Daily Check-In for Keto Friends 2017 Version
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The weather was beautiful for the race. Started at 30 degrees and got up to about 50.
Only saw two gators on the run. Was probably too cold for them to be out. They like sunshine. This little guy was about six feet long.
Proof. My first "medal" made of wood. lol Trail runs are awesome. The atmosphere is totally different, a different crowd than street runners for sure.
Ran into my son twice on the course. This was at mile 22 for me and mile 40 for him. (He did the 100 mile run)
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »
@Marcelynh - Ketoacidosis is pretty much impossible if your pancreas is producing insulin... Its the state of high blood sugar and high ketones in the absence of insulin. @Sunny_Bunny_ can explain better - her daughter is a Type 1 Diabetic, so she's done MASSIVE amounts of research on the topic...
I stand corrected. I only know what my body was doing.
I am fine and the addition of some sugar/carbs righted the situation. From MY research on the situation afterwards at The Diet Doctor and Dr. Volek's site I was not imagining the symptoms and while it may not have been diabetic ketoacidosis it was real and needed attention, which I did properly.
I didn't mean to imply that the situation was not real or was imagined - I'm so sorry if it came across that way at all. I'm just saying that it was unlikely to be that exact issue. Many symptoms overlap, and so it's really difficult to determine what something is. Correlation is not causation is something I have to remember myself - just because something I did happened around the same time and issue resolved doesn't mean that it was the cure - and it doesn't mean that it is NOT the cure!
I'm so glad that you were able to resolve that scary issue. I'm glad that you and your husband could figure it out so quickly. Anything blood sugar related, anything dizzy/weakness/nausea or anything like that which doesn't resolve as expected scares the fire out of me! Especially since this was your first significant race while on keto...
As you said in your other post, continuing to experiment with what you do pre-, post-, and during your races will hopefully resolve this scare for you, and keep it from getting to this point again! I would hate for something helping you gain health strides to make your racing harder on you and your body... Every one is so different... I think someone mentioned it, but we used to have an active member here who maintained a level of ketosis at nearly 200 grams of carbs on his heaviest activity days - he used to do 20-30 mile bike rides - and have a snickers candy bar at some point - so his metabolism obviously was completely different than others who would have had bad sugar crashes after that...
I hope that you continued journey, @Marcelynh towards finding your best you is far less scary than this time was!0 -
Thanks for the pics @Marcelynh! About that gator...I had a rule when I was an avid golfer...no gators! It was limiting but those things scare the bejeepers out of me.
I've been wondering where the marathon was. Benzo Bend State Park, Texas? I also noted the banner advertising pickle juice in one of your other photos. I guess it is not for keto folks only.
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I've been wondering where the marathon was. Benzo Bend State Park, Texas? I also noted the banner advertising pickle juice in one of your other photos. I guess it is not for keto folks only.
Pickle juice is HUGE at trail runs. They sell it and it is at all the aid stations, plus pickles. Which I took advantage of.
Yes, the run was at Brazos Bend State Park, known for their alligators, kind of an alligator refuge. I expected to see more so two was a bit of a disappointment. This race is known as the fastest trail course in the US. It is totally flat with the exception of one tiny hill (they say 10 foot elevation). My Garmin showed my lowest elevation was 33 ft. and highest was 66 feet so it's pretty darned flat. The amazing thing is the winner of the 100 mile did it in 14 hours (may have already mentioned that). That's an 8:20 mile for 100 miles! Wow.... I just can't get over that. My son took 29 hours to do his 100 miles and he's beat today. Don't know what would be harder, 29 hours of moving or only 14 at a faster pace. I know I did one half-marathon in 2.5 hrs and then later did another with a friend that just walked (slowwwwwly) and it took 5 hours with her. The 2.5 took less of a toll on me than the 5 hrs did.
I liked the trail running so much better than street races so I might just start doing them. The people are friendlier too. Sorry to say that but it's true, it's a different type of folks running trails. You have to be willing to put on a headlamp and go out at 4 am dodging tree roots and all. And it does take a different type of running style. Your ankles take more on with the uneven terrain but the scenery sure is nicer than streets and buildings.
@KnitOrMiss - thanks
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I've been wondering where the marathon was. Benzo Bend State Park, Texas? I also noted the banner advertising pickle juice in one of your other photos. I guess it is not for keto folks only.
