Which program next?
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misnomer1
Posts: 646 Member
I will be finishing SL5x5 soon. Just want to research what program to do next. Would be nice if I get 3-4 ideas to research and decide. Following are my basic criteria:
1. 3-4 days a week max.
2. Higher rep ranges than 5 (more focus on hypertrophy)
3. Compound exercises still being the main focus
4. Not more than 90 minutes per session
5. Not too complex in calculations
Thanks.
1. 3-4 days a week max.
2. Higher rep ranges than 5 (more focus on hypertrophy)
3. Compound exercises still being the main focus
4. Not more than 90 minutes per session
5. Not too complex in calculations
Thanks.
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Replies
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I will be finishing SL5x5 soon. Just want to research what program to do next. Would be nice if I get 3-4 ideas to research and decide. Following are my basic criteria:
1. 3-4 days a week max.
2. Higher rep ranges than 5 (more focus on hypertrophy)
3. Compound exercises still being the main focus
4. Not more than 90 minutes per session
5. Not too complex in calculations
Thanks.
I guess the question is what are your goals? How long have you been lifting? Are you still making gains?1 -
I personally switched to Wendler 5/3/1 (the newer revision from 'Beyond 5/3/1', and I do a longer cycle before deload weeks).
The final working sets are As Many Reps as Possible (AMRAP), although the actual number will vary. You could also do the 'Boring But Big' assistance sets, which are lower weight, higher repetitions and add a good amount of volume.
That would hit 3 or 4 of your 5 criteria; I say maybe 3 because 5/3/1 can be a bit complex, but it also has apps that take all the mental work out of it.
I do my main sets, Boring But Big sets and additional assistance work (curls, pullups etc) in about an hour.1 -
I tried Wendler's after SL5X5 and wasn't a fan. I switched to Layne Norton's PH3 and loved it.
Any of the intermediate plans in this thread are an option.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p11 -
Like what was said above, what level are you and what do you want mass? Lean? Same weight?0
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You know, you don't stop after 12 weeks of SL 5x5, right? You just keep adding weight as long as you can...1
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Like what was said above, what level are you and what do you want mass? Lean? Same weight?
Maintain weight at 77kg. Acc to my weight, I am intermediate level acc to symmetricstrength.com in pendlay rows, novice in others but should hit intermediate in a month.
I want to focus a bit less on strength and give a bit more importance to hypertrophy in the next program.
I will continue sl5x5 for a month more. I actually do 3x5 now because i dont have time to do 5x5 anymore. I take 3 sessions to master a weight in squats and OHP with perfect feel good form and i dont leave the gym happy anymore. I cant continue with same or higher intensity every session for a long time.You know, you don't stop after 12 weeks of SL 5x5, right? You just keep adding weight as long as you can...quiksylver296 wrote: »I tried Wendler's after SL5X5 and wasn't a fan. I switched to Layne Norton's PH3 and loved it.
Any of the intermediate plans in this thread are an option.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Thanks. Will look into it.brendanwhite84 wrote: »I personally switched to Wendler 5/3/1 (the newer revision from 'Beyond 5/3/1', and I do a longer cycle before deload weeks).
The final working sets are As Many Reps as Possible (AMRAP), although the actual number will vary. You could also do the 'Boring But Big' assistance sets, which are lower weight, higher repetitions and add a good amount of volume.
That would hit 3 or 4 of your 5 criteria; I say maybe 3 because 5/3/1 can be a bit complex, but it also has apps that take all the mental work out of it.
I do my main sets, Boring But Big sets and additional assistance work (curls, pullups etc) in about an hour.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer.0 -
@brendanwhite84 i am liking 5/3/1 with BoringButBig assistance for hypertrophy. Any way to add bicep, tricep work into the week? I also want to add barbell rows somewhere.
Also, is the five3one app by sarasoft apt for this?0 -
Update: i read about the new program, researched the variations and found an awesome app so i couldnt control the excitement. i started wendler 5/3/1 with boring but big 5x10 supplemental volume work, along with 2 more assistance exercises every session. 4 days a week program. I like the flexibility of the program because i can keep changing the assistance work depending on needs.
