Chat room - what's on your mind?
Options
Replies
-
@mtaratoot I am researching slowly, but think it’s possible that a lot of it is people repeating the same stuff and there are only a few studies it all rests on. I will have to look up those studies!
Same with that fad where you have to all of a sudden eat a specific number of plants - 20 or so (I looked that paper up and it wasn’t great). I will summarize some time and in the meantime continue to experiment (n=1 😂).2 -
Have you read the guide that describes the research/reasoning behind Examine.com's protein "calculator"?@henridw2095 and @Maya440
I'd love to hear a redux on what you're learning about protein. Back in 7th grade, that consumer reports article that encouraged me to try to forego meat (which I did for decades) showed that we can get all the protein we need from plants. It went on to explain how most Americans at least ate far more protein than they needed. Excess protein is extra work for our kidneys.
That was a long time ago, and even today the US RDA for protein is 0.36 grams per pound of body weight (0.8 grams per Kg). I am fairly certain that's total body mass, not lean mass. That is indeed pretty easy to meet. I see plenty of recommendations for 0.8 to 1.2 grams per pound is the "Holy Grail." Sorry. Couldn't resist
That's a huge difference. Is it possible some people just see the 0.8 grams per kilogram and neglect to recognize that a Kg is 2.2 pounds? Or is it possible that the US RDA is wrong? I bet the optimal amount is probably somewhere between 0.4 and 0.8, and it might be closer to the low end except for body building. Another exception we know is that the number can increase with age as our bodies have a little harder time assimilating it.
Anyway, I'm interested in a synopsis of what you've been reading if you have time.
https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/
It does a good job IMO reviewing research that suggests that some sub-populations may benefit from protein intake higher than the USDA recommendations. I think you know I'm a "higher protein" advocate for those who are losing weight, active, aging, or vegetarian/vegan, among others. They are very specific about the research that they believes supports their contention that the USDA recommendations are sub-ideal for many people.
I suspect you have read the Prot-age recommendation for 65+ folks, but I'll link that here in case others are interested.
https://www.jamda.com/article/S1525-8610(13)00326-5/fulltext
I've been accused here on MFP of confusing pounds with kilos when it comes to protein recommendations, and I have to say it kind of ticked me off. It's unhelpful that the 0.6-0.8g per pound per day that I think is useful during weight loss (among other cases) has the same numbers attached as the 0.6-0.8g per kilo that's the general basic mainstream recommendation from USDA and others. But I do mean pounds, personally.
Yes, the research is usually in terms of pounds or kilos of bodyweight, but IMU it can be healthy goal weight pounds/kilos, not necessarily current pounds/kilos for people who are very overweight. (The Examine guide mentions this IIRC.)I do use a supplement on days I do strength training with the expectation that it might aid in muscle repair from my workout. Otherwise I just eat. Only recently have I even been paying much attention to the number. One advantage of MFP Premium is being able to set a hard goal in grams. I am not positive, but I think that goal won't increase with increased calorie allowance from exercise. It sure does if protein is set as a percent of calories!
I think that two things are necessary to get MFP not to increase the macro goals when calorie increase, though I admit I haven't tested carefully. Setting the values in grams is one part, the other part is the settings that say how to allocate exercise calories. In the app, the latter is in Settings/My Goals/Exercise Calories (in the Fitness Goals section). I have "Adjust my calorie goal" set on, and "Assign exercise calories to macronutrients" is set to "Custom percentage". I allocate all of my exercise calories to carbs: Since I don't pay any attention to my carb intake, don't care where it falls, that works for me. Turning the exercise calorie adjustment entirely off would also leave macro grams unchanged, but I don't want to do that for other reasons.
I don't generally use protein powder or bars because I don't have any difficulty getting my protein from food, and I like food best. (I'm set at 100g daily for 5'5" and a target weight around 125 - which I'm currently above 
. That's 0.8g/pound (rounded to a nice round number). For me, and a fair range of people, that 0.8 per pound body weight is roughly equivalent to 1g daily per pound of estimated lean body mass. I usually exceed 100g.) I admit I also find protein sating, which is another reason I prefer to get a relatively high intake. Evidence is thin that this level of protein intake causes kidney problems in healthy people, IMU.
But that's just me and my practice; and since I believe it, it's also what I recommend to others . . . but it's obviously still a decision we each need to make individually.
4 -
@mtaratoot congratulations on the lost weight. I need to do the same, go back within my maintenance range but find difficult to eat less.