Pickle juice is HUGE at trail runs. They sell it and it is at all the aid stations, plus pickles. Which I took advantage of.
Yes, the run was at Brazos Bend State Park, known for their alligators, kind of an alligator refuge. I expected to see more so two was a bit of a disappointment. This race is known as the fastest trail course in the US. It is totally flat with the exception of one tiny hill (they say 10 foot elevation). My Garmin showed my lowest elevation was 33 ft. and highest was 66 feet so it's pretty darned flat. The amazing thing is the winner of the 100 mile did it in 14 hours (may have already mentioned that). That's an 8:20 mile for 100 miles! Wow.... I just can't get over that. My son took 29 hours to do his 100 miles and he's beat today. Don't know what would be harder, 29 hours of moving or only 14 at a faster pace. I know I did one half-marathon in 2.5 hrs and then later did another with a friend that just walked (slowwwwwly) and it took 5 hours with her. The 2.5 took less of a toll on me than the 5 hrs did.
I liked the trail running so much better than street races so I might just start doing them. The people are friendlier too. Sorry to say that but it's true, it's a different type of folks running trails. You have to be willing to put on a headlamp and go out at 4 am dodging tree roots and all. And it does take a different type of running style. Your ankles take more on with the uneven terrain but the scenery sure is nicer than streets and buildings.
@KnitOrMiss - thanks
I find it utterly fascinating that the sheer act of being in motion longer, rather than more intense exertion for less time, is more exhausting. The human body is such a mystery, isn't it?1 -
Nuts! They got me again. Worse than potato chips for me. I love them. Just can't find a strategy to make them work for me.0
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Nuts! They got me again. Worse than potato chips for me. I love them. Just can't find a strategy to make them work for me.
@elize7 - the only thing I've seen recommended is to get them raw, not roasted and salted, and soak them overnight... Or at least not salted... It's the salt that adds to their magic... And then to buy only individual packs (or make them, if you can do that successfully), brush your teeth after a single serving, etc. I did macadamia nuts when I was first keto, and I could force myself to stop after a few servings, but that was because I beat myself up over the cost of them. More than once did I eat a whole can (5 servings, I think)...0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »
@Marcelynh - Ketoacidosis is pretty much impossible if your pancreas is producing insulin... Its the state of high blood sugar and high ketones in the absence of insulin. @Sunny_Bunny_ can explain better - her daughter is a Type 1 Diabetic, so she's done MASSIVE amounts of research on the topic...
I stand corrected. I only know what my body was doing.
I am fine and the addition of some sugar/carbs righted the situation. From MY research on the situation afterwards at The Diet Doctor and Dr. Volek's site I was not imagining the symptoms and while it may not have been diabetic ketoacidosis it was real and needed attention, which I did properly.
I’m glad you’ve found your proper balance.
Knit is right. Ketoacidosis is impossible in any person who’s body produces insulin. It can ONLY happen when blood sugar is very high AND ketones are above 15 mmol/dl. It’s not even the ketones themselves that actually cause it though. It’s the very severe dehydration from the frequent urination due to the body trying to get rid of the excess glucose and ketones, and possibly from vomiting as well.
First a person MUST have high blood sugar. We’re talking 250+ and usually it’s over 400 and often so high it’s actually unable to be measured on most readers. This must persist for long enough time that the body begins making ketones. The purpose of the ketones is life saving. They are literally preventing the person from dying so the person may have more time to get insulin to get energy into the cells. The ketones are actually a good thing.
When blood sugar is high, long before any ketones are present, there is a dramatic increase in thirst because your body needs to make urine. A lot of it! So that it can flush as much glucose out that way as possible. Unfortunately, the person begins losing electrolytes with all this water as well and there’s no way they can replace them as fast as they are losing them and dehydration becomes a huge problem. Which seems strange when it’s not surprising to see them drink a gallon of water every 30 minutes and pee every 5-10 minutes. The acidosis occurs because of the extreme loss of sodium and potassium. The body cannot maintain its ph and the blood becomes acidic. Well before this happens you have a person with physical symptoms that resemble being drunk. They are wobbly when they walk. Furiously guzzling water with an urgency like their life depends on it. Because it does. Breathing is very short, like panting. They are drowsy and can fall asleep very easily. In a fairly short time, there is pain in various organs that the person, in my experience my daughter, is unable to even describe. Either because the brain itself is barely functioning enough to still communicate or because it’s simply indescribable.
