Why am I so turned off by an educated woman?
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i've said it before, mike reminds me a lot of Mr Right out of my "why does he do that" book on abusive men.......
Mr Right, is Mr ALWAYS Right. he keeps you DOWN to make sure he stays up..... my ex was three types of an abuser and Mr Right was one of them... it's nearly impossible to live with Mr Right unless you totally give yourself up in the process and not a lot of women will do that.....
I never fancied myself an abusive man. I think I'm looking for a beta female. I really desire that personality type. Just like how some women loath short men, I don't care for alpha females.
It's just about preferences.0 -
i find this funny too, because i'm educated. and while i choose not to toot my own horn, i'm pretty smart. and my ex was always telling me to go strip or work at the place like the bunny ranch..... LOL i'm pretty sure he never saw me as hillary clinton......Hilarious that "uneducated woman" = stripper, while "educated woman" = Hillary Clinton.
There are some serious psychological issues in this thread... :-)
--P0 -
you might not fancy yourself that way but no abusive man does. Mr Right has to be right. he has to be dominate, he has to be in charge. HE is the authority in the house because HE IS RIGHT. not because he yells, or uses his fist, but because she caves and caters and he points out time and after time how she is wrong and he is right.
trust me, i'm not alpha, in any sense of the word. but you should have seen how i crumbled and changed from having opinions on things to not having a single one because HE WAS ALWAYS right....... and of course he didn't see anything wrong with that. in his eyes he was "saving me from myself." like i NEEDED him to get by or make choices.
i wanted diamond stud earrings one year for Christmas. you know what i got??? i got porn. a couple videos of that bella chick. yup. he told me that " all i was going to do was lose the earrings so he wasn't going to waste his money on them." so, i got porn for Christmas. i don't watch porn. never have. i have zero interest in it. but he had to be right.
after we separated there was an incident involving a hand gun, my bishop at church ended up involved ( due to my ex contacting him) and my ex told my bishop that " he had every right to defend himself with a loaded weapon if he choose. " in his eyes he did nothing wrong. he was right and he told me and my bishop that i had NO RIGHT to be afraid. that i was defaming HIS character by saying he scared me when he broke into my house at night and sat down next to me, with a loaded hand gun, while i slept. Mr. Right.
I never fancied myself an abusive man. I think I'm looking for a beta female. I really desire that personality type. Just like how some women loath short men, I don't care for alpha females.
It's just about preferences.0 -
she told me just graduated with her doctorate in Psychology... In her defense, I will say she seems to be very bubbly and feminine, which is a must!
why am I turned off by an educated woman?
You seem to think it's unfeminine0 -
i've said it before, mike reminds me a lot of Mr Right out of my "why does he do that" book on abusive men.......
This...and your subsequent messages regarding your ex and his similarities to Mike...projecting much?
It is one thing to disagree or express disgust with an opinion....it is another to label someone abusive based on what they write on here. Not cool.0 -
I do think labeling the man abusive is a huge stretch.
I don't think there's much of anything you can deduce from this thread, other than Mike's inconsistency in his preferences. Clearly he's all over the place. He doesn't like smart women, unless they are lawyers, for example. Or is it "Alpha" women that bother him? No doubt an Alpha woman with a PhD, blonde hair, huge breasts, and a nice tan will be another exception to these rules...
I genuinely am surprised that men seem to prefer less intelligent women. More surprised some here are open about it. And I guess that's admirable (their openness). Can't really understand why anyone woud want to be in a relationship with someone who is not intelligent. For me, it's like a preference for unattractive people.
Of course, I'm such a big ego that I usually think I'm the smartest person in the room. And if I met a clever psychologist, I'd view it as a chance to learn more about psychology. A dinner discussing Freud versus Jung sounds like a fantastic time.
But to each his own.
--P0 -
Sorry I'd love to dive into this more but I have a busy day.
