Why am I so turned off by an educated woman?
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Busy day here, so I skimmed over the other responses. I'll answer it based on my experiences with men. You a like 90% of men out there and want to wear the pants in the relationship in most regards.
Most men want to be the bread winner/alpha/etc in all aspects of the relationship. They feel that they should earn more money, that they should have the more respected job, that they should have the better education and that they should hold higher civic positions within the community. If they are with a woman that outshines them in any of these areas, the relationship has the potential to struggle (if it even gets off the ground).
This, exactly. Mike's view is completely consistent of that held by most men I've encountered. I have a BS in Engineering and a JD, and it's proven to be a great way to turn guys off who previously seemed interested... :grumble:
So true ... I have a BA and JD ... I am bubbly and amazing .. DAMMIT!0 -
Busy day here, so I skimmed over the other responses. I'll answer it based on my experiences with men. You a like 90% of men out there and want to wear the pants in the relationship in most regards.
Most men want to be the bread winner/alpha/etc in all aspects of the relationship. They feel that they should earn more money, that they should have the more respected job, that they should have the better education and that they should hold higher civic positions within the community. If they are with a woman that outshines them in any of these areas, the relationship has the potential to struggle (if it even gets off the ground).
This, exactly. Mike's view is completely consistent of that held by most men I've encountered. I have a BS in Engineering and a JD, and it's proven to be a great way to turn guys off who previously seemed interested... :grumble:
So true ... I have a BA and JD ... I am bubbly and amazing .. DAMMIT!
To me, the J.D. crowd is MUCH different from the PhD. crowd.
Most lawyers I've met are well adjusted, social people. A lot of the PhD's I've met are more sarcastic, self loathing, and have a "cooler than thou" attitude.0 -
I've gotta say... I've met very few guys that were unimpressed with my educational goals. I don't know if it's because my intended career seems exciting, or if I just manage to come across as spunky and interesting despite seeking knowledge and education, if it's the area I live or if the guys that would be turned off/threatened aren't even on my radar but... I mean... let it go. If a guy doesn't like you because you are smart what's the point in getting riled up about it. If anything be grateful that you aren't going to be stuck with a guy that is going to try and keep you like a slave.0
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It still all comes back to what we are and are not attracted to. These are personal preferences.. so Mike and Poncho are certainly allowed to feel the way they feel, as long as they don't drift into the territory of saying there is anything wrong with educated women.
As I work in a university and have done so for quite some time, I will say that a good number of female academics (particularly in the Arts and Theoretical Sciences) are just like male academics - obsessed with their academic interests to the point of being obnoxious, somewhat socially oblivious and/or straight up awkward, very concerned with rank, status and proving themselves, and value intelligence far over physical appearance and/or taking care of themselves. This is certainly less the case with younger ones..but it does take a certain type of person to dedicate that amount of time, effort and money to the pursuit of knowledge..and sometimes not even knowing if there is a job to be had at the end of it!
I have my own biases too. I honestly don't think I could date anyone with less than a bachelors again. I value being able to share the university experience and everything that goes with that with my partner. It is not specifically about intelligence.
I do however adore someone with sharper wit, a more intelligent mind and better communication skills than myself. As I don't consider myself particularly low in any of these areas, the bar is set pretty high. I'm not attracted to money specifically, but I do think I have a little thing for power or men in higher level positions, particularly if they happen to look good in a suit. Yup.. I do enjoy lawyers, certain academics, those in business, politicians etc..
I like RCMP members too (this is Royal Canadian Mounted Police - but you need to have a degree to get in and it is more elite than an average city police force)!0 -
Whatever it is Mike, you need to get used to it because the trend over the last decade has been more women (US stats here dont know worldwide) getting advanced degrees in comparison to men. Currently about 60% of all grad school students are women compared to 40 for men and by 2017 if the current trend continues that will be closer to 70-30.
As stated, i like educated women with the exception of those who have no real world life experience rather they are all theory and education. Unfortunately I have dated a lot more strippers (literally and figuratively) then lawyers and doctors. I will say lawyer, doctor or stripper all women Ive dated have been a bit crazy!!0 -
Self loathing and having cooler than thou attitude is an interesting combination!!!!0
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It still all comes back to what we are and are not attracted to. These are personal preferences.. so Mike and Poncho are certainly allowed to feel the way they feel, as long as they don't drift into the territory of saying there is anything wrong with educated women.