In regards to protein, I was saying on the other forum that I aim to eat an average of 1g/kg/day and my percentage of muscle mass is really high. No need to think to much about it. Also excess protein is not retained by the body so it is no use.
@henridw2095 food prep is key. Certainly when I need to fuel due to exercise in between meals. Otherwise I fall into bread, cereals and cookies…2 -
@henridw2095 Thanks for the kind words, and I hear you about eating your feelings. I was actually surprised that I was able to lose about 1/2 lb while at BIL's for two weeks. I did bring a bunch of food to stay on track, but we ended up eating out often and I tend to not make the best choices when eating out
I think that we really need to take a lesson from those older than us and do our best to stay healthy and make good decisions about our lifestyle habits.
@Curvykinkycurls thank you for the words of encouragement. I'm sorry to hear your FIL is in the hospital, I hope he's able to return home soon. It's definitely a lot for one person to deal with. I wish my SIL had let us know what was going on sooner. We would have been happy to go down there and help them out for a while (we're both retired [for now]). Fortunately my BIL can afford to pay for the addition to our home since we wouldn't have been able to swing it. We can change the screened porch to an enclosed sun room so he has a bit of living room space to himself, but the extra bed and bath would be more than we could absorb - the plumbing will probably be the biggest cost.
@mtaratoot That storm you went through was pretty devastating. Sorry to hear your community suffered so.
@maya440 thanks for keeping things on topic. I'm reading through the discussion here about protein with interest, and I'd really like to hear what others do about some of the other nutrients that vegans (and some vegetarians) might have trouble getting - zinc, iron, vit. D and calcium especially.2 -
I am taking supplements for Iron, vit. D (winter only), zinc and calcium ! Not every day but regularly.0
-
I take a vegan menopause multivitamin which covers pretty much all bases, plus a vegan collagen. I haven't been to the Dr's for a check up in a long time, certainly not since going vegan a year ago. It would be interesting to find out if they could do a blood test showing levels, but pretty sure that would be a private clinic service, not the NHS in the UK. I would like to know where my cholesterol levels are too. I will have to look into how to find out.
What's the process in your country? Or wouldn't you bother unless you felt ill?0 -
I can do a check-up quite easily at my doctor's office.
The last one was pretty good except for iron. My cholesterol level is super low (the good one as well so I also added an omega 3 supplement).
I think omnivores have the same deficiencies (except calcium maybe) but they don't all look so carefully !1 -
Good day today.
I crave some sweet just there but don't want to eat anymore.
I had planned to prepare tomorrow's dinner. Pfu but the day was long. I need to find the energy. I know I will be satisfied afterwards.
Go go.0 -
I thought I'd share a little experience I had the last two days. It has nothing to do with plant-based eating, but it for sure has to do with weight management and how our brains approach the feedback we get from our scale.
My scale weight this morning was up 1.6 pounds from yesterday. Stepping back for context, it was down 1.8 pounds yesterday from the day before. I didn't believe yesterday's number. It was a very weird anomaly because I expected it to be UP from muscle repair from a strength training session. Go figure. Maybe it was glycogen? Because I had a carb craving yesterday and fed it. Even just looking at today, yesterday, and the day before, the number has dropped, but only 0.2 pounds. That's reasonable, and I don't even really believe THAT.
The weird part is that my trending weight is down 0.7 pounds over the two days, and I don't totally believe that either, but only because it incorporates the anomaly. It will level out in the coming days. I am down two pounds since last Wednesday by my weight trend, and I do actually believe that.
I am a big proponent of daily weighing, and I'm just as big a proponent of ignoring the actual number in favor of using a very basic statistical tool (averaging) to look at the trend
1 -
SparkSpringtime69 wrote: »@henridw2095 Thanks for the kind words, and I hear you about eating your feelings. I was actually surprised that I was able to lose about 1/2 lb while at BIL's for two weeks. I did bring a bunch of food to stay on track, but we ended up eating out often and I tend to not make the best choices when eating out I think that we really need to take a lesson from those older than us and do our best to stay healthy and make good decisions about our lifestyle habits.
@Curvykinkycurls thank you for the words of encouragement. I'm sorry to hear your FIL is in the hospital, I hope he's able to return home soon. It's definitely a lot for one person to deal with. I wish my SIL had let us know what was going on sooner. We would have been happy to go down there and help them out for a while (we're both retired [for now]). Fortunately my BIL can afford to pay for the addition to our home since we wouldn't have been able to swing it. We can change the screened porch to an enclosed sun room so he has a bit of living room space to himself, but the extra bed and bath would be more than we could absorb - the plumbing will probably be the biggest cost.