When I see an highly educated women I think Hillary Clinton, can't make a mistake, has to be proper, projecting an image. When I see a stripper, I think cruising down a country road in a red convertible with some Guns and Roses blasting on the radio laughing our *kitten* of and having a blast. I know this is a shoddy response, but to me the highly educated women isn't much fun and no fun is a turn off.
you seem like a nice guy but it's posts like these that remind me why i moved from places where being educated was anomaly and being well-educated was even worse.
i ran into this type of thinking lots of times, and it was always from people who either didnt finish high school, barely finished or did a few years in (sorry to say) what i would consider a non academically challenging college but felt the need to remind me either how down to the earth i wasnt or how it's more important to have common sense than book smarts, etc. then i moved to bigger cities where almost everyone else is brilliant and curious and willing to learn and always interested in having lively discussions even if it's about things they dont know about.
before i moved, i did have to remind a few of my ex bf's that i had formal education but that was because they were saying dumb *kitten* and was trying to say it was fact. i agree with praha that someone being intimidated by a potential partner's education is more a function of that person's insecurities.
in my experience "i can't have fun with you because you're too educated" is usually code for "i can't present my faulty knowledge about certain things as facts because you've studied those things and will remind me how ignorant i am". of course it's not fun when your gf with the physics degree tells you you're wrong and why you're wrong when you argue that the big bang theory involves 2 large bodies colliding together and the universe being created from that :laugh:0 -
I genuinely am surprised that men seem to prefer less intelligent women. More surprised some here are open about it. And I guess that's admirable (their openness). Can't really understand why anyone woud want to be in a relationship with someone who is not intelligent. For me, it's like a preference for unattractive people.
Of course, I'm such a big ego that I usually think I'm the smartest person in the room. And if I met a clever psychologist, I'd view it as a chance to learn more about psychology. A dinner discussing Freud versus Jung sounds like a fantastic time.
But to each his own.
--P
Agreeing wholeheartedly with the first and last paragraphs quoted (as well as the paragraphs omitted), and thinking it's a shame I haven't any contracts in the Czech Republic any time soon - I may not be a psychologist by profession, but Freud v. Jung is fascinating!0 -
And there I was thinking a trip to CERN would be all fun and games :-D. A great response, and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Poncho's post also made me wonder if many people (maybe many men...?) fail to differentiate between a professional persona and what someone is like when they're not 'on parade'. Or perhaps that shift is more extreme in those with jobs that require the projection of immense confidence and competence, so it's harder to imagine. Some of the most powerful, competent, highly-educated women I know are profoundly, wonderfully silly or total wild girls when they're not at work or on show!
Sorry I'd love to dive into this more but I have a busy day.
When I see an highly educated women I think Hillary Clinton, can't make a mistake, has to be proper, projecting an image. When I see a stripper, I think cruising down a country road in a red convertible with some Guns and Roses blasting on the radio laughing our *kitten* of and having a blast. I know this is a shoddy response, but to me the highly educated women isn't much fun and no fun is a turn off.
you seem like a nice guy but it's posts like these that remind me why i moved from places where being educated was anomaly and being well-educated was even worse.
i ran into this type of thinking lots of times, and it was always from people who either didnt finish high school, barely finished or did a few years in (sorry to say) what i would consider a non academically challenging college but felt the need to remind me either how down to the earth i wasnt or how it's more important to have common sense than book smarts, etc
before i moved, i did have to remind a few of my ex bf's that i had formal education but that was because they were saying dumb *kitten* and was trying to say it was fact. i agree with praha that someone being intimidated by a potential partner's education is more a function of that person's insecurities.
in my experience "i can't have fun with you because you're too educated" is usually code for "i can't present my faulty knowledge about certain things as facts because you've studied those things and will remind me how ignorant i am". of course it's not fun when your gf with the physics degree tells you you're wrong and why you're wrong when you argue that the big bang theory involves 2 large bodies colliding together and the universe being created from that :laugh:0 -
so wait, if someone likes u they hafta be stupid? that's too bad cuz i thought u were cute!
You will quickly learn that Mike has a lot of demands: thin, pretty, always tab, big breasts, thigh gap.
Okay, I'm teasing a little bit it is a shame. Mike, you actually are quite good looking and I guarantee if you dropped your strict rules you would get a ton of girls!0 -
i've said it before, mike reminds me a lot of Mr Right out of my "why does he do that" book on abusive men.......
This...and your subsequent messages regarding your ex and his similarities to Mike...projecting much?
It is one thing to disagree or express disgust with an opinion....it is another to label someone abusive based on what they write on here. Not cool.I do think labeling the man abusive is a huge stretch.
I can understand the note against labeling people negatively.... at the same time...