As I work in a university and have done so for quite some time, I will say that a good number of female academics (particularly in the Arts and Theoretical Sciences) are just like male academics - obsessed with their academic interests to the point of being obnoxious, somewhat socially oblivious and/or straight up awkward, very concerned with rank, status and proving themselves, and value intelligence far over physical appearance and/or taking care of themselves. This is certainly less the case with younger ones..but it does take a certain type of person to dedicate that amount of time, effort and money to the pursuit of knowledge..and sometimes not even knowing if there is a job to be had at the end of it!
I have my own biases too. I honestly don't think I could date anyone with less than a bachelors again. I value being able to share the university experience and everything that goes with that with my partner. It is not specifically about intelligence.
I do however adore someone with sharper wit, a more intelligent mind and better communication skills than myself. As I don't consider myself particularly low in any of these areas, the bar is set pretty high. I'm not attracted to money specifically, but I do think I have a little thing for power or men in higher level positions, particularly if they happen to look good in a suit. Yup.. I do enjoy lawyers, certain academics, those in business, politicians etc..
I like RCMP members too (this is Royal Canadian Mounted Police - but you need to have a degree to get in and it is more elite than an average city police force)!
@smallerbrides: I did read your post, it took me a long time, not because it wasnt thought provoking and stimulating, rather it is because the boobie cleavage pic!!
I have no point in this message other than to say thank you for the pic, dont know if it is for boobie friday or not but I like it and encourage all the rest of the ladies to please follow suit with a boobie friday pic of some sort...in fact I would recommend a thread dedicated to those pics be started!0 -
Lol....we can't tell you what your issues are.
What if I say please?
Please psycho-analyze me
LOL I'm suprised some of the other ladies aren't here with bells on to have this chance....
Now you know I adore you but I honestly think you are a male who needs to feel totally dominant in a relationship. Since she has a higher degree then you , you then lose part of that hand. She will probably make more money than you as well which will cause futher issue for you. You have said more than once that you want to be the provider and source of support. If she has a masters then she doesn't need you to provide for her or support her.
On a side note stay away from people with psychology degrees most of the females I know with one are bat **** crazy and not in a good way
I agree with what a lot of people said here along these lines, particular this post about psychology degrees (my brother has a PhD in psychology too
).
The one thing I will disagree with everyone:
I don't believe a PhD in Psychology will mean that she will make more money than someone with a bachelor's degree in Engineering. Most people with academic degrees and careers (like myself) probably earn less than people with bachelor's degrees in other fields like engineering. Plus, they could have heaps of student loans, especially if they did a PhD in a discipline like the humanities (I'm not sure about psychology) in which they had to fully pay their own way. I'm in the sciences and nobody would (or should) do a PhD in sciences unless they have full financial support from the university or a grant.
So... if it's the idea of her having higher earning potential that's turning you off, Mike, you might be off base there and you could be the one making more. If it's simply that she has a higher degree than you, perhaps consider how much harder it is to get into engineering in the first place and what a demanding subject that would have been to study, while psychology tends to be an easier path that people opt for when engineering and hard sciences seems to tough. (That's not to insult anyone here who has studied psychology because it was their passion, but just because I started off university with loads of friends in the sciences who switched to psychology after one year because it was easier.)0 -
To me, the J.D. crowd is MUCH different from the PhD. crowd.
Most lawyers I've met are well adjusted, social people. A lot of the PhD's I've met are more sarcastic, self loathing, and have a "cooler than thou" attitude.
You're just trolling now. I mean, come on...
Next up: Jewish people (most are money grubbing)... Then we can do Canadians (overly nice, but a bit boring)... Southerners (racist white trash)... Accountants (Boring).... Cat lovers (lonely, desperate women)...
--P0 -
I'm confused how I can be overly nice and have a cooler than thou attitude at the same time... something to consider while I'm alone and feeling desperate with all my cats.To me, the J.D. crowd is MUCH different from the PhD. crowd.
Most lawyers I've met are well adjusted, social people. A lot of the PhD's I've met are more sarcastic, self loathing, and have a "cooler than thou" attitude.
You're just trolling now. I mean, come on...
Next up: Jewish people (most are money grubbing)... Then we can do Canadians (overly nice, but a bit boring)... Southerners (racist white trash)... Accountants (Boring).... Cat lovers (lonely, desperate women)...
