fit me. I'm not making that mistake again!
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Wonderful idea!0
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Garfield is firing on all cylinders! Smart cat 👍2
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My thoughts exactly!2
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This feels like the right place for this --
A lesson in patience and self-compassion
Learning to be compassionate with myself was extremely difficult and the thought of talking to myself as I would a friend felt foreign. During the last few months, it’s been a struggle but my body has been under a lot of stress and the last thing I needed to do is beat myself up. So with a little patience and some positive affirmations, "this too shall pass".
As the screen name suggests, I'm a scientist, statistician, and all around data nerd, so I have a big ugly spreadsheet of data that I update regularly. Given the stress I've been under and the non-linear scale movements, I thought I'd sit down, look at the spreadsheet and reflect some -- and ramble at ya'll in the process (or those willing to read this long winded space-taker-upper).
A little about me —
About 10-yrs ago (in my mid-30s), I learned I won the genetic lottery
; probably shouldn’t have tested my mortality so many times when younger; and that a highly physical, outdoor career had led to some pretty serious lower back issues — osteoarthritis and associated things like bone spurs; loss of curvature in the spine; and, degenerative disc disease. As a consolation prize, I have arthritis in both hips. For my 40th birthday, I gifted my neurosurgeon with a nice down payment for his new BMW and in return, he put an artificial disc in my lower back.
To say this changed my life would be an understatement. I went from week long horseback camping trips, long hikes with a pack (work and enjoyment), fly fishing (lost the ability to balance in-stream), and much more, to being much more sedentary. Combating pain meant almost a 180 in lifestyle (or so I felt at the time), introducing a range of medications to deal with inflammation, pain, depression, and ultimately weight gain. I was never thin, but I also was never held back by my weight.
Fast forward to 2018, and I’d had enough, and made massive lifestyle changes — diet, exercise, mindfulness, compassion, patience, and a 65lbs weight loss in the process.
Although I “fell of the wagon” of healthy habits when COVID hit my community hard, I woke up at the beginning of the year, made my mental health a priority, returned to the healthy habits and lost the weight I gained during COVID and was doing great!
The here and now —
So, recently my self-compassion and patience have been tested by inflammation and pain. I’ve generally been able to keep these things under control with diet and exercise. Once or twice a year, I’ll need a steroid pack to get on track, but a recent attempt didn’t work, so I have a doctors appointment tomorrow to start what will likely be a long drawn out process of tracking down and treating the issue.
Because of the arthritis, I work very closely with my PCP (I've probably bought her a BMW or two). Although I saw her in early June, and again in early August, in preparation for my appointment tomorrow I wanted to take a good look at weight. Here is the graphic I came up with -- I'll explain more below it.
What's in the graphic
Each of the horizontal black axis represent 5 lbs to give you an idea of scale.
Red w/ blue dots (the "actual") are weekly average weight for the past 14 weeks. I'm self conscious so I removed the lbs from the axis.
The red dotted line is the actual weight trend for that period -- or the 'uphill battle".
The black and orange dots are the average weight I’d be at, based on calorie deficit, in a perfect world (for descriptive purposes, the “projected”).
Next the colored boxes over the graph represent "stress" —
Blue - in mid-May my emotional well-being went to *kitten* as I dealt with some personal issues. I chose a cut-off date based on when eating habits went back to "normal" although that stress didn't magically disappear on a given date.
Yellow - I sustained an injury that was the true kick off of uncontrolled inflammation and pain (ongoing)
There is a period where the yellow and blue boxes overlap, I dropped weight, and fast, due to some very unhealthy life choices.
Green - The period I took the prednisone to try and combat inflammation.
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Statistics and other info that goes with the graphic
Total days included: 100 (14 weeks)
Consistently logged calories:
-June 6 - June 30
-Aug 9 - Sept 13.
-The between period was logged but has 17 days missing.
-Based on actual, not averaged data, I’d have had to consume calories far in excess (on the very low end 1500+) of my TDEE (around 2000 +/- 100ish) each of those unlogged days to explain weight increases between weigh-ins.