@mtaratoot That storm you went through was pretty devastating. Sorry to hear your community suffered so.
@maya440 thanks for keeping things on topic. I'm reading through the diosscussion here about protein with interest, and I'd really like to hear what others do about some of the other nutrients that vegans (and some vegetarians) might have trouble getting - zinc, iron, vit. D and calcium especially.
I ask for blood tests periodically for nutritional values that can be tested that way, like B-6, B-12, iron, D.
You didn't mention B-12, which surprises me - maybe you assumed we supplement it? I supplement B-12 even though occasional tests have suggested my levels are OK, because it's pretty cheap & safe . . . and it's essential nutritionally, but not present naturally in plant foods at all. (The B-12 in nutritional yeast is supplemental, not natural.)
I supplement calcium even though my intake is quite high (ovo-lacto veg). That's because I have osteoporosis and my specialist wants me to supplement that. (I suspect the osteoporosis is in part from anti-estrogen drugs I took as part of cancer treatment.) I supplement vitamin D because I live in the North, and also because the osteoporosis specialist said I should. My blood levels have been fine.
My blood levels of iron have been fine, and over-supplementing that is risky. (I'm in menopause, put there by chemotherapy 23 years ago. I need less iron than pre-menopause.) Iron can interfere with zinc absorption.
There have been times when I supplemented zinc, but spot-checking my intake suggested it's OK, so I stopped. Excess supplemental zinc can also have side effects.
Other supplements I take, some for questionable idiosyncratic reasons:
Turmeric
Vitamin K-2 (MK 7)
Magnesium citrate
Algae Omega-3
Creatine
I'm also experimenting with THC/CBN for sleep problems.
With respect to Vitamin D, my osteoporosis specialist was very strong that D-3 was preferred. I was not able to find a fully vegan/vegetarian D-3. I will use non-vegetarian supplements or medications when absolutely necessary, so am now using a D-3 liquid derived from lanolin . . . in theory, at least, the animal didn't die. If others have a better D-3 solution, I'm open to suggestions.
2 -
Sorry, I've been a bit checked out. Things are busy!
I get annual blood tests, including lipids and B12. Due to thyroidectomy, I have also frequently tested calcium and Vitamin D in the last year. I have complete lipid records since 2010 and am able to trace the effects of my diet in how my lipids look. I'm already excited for this year's results in the summer!
Supplements:
I take vit D3 (2x/week only) from Garden of Life, daily B12, calcium (but only started after my thyroidectomy, which screwed up my calcium/Vitamin D metabolism), and magnesium (also started after thyroidectomy). I find it hard to know if a supplement is "high quality".
Thank you for the sources on protein @AnnPT77 - I will take a look when I have time. I'm familiar with the recommendations but have not read any studies on it (and I'm not sure I will go that far, as long as my intake is well within what's safe and recommended for relatively healthy, active people).
0 -
@mtaratoot do you know the Happy Scale app ? it is really great, it does the weight trend for you and indeed you don't need to believe daily weights.0
-
@Maya440
I am familiar with it, but I don't use it. I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use. Two actually. One I use to track my weight, body fat, body water composition, and bone density. From fat percentage, I calculate total pounds of fat. On that sheet, I have a running ten-day average column, and once a week I do a seven-day average for a couple challenges here on MFP. My other spreadsheet is just for weight tracking. It uses a weighted moving average. It does that by looking at yesterday's calculation and making one change based on today's weight. Yesterday's number relied on the day before. There's a "Scale Factor" that I can change if I want to tweak how many days it "looks back." I have a Google Sheet version that I'm happy to share with anyone. I actually made a second one for people who only weigh once a week and still want the smoothing. I think the daily works best.
I have graphing features for these spreadsheets. This is what my data looks like since September 2020. I call that time "The Big Oops." It's when my weight went back up after successfully maintaining for a few years. It's bounced around since then, and even when it was up it was still in healthy range. Like the rest of us, I am a work in progress and always will be. I have a version of this graph that labels a few things like the two times I had COVID and lost weight, the time I went on a month long rafting trip and gained weight, and another time something happened that ended up in an unexpected rapid loss. That's the very low dip a year ago. The good news, for now at least, is I'm back in my ideal maintenance range. I guess I got serious again. We'll see if I can keep it up.
