Bulk/cut vs recomp

me0231

I'm nearing my goal and I was wondering if someone could explain the differences to me. I see people recommending recomp when bf is still relatively high. Why not bulk and cut? Obviously not bulking at 500+ calories over maintenance but with just a couple of hundred or so that would lead to maybe a pound to pound of a half gain a month?

Looks like I'm headed for the dreaded skinny fat. I'm female, 5'11 and nearing 150 which is my goal weight. I have been lifting since last August doing strong lifts. I had a dexa done when I was 170 pounds and it came out at 39% bf. So even if I didn't lose any significant lean mass since I'm still well over 30%. I had sort of settled to recomp but I'm curious why a bulk/cut isn't recommended. Thanks

AnvilHead

Great read from Bret Contreras about it here: https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/

sardelsa

A lot of what you do is going to come down to your physique goals, your comfort level and how long you want to spend doing it. Many find recomp to be more of a safe option...however it is slow and progress can be hard to measure. It is not for me personally, as I prefer to see the results of bulk and cut and know exactly what I am doing.. but putting on weight can be very uncomfortable and mentally difficult. Alternatively what you have described would be a lean bulk, so less than 2lb gain per month. That is also a great option for someone, especially female who doesn't want to put on too much fat. I started out my second bulk that way but got antsy and frustrated due to slow progress and ended up upping my cals to 2lb per month.

In your case if you wanted to bulk, you would have to cut down to at least 20% bf (or ideally below) before you started.. that can take a lot of time which some may argue could be spent recomping. So really it is up to you

Packerjohn

AnvilHead wrote: »

Great read from Bret Contreras about it here: https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/

One thing that I have thought about when I read these bulk/cut vs recomp discussions is age. I'm older and IMO, as people get past maybe the mid 20's for the most part, responsibilities of a job, relationships and possibly kids make concentration on one's physique harder. Add in the greater likelihood of injures derailing training and you're more likely to be "stuck" in the middle of a bulk cycle when life happens.

I noticed Bret discusses the question of age in one of his responses to a post in the article

"Much appreciated Galen! And good call, I should have discussed age. I agree with you, older folks shouldn’t bulk and cut to much degree, it’s harder to lose the fat as you get older."

Bret doesn't elaborate in his response as to why it's harder, but given his background he knows the actual slowing of metabolism as we age is pretty minimal. I'd suggest it's the factors I mentioned.

rybo

That's a good article from Contreras. I've always been a fan of recomp more than bulk/cut cycles. I'm just a steady even minded person. The times when bulks are better is if you're young and taking advantage of the ability to pack on muscle easier. But for most everyday people, I think it's easier to get in a groove and recomp.

mom23mangos

rybo wrote: »

That's a good article from Contreras. I've always been a fan of recomp more than bulk/cut cycles. I'm just a steady even minded person. The times when bulks are better is if you're young and taking advantage of the ability to pack on muscle easier. But for most everyday people, I think it's easier to get in a groove and recomp.

I think it also has to do with your mindset. Like Sardelsa mentioned, if you want to see more drastic changes quickly a bulk/cut cycle may be for you. If you are OK with how you look, but wouldn't mind seeing improvements and think of fitness as a lifelong goal, it may make more sense to continue doing what you are doing and see how your body changes over time. You might want to get a follow up DEXA once you reach goal weight to see if your BF is still abnormally high for your weight. That might help you decide.

Davidsdottir

While I agree with the recomp route in general, the OP has a substantially high body fat percentage and would probably best be served continuing to eat in a modest deficit at the moment.

erickirb

Davidsdottir wrote: »

While I agree with the recomp route in general, the OP has a substantially high body fat percentage and would probably best be served continuing to eat in a modest deficit at the moment.

Agreed.

I would suggest a deficit of 250/day, 0.5lbs/week. OP, since you are new to lifting and have a relatively high bf%, there is a good chance you will gain a little muscle with a small deficit and adequate protein.

how much protein are you getting now?
How big is your current deficit?

me0231

Thanks for all the insights. I think my main thought is that I clearly need to build a lot of muscle mass, and I'm wondering if the lean bulk route would let me take advantage being a new lifter and pack on some muscle before going back into a deficit rather than the slow recomp process.

I've been in a deficit (with a couple of diet breaks) since last April and mentally I'm ready for a break. Although I might just eat flat out maintenance for a month or two and go back into a deficit. Good idea about repeating the dexa though to have actual numbers to work with before deciding. I should be at goal in a couple of weeks. I'm about at a 500 calorie deficit and eat 120g protein a day. As far as looks go, I like myself clothed haha I think my weight is ok for my height, but naked yeah there's still a lot of fat especially around my thighs.

cwolfman13

AnvilHead wrote: »

Great read from Bret Contreras about it here: https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/

This is a great article...

me0231 wrote: »

Thanks for all the insights. I think my main thought is that I clearly need to build a lot of muscle mass, and I'm wondering if the lean bulk route would let me take advantage being a new lifter and pack on some muscle before going back into a deficit rather than the slow recomp process.

I've been in a deficit (with a couple of diet breaks) since last April and mentally I'm ready for a break. Although I might just eat flat out maintenance for a month or two and go back into a deficit. Good idea about repeating the dexa though to have actual numbers to work with before deciding. I should be at goal in a couple of weeks. I'm about at a 500 calorie deficit and eat 120g protein a day. As far as looks go, I like myself clothed haha I think my weight is ok for my height, but naked yeah there's still a lot of fat especially around my thighs.