Of the days logged, I was over my TDEE 6 times that totaled 2,625 calories or 0.75 lbs. These overages were minimal and infrequent, so they didn’t compromise my “projected” weekly averages
On days I wasn’t over, my deficits were inconsistent and ranged from 1 to 3551 calories (let's not talk about those high calorie deficit days.. )
My average weekly “projected” loss was 1.3lbs but ranged from 0.4 - 3.6lbs. In no week did the average equate to gaining
-The difference between the “actual” and “projected” weights in mid-Sept is 19.4 lbs. (Shocking, eh?)
My weigh-ins were sporadic throughout and don’t always include 2 or more weights but that wouldn’t change the trend (I graphed actual too).
The two highest “actual” points are likely inflated weights from taking the prednisone and represent increased overall inflammation from eating things like donuts (damn donut commercials! ) and cheese which my body HATES. I had zero willpower the last few days on the steroid and on one of those days likely exceeded TDEE by 1500 calories -- not logged, too ashamed to even look at it, but know what I ate... eesh! I also tend to carry a lot of excess water after taking prednisone. The decreasing average actual weight after is likely the loss of water.
With the exception of the prednisone days, overall, I ate my standard diet of "anti-inflammatory foods". For those interested that might have been curious, sorry, my MFP diary is private. Instead of seeing it as an accountability tool, I’d likely end up with some seriously disordered eating habits (with notes that read like an apology for committing some sort of atrocity against humanity when over/under eating) and couldn’t handle feedback. Not a compassionate move for me.
Until the last few weeks, I had difficulties mentally (lack of motivation) and physically exercising. If this were going to show up, it'd been in the last dot on the actual averages, and I ate back the vast majority of those calories - so theoretically is a wash.
Sleep has been all over the place for majority of the period. Generally between 4 and 6 hrs. Even when sleeping for 6+ hrs the quality has been poor and my fitness tracker shows very little recovery happening (high stress and low body battery numbers in the AM).
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So what does it mean (for me, and my interpretation) —
First for clarity, this is a snippet of data that felt pertinent to my current situation. Also, because these are averages over 7-days, the first dots show nothing of actual importance but a starting point -- but, you’ll see my “actual” loss was above the “projected”. Yay me!
Using the widely circulated graphic I see on the forum (below), “safe” loss for me is somewhere between 1 and 1.5 lbs (I’m unclear how “Total Loss” is determine - BMI?) based on the 1% of total body weight. Given an average “projected” loss of 1.3/wk, it feels like my calorie deficit is in the okay range.
There is the potential that I'm under eating given my current situation -- however, there is a fair amount of information that suggests that calorie restriction, can be effective at lowering inflammation. Seems like a double-edged sword to me.
Looking at this from a purely CICO take -- 100 days, all weeks averaged out to a loss (even if minimal) although the actual weight trend suggests otherwise. If I removed highest weight as an "outlier" from the prednisone, the dip from bad life choices (another outlier), that would flatten the line, but there is always going to be outliers in weight loss (no cherry picking data here!), and even a flat-line doesn't have a downward trajectory.
Okay, so what could it be?
How are my clothes fitting? ...fat pants baby! all the way
-- no mm, cm, inches lost only gained.
Am I under-eating? ...highly unlikely since, I "honor thy hunger" and eat to fuel myself on the days that I feel significantly more hungry, more worn down, or pain levels are higher. I have no issue moving to maintenance and eating at my TDEE (or over) if my body is telling me I need it.
Not eating enough protein? ...well, protein is something I do struggle with, but the appetite suppression isn't a problem - I'm generally not overeating (barring prednisone induced donut binging). Metabolic slowdown? Seems unlikely.
Too many carbs? ...I don't buy that carbs make me, personally, fat so -- nope.
Too much sugar? ...nope, natural sugars only in limited quantities and artificial sweeteners are the devil and create some pretty horrific inflammation for me.
Not enough water? ...100+ oz a day isn't enough?
Too much alcohol? ...meet the dip in "actual weight" early on.. hello bourbon diet! ...a full-time bourbon diet would probably be a bad idea. Outside of that period, no alcohol.
Processed/junk good? ...don't we all eat some? Overall though, I eat fruits, veggies, animal proteins (unprocessed but I do love me some salami from time to time), whole grains... I cook at home most of the time. I did an elimination diet to tell me what my body doesn't like -- a number of ingredients you find in highly processed foods make the list.
