Cultivating Mindset For Success ?

DannyYMi54321

The personal traimer who leads my boot camp said something yesterday that really resonated with me. He said that in 10 years working professionally in a the fitness industry he has observed that the people who achieve long-term success in achieving weight loss and fitness goals develop a mimdset that says the goal is everything, no cheat, no deviation is worth it, That you have to "want it badly enough that nothing else matters". -Not as in "nothing else in life", but as in " actions and behaviors that keep you stuck in place or move you in the wrong direction away from your goal". And you have to believe you can achieve it, and do not listen to the people in your life who doubt you or don't support you.

I like the concept of wanting it bad, making it a high priority, but it feels like there is a trap in there: if you slip, the self-recrimination is goimg to lead to self-doubt, and if you don't believe you can achieve your goal you will give up.

What do you think? How do you do it? Slips will happen, how do you prevent a small slip from becoming a game-ender?

Machka9

When I started with MFP, I was on a mission to lose weight. I was focused. I stuck with it for a full 16 weeks, and there was no deviation from the plan in that time. Not ever. Why would there be? I took it on as a challenge to do whatever it took to remain within my calorie limit every single day without fail no matter what was going on in my life.

There also weren't any people who doubted me or didn't support me. No one but my husband knew what I was doing.

At the end of 16 weeks, I had lost 15 kg and was back within my normal BMI range.

I took a 1-month break, then did it again for another 16 weeks and dropped to the lower half of my BMI range.

DannyYMi54321

Hi, Machka9. Would you mind elaborating on something that I find really compelling in what you wrote, but only if it's not too personal or strikes some kind of sensitive chord in you ("triggering")?:

"I was focused. I stuck with it for a full 16 weeks, and there was no deviation from the plan in that time. Not ever. Why would there be?" ...

"There also weren't any people who doubted me or didn't support me."

The reason I'm asking you this is because ... my own quest for the kind of control you exhibited is daunting to me. I have never had that level of control in my life over many things, food least of all. And that is because of my background. I'm a survivor of pretty extreme child abuse and grew up also witnessing my father abuse my siblings and my mother in a horrible way. I was abused physically, emotionally, and sexually, and it left deep scars, including binge eating.

Your most significant phrase was ..."no deviation from the plan in that time. Not ever. Why would there be?"

That seems to come from a place of great personal confidence and strength ... and that is very alien to me. Deviation from any plan comes very naturally, because I have no confidence and no strength ... well, I actually do, but I do not recognize it easily at all, and that makes it very, very difficult to manage many life situations.

I'm actually awesome at MAKING plans ... but terrible at following through. If I could stick with a plan, I'd be golden. But I allow every bump in the road to throw me into an emotional abyss of despair very disproportionate to it's real size. In terms of eating, I've been making progress in the sense that, after years of yo-yo diets, etc, I finally didn't yo-yo quite as far back, physically or mentally, the last time as I had let myself go, and my commitment to recovering from it, getting back on my right path didn't waiver even when circumstances felt bad - and that was new to me, NOT giving up hope was actually new to me, since hopelessness was a constant prior.

I really can't adequately verbalize exactly what I'm trying to say here, I hope this gives you some flavor of what I'm going for. I guess I'm trying to figure out what makes the people who are successful different from those who aren't, so I can "fake it until I make it."

Thanks in advance, whether or not you respond to this.

Machka9

Well first ... I'm the sort of person who gets what she wants. In other words, if I want a degree, I just keep plugging away at course after course after course, even when it gets tough and I wonder what on earth I'm doing ... and I get the degree. If I want a job in a particular location, I send off an absolute mountain of applications (and here in Australia, a job application is often about 10 pages long ... that's just how they do it) ... and eventually, I get a job. My sport is audax/randonneuring ... ultra-long distance cycling. If I want to complete a 400 km bicycle ride in the 27 hour time limit, I get on that bicycle and just keep pedalling. So when I decided that I wanted to lose weight, I did.

Second ... I kept the time limit short. I was only going to stick with it for 16 weeks. At the end of 16 weeks, I was taking a holiday to Canada. So for me, it wasn't a forever thing or massive lifestyle change or anything like that. I just needed to stick to it for 16 weeks. My university courses are about 14 weeks, and they're a lot harder than simply eating less, and I can make it through them, so why wouldn't I be able to make it through 16 weeks of eating less? Every time I craved something that wasn't going to fit in my calorie limit, I told myself that I just had a few weeks to go and then I could have it. But interestingly, when I took my 1-month diet break, I didn't end up eating as much as I thought I would.

