Barbell Row Hinging Problem

kevinf2380

I'm doing the Stronglifts workout and I'm finding when doing heavier weight on the barbell rows I'm having issues hinging right. The weight is not heavy enough to where I'm worried about my lower back or knees. Only lifting 65lbs at the moment to work on form. The problem is I can't seem to hinge so my chest is way over my knees. I find I'm either getting pulled towards the floor or using my lower back too much to hold the weight. I can do the movement but I can also tell I'm not getting the proper range and I'm sure I'm not using my back muscles like I should. My hamstrings have always been tights so I know that's part of the problem. Just wondering what others have done to resolve this.

TR0berts

1: Do you have the bar in the correct position? As in, ~9" off the floor? Or do you just have regular 10 lb plates on either side and on the floor? That's too low.

2: You don't necessarily need to do Pendlay rows - you can do "normal" barbell bent-over rows, if you want. Pendlay rows are what are prescribed by SL, but the other version is fine.

And, yeah - your lower back is gonna get used (primarily for stabilization) in either - moreso for Pendlay rows.

kevinf2380

Today I just did it with 2 10lb weights on the floor. I also usually do the "normal" style you mentioned. Many times I'll dead lift the weight to a standing position then slowly hinge myself until I get into position.

Gallowmere1984

I've been finding Kelly Starrett's techniques for busting loose hamstrings to be really helpful, after years of being a truck driver. Essentially, stretching is useless when you think of the density and strength of the hammies. As he put it "you're basically hanging by a steel cable and hoping that it will eventually stretch out".

Get on a hard surface (table, box, counter, high chair, whatever) with a lacrosse ball (a golf ball can work too, if you really want to hate life) under your hamstring. Roll around on top of that little bit of evil, and every time you find a painful spot, stop moving around, and extend and relax your leg repeatedly until that spot stops hurting, repeat until all spots are gone, or you tap out like an MMA fighter in an armbar. Pay special attention to the area near your crotch and butt, and those tend to be the worst offenders.

It's helped immensely with my deadlift setup and general leg flexibility.

kevinf2380

Sounds kind of like an advanced form of foam rolling.

Rusty740

I bet 65 lbs is a nice weight to work on form and it sounds like it will still be at least 60% 1RM so I wouldn't increase it too much until you get this form down. I don't really think your chest needs to be way over your knees so long as your back is bent over enough. I think bent knees or not is ok. The feeling of being 'pulled toward the floor' is about right. You know you're at your maximum bend when that happens, just keep that back neutral. I think as you get stronger, you'll be able to bend a bit more.

I find it's really tough to learn to activate the right back muscles instead of using my arms (biceps) to bring the bar up to my upper abdomen area. I now try to think of bringing the weight straight up with my triceps/elbow and bringing my elbows towards each other behind my back. You can get the same feeling by laying flat on your back and with your arms against your side, push your chest up by using your elbows.

Gallowmere1984

kevinf2380 wrote: »

Sounds kind of like an advanced form of foam rolling.

It basically is. The problem with foam rolling the hammies is that you're just not gonna accomplish much, because the roller hits too big of an area, and the hamstrings require a lot of pressure to affect much real change. Since you really can't apply more weight, reducing the area of applied pressure accomplishes the same thing.

canadianlbs

kevinf2380 wrote: »

Sounds kind of like an advanced form of foam rolling.

i think it's what gets called 'pin and stretch' and/or 'active release'. it really does work for me, but you might find a lacrosse ball a little too aggressive depending on how much muscle you have. you don't want to just bruise or crush the tissue. the idea is to just isolate sections of it by using the ball as a kind of cutoff point. and then put the isolated part through the rom it would normally use.

about rows, my trainer has been in business since who-knows-when, and he mentioned recently that i'm one of only a handful of people he's seen who seem to have just the right body proportions for teh form to come naturally.

not that i'm bragging :P just that apparently it's kind of awkward for just about everybody. i don't think you do really need to be way out 'in front' of your knees. it's more just that you want to be hinged back enough that pulling the bar doesn't yank you off balance, and 'out front' enough that you can do it without kneecapping yourself. i find that really planting my heels helps a lot with keeping my own balance with them.

Gallowmere1984

canadianlbs wrote: »

kevinf2380 wrote: »

Sounds kind of like an advanced form of foam rolling.

i think it's what gets called 'pin and stretch' and/or 'active release'. it really does work for me, but you might find a lacrosse ball a little too aggressive depending on how much muscle you have. you don't want to just bruise or crush the tissue. the idea is to just isolate sections of it by using the ball as a kind of cutoff point. and then put the isolated part through the rom it would normally use.

about rows, my trainer has been in business since who-knows-when, and he mentioned recently that i'm one of only a handful of people he's seen who seem to have just the right body proportions for teh form to come naturally.

not that i'm bragging :P just that apparently it's kind of awkward for just about everybody. i don't think you do really need to be way out 'in front' of your knees. it's more just that you want to be hinged back enough that pulling the bar doesn't yank you off balance, and 'out front' enough that you can do it without kneecapping yourself. i find that really planting my heels helps a lot with keeping my own balance with them.

Definitely this. I have always had similar issues described in the last paragraph, as I am built like some kind of weird inverse gorilla: long as hell arms and legs, stubby *kitten* torso. So in order for my center of gravity to be balanced and not have my knees in the way, I need to be hinged forward more than some would like to see. My deadlift form almost looks like a SLDL because of it. Tried sumo to compensate, but honestly, screw that noise. I pull better conventional, even if it looks "wrong" in the process.

kevinf2380

I'm sure the body thing is part of the problem and flexibility is huge as well. I can't touch my toes and have to do all I can to touch my socks. Thank you for all the comments and advice. I'll try the tennis ball thing and see how it goes then work my way up to a lacrosse or harder ball. Are you sitting on a kitchen type chair when doing this?

Gallowmere1984

kevinf2380 wrote: »

I'm sure the body thing is part of the problem and flexibility is huge as well. I can't touch my toes and have to do all I can to touch my socks. Thank you for all the comments and advice. I'll try the tennis ball thing and see how it goes then work my way up to a lacrosse or harder ball. Are you sitting on a kitchen type chair when doing this?

Kinda. I have a set of bar stools that I use. It just needs to be a hard surface that is high enough for your foot to be off the ground, so you can extend your leg and are able to twist it side to side when not extended. It also needs to be deep enough to be able to get the ball under all parts of the hamstring. That's why I love the stools: no back or arms to get in my way. For that matter, a kitchen counter or dresser would work fine too.