...I don't eat perfect, I definitely consume things that create inflammation, but I'm also human and can't always deny the need for something yummy that I haven't had in awhile.
So, is it a logging issue?
While I missed logging days during the period, those that I did log, are based on the theory, "if the food/drink goes in my mouth, I log it" ..if I log it, it's been weighed. I check entries in MFP that seem off and unreasonable. MY TDEE is based on my Garmin Connect, which automatically syncs with my scale app, so it updates with each weigh in. My MFP is set to sedentary because I have an office job, and well, it's appropriate for the time series in question. It is my understanding that's based on 3,000 steps, well, I'm sure there are days that I didn't get there. During the early part of the data set, I did not have "negative calorie adjustment" set on my MFP, so if I didn't get the 3,000 steps, there may have been some calories subtracted from my deficit, but even those calories wouldn't have had a large enough impact to change my weekly averages. With any shift in weight (generally +/- 5 lbs), I updated my MFP calorie targets. Doesn't seem like a logging issue. So what is it?
Stress (ding, ding, ding.. it seems we have a winner..?)
Between the stressors, particularly the chronic inflammation, it appears my body is fighting me to actually realize any significant loss. Total actual loss over the 100 days is - drum roll please -- 0.7 lbs. I'll take it, it wasn't a gain!
As I’ve read/heard many times weight loss isn’t linear.
In the "perfect world" (projected) scenario, based on CICO, I'd have seen about a 19lbs weight loss. I know from the past, I can carry around a significant amount of inflammation weight, but not 19lbs. Add in additional water weight from any number of things (stress, carbs), and I'm still not sure that equals 19lbs.
Yep, stress and it's constant companion lack of or quality sleep. No good sleep - no repairing.
Seems stress is a *kitten*. So is gravity! ...Karma's long lost sisters, maybe?
What did I miss?
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BUT, this all gets back to patience and compassion.
I didn't start my "journey" to drop as fast as possible, to serve a petty means.. instead to improve my health, try and outwit my genetics, and prolong life. So, in that vein... am I frustrated? With the pain, yes. With the inflammation, yes. But not with the scale. Sure, I'd love to see that 19lbs translate into real loss and they will eventually, but until, I will be patient.
I will continue to do what I do because.. well, if I hadn't, what tale would the scale tell? I won't allow the numbers on the scale to dictate how I feel about myself. I will continue to cater to my mental and physical health. I'll honor my body and treat it with compassion. It's all about the journey, but damn the destination seems far off sometimes! 
“Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.” -John Quincy Adams
If you made it this far.. WOW! Thank you. Constructive feedback is absolutely welcome and invited. 5 -
I hear you mention prednisone and hunger and inflammation; but not once did I hear you mention direct water weight gain and water retention associated with prednisone.
As in you (COULD potentially) retain water when taking it.
LBS in multitude that (COULD) take a while (sometimes months) after you've tapered to go away depending on dosage and individual.
Also... if long term on prednisone consider reminding your dr/watching your bone density especially since you mentioned having bone density problems.
(sources: relatives who took prednisone and had both problems I mention)
You may also want to implement a trailing moving average. I use trendweight.com which takes ~10 days into consideration. Libra for android is user configurable. You may also want to generally compare similar points to your cycle. This is all mostly for after you're not dealing with prednisone.
By the way anyone not GAINING on prednisone is a miracle, so you may want to take this aspect into consideration!
Where were you, BTW, when I was desperate for a stat nerd spreadsheet jockey to interpret my data for me and prove that the BMI scale was full of it and was only changing numbers based on weight loss not on any actual measurements?????
There is a share your numbers section you should join, especially when you go into freefall once your prednisone issues are sorted out (fingers crossed, of course)
Would say more but this is like the third time I am continuing after the laptop bonks me on the head... so i;ll click post before I lose another post!
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Made it to the end....and to the end of PAV's post and there is not a thing I could say that would add anything except...Sometimes we just gotta go on faith which takes a lot of strength - but wow, NerdyGrl, you seem that have a lot of that!3
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Thanks for the feedback and taking the time to read the novel I wrote! ❤️
Prednisone is the devil in disguise no doubt! I consider it a necessary evil at times.