First session had 2 warm up bench sets, 3 main sets of 5, 5x10 BBB assistance sets plus 3 sets of rows (after 2 warmup sets) and 2 sets of chinups. 17 sets done in 40 minutes (half of sl5x5 lately) without having to make squats the centre of every session. Liking it so far. I hope sessions still remain less than 90mins 3 months down, and even if not i can still reduce the assistance work.2 -
Going from progression on a session by session basis to monthly with 5/3/1 seems non- efficient. If your novice linear is truely over I’d do something that has weekly. I went to a High Low Medium. Still a 3 day split whole body so not a big change.
Also Schoenfeld did a meta that agreed with other meta studies that rep ranges in the 8-12 are only 10-15% more effective at hypertrophy than lower reps. The lower rep programming on the other hand has a greater than 15% influence on strength gains. I am far more concerned with strength gains so this influences my choice in programming.1 -
Going from progression on a session by session basis to monthly with 5/3/1 seems non- efficient. If your novice linear is truely over I’d do something that has weekly. I went to a High Low Medium. Still a 3 day split whole body so not a big change.
Also Schoenfeld did a meta that agreed with other meta studies that rep ranges in the 8-12 are only 10-15% more effective at hypertrophy than lower reps. The lower rep programming on the other hand has a greater than 15% influence on strength gains. I am far more concerned with strength gains so this influences my choice in programming.
I agree that my strength gains will be suboptimal for the first 3-4 months. But Im ok with slow strength gains, doing it for fun not to compete. This program has both low rep strength plus higher rep volume work.1 -
Wendler's is a horrible program as written.
The problem lies in the volume, majority of it is too low intensity to drive adaptation for an intermediate lifter.
It doesn't matter if you compete or not. If your goal is strength, then why do a program that literally is wasting time when you could do a program that gives you way better results.
It's literally like dropping a weed wacker engine in a muscle car. Wendler's willl never give you the muscle or strength of the more optimal programs.3 -
Wendler's is a horrible program as written.
The problem lies in the volume, majority of it is too low intensity to drive adaptation for an intermediate lifter.
It doesn't matter if you compete or not. If your goal is strength, then why do a program that literally is wasting time when you could do a program that gives you way better results.
It's literally like dropping a weed wacker engine in a muscle car. Wendler's willl never give you the muscle or strength of the more optimal programs.
Im quite happy to start 5/3/1 with 5x10 BBB assistance work for more volume. Im happy to hit rep PRs rather than weight PRs.
Will let you know how it goes 6 months down. As i said earlier, i dont care about strength as long as there are some gains.
If strength was the most important to me, i would have eaten at surplus and continued milking stronglifts at 3x5.2 -
Wendler's is a horrible program as written.
The problem lies in the volume, majority of it is too low intensity to drive adaptation for an intermediate lifter.
It doesn't matter if you compete or not. If your goal is strength, then why do a program that literally is wasting time when you could do a program that gives you way better results.
It's literally like dropping a weed wacker engine in a muscle car. Wendler's willl never give you the muscle or strength of the more optimal programs.
Im quite happy to start 5/3/1 with 5x10 BBB assistance work for more volume. Im happy to hit rep PRs rather than weight PRs.
Will let you know how it goes 6 months down. As i said earlier, i dont care about strength as long as there are some gains.
If strength was the most important to me, i would have eaten at surplus and continued milking stronglifts at 3x5.
If you care about 10 rep PR's cool. Keep in mind 10 reps can easily be 12 reps if rest periods are longer. Not the case if you are doing 5 repsor less.
I've seen many many people who aren't geared like Wendler do the BBB and stall quickly and unfortunately for whatever reason depending on how they try to puzzle his pieces together.
Unfortunately volume at the wrong intensity is the issue people complain about since it won't drive adaptation for long np matter which rep scheme compared to other programs. Unless you're still have novice gains in the tank the gains are usually slow and disappointing.
Hope you get the results you're looking for regardless and stay healthy.
Good luck.3 -
Why do they take old workout programs from back in the day and Label it, market it, like it's some new invention. Oh, I do Stonglifts or Wendlers, whatever. I know, off topic, sorry. So, question to OP, looks like you're going for strength, not body building. Hook up with a power lifter, not a fitness instructor that can't lift. Draw from their knowledge and not one that just started or an internet lifter thats been alive for 5 minutes. Funny how people get a little bit of knowledge and 5 minutes later are an authority on the subject.1
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Wendler's is a horrible program as written.
