Thoughts, Epiphanies, Insights, & Quotables
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Oooooo light bulb moment here!…..I knew I was obese….I know I am still overweight BUT I have myself trained to only look at myself in the mirror from the chest up!…I do not have a huge chubby face and I think I have learned how or trained myself to only look at the smaller picture instead of the big picture!…that being said, my family is made up of a lot of large people!…my husband is 6’1” and our son is 6’8”…. Next to them I do look small or normal sized!…in a group shot I never stand out as “ bigger”… put me next to my slim and trim daughter in law and I look like a giant!…our own perception of ourselves can be as much a help as a hindrance….maybe an extremely obese person really doesn’t realize how large they really are!….they know but they don’t KNOW!
Does this make sense?2 -
Years ago we were celebrating our daughters confirmation at church….our family took up one entire pew, maybe 12 of us…during the service I noticed the people in front of us and started counting bodies!…20 of them!…yep, 20 people in the same size pew as we were in and they were not crowded!…( but we were prettier! )2
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Obviously your family was much better looking than the small crowd in front!
My family is all average sized so at my heaviest I was very noticeable. But my size didn’t prevent me from having a good life- happy, long marriage to a loving husband, terrific son, successful career, supportive family, even kind and loving in-laws. Maybe that’s why I allowed myself to get so big? No one was complaining except my body. And like Connie, I never truly saw myself even in the mirror.
Lots to think about here as I work on the last pounds this year. 🤔2 -
Threads like this - full of wisdom and experience - are treasure to me!
PAV, I agree that the 'natural behaviour' definitely has an element of conscious management. As I said in this thread about my MIL, there is more management going on to maintain these slim physiques than us fat folks notice - it's just done without any fuss, fanfare or demonstrable signs of discontent.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10798208/what-did-you-need-to-learn#latest
Amongst my slimster test subjects, there was also definitely a greater emphasis on food rules. I can't have chips today because I had them yesterday. I never eat after 7pm. I make it a rule always to leave half of every dessert, I never snack between meals etc...
What I think is less consciously managed is the NEAT burn. I don't think my test subjects deliberately and consciously moved more in order to ramp up their calorie burn. They moved more because they have more energy to burn. Because they get cold sitting still. Because they're naturally fidgety. Because in some cases they're 'highly strung' or have type-A personalities that can't tolerate disorder and so feel consciously compelled to get up and tidy...
I also observed that they all seemed to have nuturing personalities - perhaps with an underlying element of martyrdom. So they would prioritise the needs of other people and demote their own, taking pleasure in waiting on other people, getting up to fetch them things and keep them supplied with food and drink etc but never serving themselves anything.
And re your point about being happy to spend time and effort managing my weight for the rest of my life - yes, I absolutely agree that the trade off and the extra investment of effort is it worth it for the overall higher quality of life.
@Yoolypr I share your mystification and perplexity. Where we differ is that I was always ABSOLUTELY aware that the pounds were piling on, but I felt completely and utterly unable to do anything to stop it. I'd sit on the edge of the bed and poke my fat rolls, saying out loud to myself 'You MUST do something about this!', and then I'd put on some clothes and go downstairs and stuff my face. Even as I was eating something calorie-laden, I'd say to myself: 'You're so going to regret this when you finally get your act together and start losing weight, because you'll have a huge amount of weight to lose, not just a pound or two.' Or I'd say to myself as I eyed up a cake: 'This could be the cake that finally tips you over the edge into diabetes! Don't eat it!' And then I'd go ahead and eat it anyway. Nothing I said to myself made a jot of difference.
So definitely some dysfunctional pyschology at work there.
As for body dysmorphia, that's something I've never experienced. I've always been pretty good at judging how much space my body takes up. I can usually guess accurately what jeans/dress will fit without looking at the label, and I'm good at judging that I'd be able to squeeze through gap A, I'd get stuck in gap B and I'd breeze through gap C without touching the sides.
Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I'm surrounded by people who all take up more vertical space than I do. I'm under 5'1, so I'm used to being the shortest person everywhere I go - and that makes me hyper-aware of how much horizontal space I take up. At my heaviest, my girth was only 10 inches less than my height.
Luckily, like Yoolypr, my weight hasn't stopped me having a full, loving and happy life. But it has limited my options at times, and caused me to miss opportunities that I would've embraced with gusto if I'd been slimmer.
And one final point - I never look in mirrors! Even if I'm standing directly in front of one (e.g. when I'm brushing my teeth). I may even seem to be staring into the mirror but my thoughts are off somewhere else, so I never SEE myself in it. Which explains why my husband has got into the habit of checking me over before we leave the house, as if I'm a toddler. He's the person who tells me if I have spinach stuck between my teeth, or hair sticking up bizarrely on one side of my head, or a smudge of soot on my chin. He'll send me back to the mirror to check the offending blemish, and I'll come back and it'll still be there, because even going to the mirror specifically to address the spinach/cowlick/smudge I'll still forget to look!
So much to think about and unpick in this thread....3 -
I've been mulling this thread over all morning.
I don't watch TV much, but I DO like documentaries that showcase the awesome achievements of ultra-endurance cyclists. The type of men and women who cycle solo and unsupported around the globe to break the world record; the type who think that cycling from northern Alaska to the southernmost tip of Patagonia is a fun way to spend the summer; the type who decide to ride the trans-continental race in under 7 days. These athletes aren't like normal people. They have almost super-human tolerance for pain, discomfort and tiredness. They positively thrive on testing themselves to their limits. They itch for the next challenge, the next adventure, the next leg-burning, lung-busting trip. We mere mortals can only watch in amazement.
But, thinking of mere mortals, clearly there is a huge spectrum covering the lengths to which ordinary people are willing to push themselves.
My eldest sister is at one extreme of the spectrum. By her own admission, she abhors effort of every kind. Physically, she avoids anything that works up a sweat, because she associates sweat with unpleasantness, lack of femininity, suffering. She never pushes her boundaries. She has zero tolerance for pain, discomfort, effort. This aversion to effort extends to all areas of her life. She is a lifelong low-achiever, who has never been able to dig deep when the going gets tough, be that with a diet, a job, a marriage etc. She is one of life's perennial quitters.
Is it a coincidence that she's by far the most overweight person in our overweight family, with a BMI north of 50? Is there a cause/effect correlation? Is she fat because she dislikes effort? Or does she dislike effort because she's fat? She says she disliked effort even in early childhood, when her weight wasn't an issue - the obesity didn't develop until her late 20s; but she's hated pushing herself her whole life.
Clearly there are psychological or genetic factors that influence how active someone is willing to be, what pain threshold they're willing to tolerate, and how much they enjoy or dislike physically pushing themselves.
Is this down to nature or nurture? My parents both had a very strong work ethic - they believed working hard was a noble, character-building quality. Both were always willing to push themselves beyond their physical limits, even into their 80s and 90s. Neither ever had a weight problem. But they indulged their children, and never pushed any of us to stretch our boundaries. Of their four daughters, 3 of use have battled obesity all our lives.
We'll probably never fully understand the physical, psychological and emotional factors that lead one person down an active, strenuous, challenging path and another down a path of ease and indolence. Is it possible to switch from one path to the other, just by sheer effort of will? Possibly - but the motivation would have to be enormous.
My sister always says that if someone could synthesise willpower, grit and fortitude she'd be the first in line to buy some. Until they do, she has to rely on her inner reserves, and the tanks are empty.
My mind is buzzing this morning as I mull all this over....
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This thread is so very thought provoking. These two ideas really caught my attention this morning:
"...I agree that the 'natural behaviour' definitely has an element of conscious management. As I said in this thread about my MIL, there is more management going on to maintain these slim physiques than us fat folks notice - it's just done without any fuss, fanfare or demonstrable signs of discontent."