Third ... I didn't adopt some diet (no paleo, no eating clean, no vegetarian, etc.). I simply kept my calories consumed within my calorie limit. This meant that I could eat whatever I wanted ... just less of it. And my diet wasn't that bad to begin with. The only change I made on what I ate before 6 pm was to drop the handful of cashews. I was planning to drop the handful of cashews anyway because I'm somewhat intolerant of tree nuts and I was discovering that they made me feel rather ill. After 6 pm, I changed my after work snack from a bag of chips or a large chocolate bar to cottage cheese, cucumber slices, and some whole grain crackers which I like and which make me feel better than the chips or chocolate. My dinner is slightly smaller, and my evening snack is a little lower in calories. So no massive changes, and no guilt or feelings of failure if I do decide to have a bit of chocolate or something.

In fact, my diet actually became more varied when I started with MFP because I spent some time browsing grocery stores and markets to find foods that would fit within my calorie limit ... and I discovered all sorts of good choices! And I made a decision when I started with MFP that I would not waste my calories on foods I didn't like. I would eat only foods I did like.

Fourth ... exercise. I love being active and have always done. I've been active since I could walk, and I've been logging/tracking my cycling since 1990. When I exercise, I can eat more!

So, when I am faced with a situation (birthday, Easter, friends coming to visit and wanting to go out for dinner, morning teas at work, etc.), I treat it like a challenge. What do I want to eat? What do I have to do so that I can eat that? It's all strategy! A few weeks after I started with MFP, I had my birthday weekend -- went out for a meal including dessert, of course, at a Mexican restaurant, ate half a cheesecake the next day, and more. But I also cycled a whole lot that weekend, enough to cover it all.

I guess, in a way, I made it easy for myself ... short time limit, more variety in my diet, lots of delicious food, exercising so I could eat more ... so there was no reason to deviate from the plan.

jenilla1

You need to set a goal with the intention of doing it, not trying to do it. So then you just do it. "Doing" is taking conscious action toward your goal. "Trying" automatically assumes that you might not succeed and gives you an unconscious way out.





Start small and get a taste of success; then you'll want bigger and better for yourself. And the process doesn't have to be perfect or pretty. It just needs to be "good enough." You do the best you can from day to day while continuing to move in the direction of your goal. There will be some screw ups (temporary pauses) along the way, but that's no reason to quit entirely. You'll get there if you just do it!

distinctlybeautiful

I also disagree with your trainer. It sounds like a surefire way to get into all-or-nothing thinking. Goals are great. General goals and specific goals, but you can reach goals even if you occasionally do things that appear to be contrary to those goals. Want to lose weight? Doesn't mean you have to stay in a caloric deficit every single day until you lose the weight you want to lose. There can be times where you go over your calories, and you can still lose weight. Want to get fitter? There can be times where you skip workouts or do less than you'd planned or don't push yourself, and you can still become fitter. I think it's important to figure out how to achieve the goals you want to achieve in a way that fits into your life.

As far as getting over slip-ups, I got much better at this when I realized that a lifestyle change is forever, and there's no way I'm going to be 100% on it forever. Slip-ups are inevitable and expected. I just spent a good half a year struggling and overeating and gaining some weight back, but I never considered myself to have failed or even fallen off track or off the wagon or however people call it. I was still trying. I was still striving for a healthful lifestyle. I was simply struggling. Life has its struggles, as you know, but it doesn't mean we've failed at it. I don't know the exact quote or who said it, but you've only failed if you've given up. Cheesy maybe, but I think it's true.

StealthHealth

JerSchmare wrote: »

I pretty much 100% disagree with your trainer. The people that make it happen stop bullish!ting around and get serious about work...long term. There is no goal or end game. Therefore, you have to make this work. You need birthday cake, pizza, ice cream and beer. Life is not just fitness and food. There's more than that. Learning how to train like a beast, eat like a king, and stay healthy is a balancing act. It called discipline. All the various pieces of life demand your attention and everything matters. Not just calories and fitness. Everything.

I agree with this (and disagree with the OP's trainer)

peperley

I don't know if I'm qualified to answer this but I can relate and have had some success. I think it's a case of pushing through at first, making efforts to change what needs changing and then, fundamentally when you don't have, or don't acknowledge, inner strength, really truly acknowledging your success - whatever form that success takes. I wanted to be able to run a mile and I did do it, eventually. I then wanted to be able to run 5k and I did do it, eventually. Then 10k and so it goes on.