I’m my experience weight “gain” (from prednisone), for me, is associated with two things — breaking down willpower and becoming a slave to the see food-eat food diet and (yep, you’re right) water retention. STUBBORN water retention at that, which is incredibly odd (IMO) because prednisone actually has a really short half life and should be completely out of your system in a short window after taking it.
So, this time, prednisone use was limited to 6-7 days (green bar). Thank goodness! My “see food diet” only the last two. I ate things those days that created inflammation on top of inflammation. Knowing that the prednisone was going to create weight gains, but temporarily, from water retention specifically, I didn’t weight myself directly after use was complete plus one week (mental health needed that love). The next time I did weight in, I’d gained over 7 lbs. In the averages for “actual weight” (red line), it shows up as the highest point nearly 2 weeks later, about 5 lbs lbs higher. Although the dose was short term, week use, I’m assuming that’s still a cumulative extra inflammation from food intake and water retention. For whatever reason, my body holds onto prednisone water for much longer than I’d normally see. …the devil in disguise. I’m guessing the last few actual dots are my gradual loss of that stubborn water.
Unfortunately, I don’t have a steadfast way of looking at cycle, due to a medical procedure but I still experience all the hormonal shifts but without any notice. The symptoms of those shifts are generally unnoticed unless I have an unusually bad case of “PMS” that leads to cranky, munchies, and excessive bloating — which hasn’t happened in quite awhile, so that comparison would be purely speculative and with a high likelihood of being off as much as a week. 🤷♀️
I’ll have to try a moving 7- or 10-day average and see how it looks. Great idea!
As for your BMI mention — on a personal level BMI is absolute BS. BMI was never meant to be used how it is by the public as perpetuated by the medical community in general. Since it’s the middle of the night and I’m foggy, I won’t go look for references, but maybe this will make you feel better about your thoughts on BMI - the perpetuation of it’s use is lazy (sorry BMI lovers) because frankly there are better indices to use (body fat % ranges, for example). However, it’s been standardized as a “tool” for classifying things without regard for WHY it was developed in the first place. I could argue a harmful tool since the vast majority of people don’t know it has some real restrictions. I will likely never (and it’s not my goal), see a healthy BMI. Why is it BS? Simple, BMI was developed, to be used, in experiments or summarize data for entire populations of people. NOT an individual within a population. From a statistical standpoint a metric developed for population characteristics should not be used as a description of one (you’d want quite a few more). In the case of BMI specifically, that means — do you have extra muscle? Overweight or obese is the outcome. Many professional athletes are obese using BMI. Are you large framed? Congrats, you are likely overweight according to BMI. There may be other things that throw you outside of “normal/healthy” as well. Hopefully that was helpful and not a rehashing of something you already knew. 😂2 -
lauriekallis wrote: »Made it to the end....and to the end of PAV's post and there is not a thing I could say that would add anything except...Sometimes we just gotta go on faith which takes a lot of strength - but wow, NerdyGrl, you seem that have a lot of that!
Thank you! I’ll keep this short and sweet because I could probably write another novel on faith, strength and ultimately perseverance. The day I dropped the “I HAVE to lose weight” and shifted to a wellness perspective - my entire outlook changed. The expectations shifted from fighting my body to finding peace in the imperfections and speed bumps. Catch me at the wrong time (luckily infrequent) and frustration will have its say but it’s short lived - tiramisu helps 😉🙃😊3 -
I read everything, too!…although I do not suffer from this, my husband has severe RA and Spinal Stenosis along with Type 2 Diabetes and some heart problems with a stent….( he is a mess! )… so I understand what you are going through….he also had prostate cancer but has been cancer free 15 years!…too much prednisone causes severe nose bleeds and makes him hungry…although at times he is depressed and has so much pain, he gets up hopeful every morning and keeps his wonderful sarcastic sense of humor….constantly makes me laugh….
Keep up the great progress you are working on and keep putting one foot in front of the other….my thoughts are with you!3 -
Go Connie and nerdyscience! Impressive reads Laurie: I've been training you, right? 😇
I mistyped because remember upside down on a couch with a laptop bonking my head every time I nodded off!🤯
BMI above = BIA (bio impedance) my bad.