--P 0 -
@smallerbrides: I did read your post, it took me a long time, not because it wasnt thought provoking and stimulating, rather it is because the boobie cleavage pic!!
I have no point in this message other than to say thank you for the pic, dont know if it is for boobie friday or not but I like it and encourage all the rest of the ladies to please follow suit with a boobie friday pic of some sort...in fact I would recommend a thread dedicated to those pics be started!
Brought to you by boobie Friday!
MFP seems to have brought out my closet exhibitionist..more than my inner athlete..oops! 0 -
Here's the story, I'm jumping back into the online dating world and starting to send/receive a bunch of e-mails. I'm going back and forth with this local girl, Pamela, and the e-mails are flowing and things seem to be going good. She's pretty, funny, and we seem to have a lot in common. We both enjoy to working out, reality television, Indian food, etc etc. Perfect, right?
Now I'll admit, I never really took the time to read her profile until I sent 2-3 e-mails. During the course of the e-mails, she told me just graduated with her doctorate in Psychology. Most people would be impressed, but for some reason I just got turned off. In her defense, I will say she seems to be very bubbly and feminine, which is a must!
Why was my immediate reaction to be so turned off initially when she told me? Now, I have a undergraduate degree in engineering and a good paying job, so I consider myself fairly bright.. why am I turned off by an educated woman? Do I feel that I'll lose my "hand" in the relationship if she has more impressive educational credentials than me?
I honestly think you are stereotyping all "educated" women into the same basket. I think you need to meet Pamela and actually get to know her (the real her, not the her that you've created in your head) and give the girl a chance. Because if it's like the "messy" thing in another thread (everything else is great, but that is the thing that's holding you back) you are giving advice that you can't take yourself. I know you can't change her degrees or career path but she may not be as "boring" as you are assuming she is...0 -
I'm confused how I can be overly nice and have a cooler than thou attitude at the same time... something to consider while I'm alone and feeling desperate with all my cats.
Oooh ooh..it's a game! Okay..hmm.... she's a PhD from Canada with two cats... in the drawing room with the candlestick!!?0 -
As a woman with a very successful career, this is a very common issue I face when dating. I actually took my profession off my online profile and try not to discuss it with guys until after we meet. Most female lawyers I know are definitely the "hilary Clinton" type so I do understand why men would jump to that conclusion. I'm just not like that at all so I'd rather discuss other stuff first so maybe if he gets to know the "real" me, then the career thing won't be as big of an obstacle. Unfortunately, I can't help it that I will make more money than 90% of the men I meet so if a guy want to be the breadwinner, I just can't overcome that one.
I would say that if she seems great in all other respects, you might want to keep an open mind and at least go on a date before you decide that her degree is a problem. You'll know pretty fast when you're face to face if she's one of the pretentious ones. What have you got to lose?0 -
I'm confused how I can be overly nice and have a cooler than thou attitude at the same time... something to consider while I'm alone and feeling desperate with all my cats.
Oooh ooh..it's a game! Okay..hmm.... she's a PhD from Canada with two cats... in the drawing room with the candlestick!!?
Nah its got to be the study with poison, more educated approach!!0 -
Close! LOL! I had two cats, but none right now - so I'm a cat lover. My BF has two cats, so I'm not looking to get more in case things work out. Two is plenty. More would be graduating from cat lover to crazy cat lady (although possibly part of my retirement plan if I'm still single). :bigsmile:I'm confused how I can be overly nice and have a cooler than thou attitude at the same time... something to consider while I'm alone and feeling desperate with all my cats.
Oooh ooh..it's a game! Okay..hmm.... she's a PhD from Canada with two cats... in the drawing room with the candlestick!!?
I think Prahasaurus' point was dead on about making such generalizations about people based on one thing about them, which was my point really. My degree does not define me. I don't shove it in people's faces, it was necessary for me to pursue the career I have now.
I am the college professor of Mike's comparisons. I might not be the Xbox360, but it's hardly mental chess for every conversation I have with my BF. People who act like that are trying to prove something - they are insecure about their intelligence and need to feel superior to others. At the end of a stressful day at work, I don't seek intellectual conversation - I want to joke around, cuddle and watch brainless TV or have fun together doing other stuff that doesn't require conversation.
I see people as being the sum of their intelligence, their education and their life experiences, and everyone is different. We can't put people neatly into a little box. It limits us to make assumptions like that!