Yes - I've observed this also, but wasn't even really conscious of it until you mention it! This is an attitude I really need to emulate. And I will learn how to. I think we all will because of how much effort everyone is willing to put into this - the self awareness, honest reflection, and determination to make the necessary changes required to be lighter and fitter and healthier.
MIRRORS! Wow. Me too - I have lots of mirrors in my house because it tends to be a bit on the dark side, and small. I don't tend to see myself in these mirrors. But when people visit for the first time - some mention the mirrors and clearly are compelled to look at themselves and may comment about how odd it would be to see yourself so much. When I check out new clothing (or take a selfy to send my good friend who lives too far to see often) I "look" in the mirror or point the camera in that direction - but still don't really "see" me. Not until a long time later maybe when I look at the picture and consider my "size" from the distance of much passed time.
I have no reliable concept of my the size of my body. The change rooms being closed because of the pandemic has been a real challenge as I've shopped for new clothes during this past year. Losing 100 pounds called for new clothing - but wow it was hard! And my "awareness" (or lack of) changes from day to day - sometimes hour to hour. Sometimes I cannot believe I will fit into a piece of clothing that looks so "small" and then the next moment I'm horrified by how enormous my jeans look.
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Some things are transient: size changing and awareness/lack of awareness as you change weight + a certain time frame is pretty normal
But having learned to habitually not see ones self is a different longer term issue
I spent 35 years trying to "save" effort, optimize "wasted" movement. And then a couple of years trying to be as inefficient as can be (physical limitations notwithstanding, because these do exist, obviously, the NEAT maximization thread in the main forums was quite interesting). It has definitely made a difference to be deliberately inefficient at times!
And a reminder as I am limping along and as I was thinking way back about maintaining in my 80s 😹: it's what goes in that counts first. In the end way more (when directly considered) for weight control, though activity definitely helps my mood.
Btw: small Halloween candy is evil 👿 🐹 they are so small, what 45, 50, 60, 70 Cal each that anyone can fit them, right? 😇
WRONG🤬
(I'm preaching to MY 🐹, maybe they'll listen)
Because they're tiny they don't rate the consideration a full size bar would receive. And they last even less long than the already too short lasting for their calories full size candy bars!
So will the tiny Twix (or other "fun size" bar) ever be consumed without friends? Of course not! But eat three and you're already at a full bar's calories. And eat one of each kind and you're closer to a bar and a half --- or more (there's 5 in the house 😇)
And then there's sales 🤬🥺🙀1 -
Selling chocolate at sale prices should be a criminal offence! Crimes against humanity...2
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Yup - 50% off the day after Halloween. Of course you need to be at the Walmart at the crack of dawn and fight off the half- crazed chubby ladies. I’m skipping Halloween altogether. 😈3
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Sadly... there's always enough half priced ones available at the stores I go to.... even at the crack of midnight!
Will my 🐹🐹🐹s act smart(er) this year? 🤔
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I have been glued to reading & rereading these posts as I work out evaluating / balancing weight loss goals and health from @NovusDies & everyone all week. Great solid advice & I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all these nuggets of wisdom, often collated with humor & kindness…..3
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I was mulling over my relative success in losing - and keeping off (for a year) - a substantial amount of weight. Oh I’d done it once or twice before with little success, deprivation and daily hunger. This time has been so much easier. Honestly I think a lot of it has been having the time to care for myself. When I had more family responsibilities, a job and more worries, I was always last. One of the perks of getting older has been letting go.
I am so impressed that so many of you can do it all and still lose weight. I’m cheering you on!2 -
I talked to a registered dietitian for the first time today. I'm not sure I agree with some of her comments, but I did find a few remarks of hers intriguing and worth diving deeper into.
The TL;DR version:- Focus on healthy eating more than calorie tracking, using MFP more as a food journal.
- It's better to go at it slowly and steadily.
