What would happen to body fat & muscle if I only lifted (no cardio) under these conditions?...

TossaBeanBag
TossaBeanBag Posts: 458 Member
edited November 2014 in Health and Weight Loss
Questions:
Would muscle be lost, increase, or remain the same?
Would body fat decrease, increase or remain static?

Please use the following assumptions:

Subject:
Healthy adult male with testosterone in the high normal range.
Bodyfat 29%

Workout Regimen:
Moderately heavy lifting 8-12 reps (assuming no overtraining). Last reps would always be intense.
6 times per week/one rest day

Diet:
50% protein/30% carbs/20% fat

Daily Caloric Deficit After Daily activity: approximately 600.

Personal guesses:
The protein would be adequate to maintain muscle mass.
Gains in muscle mass would not occur given the caloric deficit.
Body fat would decrease at a rate of 1 lbs per week (6x600 deficit calories).




Replies

  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
    6x a week is excessive. As is 8-12 reps while in a deficit; strength reps are likely to be more beneficial and less tiring.

    Otherwise, who knows. I'm not a fortune teller. Do stuff, log religiously, monitor, adjust as needed.
  • TossaBeanBag
    TossaBeanBag Posts: 458 Member
    edited November 2014
    ana3067 wrote: »
    6x a week is excessive. As is 8-12 reps while in a deficit; strength reps are likely to be more beneficial and less tiring.

    Otherwise, who knows. I'm not a fortune teller. Do stuff, log religiously, monitor, adjust as needed.

    Darn, I really was looking for a fortune teller (not), or at least someone who may have lost body fat and kept their muscle instead of just losing weight and ending up a skinnier version of a once fatter self - something I am trying to avoid becoming. I am more interested in decreasing a body fat percentage.

    Thank you for giving it a shot. Saying exercising 6 days a week is excessive is totally subjective

    To that person who is losing fat and keeping their muscle, or is interested in such pursuits, for a little over a week, I have stayed around a 600 calorie deficit, lifted and did 45 minutes of cardio each day, but I lost a an equal amount of muscle and fat (if what the doctor's machine said was correct). Assuming I only dropped the cardio, I am thinking muscle would be maintained and only lose fat. What do you think? Might it work? Did it work for you?






  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
    jbach2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »
    6x a week is excessive. As is 8-12 reps while in a deficit; strength reps are likely to be more beneficial and less tiring.

    Otherwise, who knows. I'm not a fortune teller. Do stuff, log religiously, monitor, adjust as needed.

    Darn, I really was looking for a fortune teller (not), or at least someone who may have lost body fat and kept their muscle instead of just losing weight and ending up a skinnier version of a once fatter self - something I am trying to avoid becoming. I am more interested in decreasing a body fat percentage.

    Thank you for giving it a shot. Saying exercising 6 days a week is excessive is totally subjective

    To that person who is losing fat and keeping their muscle, or is interested in such pursuits, for a little over a week, I have stayed around a 600 calorie deficit, lifted and did 45 minutes of cardio each day, but I lost a an equal amount of muscle and fat (if what the doctor's machine said was correct). Assuming I only dropped the cardio, I am thinking muscle would be maintained and only lose fat. What do you think? Might it work? Did it work for you?

    6x a week is not subjectively overkill, it is definitely overkill. The only way it will not be too much for your body is if you are working each muscle only once or twice, e.g. body part split. Which, assuming you are a beginner, is totally not at all necessary and could likely make learning the exercises harder. And since you are basically describing working to failure, you are setting yourself up for burn out and injury, especially since you are eating at a deficit.

    Plenty of people here are actively losing fat. Most will still lose a tiny bit of muscle because it's not 100% foolproof.

    50% of calories from protein is also kind of excessive unless you calories are really low, in which case you will lose muscle anyways. 1g/lb of lean body mass is enough of a starting point, or 0.8-1g/total lb, which will be around or above the first method.

    As for 600 deficit, what is this coming from? Is this a 20% deficit? Are you arbitrarily pulling numbers from your butt? Did you estimate your maintenance needs?

    45 mins of cardio each day is also not necessary, especially if muscle maintenance is your goal. Some people can do it, most do not recommend it. Some cardio, sure. But daily? 45 minutes? usually doesn't jive well with strength training while in a deficit.

    Dropping the cardio could help. Or it could have no effect. Switching from hypertrophy rep range to strength rep range would likely help, because it will allow you to work your CNS and maintain strength/muscle. Hypertrophy rep range is better suited to maintenance or bulking phase when you can actually build muscle.