Comparison I was after was bia to dexa during weight loss to see if BIA was providing anything approaching usefulness.
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There's a lot of threads on BMI in the main forums.
My take is clear and pretty much mirrors this article I wish I had found before reading a whole bunch of other stuff re BMI and the various historical revisions to BMI ranges and categories (where they start, end, and to whom they apply)
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/trends-fads/is-bmi-accurate-measuring-body-fat
To what the article mentions as possible errors I would add the much bigger categories who have a higher probability of incorrectly predicting body fat based on BMI: shorter (esp women) where a normal BMI has a higher likelihood to understimate fat levels, and taller (esp men) where a higher BMI may overestimate fat levels.
A BMI measurement together with a visual inspection should be enough to see whether any further investigation re fat levels is necessary. It is incorrect to use BMI in isolation.
Waist to height, hip to waist, BIA scales and even skin calipers all have huge margins of error and measurement issues too, and are far less simple to implement.
Furthermore fat levels by themselves do not determine current or future health!
Disclosure: in my personal case it is incredible how closely I tracked to population averages.
TDEE a tiny bit below predicted now, though during initial weight loss it was bang on.
Dexa scan body fat results in close proximity to fat % expectations set by various BMI to body fat conversion equations.
If you want to cry about body fat measurements, Krieger's weightology blog articles, though now getting a bit dated, have interesting discussions about margins of error and various body fat estimation methods
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I am going to totally jump in with nothing relevant at all to anything youve been discussing so feel free to ignore me.
on another thread somewhere I was replying to something and then I kind of went off on this tangent. which... wasn't totally IRRELEVANT to my reply but also wasn't totally RELEVANT. But I had taken ALL THIS TIME to TYPE ALL THIS OUT and felt i needed to put it SOMEWHERE.
so this is that... SOMEWHERE.
feel free to... comment or ignore or .... whatever. LOL
Heck - PERFECT case in point- me in the grocery store this morning. typically, I make pancakes or waffles and breakfast sandwich's for my son (teenager) in a big batch and freeze them individually, and he pulls out however many he wants and heats them up before school. cheaper (and healthier) than buying the premade jimmy dean ones. I hadn't made any more this past weekend, so he ran out from the previous batch I had made. ALMOST- CAME SO CLOSE to just grabbing a box of them at the store this morning. just to fill in for a couple of days till the weekend. thats all. i didnt feel like coming home and making freaking sausage, egg and cheese biscuits (even though i do cheat and buy frozen or refrigerated biscuits, i still have to bake them lol). had the freezer case door pulled open, even. then finally the logical voice in my head shouted loud enough for me to hear 'really? what ELSE do you have to do today? ' and i went and got the sausage and biscuits because literally, I had cheese and eggs LOL.
But how many DON'T make that choice? Or think they dont have the time? Or think it's more expensive? (granted, I dont have to buy the eggs, but I have to buy everything else. I could make the biscuits, if I wanted to... save money there, I suppose). Take what I buy in the store, or you (though I have more carbs- in various forms, and more fruits and veggies? probably?), or even most of us who are on MFP, but then (I'll use for example) the family in the till right across from me at the store this morning. young family, maybe mid-late 20's. cute little girl- no more than 3. both parents probably into the obese category (observation, not judgement, im trying to get OUT of it still!). and a buggy filled with every processed food the store had, it seemed. Now, we dont know what they had at home. only what was in their buggy. frozen pizzas and spaghettios and hot pockets, and raviolis, hamburger helper, mac and cheese, frozen waffles and pancakes and not a veggie or fruit in sight. couple of bags of rice. lots of sodas. and its not that i dont buy any convenience foods- i do. i had one of those little EVOL frozen things for lunch today. I buy a 6 pack of sprite zero every week and have one almost every day. its literally the only soda i can drink .i eat oreos and chocolate. Not saying I have a perfect 'diet'. i eat crap foods and dont deny that. but i also eat an overall, fairly well balanced diet most of the time that is primarily 'real' foods that are homemade. a lot of salads and veg. a lot of lean meats. not much comes out of a can or box. if anything, i need to eat more meat. PLENTY of room for improvement in my 'diet', so I am under no pretext of being perfect. But, I like to think, that maybe, I do slightly better than the 'average' american household. And, if based on what I see in our local stores is indicative of 'average' - I'd say I'm doing pretty damned good.