I'm surprised neither of you appear to think it helpful for Mike to see that his portrayed persona fits one of the profiles out of a book about abusive men. If I were Mike, I would want to know this, as unintentionally giving women this vibe could very well be the reason I'm still single.
I'm not saying Mike is abusive, of course, since I don't know the guy IRL. But his MFP persona is very much like the military men I work with (that I always thought was how ALL men acted until the members of this group opened my eyes). And guess what? A good portion of the men I work with are very controlling, entitled, and are verbally abusive (if not physically- I've not witnessed the physical abuse, but I've watched these men with their wives, ugh!) .
The fact that my worldview is tilted towards most men thinking the way Mike writes is a huge part of what motivated me to come to peace with the possibility I might never remarry.
"Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" is a very good book... and unfortunately, several of the more prominent posters are described in its pages (angry, controlling abusive men and ALSO the descriptions of women who fall into these relationships).
Again... If I were giving off that (or any other very negative) vibe, I would want someone to tell me.0 -
I think everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill here.
There's nothing wrong with a man who wants to be in control, be the provider, and be the "alpha" one in the relationship. In fact, I've heard complaints on here about men who *don't* take control and who *don't* want to be the provider. I'm still baffled on how anyone could take this as being abusive. It almost seems like your damned if you do and you're damned if you don't type of situation.
The more I think about it, the education thing is more of an attitude. I have nothing against against female lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. However, I do have a problem if you lead with your educational foot and think you are superior solely because of your education. I also have issues with women who always feel they need to prove something (I deal with this a lot at work). I was in a meeting one day with our counsel to discuss how to proceed with a case. I threw out a suggestion, she took offense. She then threw in my face that she graduated top of her class at U. of Miami Law School and asked me what I've accomplished on the academic side. Completely uncalled for and I've ONLY experienced this with female co-workers. I'm sure men do it too, but it hasn't happened to me.0 -
^Good post Mike. I'm going to break it down into segments.There's nothing wrong with a man who wants to be in control, be the provider, and be the "alpha" one in the relationship. In fact, I've heard complaints on here about men who *don't* take control and who *don't* want to be the provider. I'm still baffled on how anyone could take this as being abusive. It almost seems like your damned if you do and you're damned if you don't type of situation.
"Alpha" males are most in demand. I also come from the worldview that men adopt characteristics based on observation about what is successful with women. Over the course of history, the "alpha" male has proven to be most demand. It is about being the "alpha" male. You can't just act an "alpha" male, it is about your inner game and your overall persona.The more I think about it, the education thing is more of an attitude. I have nothing against against female lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. However, I do have a problem if you lead with your educational foot and think you are superior solely because of your education. I also have issues with women who always feel they need to prove something (I deal with this a lot at work). I was in a meeting one day with our counsel to discuss how to proceed with a case. I threw out a suggestion, she took offense. She then threw in my face that she graduated top of her class at U. of Miami Law School and asked me what I've accomplished on the academic side. Completely uncalled for and I've ONLY experienced this with female co-workers. I'm sure men do it too, but it hasn't happened to me.
The U of Miami Law School example is something that I think is being taken slightly out of context. That was a non romantic situation. With that said, I see your point. Her asking you about academic accomplishments was uncalled for, especially since I assume that it had been years since you both graduated. I also believe that there is a tendency to hype academic achievements early in one's career too. Recent graduates tend to be more insecure and looking to establish their place.
In social settings, I would much rather talk about how I spend my free time than talk about work or my past academic achievements. I'd also rather discuss ideas and concepts.0 -
i said he REMINDS me of the description from the book. i didn't label him.
he wants someone submissive. HE said that, not i.......
i was just using my examples to illustrate that when you want someone to submit to you, you rarely think you are wrong, you think you are right.
i don't know mike from adam. he could be a totally cool guy. but, his needing a woman that will cater and bend and submit, and is in HIS word, "beta." it has struck a cord. he has said other things as well and made me think this.
and no, i'm not projecting. like i said, i was using them as examples. i didn't say mike did those things.i've said it before, mike reminds me a lot of Mr Right out of my "why does he do that" book on abusive men.......
This...and your subsequent messages regarding your ex and his similarities to Mike...projecting much?