This isn’t uncomfortable. It isn’t a feeling like something just isn’t right. It isn’t simple pain. It isn’t like being sick or even a bad flu. It feels like you are dying, because with ketoacidosis you are, unless insulin can be delivered and IV fluids are started to replace the lost electrolytes ASAP. Even once insulin is given and blood sugar returns to normal the electrolytes typically take 2 full days to get close enough to normal to correct the blood ph.
With all that said, it’s obvious your symptoms were not ketoacidosis. However, they very likely were low sodium and potassium. This doesn’t make you acidotic though unless you mimick the dehydrating behaviors in the above scenario long enough to create a tiny change in blood ph. Which is possible. Even then, it takes days and days of dehydrating behaviors, which can include drinking a lot of water, to begin getting a teeny tiny fraction of the symptoms I described above. These symptoms people often call “keto flu”. They are 100% avoidable. Just to be clear, im not saying “keto flu” is any form of acidosis. Im saying it’s possible for sodium and potassium levels to get so low a person can become acidotic. A person just needs to understand that water isn’t the key to hydration, sodium is, and that when you go low carb you will first lose a bunch of water weight from using up a good deal of your stored glycogen then from increased urination, however nothing like in ketoacidosis, and merely drinking water is only going to cause more sodium and potassium loss and worsen the “keto flu” symptoms. Which are very commonly, light headedness, brain fog, headache, nausea, muscle cramps, fatigue, thirst, cravings, hunger when you should be hungry, constipation and heart flutters just to name a few.
Sodium is the key to having no “keto flu”. Or more carbs as you discovered. With more carbs, you don’t excrete sodium the same way and it doesn’t get low as easily. It still can happen very easily with anyone limiting carbs, but the symptoms aren’t perceived the same way and it won’t happen as quickly.2 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ - Thank you for the sadly excellent description of diabetic ketoacidosis. As well as the comparison to the so-called keto flu. I still feel completely heartbroken every time I think of all the horrible things your daughter has gone through...and I'd definitely wish that on no one...
I don't know if you missed to context to her extreme dehydration, but she ran a marathon (extended one, like 28 or 29 miles), and kept up her hydration/electrolytes (from how it seemed) fairly well during the race, but afterwards, I think she encountered some kind of crazy delayed effect or a weird rebound electrolyte shift... I'm not sure, and I haven't done the science, but I think that she depleted most of her electrolytes, and the body was robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak, and that next day, she hit a wall with being depleted, and her body no longer had enough stores to balance it...
I'm glad that @Marcelynh was finally able to get level - and relatively so quickly! I am wondering if there any keto-friendly post-race electrolyte replenishers available - I'm sure she can make some...like an after race drink to chug down, etc., perhaps even every 4-6 waking hours for the next day or something. She was truly well prepared, it just was her first race since going keto, and so whatever delayed or rebound effect she had was unexpected after feeling so strong AFTER the race... I'm excited to see what she learns as she continues to train and race!0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@Sunny_Bunny_ - Thank you for the sadly excellent description of diabetic ketoacidosis. As well as the comparison to the so-called keto flu. I still feel completely heartbroken every time I think of all the horrible things your daughter has gone through...and I'd definitely wish that on no one...
I don't know if you missed to context to her extreme dehydration, but she ran a marathon (extended one, like 28 or 29 miles), and kept up her hydration/electrolytes (from how it seemed) fairly well during the race, but afterwards, I think she encountered some kind of crazy delayed effect or a weird rebound electrolyte shift... I'm not sure, and I haven't done the science, but I think that she depleted most of her electrolytes, and the body was robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak, and that next day, she hit a wall with being depleted, and her body no longer had enough stores to balance it...
I'm glad that @Marcelynh was finally able to get level - and relatively so quickly! I am wondering if there any keto-friendly post-race electrolyte replenishers available - I'm sure she can make some...like an after race drink to chug down, etc., perhaps even every 4-6 waking hours for the next day or something. She was truly well prepared, it just was her first race since going keto, and so whatever delayed or rebound effect she had was unexpected after feeling so strong AFTER the race... I'm excited to see what she learns as she continues to train and race!
Oh. I did miss all that back story.