The point is that whatever is going on internally it's the actual physical doing it that counts and once you've done it you can use that as cast iron proof to yourself that it IS possible, and if that's possible, then why not the next goal? If you're training - you are doing it. You can use that as proof to yourself that you are capable, that you do have the motivation to make changes. Same with eating - if you've done a day within your calorie goals, you can do it, you have done it and you can do it again.

As others have said, it can go wrong and you can have a bad day or whatever, but that doesn't mean it's game over. It's a continual process and when you have to work at building confidence in your ability to make things happen it can feel like you've failed (internal voice shrieking manically AGAIN! SEE!! YOU CAN'T DO THIS! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!) and it's at that point that you can wheel out to yourself the cast iron proof that you HAVE done <insert whatever achievement> and that by virtue of that success you are capable of continuing.

Once you have a few successes under your belt I've found that it gets easier to relax into those positive thought patterns - easier to reassure myself. Although I still checked Strava repeatedly when I'd done 10k as I couldn't quite believe i had actually done it!

Good luck, you can do it, we all can.

fitin50s2

Sounds like that trainer has some maturing to do. Perhaps someone who has never had to deal with some of the various harder aspects of life that can surface.

We are not robots/machines.

This is where it's at in my opinion....

JerSchmare wrote: »

I pretty much 100% disagree with your trainer. The people that make it happen stop bullish!ting around and get serious about work...long term. There is no goal or end game. Therefore, you have to make this work. You need birthday cake, pizza, ice cream and beer. Life is not just fitness and food. There's more than that. Learning how to train like a beast, eat like a king, and stay healthy is a balancing act. It called discipline. All the various pieces of life demand your attention and everything matters. Not just calories and fitness. Everything.

^^ 100% YES

DannyYMi54321

Thanks for responding, Machka9 - 400 KM will have to be a goal - I've done US (miles) centuries but never tried to go significantly beyond that.

JerSchmare - I see your point about "no goal" because making it a quest to "get to 180 lbs" or "a size 4" or "six pack abs" is ultimately short-term thinking. After you get there, then what? It's another kind of pressure entirely to "maintain". Maybe it's not about getting to the destination but enjoying the journey. Maybe that's not a good way of thinking about it. "Fitness" the concept is free for the taking if people have all of the right skills to take it for themselves. Obviously many don't, because the US, at least, is an extremely unfit society. "Fitness" the product is pricey. Alas, most "average" people don't have unlimited disposable imcome to spend on personal training, weight loss products and services, exercise equipment etc, or unlimited time to do it - so "the imdustry" has to show it's clients good enough results fast enougj to keep them as clients. That said, my guy doesn't advocate personally giving up things like cake, pizza, or beer either - he's says plan wisely, incorporate prudently. A slice of cake at grandma's birthday, of course. Having it once in a while as part of your work planned macros is ok. Starting to go from once every 2 weeks to weekly to twice a week is slipping. Buying and then sitting eating a whole cake in your car because you got in a big fight with your significant other is self-abuse.

@jenilla1 - your response is elegant in both its simplicity and specificity - it may sound strange to someone who hasn't gone through what I have. I attend a support group for adult survivors of child abuse, and everyone in there would understand what I mean here. I feel like some molecular biologist who has been trying to find some unknown specific molecule that will exactly fit into the receptor site on a cancer cell and starve it of some vital nutrient, or something like that, because now I think I understand why I have always been so incomsistent and so prone to always starting but never finishing.

My father very tightly controlled my family. Cut us off from as much outside contact as he could, cut my mother off from her family, didn't allow her to go anywhere without him without his permission, no phone calls, etc. And he enforced the rules with violence. I'm older, this was the 50s-80s, there was less awareness and more coverup. One night in summer when I was 14 or 15, my mother told him she had to take my older sister to get some back-to-school clothes, and he told them to go alone, that he would stay home with me. That never happened, literally, and it freaked everyone out, but it happened because his word was God's word or else. I hid in my room. A little while later he yelled at me to "get out here now" - he was "cleaning" guns at the kitchen table. For about an hour, he pinned me down at the business end of a loaded deer rifle and went on a ranting discourse about what a terrible pathetic fat f-word (I'm straight) stupid loser I was, I was a waste of his space and money and basically oxygen and how he should just kill me and reallyall of us because my mother, siblings and her family were all tainted againsted him, but he didn't want to go to prison ... along with a lot of other bizarre stuff, conspiracy theories about my mom's family etc. Needless to say, about 10 years later, dad ended up in the psych ward for about 6 months ... too bad it wasn't decades earlier, could have saved us all a lot of grief.