It is one thing to disagree or express disgust with an opinion....it is another to label someone abusive based on what they write on here. Not cool.0 -
Yeah, I agree with this. But eh, what do you expect... Apparently, you can only be one way or another and it has to be one of the extremes.There's nothing wrong with a man who wants to be in control, be the provider, and be the "alpha" one in the relationship. In fact, I've heard complaints on here about men who *don't* take control and who *don't* want to be the provider. I'm still baffled on how anyone could take this as being abusive. It almost seems like your damned if you do and you're damned if you don't type of situation.
I've seen that in the past when women felt they constantly had to prove themselves and not even in typically male dominated industries.I also have issues with women who always feel they need to prove something (I deal with this a lot at work).0 -
However, I do have a problem if you lead with your educational foot and think you are superior solely because of your education. I also have issues with women who always feel they need to prove something (I deal with this a lot at work). I was in a meeting one day with our counsel to discuss how to proceed with a case. I threw out a suggestion, she took offense. She then threw in my face that she graduated top of her class at U. of Miami Law School and asked me what I've accomplished on the academic side. Completely uncalled for and I've ONLY experienced this with female co-workers. I'm sure men do it too, but it hasn't happened to me.
It has nothing to do with education, everything to do with his/her insecurities. Men have them, too. I'd probably be a bit insecure, myself, if my degree was from the University of Miami... :-)
In general, people who are relatively comfortable with themselves and do not have insecurities about their intelligence tend to appreciate intelligent people. People who subconsciously don't feel they belong, don't believe they stack up, perhaps subconsciously feel they are over their head, tend to surround themselves with weak, less intelligent people. It gives them comfort, the illusion of power. In their relationships, they can at least play Alpha Dog at home.
--P0 -
if you think women want to feel controlled, you need to go back to kindergarten. women want to feel safe. they don't want to feel controlled. they might want a CONFIDENT male, but that doesn't translate to CONTROLLING male.
as for the "women want an alpha" comment DMZ made. women want confidence, but a true alpha male typically ends up being too jerky for women to stay with for too long. true alphas usually don't give a rats @ss about what a woman is thinking or feeling, or what her opinion is.
the book JJ posted is the one i'm talking about. and it is suggested by the man that wrote it that EVERYONE reads it. because abuse comes in different packages. it doesn't always look the same. and if a man IS trying to control you. trying to get you under his thumb and make you feel small, and he's only doing it with his words, you are going to start second guessing yourself. it might be so slow that you don't even realize it's happening.
NEEDING to be in control, is a red flag.
this is straight from the book, like i said i haven't called Mike ABUSIVE, simply stated he reminded me of a type of abusive man.
"Controlling men fall on a spectrum of behaviors, from those who exhibit only a few of the tactics I describe in this book to those who use almost all of them. Similarly, these men run a gamut in their attitudes, from those who are willing to accept confrontation about their behaviors and strive to change them, to those who won't listen to the woman's perspective at all, feel completely justified, and become highly retaliatory if she attempts to stand up for herself. "
Mike said he wants to be in control and take control. but, maybe he isn't the type that will walk all over someone he is into. maybe if she wants to have a choice or an opinion he will let her. maybe he can listen to her side and make changes if there need to be changes.0 -
Yeah, I agree with this. But eh, what do you expect... Apparently, you can only be one way or another and it has to be one of the extremes.There's nothing wrong with a man who wants to be in control, be the provider, and be the "alpha" one in the relationship. In fact, I've heard complaints on here about men who *don't* take control and who *don't* want to be the provider. I'm still baffled on how anyone could take this as being abusive. It almost seems like your damned if you do and you're damned if you don't type of situation.
I've seen that in the past when women felt they constantly had to prove themselves and not even in typically male dominated industries.I also have issues with women who always feel they need to prove something (I deal with this a lot at work).
First of all Mike abusive WTF all he wants is to be the alpha in the relationship. That doesnt make him abusive. We say time and time again how we like take charge men but then when a man admits he likes women who are more submissive he an abuser, BS sorry, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Despite what people tell us some people are betas and thats ok.
Also I work in a mostly female building where they are constantly throwing around their accomplishments, academic and otherwise. There is an old say "Nurses eat their young" its true nothing worse then an older nurse who thinks a young one is doing something she should be doing.