My BF has a masters degree and I think sometimes he does feel uncomfortable about me having a higher degree (he will throw it in my face as a joke when I do something stupid), but he can speak three languages, which impresses me. I can respect people for things they know or what they have done that is different from me as much as I can respect people who have followed the same path as me.0 -
Here's the story, I'm jumping back into the online dating world and starting to send/receive a bunch of e-mails. I'm going back and forth with this local girl, Pamela, and the e-mails are flowing and things seem to be going good. She's pretty, funny, and we seem to have a lot in common. We both enjoy to working out, reality television, Indian food, etc etc. Perfect, right?
Now I'll admit, I never really took the time to read her profile until I sent 2-3 e-mails. During the course of the e-mails, she told me just graduated with her doctorate in Psychology. Most people would be impressed, but for some reason I just got turned off. In her defense, I will say she seems to be very bubbly and feminine, which is a must!
Why was my immediate reaction to be so turned off initially when she told me? Now, I have a undergraduate degree in engineering and a good paying job, so I consider myself fairly bright.. why am I turned off by an educated woman? Do I feel that I'll lose my "hand" in the relationship if she has more impressive educational credentials than me?
I honestly think you are stereotyping all "educated" women into the same basket. I think you need to meet Pamela and actually get to know her (the real her, not the her that you've created in your head) and give the girl a chance. Because if it's like the "messy" thing in another thread (everything else is great, but that is the thing that's holding you back) you are giving advice that you can't take yourself. I know you can't change her degrees or career path but she may not be as "boring" as you are assuming she is...
Nice answer0 -
When you're going out in fun places, you are going to meet fun people/women. So it's always time to talk about jobs/education if you click and have fun together. Now, I admit things can be a bit different for online dating...
As far as degrees go, my personal belief is that people can be intelligent in a variety of ways - which means in a non-academic way too (so it's neither a turn off or turn on for me), but I'm definitely looking for intelligence or passion for something in the girls I hang out with. The people you meet will always be better than you at something (at least one thing!!!).
In conclusion, the intelligent women I meet are neither unfunny nor do I feel particularly inferior to them, so I don't really mind.0 -
I'm confused how I can be overly nice and have a cooler than thou attitude at the same time... something to consider while I'm alone and feeling desperate with all my cats.
Oooh ooh..it's a game! Okay..hmm.... she's a PhD from Canada with two cats... in the drawing room with the candlestick!!?
This comment made my day! :laugh:0 -
Was it the education level or the field?
It was the level of education. I would think twice if it was a B.A. in Psychology.
I'm some what the same way.... and my reason for being turned off has nothing to do with the field of education or level... it's the fact that they seem to have to let you know how educated they are every chance they get.
This has been my experience as well. Even though everyone touched on good points, this is a MAJOR one.
This has also been my experience.0 -
I am the college professor of Mike's comparisons. I might not be the Xbox360, but it's hardly mental chess for every conversation I have with my BF. People who act like that are trying to prove something - they are insecure about their intelligence and need to feel superior to others. At the end of a stressful day at work, I don't seek intellectual conversation - I want to joke around, cuddle and watch brainless TV or have fun together doing other stuff that doesn't require conversation.
Mellie,
I could deal with that. That would be fine.
It's always been my experience that the PhD. crowd (ESPECIALLY the one who deem themselves "underemployed") are always trying to prove something.0 -
Mellie,
I could deal with that. That would be fine.
It's always been my experience that the PhD. crowd (ESPECIALLY the one who deem themselves "underemployed") are always trying to prove something.
Well that's it then! Go out on a date, see how it goes and try not to let your concerns about this colour the date. You should be more concerned with measuring her thigh gap and seeing how willing she is to get her boobs freshened up anyway, right? (I love you babe.. but I could NOT resist!) 0 -
Mellie,
I could deal with that. That would be fine.
It's always been my experience that the PhD. crowd (ESPECIALLY the one who deem themselves "underemployed") are always trying to prove something.
Well that's it then! Go out on a date, see how it goes and try not to let your concerns about this colour the date. You should be more concerned with measuring her thigh gap and seeing how willing she is to get her boobs freshened up anyway, right? (I love you babe.. but I could NOT resist!)
That's the game plan. As long as she doesn't "poof" on be beforehand. lol0 -
Mellie,
I could deal with that. That would be fine.