- Hunger pains stem from dehydration, true hunger signals, unbalanced prior meal, or emotional needs. How to differentiate actual hunger signals from emotional hunger pains depends on time. Real hunger pains occur after about two hours from our last meal slowly. We're supposed to be eating every 3-4 hours while we're awake.
- If we open the fridge, but nothing appeals to us, we're looking for emotional fulfillment. So delay the munchies, find alternatives, and determine why we need to comfort ourselves with food.
- Treat food like medicine. Of course, we need enough nutrients to sustain ourselves, but "overdosing" is terrible.
The more extended, more detailed version for those interested in reading:
Comments I can agree with:- Rather than focusing on calorie tracking, focus more on healthy eating.
- She recommended the plate method to ensure I'm getting the right amount of nutrients our bodies need to survive. For those who don't know what the plate method is, it's to take a 9"/22.86cm plate and divide it into sections: Fill half the plate with fiber dense, starchy(?) vegetables, a quarter of the plate with a form of lean protein (i.e., salmon, lean chicken, etc.), and the last quarter with dense, complex carbohydrates (i.e., brown rice or quinoa).
- The best way to get healthy fats is to take the actual food as part of our diets, i.e., actually eating the avocados and olives, etc.
- Slow and steady is how you keep the weight off, including adding exercise and choosing nutritious food items instead. It's also the healthier way to go about it, rather than continuously cycling between losing the weight and gaining it, only to need to lose it. Apparently, it's a cause of gall issues and stomach-related illnesses or cancer? Unfortunately, I wasn't too focused on that topic, so I don't remember what she said exactly. The video visit wasn't the best of connections, either.
- With cooking oils, it doesn't matter the type as long as it's closest to the natural source and buy the most miniature bottle available. It's meant to be used sparingly and keep the food from sticking to the pan. She recommends staying away from coconut oil and one other oil because those aren't heart-healthy and contain a high content of saturated fats.
- Like the first item I listed initially, use MFP as a food journal instead of focusing on calorie tracking. I believe she was trying to warn me about limiting myself and not taking in enough nutrients due to the calorie limit. Though I think it's possible to still be within the calorie limit and have a nutritiously dense meal, I just need to find those ingredients.
- According to her, we're supposed to be eating every 3-4 hours, so after around 2 hours, we will start receiving valid hunger signals slowly. Hunger pains that happen almost instantly result from dehydration or sugar crash due to an earlier unbalanced meal. Or we're really trying to satisfy an emotional need because we're culturally trained to associate comfort with food.
- If I open the fridge, but nothing appeals to me, it's a sure sign that I'm looking for emotional fulfillment rather than nutritional satiety. At that point, the dietitian urged me to look to alternatives, such as talking with friends, taking a self-care break, or doing something I enjoy. The main point is to delay munching and instead figure out why we need to comfort ourselves with food.
- The most thought-provoking thing of all: Think of treating food like medicine. We need enough to sustain our bodies nutritionally. So if we ate our nutrient-rich plate of food mindfully and still want more, we're now trying to fulfill an emotional need. At that point, it's OK to have that ice cream or whatever it is that makes that need satisfied. So the dietitian urged me to be present and mindful when eating that ice cream or whatever it is to tune ourselves to when the emotional need is fulfilled. At the same time, because we're mindfully enjoying said ice cream, our brains now have time to catch up and send that "I'm full!" signal.
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Gallstones are often associated with rapid and significant weight loss. Pretty high correlation.
Coconut oil claims to have some good mojo medium chain (I believe) triglycerides supposedly negating the fact it is a saturated oil (solid at room temp). Problem is most National heart associations after looking at evidence... still say no (or at least they did three years ago when I checked)
Many people resent or get triggered by counting or set extreme goals. Some people find freedom in counting, especially when associated with reasonable and flexible goals
I would rather count than worry about making my plate pretty and not too empty and not too full. This may obviously not work as well for everyone. Doesn't mean I don't eat my veggies either 😹
While I was losing weight and even now quite often when I'm back home without encumbrances! I have multiple snacks and no formal meal.