I also use an online tool called TrendWeight. If you look at 2 weeks, 4 weeks, or 3 months, it also gives a projected weight in the future. You can also look at 6 months, 1 year, all data, or you can look at custom dates. Here's my chart for the past three months:
So yeah, I probably am not going to use another app, especially since my spreadsheet has data going back years.0 -
@Curvykinkycurls regarding testing - I'm in the US and I ask for tests about once a year when going to doctor for annual wellness exam.
@AnnPT77 you're right, I did just assume every vegan knows they should supplement B12 - I probably shouldn't do that since there are sometimes people new to this group that are just starting out and may not know that
How do you spot-check zinc?? I looked up the D2/D3 difference and read that 2 comes from plants and 3 from animals. The article also said the D3 is a little more potent, probably why your doc wants you to use it.
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/vitamin-d2-vs-d3-which-should-i-take-for-bone-health
Last test I had (11/22) showed normal range for B-12 and Folate; high end of normal range for calcium; normal range for iron; and great lipid panel. My doctor said that I should just keep doing whatever it was that I was doing because she had not seen many patients my age (early 60s) with such great bloodwork! I did not get a magnesium, zinc or D test that time, so I definitely will be asking for those this year. I was also not 100% vegan then, so I want to go this year after 100% for a few months to see what differs.
@henridw2095 good for you for keeping past records. It's great to see how things change over the years so you can judge what's working well for you and what might not be.
I currently take B-12 a couple times a week and a calcium, magnesium, D supplement once a week (from late spring to early fall I take just a calcium/magnesium one since I get tons of sun then). I stopped taking the iron supplement since that last blood test was good and I don't want to overdo the iron. Since I'm working hard to avoid cheese now, I'll probably up my B-12 to every other day until my next test.0 -
@SparkSpringtime69, when I said "spot check zinc", what I did was take a couple of typical days of my eating, and look up the zinc content. That suggested I was doing OK on zinc. (I've done it for other nutrients at times, too.) As a second more rough check, sometimes I'll do a web search for "foods high in zinc" (or whatever nutrient I'm concerned about) to see whether I have some good sources in regular rotation.
A very mainstream but IMO helpful source for nutrient information is this, from US National Institutes of Health:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/list-all/
When they're available there, I particularly like the "Health Professional" versions of the fact sheets. I don't find them too technical to understand, and they have more info/links to supporting research. One component of those (or the "Consumers" ones) is information about which foods are high in the nutrient.0 -
Good morning friends !
Last day of the week. I hope you're doing OK. I don't have much planned for this week-end except a run with friends on Saturday
I'm nowhere near where I'd like to be in terms of my diet and weight, but I'm quite happy with my sporting performance. I'm starting to get a good feel for swimming again. My first outing on the bike was satisfactory. There's still the running to do, but I'm confident!
So my objective for the next days is to eat better.1 -
@Maya440 eating (even) better sounds like a great plan, although I doubt you actually eat poorly.
I have Saturday completely off, it feels like a vacation 😂. On Sunday I will be working a few hours. Most likely I‘ll head to the gym on Saturday, but otherwise do very little (aside from cleaning the piggies). I might meal prep a bit. The temps are warm, so I might walk run (wun) outside this weekend. I could probably run 5k in one go, but might not do that yet to give my body a chance to adapt to running. I started walk/runs one month ago, after several years of not running at all. So it will be 3x10 min at slow pace, with 2-3 min walking in between.
My husband started started running again too, he didn’t get inspired by my weight loss or the weight training, but couldn’t resist the running. It’s possible we’ll do a big Chicago 8k race in March (likely with some walks in between, since I don’t want to run further than 5k this year). I think one of the biggest mistakes new runners make is to go too fast or too far, too soon. I have done that before, not this time around.1 -
I love the fact that you go slowly with the running and respect your body.
Most people are unable to do so.
You're right. I don't eat poorly. My meals are correct. I just eat too much treats (and a bit too much calories as well). I know I can do better but I need to have a "why" and now in the middle of winter my "why" is not that obvious
1 -
@Maya440
It's kind of funny - now that I'm retired, I like to stay home on weekends and do chores. I "get out" on weekdays when many people are stuck at work. For hiking, the trails are less crowded. For grocery shopping - the aisles are generally less crowded. One exception is paddling. I have to do that when others are available. I'm looking forward to getting back on the water. I had 69 days on the water last year, which was well short of my overly ambitious goal of 100 days.
Tomorrow though, I have to get up shortly after 05:00 and drive through the dark over the Coast Range to go to the hands-on portion for a big first aid class. I have to re-certify every two years. It's a requirement for one of my volunteer "jobs."
2