    I find it interesting that you assume I am not one of the people you are targeting in this thread, yet I am. And my answer is based on the fact that what works for one will not work for all of us, and that it's all about trial and error and being smart with training/dieting.
  • shaun603
    shaun603 Posts: 75
    edited November 2014
    jbach2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »
    6x a week is excessive. As is 8-12 reps while in a deficit; strength reps are likely to be more beneficial and less tiring.

    Otherwise, who knows. I'm not a fortune teller. Do stuff, log religiously, monitor, adjust as needed.

    Darn, I really was looking for a fortune teller (not), or at least someone who may have lost body fat and kept their muscle instead of just losing weight and ending up a skinnier version of a once fatter self - something I am trying to avoid becoming. I am more interested in decreasing a body fat percentage.

    Thank you for giving it a shot. Saying exercising 6 days a week is excessive is totally subjective

    To that person who is losing fat and keeping their muscle, or is interested in such pursuits, for a little over a week, I have stayed around a 600 calorie deficit, lifted and did 45 minutes of cardio each day, but I lost a an equal amount of muscle and fat (if what the doctor's machine said was correct). Assuming I only dropped the cardio, I am thinking muscle would be maintained and only lose fat. What do you think? Might it work? Did it work for you?






    If your looking to weight train then 45 min of cardio daily isn't going to do you any favors. Your being extremely vague on what you consider "moderately heavy lifting" with "8-12 reps". So, what the heck are doing? You can easily weight train 6 days a week if you target different muscle groups everyday so you can get adaquit rest/repair days.
  • harlequin0318
    harlequin0318 Posts: 415 Member
    Lifting is cardio - if you do it fast enough.
  • Lifting is cardio - if you do it fast enough.

    Touché
  • TossaBeanBag
    TossaBeanBag Posts: 458 Member
    ana3067 wrote: »
    jbach2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »
    6x a week is excessive. As is 8-12 reps while in a deficit; strength reps are likely to be more beneficial and less tiring.

    Otherwise, who knows. I'm not a fortune teller. Do stuff, log religiously, monitor, adjust as needed.

    Darn, I really was looking for a fortune teller (not), or at least someone who may have lost body fat and kept their muscle instead of just losing weight and ending up a skinnier version of a once fatter self - something I am trying to avoid becoming. I am more interested in decreasing a body fat percentage.

    Thank you for giving it a shot. Saying exercising 6 days a week is excessive is totally subjective

    To that person who is losing fat and keeping their muscle, or is interested in such pursuits, for a little over a week, I have stayed around a 600 calorie deficit, lifted and did 45 minutes of cardio each day, but I lost a an equal amount of muscle and fat (if what the doctor's machine said was correct). Assuming I only dropped the cardio, I am thinking muscle would be maintained and only lose fat. What do you think? Might it work? Did it work for you?

    6x a week is not subjectively overkill, it is definitely overkill. The only way it will not be too much for your body is if you are working each muscle only once or twice, e.g. body part split. Which, assuming you are a beginner, is totally not at all necessary and could likely make learning the exercises harder. And since you are basically describing working to failure, you are setting yourself up for burn out and injury, especially since you are eating at a deficit.

    Plenty of people here are actively losing fat. Most will still lose a tiny bit of muscle because it's not 100% foolproof.

    50% of calories from protein is also kind of excessive unless you calories are really low, in which case you will lose muscle anyways. 1g/lb of lean body mass is enough of a starting point, or 0.8-1g/total lb, which will be around or above the first method.

    As for 600 deficit, what is this coming from? Is this a 20% deficit? Are you arbitrarily pulling numbers from your butt? Did you estimate your maintenance needs?

    45 mins of cardio each day is also not necessary, especially if muscle maintenance is your goal. Some people can do it, most do not recommend it. Some cardio, sure. But daily? 45 minutes? usually doesn't jive well with strength training while in a deficit.

    Dropping the cardio could help. Or it could have no effect. Switching from hypertrophy rep range to strength rep range would likely help, because it will allow you to work your CNS and maintain strength/muscle. Hypertrophy rep range is better suited to maintenance or bulking phase when you can actually build muscle.

    I find it interesting that you assume I am not one of the people you are targeting in this thread, yet I am. And my answer is based on the fact that what works for one will not work for all of us, and that it's all about trial and error and being smart with training/dieting.

    Again, the assumption already stated in the OP was there was no over-training, and whether the 600 cal deficit came from my butt or yours is irrelevant. Whether you are a fortune teller or not is also irrelevant, too.