Encumbrances tend to want real meals. Fitting them in the day makes things a bit harder!
The best thing is that you're exploring and thinking about what will work best for you! 🐹🤔❣️3 -
That’s it! Multiple snacks instead of a third formal meal. That’s what I’ve been trying this week and so far so good. Probably won’t work for most people though. I do log all snacks. Party is over when I reach calories limit.4
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That’s it! Multiple snacks instead of a third formal meal. That’s what I’ve been trying this week and so far so good. Probably won’t work for most people though. I do log all snacks. Party is over when I reach calories limit.
I can see how that option might work - but for me, the snacks tend to be high calorie enough to add up to more than quality, filling meal very quickly.
I think I just need to have a chef on-hand to quickly bring me a healthy, filling, low calorie meal whenever I feel a bit peckish
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The adverts for gyms, exercise equipment, diet food plans and low cal groceries are out in full force. While I know none of this will last or lead to long term weight loss, I find them to be helpful. Can’t escape the reminders to do better this time of year!4
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@conniewilkins56 @lauriekallis, I came across this post in the Success Stories thread on the main part of the community site: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10849384/how-i-overcame-binge-eating-ride-the-craving-wave#latest
I thought you might find it helpful....'Hi everyone. In this long post, I go over how I overcame my Binge Eating. I used to have very problematic eating in the evenings (a common problem) and could easily munch on 1000s of calories to the point where I felt absolutely stuffed/sick. I had no idea how much I was consuming. This would also happen to me in the mornings, (which may be less common) and would stop by the drive-thru on my way to work and order over 1000 calories for breakfast. Anyway...
Two years ago, I attended a 6-week workshop called "Craving Change" to help overcome overeating. I learned a lot. The first two weeks were about taking note of emotions before, during and after eating. Interestingly, like addicts with drugs, the brain lights up most in the moments immediately BEFORE we consume. It's not about the actual eating/food. We also worked through what triggers the overeating - a time, place, person, feeling, etc. We identified if hunger was really "stomach hunger" (physical hunger) or if it was "mouth" (all about the taste/texture) or "heart hunger" (filling a need that has nothing to do with hunger, often emotional, but also could be a habit or wanting to please others, etc.)
My workshop had a repertoire of skills to try out and choose from to help stop problematic eating behaviours. The one that worked the best for me was to visualize an ocean wave and "ride the craving wave." Like a wave on an ocean, a craving slowly builds up. It then becomes very big, powerful, overwhelming. But then with time, it crests, falls, and the ocean returns to calm. You can imagine your craving like a wave. It will pass with time.
Day 1, wait 30 seconds before giving into the craving. Then give yourself permission to eat whatever you are craving with no judgement. The next time, add 30 seconds to your wait time. Then eat the food. Keep incrementally adding time each time you feel a craving. Each time you feel a craving is a new learning opporunity and chance to practice your skill. Eventually you will wait 5 minutes, 10 minutes... Research shows that a craving can pass after 15-20 minutes, so you may not even want the thing anymore! During your wait time, actually picture the ocean wave in your mind, picture it as it gets stronger, and visualize the moment when it will return to calm.
While I am riding out the wave, I also like to repeat to myself my favourite mantras and quotes. What is your favourite motivational quote/mantras?
The time is going to pass anyway, you might as well spend it working towards your goals.
You will never always be motivated, so you must learn to always be disciplined.
There is no one big step that does it. It is a lot of little steps.
I pair all this with even more strategies: have a big glass of water, tea, or flavored seltzer water while you are waiting. Remove yourself from the place (go for a walk, get off the couch and tidy up, etc.) Call a friend. Work on hobby (something that involves hands is best.) Brush your teeth. Journal.
Also a big one: don't keep junk food in the house! My house is now a no-chip and no-candy zone.
