Beginner or Intermediate Program?

neilgib28

Hi folks - first time poster (go easy on me )...

A bit on my background to hopefully help answer my question........ Started losing weight/trying to get in shape in October 2016 following Mike Matthews Bigger Leaner Stronger program. Lifting four days / week (Push, Pull, Upper, Lower) in 4-6rep range at 80% of 1RM. Apart from vacations I haven't missed a session and I'm really pleased with my progress to date. Also been very religious on my calorie logging with MFP and getting my macro's right.

I started at 200lb and approx 27% BF and I'm now 154lb / 13%ish BF. I'm a 45year old male, 5ft10in tall. Ideally I would have liked to cut a little bit more fat, still got some 'stubborn' belly fat that is VERY slowly decreasing, BUT I now feel and look too thin for my frame, in some recent pictures my face looks very thin / gaunt. So I want to go for a clean bulk.

Onto the point of the question (finally, I hear you cry!!). Basically all of my lifting has been done whilst in deficit and therefore although my lifts have improved I certainly won't have built any/much muscle so far, so as I move towards a bulk do you think I would still benefit from sticking with a beginner type program (I looked at SL 5x5 but it would take about 7weeks to get to the weights I'm currently lifting, albeit with a higher volume) OR would I be better going for something more intermediate? I have ready through the excellent threads on different workouts and like the sound of the Texas Method..

Any advice would be great fully received!

not_a_runner

If your main goal is to gain muscle now, personally I wouldn't go with SL or Texas method. I would pick a program with more focus on hypertrophy rather than strength in the lower rep range. (Sure you'll gain some muscle doing the "big 3", but I think for optimal hypertrophy it's important to hit the smaller muscles with some accessories too.)

PHUL and PHAT are pretty popular ones for both strength/hypertrophy.

TR0berts

Is there a reason you don't want to do the BLS program anymore, since you indicated you like it? You don't need to follow his dietary advice.

Rusty740

The difference between beginner and intermediate programs is that beginner programs are generally designed to get you to increase the weights fast until you eventually plateau a lot and need a different kind of training, including high reps lower weight, hypertrophy/strength days or blocks of each designed to increase your strength to get you over those plateaus. Most people will benefit from both kinds if they haven't got about 1/2 (very rough) genetic potential. That's pretty rough but what I mean is if you can still do linear progression, stick with a linear progression until you can't do it anymore.

I'm thinking that since you have been training at a deficit, then while you've probably done a decent job of keeping the muscle while you lost weight, you haven't had the opportunity to actually build muscle in any substantive way.

I think you should just pick a program you like and go for it, you'll probably get the most out of a linear progression though.

As for starting out a low weights. I would do this when staring an exercise you haven't done, or haven't done in a while. This will give the body parts time to adjust to the new movement and it won't be a waste of your time.

neilgib28

TR0berts wrote: »

Is there a reason you don't want to do the BLS program anymore, since you indicated you like it? You don't need to follow his dietary advice.

I guess the reason I was thinking about a different program was that I have struggled to progress my big lifts on the 'standard' part of the program recently (but that could purely be down to being in deficit?), However every four weeks the program calls for a 'strength week' that just concentrates on doing the big lifts three times a week - ie. more akin to SL. During this time I seem to make more progress but don't seem able to carry it into the standard weeks (if that makes sense). Also BLS doesn't seem to get many recommendations on forums like this...
I may well just stick with BLS for the first couple of months on the bulk and see how it goes...

Rusty740

neilgib28 wrote: »

TR0berts wrote: »

Is there a reason you don't want to do the BLS program anymore, since you indicated you like it? You don't need to follow his dietary advice.

I guess the reason I was thinking about a different program was that I have struggled to progress my big lifts on the 'standard' part of the program recently (but that could purely be down to being in deficit?), However every four weeks the program calls for a 'strength week' that just concentrates on doing the big lifts three times a week - ie. more akin to SL. During this time I seem to make more progress but don't seem able to carry it into the standard weeks (if that makes sense). Also BLS doesn't seem to get many recommendations on forums like this...
I may well just stick with BLS for the first couple of months on the bulk and see how it goes...

What you're describing here can be attributed to your calorie deficit. You are doing fine on the strength blocks because they typically involve less volume and if you only do them for a week your recovery is good. Then when you get back on the normal program with plenty of volume, you struggle to recover due to the calorie deficit not being able to get enough glycogen back into your muscles and also build the muscle. It's like having a plugged fuel filter on your car. Stepping on the gas won't help.

I think you'll be fine once you switch to a surplus.

Chieflrg

What Rusty is saying.

You're problem has much to do with being in a deficit for a prolong time, than graduating to a intermediate program.

At your age/experience, I would bulk and run out the program until you are no longer a novice at least one of the big lifts.

I also strongly suggest staying away from SL and TM as written. They have way too much volume for someone in their 40's and are sub optimal compared to better programs out there.

neilgib28

Chieflrg wrote: »

What Rusty is saying.

You're problem has much to do with being in a deficit for a prolong time, than graduating to a intermediate program.

At your age/experience, I would bulk and run out the program until you are no longer a novice at least one of the big lifts.

I also strongly suggest staying away from SL and TM as written. They have way too much volume for someone in their 40's and are sub optimal compared to better programs out there.

Great inputs guys, thank you so much!
Can you give any advice on what program would be better for an old dude like me

ijsantos2005

I've heard good things about a HLM (Heavy, Light, Medium) template.

Rusty740

neilgib28 wrote: »

Chieflrg wrote: »

What Rusty is saying.

You're problem has much to do with being in a deficit for a prolong time, than graduating to a intermediate program.

At your age/experience, I would bulk and run out the program until you are no longer a novice at least one of the big lifts.

I also strongly suggest staying away from SL and TM as written. They have way too much volume for someone in their 40's and are sub optimal compared to better programs out there.

Great inputs guys, thank you so much!
Can you give any advice on what program would be better for an old dude like me

I don't know if what I'm doing is working, but what I've done is taken the 5 lifts from StrongLifts and turned them into a more hypertrophy based program. I still lift 3-4 times per week with the same ABAB structure. I do 5 sets of each with 10-12 reps at 60-75%. I'm careful not to overdo the volume, but I'm going to add back in strength by doing 5 sets of 3-5 reps at 85% or so (not sure I'll be able to do 5 sets but we'll see).

I'll do 2 wks hyp, 2 weeks str, 2 wks hyp, deload then 2 wks str, 2 wks hyp, 2 wks str deload, repeat.

I have limited equipment at home, but I'm 40 and I seem to be making good progress doing this. It's probably crap, but it's what I've got!