I'm personally not a big fan of the bulk and cut...I'm not a body builder...not going to be a body builder. The vast majority of people really should just be eating well and training...the rest takes care of itself. Personally, I think bulking is a bit of a fad at the moment.

At any rate, if you did decide to bulk, you don't want to do it at a higher BF%...you want to bulk from a pretty low BF%...10% or less for a male and I'd say sub 20% for a female. A big reason for this is hormones...at a lower BF% your hormones are such that you will put on more muscle and less fat...at a higher BF%, you're primed for more fat gains and less muscle gains because of your hormones.

If you want to take a mental break, just go to maintenance for a bit and start training if you haven't already.

IMO, re-comp...while I guess it can be a deliberate act, I've always viewed it more as a bi-product of eating well and training and your body just changing over time. I've never told myself, "I'm going to re-comp"...but my physique is much different now than it was 5+ years ago at the same weight...but I'm not trying to do anything other than eat well and train.

Davidsdottir

me0231 wrote: »

Thanks for all the insights. I think my main thought is that I clearly need to build a lot of muscle mass, and I'm wondering if the lean bulk route would let me take advantage being a new lifter and pack on some muscle before going back into a deficit rather than the slow recomp process.

I've been in a deficit (with a couple of diet breaks) since last April and mentally I'm ready for a break. Although I might just eat flat out maintenance for a month or two and go back into a deficit. Good idea about repeating the dexa though to have actual numbers to work with before deciding. I should be at goal in a couple of weeks. I'm about at a 500 calorie deficit and eat 120g protein a day. As far as looks go, I like myself clothed haha I think my weight is ok for my height, but naked yeah there's still a lot of fat especially around my thighs.

This is why decreasing the size of your deficit would be a good idea. Lift, eat at TDEE -250 cals, and then reexamine when your body fat percentage is lower.

mmapags

As some others have suggested, with your BF% you are not really a good candidate for a bulk. Eating at slight deficit, or maintenance, and training with weights would be a good strategy. And patience, lots of patience.

Tedo201

AnvilHead wrote: »

Great read from Bret Contreras about it here: https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/

Interesting article...

sardelsa

I think the reason why bulking has become popular, has to do with the society we live in...people want to see instant results. But it can backfire when then they don't do it properly, or have skewed expectations about it and cannot handle the fat gain and they freak out and spin their wheels. And then in terms of recomping.. some don't see results and then they get frustrated and give up because they don't realize how long it actually takes.

No matter which direction you take it (bulk/cut, recomp etc)... building your physique takes years and years of hard work and consistency. I always say, buckle up and enjoy the ride

rybo

IMO, re-comp...while I guess it can be a deliberate act, I've always viewed it more as a bi-product of eating well and training and your body just changing over time. I've never told myself, "I'm going to re-comp"...but my physique is much different now than it was 5+ years ago at the same weight...but I'm not trying to do anything other than eat well and train.

@cwolfman13 This all day. It's only here that I've ever heard the term recomp, and strategies for undertaking it.

billkansas

You can reward yourself soon by upping your food intake. Call it a "bulk" if it makes you feel better but bottom line is that you will be more likely to put on some muscle without the larger calorie deficit going on. I don't think you need to be calling yourself "skinny fat". Think about some strength goals to work on since you are about to put a big check-mark next to "hit my goal weight". Why don't you try upping your squat for example?

sijomial

rybo wrote: »

IMO, re-comp...while I guess it can be a deliberate act, I've always viewed it more as a bi-product of eating well and training and your body just changing over time. I've never told myself, "I'm going to re-comp"...but my physique is much different now than it was 5+ years ago at the same weight...but I'm not trying to do anything other than eat well and train.

@cwolfman13 This all day. It's only here that I've ever heard the term recomp, and strategies for undertaking it.

Agreed. Most people would just say they are "getting in shape" - but I suppose that doesn't should technical enough.....

In my 40+ years of training the language and fashions (PWO, protein shakers, Bosu balls, bizarre workout routines etc. etc.) have got more and more complex but it's still wrapped round the basics of training effectively and having a reasonable diet. And patience of course.

Packerjohn

sijomial wrote: »

rybo wrote: »

IMO, re-comp...while I guess it can be a deliberate act, I've always viewed it more as a bi-product of eating well and training and your body just changing over time. I've never told myself, "I'm going to re-comp"...but my physique is much different now than it was 5+ years ago at the same weight...but I'm not trying to do anything other than eat well and train.

@cwolfman13 This all day. It's only here that I've ever heard the term recomp, and strategies for undertaking it.

Agreed. Most people would just say they are "getting in shape" - but I suppose that doesn't should technical enough.....

In my 40+ years of training the language and fashions (PWO, protein shakers, Bosu balls, bizarre workout routines etc. etc.) have got more and more complex but it's still wrapped round the basics of training effectively and having a reasonable diet. And patience of course.

I'm in a similar situation and I agree. It's really a part of training effectively, but, I'd like to call it out separately, show up on a consistent basis. Someone working with moderate intensity several days a week consistently will trump someone that goes balls out for a week or 2, burns out, doesn't do anything for 2 months, then repeats the cycle.