Ha! Beeps, how many days does that make me? I like your challenge with my challenge, Gives me something to work on.

My shoulder is killing me today. It's raining and the shoulder workout yesterday isn't helping the matter.

JO, yeah, I will check out your diary. thanks.

Didn't wake up hungry so protein might be a little lower today. I am still aiming for 75 g though.

Happy Friday Ladies!

Dna- Have a happy birthday my fellow Taurus!!! (mine's on the 19th)

Rzarley- You'll be OK. you can get over the anxiety. I still get embarrassed every once in a while. I am glad you have someone that makes you stronger, and more confident. That is a great!

Manic- I am going to pay closer attention to my protein.

Pudding- I hope you are feeling better today.

Willlift- I am confident you can do whatever you put your mind to. Don't get discouraged with logging.

Beeps- I look back at the dress I missed it too! You look amazing!

Marieann- the Olympic bar is 45 lbs. ....so 105lbs. is great! I notice a change starting in my back about Stage 3, but I'm sure everyone is different.

I am doing good going to try mixed grip tonight, and see how my deadlifts go, and my little NSV is that I can now actually see a bicep muscle line now when I try it is no longer covered by a layer of fat!!!!

Have a good weekend y'all!!

Marie, I think all of us (who have been on here a while) established that fact. LOL I lift 4 days a week M, T, TH, F so I'm always hungry. :laugh: ANd you are deadlifting 105!!! That's great.

I didn't wake up hungry but I am starvin' Marvin now.

TGIF all!!

Beeps @ cardio...wohoo!!!

Marie, I do not know if our Oly bars are the same, but the one I use is 45lbs...way to go!!!

I agree, the arms are usually the first to show (initial) definition - at least for my case.

Today was my Total Body Composition Analysis....and am quite chuffed, I must say!! Compared to last month, body fat percentage has dropped by 1.4%; BF dropped by 3.6 lbs....!! Lean Body Mass (LBM) - and therefore the Lean Segmental Mass in each area, like right arm, left arm etc - however did drop, granted by an almost negligible number...Intracellular and extracellular water also dropped!!

I cannot wait for my next month's appointment to see how that goes.

I treated myself to a glass of Moscato wine for lunch, and a pair of new hard rocking spaghetti strap wedges!!

Lift on ladies!! :flowerforyou:

. i can do a fat shred later, after i've built up some muscle. the older you get, the more you lose muscle. if you gain and lose weight multiple times, every time you lose, you lose muscle and fat and gain back fat only. which left me with a high body fat percentage and low muscularity. a set up for a frail old age and weak bones to boot.

^^^ This is total bro science and you will have ZERO research to back up this position....do whatever you want, for yourself, but I am writing this response to MAKE SURE all the ladies here at NROL4W chat do NOT think there is any SCIENCE behind the 3 sentences you wrote!

hmmm. well ok then. i guess youre' an expert of some kind? i'm open to hearing what you think is the correct interpretation. what is bro science?

seen quite a bit of research showing how you lose muscle as you age, esp if you don't use it. i'll attach a link that contains a nice summary. http://www.ismni.org/jmni/pdf/38/02MALTAIS.pdf

Sunshine, I agree- most of us have much less muscle because of age, diet, hormones, etc than we think. Not total broscience. I understand your reasoning for wanting to wait to cut- I thought about doing a recomp or even a bulk at a higher BF% until I read some of Lyle McDonald's stuff (here's one: www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html). I didn't have the patience for recomp, and a bulk would have resulted in more fat than muscle gain.

i find i have to be totally committed to the idea that in the long run it will be better for me to have a more muscular body. i can do a fat shred later, after i've built up some muscle. the older you get, the more you lose muscle. if you gain and lose weight multiple times, every time you lose, you lose muscle and fat and gain back fat only. which left me with a high body fat percentage and low muscularity. a set up for a frail old age and weak bones to boot.

it's a psychological game changer. when you're used to calorie restriction and cardio and the scale, it's harder - yet totally necessary - to make the jump to a program that's a lot of work now for a benefit that seems further down the line.

http://www.ismni.org/jmni/pdf/38/02MALTAIS.pdf

I am going to read this article more thoroughly later, and I am not doubt some muscle mass loss due to age, and or hormone changes within the body. I also do not doubt as we age it is harder to gain muscle mass, again hormones, metabolism play a big part of this process. Please remember it is hard to put on muscle....period. Even men work hard to gain muscle mass. Women lack don't have the levels of testosterone men do...that makes it even harder for us to put on muscle mass, and next to impossible to gain the bulk of a man.

if you gain and lose weight multiple times, every time you lose, you lose muscle and fat and gain back fat only. which left me with a high body fat percentage and low muscularity. a set up for a frail old age and weak bones to boot.