    Let's drop the exact number of calories making up the deficit and assume that there is just a deficit and that the deficit is not too much. That should make it easier for you. Assume also the protein, carbs, and fats are adequate, too. In your expert opinion, should this plan help a person minimize muscle loss and maximize fat loss?

    Rather than opening a new thread, I am sure I could have found someone who actually kept their muscle and lost fat rather than reducing them concomitantly and have just asked him/her some questions about their diet and exercise habits.

    Thanks for trying, I will just go that route. No need to waste your time responding to me. I shouldn't have started this thread without first searching for the answers, which I am sure others who have been successful have already been talking about. Thanks for trying to help.


  • TossaBeanBag
    TossaBeanBag Posts: 458 Member
    Lifting is cardio - if you do it fast enough.

    Totally true. I am just restricting the idea to steady state cardio - like staying at the anaerobic threshold for 45 minutes... endurance type of cardio. As long as our hearts are beating, everything is a cardio activity, like you say.
  • harlequin0318
    harlequin0318 Posts: 415 Member
    jbach2 wrote: »
    Lifting is cardio - if you do it fast enough.

    Totally true. I am just restricting the idea to steady state cardio - like staying at the anaerobic threshold for 45 minutes... endurance type of cardio. As long as our hearts are beating, everything is a cardio activity, like you say.

    But on a serious note - your protein/carb/fat ratio should be sufficient to maintain lean muscle mass, it all depends on what you body thinks of this ratio and caloric intake. So I support your personal guesses - but dont be surprised if you arent losing fat as fast as you would like. Change the ratio every so often, and change your workout every so often to keep your body guessing
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    Both would decrease.
  • TossaBeanBag
    TossaBeanBag Posts: 458 Member
    edited November 2014
    jbach2 wrote: »
    Lifting is cardio - if you do it fast enough.

    Totally true. I am just restricting the idea to steady state cardio - like staying at the anaerobic threshold for 45 minutes... endurance type of cardio. As long as our hearts are beating, everything is a cardio activity, like you say.

    But on a serious note - your protein/carb/fat ratio should be sufficient to maintain lean muscle mass, it all depends on what you body thinks of this ratio and caloric intake. So I support your personal guesses - but dont be surprised if you arent losing fat as fast as you would like. Change the ratio every so often, and change your workout every so often to keep your body guessing

    Thank you, harlequin0318. That is one assumption I really haven't questioned, yet: whether the ratios are right. I just thought if a person had enough protein, you will probably not lose muscle, but maybe too many calories in deficit will not stop the muscle loss. If dropping the steady state cardio (40 minutes) and just lifting does stop muscle loss, then I will definitely have to up the calories like you suggest. That would increase the protein, too. And, then, if that doesn't work, then I will have to adjust ratios. There is certainly a lot of tinkering to get this right, and when a person's weight changes, then it changes everything, again. Wow, thank you for such a constructive response! I really appreciate it. Thank you for your suggestions.
  • harlequin0318
    harlequin0318 Posts: 415 Member
    jbach2 wrote: »
    jbach2 wrote: »
    Lifting is cardio - if you do it fast enough.

    Totally true. I am just restricting the idea to steady state cardio - like staying at the anaerobic threshold for 45 minutes... endurance type of cardio. As long as our hearts are beating, everything is a cardio activity, like you say.

    But on a serious note - your protein/carb/fat ratio should be sufficient to maintain lean muscle mass, it all depends on what you body thinks of this ratio and caloric intake. So I support your personal guesses - but dont be surprised if you arent losing fat as fast as you would like. Change the ratio every so often, and change your workout every so often to keep your body guessing

    Thank you, harlequin0318. That is one assumption I really haven't questioned, yet: whether the ratios are right. I just thought if a person had enough protein, you will probably not lose muscle, but maybe too many calories in deficit will not stop the muscle loss. If dropping the steady state cardio (40 minutes) and just lifting does stop muscle loss, then I will definitely have to up the calories like you suggest. Wow, thank you for such a constructive response! I really appreciate it.

    Absolutely true that if you don't eat enough calories as a whole, you probably won't be able to prevent muscle loss :) It's a test & tune process
  • suzynam
    suzynam Posts: 14 Member
    Hmmm... I read it a lot but there is no peer reviewed data to support the idea that eating a lot of protein will preserve muscle mass while dieting.

    I think you have to accept that there will be some muscle loss if you are running a calorie deficit.

    Are you maintaining or building strength? My guess, based on nothing, would be that you aren't, unless you are a relative beginner.