but a lot of families- people- for whatever reason, do not. my sister is one. always off and on fad diets, usually off, I long ago stopped giving advice, because despite my weight loss, she knows FAR more than I do. Pretty much lives on a diet of chick fil a, taco bell, frozen meals, cookies, chips, and guacamole. and hummus 'but its healthy'.... well into the obese category, not sure if shed fall into morbidly obese yet because of her height, but maybe. its just her. she doesn't know how to cook. she moved to a new city, signed up for hello fresh, bought all new pots and pans and kitchen utensils, and cancelled it within 2 weeks because 'it took too long and was too much effort'. She is 30 years old almost 31 and literally called me not long ago asking how to cook link sausage. My husband does not know how we can possibly be related. LOL I do remind him that we were raised basically, by entirely different families LOL
no point to any of this really.
discuss amongst yourselves. :P
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I read this and hear you loud and clear….my doctor says it is amazing how I am his only overweight patient that actually tells him they are fat because of what they eat and the amount! SMH!…I love it when an overweight person “ doesn’t eat a thing”…obviously they are eating something!…and when you tell them you lost weight by counting calories, they look at you like you have three heads!….it breaks my heart to see obese children….usually the parents are, too….2
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@NerdyScienceGrl I made it to the end too, and it was one of the most inspirational posts I've read in a long while!
Nothing much to add to what the others have already written except to second the observation re the prednisone hunger and water retention. My husband suffered huge bloating and water retention when he was on prednisone (6+ litres would be removed at each dialysis session, compared with 2 litres when he wasn't taking prednisone), coupled with ravening hunger. Since his transplant he's on a lifetime triple therapy regime of prednisolene, cyclosporin and Azathioprine and he finds prednisolene less problematic than prednisone, though obviously they have much in common. Like @PAV8888, I think it almost miraculous that you didn't actually gain when taking prednisone...everyone I know who's taken it has gained actual fat from the hunger side-effect.
I also want to second @LaurieKallis when she says that you seem to have strength and faith in spades. It sounds like you need it, but needing it and having it don't always coincide, so kudos to you for keeping your spirits high and managing your mental health through what sounds like a frustrating and challenging set of obstacles.
@ConnieWilkins, it's wonderful that your husband wakes each day with a positive attitude. During the 25+ years that I've sat beside my husband during his dialysis and other medical treatments, I've seen some patients make their spouses' lives an utter misery. I've never been so grateful for having a stoic and uncomplaining life partner!2 -
conniewilkins56 wrote: »I read everything, too!…although I do not suffer from this, my husband has severe RA and Spinal Stenosis along with Type 2 Diabetes and some heart problems with a stent….( he is a mess! )… so I understand what you are going through….he also had prostate cancer but has been cancer free 15 years!…too much prednisone causes severe nose bleeds and makes him hungry…although at times he is depressed and has so much pain, he gets up hopeful every morning and keeps his wonderful sarcastic sense of humor….constantly makes me laugh….
Keep up the great progress you are working on and keep putting one foot in front of the other….my thoughts are with you!
Aw thank you! ❤️ I feel for your husband! Spinal stenosis.. 😣. I wouldn’t wish nerve pain on my worst enemy and it’s not something easily described for those who don’t have it. It turns me from a chill, accepting human into a reactionary, impatient jerk (to put it nicely) in seconds. But, let’s talk about how lucky he is to have a wife that stands by, supports and looks forward to his sense of humor! You are amazing lady! 😁. Sometimes it’s awfully difficult for us messy folks to remember to show gratitude for our loved one.2 -
Go Connie and nerdyscience! Impressive reads Laurie: I've been training you, right? 😇
I mistyped because remember upside down on a couch with a laptop bonking my head every time I nodded off!🤯
BMI above = BIA (bio impedance) my bad.