It's always been my experience that the PhD. crowd (ESPECIALLY the one who deem themselves "underemployed") are always trying to prove something.
Well that's it then! Go out on a date, see how it goes and try not to let your concerns about this colour the date. You should be more concerned with measuring her thigh gap and seeing how willing she is to get her boobs freshened up anyway, right? (I love you babe.. but I could NOT resist!)
That's the game plan. As long as she doesn't "poof" on be beforehand. lol
She could poof. You need to be meeting more hot gym gals who have just Bachelor's degrees. Post up at the cool gyms in Lauderdale and do your thing.0 -
Mike, if that was really it, then you wouldn't have been turned off by her degree. You said yourself she wasShe's pretty, funny, and we seem to have a lot in common. We both enjoy to working out, reality television, Indian food, etc etc. Perfect, right?
Clearly you didn't feel like you were playing mental chess with her before. She didn't give off that vibe. Using that as an excuse now feels an awful lot like backpedaling.
Funny, but unfortunately true. I am always MYSELF on dates. I have no filter and I do not put up fronts to make a guy like me. I've gone out with a couple guys 3-4 times and had a FABULOUS time... only to see their eyes glaze over after finding out what I do and what degrees I have (and the date ends quickly after that) . It's like they don't believe the fun we've had is real. Someone with my career and eduction could not POSSIBLY be that fun girl they've been getting to know.
It happens so often that it's actually #2 in my "bag of tricks" for running off a guy who is nice but I don't see us together. There's only been once in the last 3 years and 40 something dates that I've had to use trick #3, because trick #2 is just THAT effective.
As to why you feel that way... I dunno... maybe b/c you're a normal guy??? Lol! Seriously, if you've enjoyed the interactions with her up til now, I hope you follow through with giving her a chance. There are many highly educated people (men AND women) who have problem finding matches because others of equivalent education are pompous and boring, and those people who are fun and normal and would actually be a good match can't get over the education.0 -
Its funny when you know just from the title who started the thread....0
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Its funny when you know just from the title who started the thread....
Hahahaaha!0 -
so wait, if someone likes u they hafta be stupid? that's too bad cuz i thought u were cute!0
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so wait, if someone likes u they hafta be stupid? that's too bad cuz i thought u were cute!
You can still like me, you're cute too! I take it all back 0 -
i've said it before, mike reminds me a lot of Mr Right out of my "why does he do that" book on abusive men.......
Mr Right, is Mr ALWAYS Right. he keeps you DOWN to make sure he stays up..... my ex was three types of an abuser and Mr Right was one of them... it's nearly impossible to live with Mr Right unless you totally give yourself up in the process and not a lot of women will do that.....I'm going to answer to the best of my ability, but please keep in mind my answer is based on the character you have portrayed here. Depending on how exaggerated that character is, is how accurate my response will be.
You like to be in control in a relationship. You want the earning power, you want the decision making power, you want to be needed financially and physically. Educated women are less likely to fall into that field of attraction (less likely, which is why there is an initial turn off, but I'm sure you could find exceptions). You've said you want the girl to never be a stay at home wife/mom, but you want to make more money than her. You said you like crazy women, but not THAT crazy. You are authoritarian, you want to have control and you don't want someone that's going to challenge you and rock the boat.
You might think it's cute when the girl gets snippy/pouty/whiny/jealous whatever constitutes crazy in your mind, but you want the ability to reel it in. You can threaten to cancel her credit cards, stop paying for her tanning or god forbid LEAVE HER because then where would she be without you? She would be worthless without you. So you have control.
You generally don't find this kind of insecurity in women who know they can take care of themselves. There are women like this at every perspective in life but they tend to exist on the higher education level. Will mentioned that he doesn't like women with PHD in impractical fields - but I imagine that's the kind that wouldn't turn you off. You aren't threatened by a girl who has a degree in underwater basket weaving, in fact, it's adorable! But hopefully she understands that what you say goes or those student loans will never get paid off.
I think a lot of the people on this thread are reading this and waiting for me to bash you and whatnot - but I'm not going to. This is what you want from a relationship, and there are girls who want this from a relationship. Just watch Real Housewives of whatever. If that's what makes you happy go for it. When our culture is ready to leave ideals like this behind they'll vanish on their own. Anyway, that's just my take on it. I don't know how on point it is because I can't pretend to know you, I only know the representation of you that you've bothered to share.0