The problem lies in the volume, majority of it is too low intensity to drive adaptation for an intermediate lifter.
It doesn't matter if you compete or not. If your goal is strength, then why do a program that literally is wasting time when you could do a program that gives you way better results.
It's literally like dropping a weed wacker engine in a muscle car. Wendler's willl never give you the muscle or strength of the more optimal programs.
Im quite happy to start 5/3/1 with 5x10 BBB assistance work for more volume. Im happy to hit rep PRs rather than weight PRs.
Will let you know how it goes 6 months down. As i said earlier, i dont care about strength as long as there are some gains.
If strength was the most important to me, i would have eaten at surplus and continued milking stronglifts at 3x5.
I do 5/3/1 for my main lifts and Steve Shaw's Massive Iron programming for hypertrophy work. I love the varying rep ranges in 5/3/1 and am constantly hitting PRs.1 -
Wendler's is a horrible program as written.
The problem lies in the volume, majority of it is too low intensity to drive adaptation for an intermediate lifter.
It doesn't matter if you compete or not. If your goal is strength, then why do a program that literally is wasting time when you could do a program that gives you way better results.
It's literally like dropping a weed wacker engine in a muscle car. Wendler's willl never give you the muscle or strength of the more optimal programs.
Im quite happy to start 5/3/1 with 5x10 BBB assistance work for more volume. Im happy to hit rep PRs rather than weight PRs.
Will let you know how it goes 6 months down. As i said earlier, i dont care about strength as long as there are some gains.
If strength was the most important to me, i would have eaten at surplus and continued milking stronglifts at 3x5.
If you care about 10 rep PR's cool. Keep in mind 10 reps can easily be 12 reps if rest periods are longer. Not the case if you are doing 5 repsor less.
I've seen many many people who aren't geared like Wendler do the BBB and stall quickly and unfortunately for whatever reason depending on how they try to puzzle his pieces together.
Unfortunately volume at the wrong intensity is the issue people complain about since it won't drive adaptation for long np matter which rep scheme compared to other programs. Unless you're still have novice gains in the tank the gains are usually slow and disappointing.
Hope you get the results you're looking for regardless and stay healthy.
Good luck.
Thanks. Do suggest some programs which you think are better, so i can think about them if 5/3/1 doesnt work.Why do they take old workout programs from back in the day and Label it, market it, like it's some new invention. Oh, I do Stonglifts or Wendlers, whatever. I know, off topic, sorry. So, question to OP, looks like you're going for strength, not body building. Hook up with a power lifter, not a fitness instructor that can't lift. Draw from their knowledge and not one that just started or an internet lifter thats been alive for 5 minutes. Funny how people get a little bit of knowledge and 5 minutes later are an authority on the subject.
I dont have access to powerlifters, just *kitten* gym instructors who think deadlifts are made to destroy your back and squatting with knees ahead of toes will make you a cripple. So i rely on books, youtube and generic programs from experienced people.0 -
nSuns is a 5/3/1 clone that uses weekly progression based on your 1+ set. Find on reddit. Calculator spreadsheets easy to find with Google.
Texas Method is a well respected program for intermediates but is rough if older. It’s a full body with higher intensity but lots of volume. Doing 5x5 squats and bench at 80-90 1rm would be a *kitten*.
Candito Training has a few intermediate programs for free. He is a very strong lifter that has always completed in raw natural feds. His programming would be optimized for a 20-something not on roids.
H/L/M heavy light medium is like Texas Method but the adaptation cycle is slightly different. I prefer it because my heavy day is after 2 days rest and fully recovered and eager to hit bigger weights.
I am not saying 5/3/1 isn’t good. I think monthly progression has its place. Just not right after novice progression. Also for me personally I need more intensity less volume but I think everyone responds differently and needs to find their own path.0 -
I didnt say Wendler's didn't work at all, I'm saying it is suboptimal as written and there are way better options for efficient results.Thanks. Do suggest some programs which you think are better, so i can think about them if 5/3/1 doesnt work.
The Bridge is a well written program, Candito has a program that is extremely well written as well. You can download both for free.
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