Also to remind you Mike has stated his fantesy perfect girl on here. That means if he could have everything he wanted but somehow it think if she has most of what he wanted he would take that too.
Dont act like each and everyone of you doesnt have a perfect for you male tailored in your head that is your fantesy.0 -
ok, i think we are thinking of different types of control then.
you mean, like take the lead. ask for the date, make the reservation, pay, etc? right?
or do you mean, like controlling, he gets to decide what you wear and where you go and who you talk to?0 -
It has nothing to do with education, everything to do with his/her insecurities. Men have them, too. I'd probably be a bit insecure, myself, if my degree was from the University of Miami... :-)
Nice comment P!
The law school and business school worlds are very similar. In essence, JDs/MBAs from the Ivy League/Top 25 ranked schools are what matter most. Big companies/big law thinks Top 25 school degrees are what matters most in an education.
So you might see someone who comes from outside of a Top 25 JD/MBA with a chip on the shoulder and always feeling like there is something to prove because they often get passed over by the perceived top tier companies.0 -
Mike, if you want I can hook you up with my ex-girlfriend. She was dumber than a box of rocks, had no education, and made very little money working out of her house that her parents bought for her. She was fun and bubbly and very good looking though.
She was surprised that she couldn't taste the salt when swimming in Lake Michigan. For someone that's lived their whole life in Michigan I thought this was a little odd.
One time there was a song playing on the radio she said "Is this Kathy Perry?"
Me: "You mean Katy Perry? yeah I think so."
Her: "Who's Katy Perry?"
But I think it all boils down to the fact that we want someone on our intellectual level or a little bit below. I don't want to feel like I'm the dumb one or feel like I'm talking to a 5th grader. I just feel like I mesh better with people that are on about the same level as me. The only problem is that too many times we relate education level to intelligence. I also dated someone who was very book smart and ended up getting her masters in business at an Ivy League school, but socially she would do things like walk into the guys bathroom and could not park a car to save her life. So I never really felt intimidated.0 -
good! more smart girls for the rest of us. i love a woman who can discuss science and politics on a high level.0
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^^^^ A man's view for the win, thanks P! :drinker:I genuinely am surprised that men seem to prefer less intelligent women. More surprised some here are open about it. And I guess that's admirable (their openness). Can't really understand why anyone woud want to be in a relationship with someone who is not intelligent. For me, it's like a preference for unattractive people.
Janie has a great point here. Most (none?) of us do not know Mike IRL but if he is 100% honest on the board, he should at least understand how he is perceived. I think this is especially important when someone is so polarizing. A good lesson for all of us.If I were Mike, I would want to know this, as unintentionally giving women this vibe could very well be the reason I'm still single.
I wonder if this goes back to the conversation about areas of the country? The chance that a woman would feel the need to do that here in Boston seems less likely to me. Could it be that women do have more to prove in places where the majority aren't educated or hold certain jobs? Or perhaps they do feel belittled in their career by men in general (and you specifically by her words to you)? This is a question I'm posing, so please note that I am not assuming anything here...She then threw in my face that she graduated top of her class at U. of Miami Law School and asked me what I've accomplished on the academic side. Completely uncalled for and I've ONLY experienced this with female co-workers. I'm sure men do it too, but it hasn't happened to me.0 -
It has nothing to do with education, everything to do with his/her insecurities. Men have them, too. I'd probably be a bit insecure, myself, if my degree was from the University of Miami... :-)
Nice comment P!
The law school and business school worlds are very similar. In essence, JDs/MBAs from the Ivy League/Top 25 ranked schools are what matter most. Big companies/big law thinks Top 25 school degrees are what matters most in an education.
So you might see someone who comes from outside of a Top 25 JD/MBA with a chip on the shoulder and always feeling like there is something to prove because they often get passed over by the perceived top tier companies.
I don't think P's comment was that deep. I think it was an alum from one ACC school taking a dig at grads from another one.0 -
Dont act like each and everyone of you doesnt have a perfect for you male tailored in your head that is your fantesy.
She means me. :blushing:0 -
I think being educated and intelligent has nothing to do with beta or alpha.
In fact I believe a strong alpha can handle a woman with a doctorate any day.