The biggest first step is to PAUSE before eating. Take note of why you are eating, either mentally or actually writing it down. Then choose to eat if you want, but now at least you know why you are doing it. Eventually, with practice, I am able to keep my goals in mind and have those be stronger than any cravings. Now that even more time has passed where eating in the evenings isn't a thing for me anymore, the cravings often don't come at all. I have a much healthier relationship with food.
The hardest part about weightloss is not diet or exercise - it's PATIENCE. It takes a long time. I constantly remind myself that we are in this for the long haul. We are in this for life! If I have a bad day, I log it and move on - the most important thing is getting right back to it the next day. It's about sticking with it. Dedication and persistence will pay off over time.
Good luck everyone. Try this out and remember to be patient with yourself. It really works!5 -
Thank you Bella….I saw this, too and found up it interesting…a binge for me is not 1000 calories….it is more likely 10, 000…. I like the riding the wave concept….2
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Having anxiety eating. Waiting on son’s covid test results is making me look for comfort. He’s not very ill - vaccinated, boostered- but still not well. Hubby and I are both over 70 and spent many hours with son in close contact. Are we asymptomatic? Do I need to cancel appointments, isolate??? Maybe he just has a cold? Argghhh!
Anxiety is usually my trigger to eat everything. Hope the test results come soon although may take up to 3 days! No food is safe right now.2 -
Take it as easy as you can @Yoolypr
If you're super concerned about who you're meeting you could cancel appointments and limit yourself a little bit as a courtesy and within reason.
Regardless of WHAT type of cold (other, or COVID, or flu) your son does have *something* and you have been exposed to it. So your chance of having *something* show up over the next five days is not zero and of course people are at highest contagion before and at symptom onset not just for COVID but for other coronaviruses and the flu too.
Having said that. He is not well but not very ill. That should be a tiny bit of comfort.
I hope you continue in good health! Maybe use the energy you have to cook some chicken soup?!?!?! ((((HUGZ)))) <-- but socially distanced!
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Thank you PAV! I’ve always been a worrier which accounts for massive comfort eating in the past.
No test results yet. Son is not feeling well but no worse. He’s had all possible vaccinations and flu shots, as we have, so the possibility is breakthrough virus, flu or a cold. The outlier is allergies which are high right now in our area. I know northerners don’t think of winter as allergy season but we have something every month. It’s trees and cedars currently.
I’ve cancelled all appointments and contacts for the week. Like everyone else in the world, I’m tired of being worried and wary.4 -
I admit to not even remotely thinking of allergies while it is pouring buckets of visible chunks of water!
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Allergies in Florida are bad, too….my eyes have been itchy a couple of days!2
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Bella - that was a great post you shared. Thank you. So many things she noted resonated with me. I copied this one:
You will never always be motivated, so you must learn to always be disciplined.
Because I know that is something I need to take note of. I'm terribly undisciplined - which isn't usually a problem because I am usually very highly motivated and that gets me through. But every once and a while motivation fails me.
PATIENCE ???!!!!! What's that?
So many things to consider/try/be aware of.
Allergies
one good thing about our winter - pretty well none for a few months at least (except Christmas trees 
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Yooly - hope you get the results soon, and your son's test comes back negative, then you can all relax again - for a little bit anyway.4 -
I want to wake up on January 1, 2023 without thinking about how much weight I still need to lose. I know I’ll have to keep daily tracking in maintenance. However that feeling of failing yet again would be gone. So this is the year I get it done.4
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I was pondering the human experience of two + years of mask wearing. It’s well documented that people interact socially based on facial expression- even micro expressions. Has the inability to fully see each other’s faces created some of the anger, social disfunction and downright violence? Are we not SEEING each other or not perceiving each other’s humanity? Even dogs and cats react to their human’s face. What will become of the children whose school and social experiences have removed facial/emotional cues? I surely miss living in an unmasked world.3
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Me too, Yooly. I'm rather astonished at how accustomed I've become to masks - and really how expressive faces are from the mask upward.
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But maybe that is just an illusion to help me cope?2
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I am very surprised as to how come clear masks have not become the rule rather than the exception2