I still suspect sodium and potassium were very low. The delayed reaction still makes sense. If you read The Salt Fix, he talks about how our tissues store sodium and can mobilize it into the blood of needed but then the tissues become depleted. Since they’re mostly storage it’s not such a big deal but there’s a protective effect of the sodium in tissues too. Anyway, if sodium and probably potassium too wasn’t still being replenished even after the race while still being keto, severe depletion would be likely. The daily need is high and it’s even higher for activity like a race like that. If someone is dosing Salt during hard activity but then mostly just stops the next day because they figure they don’t really need to do it anymore, the daily need isn’t being met. The day before doesn’t much matter. I mean, someone can go from zero symptoms to having symptoms in just a few hours in the right circumstances.1 -
Okay, so I had a regularly scheduled Dr.'s appointment and we talked through what happened after the race. Knowing my personal medical history he and I were able to piece together a good picture of what happened. I was not low on electrolytes. My sodium and potassium and magnesium were just fine as I made super sure of that. I even thought I might have been overdoing it during the race but felt good so I didn't worry. After reading the book on Low-Carb performance I was well prepared for the electrolyte issues. While there were some other issues which I'd rather not disclose the main ones were that 1) I had hydrated well during the race but afterwards went quite some time without doing so and that contributed to dehydration. And 2) I have extremely low blood pressure and that was a contributing factor. Those two main things contributed to the issues I had. I also need to learn how many carbs I can consume when racing. That is something that can be totally different for each person and I just haven't found my level. Since it was my first marathon while doing Keto I was probably too conservative and needed some for blood sugar levels.
The good thing is my Dr. is just fine with my doing Keto. I read so many people who have their Dr. against keto.
And I felt great during the race. Never ran out of energy, super clarity, it was a good race.
Thanks for the explanations about ketoacidosis @Sunny_Bunny_ . I just jumped there out of ignorance and reading some basic symptoms. Thankfully the treatement I chose was the right one for my issue. I'm much more informed now.3 -
Hey keto friends! Since this is the daily check in thread for 2017, I figured with 2017 coming to an end, now would be an appropriate time to have a fresh new thread for the coming year. Feel free to jump in there anytime!
I will add the link here as soon as I figure out how!1 -
Just threw a successful Christmas party where I served both keto and classic holiday treats. I am happy to report I did not cave in and cheat, and actually I wasn’t fixating on the food like I thought I would be.3
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The not fixating on food is a huge benefit in my experience. It's just food. Kudos.
I've found that giving myself permission to eat "whatever" makes it less seductive therefore less desirable and the "want" goes away.1 -
By tomorrow the toffee nuts damage will be undone, I'm back in a good keto groove for a couple days now - with only keto foods in the kitchen, and still not a drop of alcohol for over a week....feeling good about things.
In six days I'll be seeing my son and that doesn't seem so long.
I think I'm going to take these remaining days of 2017, and try to feel grateful about what I do have in this life and forget about the losses for awhile.
What doesn't make me happy now, can find its way into a New Years Resolution, or just fade away.
So grateful for all my fitness pals!3 -
4031isaiah wrote: »
@4031isaiah - I pinned the post to the top of the page, too. Let me know if you'd rather have it in the lower section instead...1 -
Hi how does diet Dr pepper fit in with low carbs?? Is it allowed?0
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12 weeks is a good amount of time to wait. I have my first headache, and it came right after that energy drink. I was trying to be proactive since we have 2 family birthdays this month and one in Aug and our anniversary. But I still have a fair amount if weight to loose. I am pretty good with the mentality, lets keep focused this year and i will enjoy those treats (Or keto like treats) much better next year with better health and more weight loss. Thanks KnitOrMiss
I'm trying to learn what are keto treats?0 -
goldengirl111 wrote: »Hi how does diet Dr pepper fit in with low carbs?? Is it allowed?
Supposedly Diet drinks do not affect your ketosis levels. But that can vary according to the individual in my experience. What I have discovered though is that diet drinks do raise my insulin levels, my body reacts to artificial sweeteners just like they are sugar. So keep track of what your body does when you consume it and go from there. I find that avoiding the artificial sweeteners keep me from having sugar cravings.1 -
I've been eating like crap over the holidays and I feel crappy. I'm so happy to be back on keto!2
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Starting Keto on 1/2. Looking forward to it!1
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Hi! My name is Christine. Starting KETO again. Been off for a year and time to get back to taking care of ME0
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UGH! MFP still cutting my posts in half. Anyways, lost 100 lbs last round need to lose 20 or so. Doing Keto
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Thank you1
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