I want that kind of a man..who is confident enough in himself that he is not threatened by my personal success. Who I can still be feminine with and who is the ying to my yang. My degree's should not be a turn off..to the man who turns me on. I do want a man who is assertive and has a take control personality, but hopefully has compassion enough to take my needs and wants into the equation when he makes those decisions as well as his own.0 -
^^^^ A man's view for the win, thanks P! :drinker:I genuinely am surprised that men seem to prefer less intelligent women. More surprised some here are open about it. And I guess that's admirable (their openness). Can't really understand why anyone woud want to be in a relationship with someone who is not intelligent. For me, it's like a preference for unattractive people.
Janie has a great point here. Most (none?) of us do not know Mike IRL but if he is 100% honest on the board, he should at least understand how he is perceived. I think this is especially important when someone is so polarizing. A good lesson for all of us.If I were Mike, I would want to know this, as unintentionally giving women this vibe could very well be the reason I'm still single.
I wonder if this goes back to the conversation about areas of the country? The chance that a woman would feel the need to do that here in Boston seems less likely to me. Could it be that women do have more to prove in places where the majority aren't educated or hold certain jobs? Or perhaps they do feel belittled in their career by men in general (and you specifically by her words to you)? This is a question I'm posing, so please note that I am not assuming anything here...She then threw in my face that she graduated top of her class at U. of Miami Law School and asked me what I've accomplished on the academic side. Completely uncalled for and I've ONLY experienced this with female co-workers. I'm sure men do it too, but it hasn't happened to me.
We all have our impressions of people colored by events and interactions in life and I wonder if you are willing to take a step back and listen to what you wrote?
Perhaps it is just me and really am hoping to be constructive here even if you don`t take it that way but my perception,especially of late is that you are embittered to some degree with men due to things you have hinted at as far as personal events in your life.
That may be justified but if it begins to control you what is the gain from it.
Look at your last paragraph...while not accusatory it still insinuates that the lady described might be justified in her actions because of either men in general or Mike personally.
Things don`t always have to be the blame of a male and that is what I see you almost always trying to do.
She could just as easily be miserable person.
I have found that nasty *kitten* people can equally come equipped with a penis or a vagina.
You are probably going to be upset that I say this but it is what I see and in that light the "outrage" at times ironic.
Not trying to be hurtful but honest and hope you can take it that way. :flowerforyou:0 -
But I think it all boils down to the fact that we want someone on our intellectual level or a little bit below. I don't want to feel like I'm the dumb one or feel like I'm talking to a 5th grader. I just feel like I mesh better with people that are on about the same level as me. The only problem is that too many times we relate education level to intelligence. I also dated someone who was very book smart and ended up getting her masters in business at an Ivy League school, but socially she would do things like walk into the guys bathroom and could not park a car to save her life. So I never really felt intimidated.
^^^^^^ This right here. Despite my complete inability to spell I have a high I.Q. Part of the problem with Mr. NG was he was a bit ..dim. You want someone who you can talk to. You never want to feel like you have to dumb down a conversation for the other person. However most people don't want to feel like they are the dumb one in the relationship either. I also agree that education is only part of the overall intelegence though. I know book part people who have no common sense and a ditzy as hell, they cant help it.0 -
She was surprised that she couldn't taste the salt when swimming in Lake Michigan. For someone that's lived their whole life in Michigan I thought this was a little odd.
YES!0 -
Huh. All I know is the most abusive, hurtful, damaging, controlling and mean individuals I have ever had the misfortune to be around have ALL been women.
In my current relationship, I think my boyfriend believes he is somewhat alpha and/or possibly a little more decisive and in charge...but I know without a doubt that if I needed or wanted to control any situation, I could extremely easily. This suits me. My strength is seemingly very apparent to all...but in some things I look up to and defer to him. I do this purposely. Not because I am stupid or can't do it on my own...but because I enjoy feeling like a girl, a little taken care of for once and having pride in a protective, masculine partner for a change. It feeds his ego..in a good way, though I am not faking my admiration for him. I guess because I do not lack for confidence, I don't feel the need to have the spotlight, be the smartest or talk about my accomplishments. It comes out anyway. His ego would probably be bruised before mine..and honestly I enjoy making him feel good about himself.
"She stoops to conquer"! Mwah hahahaha
I did call him an elitist snob last night jokingly...we will see how that goes down in future..0