This is where I have a problem with your statement:

a) yes it is true if you eat at a deficit you do not add muscle, but lifting you can maintain the muscle you already have. At a 20 % deficit of your TDEE you will lose very little of your muscle mass that you currently have. if you are lifting heavy.

b) Lifting heavy has actually shown to reduce the loss of bone density with age, and my even help build new bone in postmenopausal women, and those who suffer with osteoporosis. (I can find the article again, and provide you some links if you want)

c) Why do you think that just because you lose SOME muscle mass, anything you gain back is ONLY going to be fat? If you are working out steadily, and you decrease your deficit from 20% to 10%. So you are eating closer to maintenance calories why can you not put on muscle mass? Why ONLY fat? If that were true body builders would never gain the little bit of muscle they lost on a cut cycle, and would never be able to add muscle mass.

Please if someone can add to this, or if someone sees a flaw in my research let me know. While I am some what knowledgeable of the bodies anatomy/physiology, I am far from an Anatomy/ Physiology major. There are so many medical sources, and other source that may or may not be reputable, or no longer valid. I also acknowledge that all research papers, and articles are open to an individuals interpretation of said article, or source.

With that said, if I am mistaken on a view I would love to be corrected, and am fond of critiquing. I do promise to read your source more thoroughly, and am curious as to why you came away with the thought process you did. :happy:

See this is a prime example of what I am talking about with interpretation. I missed it until I just read barbellcowgirls response to your statement. I see why you would want to concentrate on muscle gain, and wait to cut fat until later, but I am still concerned mostly by your last two statements of bone loss, and only able to gain fat after losing some muscle mass.

See this is a prime example of what I am talking about with interpretation. I missed it until I just read barbellcowgirls response to your statement. I see why you would want to concentrate on muscle gain, and wait to cut fat until later, but I am still concerned mostly by your last two statements of bone loss, and only able to gain fat after losing some muscle mass.

Basically I'm afraid that the program might not work as well for someone of my age - if it doesn't give me the results I want after completing 6 months of NROL4W, I will only then try a cardio shred, because by then, I reason, I will have put some muscle back on, and could theoretically withstand a brief 3 month cardio shred. But I don't really know if this is the right thing to do, it's just me hedging my bets.

Sunshine, yep, I think Beeps misinterpreted what you were saying as well.
We start losing muscle (if we aren't strength training) in our 20's. That alone should be enough to convince women to hold onto what precious muscle they have left even if they don't make efforts to gain some.
Did you just start lifting? If so, my guess is you'll be amazed at what a difference you will make in your body in a year with just lifting and eating at maintenance.

Thanks cowgirl, exactly. I did strength training for about 3-4 years in my 30s, but when I started having children, stopped. My now ex husband and I used to lift together. Obviously he's out of the picture now for the last 8 years. The gain-lose cycles started after my second child was born. Started the cardio shreds at age 40, gained and lost 4x. I've kept 20 off for a year, but want to lose 20 more.

Are you suggesting to eat at maintenance and just life for a year? Even w 20 lb to go? I am 5't5" 148 lb.
Just started weight training again

Sunshine, I think it depends upon your patience level, your goals, and how your body responds. If your main goal is muscle and strength right now, eating at maintenance or just below maintenance may bring a lot of changes to your body. If you're really concerned about fat loss, do a little more of a deficit and see what happens. I know some women, like Samntha14, who found that their bodies changed drastically with lifting and a 10lbs loss.

I'm 5'5" and 144lbs. I thought I would need to weigh in the 130s to get to a mini-goal of a 28" waist, but I currently have a 27.5" waist (in the mornings, LOL). To get to my desired "look" and BF%, I think I need to lose 10-15lbs and then bulk or do a recomp depending upon how much muscle I actually have under this fat. But my goal has changed from trying to get the fat off quickly to maintaining my strength and muscle mass. I don't do even a 20% deficit. I just want to keep seeing a slow downward trend on the scale and inches!

Manic, you are killing the protein! I don't keep eating if I'm full once I've met my protein goals. I don't see the point in stuffing myself. Some days I net pretty low due to my activity, other days I'm well above what I need. It all evens out.