Comparison I was after was bia to dexa during weight loss to see if BIA was providing anything approaching usefulness
I don’t know anything about BIA 🤷♀️. Time to research!1 -
Don't bother! Electronic scale fat measurement,
Bioelectrical impedance analysis3 -
Bella_Figura wrote: »@NerdyScienceGrl I made it to the end too, and it was one of the most inspirational posts I've read in a long while!
Nothing much to add to what the others have already written except to second the observation re the prednisone hunger and water retention. My husband suffered huge bloating and water retention when he was on prednisone (6+ litres would be removed at each dialysis session, compared with 2 litres when he wasn't taking prednisone), coupled with ravening hunger. Since his transplant he's on a lifetime triple therapy regime of prednisolene, cyclosporin and Azathioprine and he finds prednisolene less problematic than prednisone, though obviously they have much in common. Like @PAV8888, I think it almost miraculous that you didn't actually gain when taking prednisone...everyone I know who's taken it has gained actual fat from the hunger side-effect.
I also want to second @LaurieKallis when she says that you seem to have strength and faith in spades. It sounds like you need it, but needing it and having it don't always coincide, so kudos to you for keeping your spirits high and managing your mental health through what sounds like a frustrating and challenging set of obstacles.
@ConnieWilkins, it's wonderful that your husband wakes each day with a positive attitude. During the 25+ years that I've sat beside my husband during his dialysis and other medical treatments, I've seen some patients make their spouses' lives an utter misery. I've never been so grateful for having a stoic and uncomplaining life partner!
Okay, so this made me tear up. Thank you for your kind words. I was hoping beyond the “patience and compassion”, this would be a post I could return to when I do get frustrated with the scale or get impatient. That it’d remind me that weight loss is not a perfect science.
I tend to be sensitive to medications and have to go into any prescribe corticosteroids with a clear head and remind myself that my inner, instant gratification seeking child is going to want to eat — and eat everything. I held the voice at bay for 5-days which was a huge success. The last two, I should have turned the TV off — if I saw people eat, I wanted their food too. I am lucky in the sense I know I’m not hungry, it’s all a switch that flips and craves anything and everything I see, literally. This time donuts for whatever was the trigger. I probably hadn’t had a donut in years or thought about buying one. I don’t know much about steroids in general like the cause of water weight. It’s an uncomfortable side effect. I find it strange how long it lasts too.
Maybe someday when I have the mental fortitude, I can share some of the tools in my toolbox that have really helped find the strength and drive. I find inspiration in hearing about others facing much more serious and painful lives that are able to face each day and be kind.
As I mentioned in my post to Connie, significant others of people with health problems don’t get enough acknowledgment. It sounds like you have an SO that faces the day with his own struggle, it makes me smile knowing others have wonderful support. ❤️3 -
I was trying to describe to my husband (who's never had a problem with obesity/binges/uncontrolled eating) what it feels like to be me....
I don't have the art skills of @LaurieKallis, but I tried to draw it....
Use your imagination, and pretend this is a cross-section of the planet. Under the seemingly solid surface, there's a teeming river of molten lava (my appetite). Sometimes the river flows deep under mountains of rock (my resolve), where it's well contained and safe. At those times I'm barely aware it's there because it's buried so deeply.
Sometimes the lava flows precariously close to the surface, with just the thinnest layer of rock keeping it contained. All is good as long as there's no fissure in the rock, but it's impossible to ignore the heat, thrumming and throb under my feet. It's unsettling and uncomfortable.
And sometimes the lava breaches the earth's crust, and explodes into the air, laying waste to everything in its path.
The explosions aren't always predictable. Sometimes you have some warning of an imminent eruption; sometimes you don't. Sometimes you think you're safely out of danger, but you're not.
From the top of a snowcapped mountain it's easy to be complacent and think all the volcanoes are extinct. They're not. One crack is all it takes...
Sometimes a seismic event (e.g. Christmas) can be enough to keep the volcano erupting for months...7 -
Thank you! You have visually captured what I’ve experienced all my life. While I’m within 25 lbs. of goal, my personal Mt. Vesuvius is still bubbling. I’m printing out your drawing and putting it on my refrigerator.3
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Everything….exactly how I feel all the time…..1