The concept of setting a goal and believing I can do it is alien to me, totally. My father said belittling, cruel and degrading things about my weight, looks, appearance, intelligence, lack of athletic ability, sexual orientation and alleged paternity (one big delusion was that my mother slept with as many as 20 men each and every day, 5 days a week, while he was at work) from the earliest I can remember, and all of that only stopped when I was 25-26 and he finally had psychiatric intervention - then he died not too many years after. I am programmed to believe that everything I try will fail, everything falls apart on me because I'm stupid and careless and lazy, that I don't deserve anything good in life, that the universe is cruel and wants to take me down. All his words, his voice, running through my mind 24/7/365, taking over and running the show while my true self sits shaking and cowering in the corner in fear of that monster, praying I can find some way to escape.

And to go along with my belief that failure is my only option, I also have the devestation he brought to my self-image/self-esteem. His voice again, "fat, pathetic, effiminate, weak, stupid, lazy". He set me up to be unable to recognize success. I still view myself that way, I view my life as a series of grave failures one after another, and I have often said that I am the lowest of the low and it would be a blessing to society if I were culled like a rabid dog. That is not the actual reality of my life, I donhave some things going for me - white collar professional career, two university degrees, one with a perfect 4.0 gpa, paid-off home, cars etc. But I can't see any of that, just that I am worthless and always will be. Believe me, as a child, I wanted to please him, both because I needed a real father, like any boy, and because I guess I hoped if I could finally maybe just ONCE not be such a complete screw-up I'd stop making him mad and he wouldn't hurt me/us anymore.

Default position all of my life on food/fitness (and a lot of other things):

I'll try ... but I know I'll fail. No matter how hard I try, it won't ever be good enough. I'm doomed to be punished forever. I deserve to be, I'm a bad man.

I know intellectually that that is all his voice, projecting his problems caused by his own mental illness and history of abuse (never confirned per se but deeply suspected that he was sexually molested for decades through adulthood by his own mother) onto me.

I'm not sure what it will take to evict him from my head once and for all. Realistically a good psychologist but at times it feels like I need to see if the Vatican can spare an exorcist for a couple of hours

jenilla1

Wow. You have been through some serious trauma. Have you tried therapy? You mentioned that "realistically a good psychologist" might be something you need. I'd look into that. It's possible you could be suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - which can be brought on by chronic exposure to extreme stress as a child. It makes me sad to think that the ghosts of your toxic childhood - the horrific people who both abused you and enabled your abuse - continue to control your life.

Clearly, you realize that you actually are a successful, worthy person; unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to FEEL it. I think that rationally you know that you're a good, valuable human being who deserves happiness, but the emotional side of you is still caught up in all the negative, false messages that were hammered into your brain all those years growing up. Those old thought patterns are like old habits - they're hard to break.

You would probably never think those negative thoughts (that you think about yourself) about another person who went through what you went through and came out as well as you did. You'd probably be pretty impressed and proud of them, wouldn't you? Have that same level of compassion for yourself. Look back at the kid that you once were and forgive that adorable little guy for any perceived flaws and weaknesses. (If you could, would you go back and save him? I think you would, because he's worthy of saving.) Then forgive your current self, too. You did what you had to do (including the negative self talk, neglecting your health, etc.) to cope.

Since you're talking about this, maybe it's a sign that it's time to kick that old crap to the curb and take your life back. One of the greatest gifts a person can have is the ability to love and respect oneself. Amazing things are possible when you have your own full support. You never learned how to do that. But I don't think it's ever too late to learn. Think about therapy.

daneejela

Maybe you can just try to control your eating for a one hour a day..for example commit to non eating from 7pm-8pm, all before and after you're free to do whatever you want, but in this 1 hour you won't eat no matter what
And do this for some period of time (for example month or two).

I'd expect that would be a good exercise of control over eating. It's hard to immediately gain control over eating 24hours/7days a week...so, I would start with small interval, and eventually increase it bit by bit.

When you see that you can control your eating consistently through prolonged period of time for that 1 hour a day, I think you will start to get that "I can do it" mindset.

amtyrell

I believe in small changes that become lifetime habits. So don't make it so hard you have to struggle evwry day. Make a small change and learn to stick qith it then make another and so on.