Muscle Failure Question

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KDHILSON
KDHILSON Posts: 13
in Fitness and Exercise
I worked hard at the gym the day before yesterday, Lot's and Lots of cardio. 30 mins on the elliptical, 15 mins on abs, then the stationary bike. My muscles had a good clean work out and I went home, drank water, ate a nice dinner, etc. Yesterday I woke up and my muscles were still very fatigued. When I went to the gym it felt like I was still in muscle failure from the day before, like I had already completed reps. I understand soreness and things of that nature but I wasn't sore, my muscles were tired. I understand that I probably should have taken a day off for recovery after such a taxing workout, but do you think maybe I'm deficient on electrolytes or something. I drink plenty of water but try to avoid sports drinks because of the sugar and empty calories. A friend said, raisins, for potassium. What do you think?

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  • geekyjock76
    geekyjock76 Posts: 2,720 Member
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    Electrolytes are important, but one mineral in particular which is vital to muscular contraction is calcium - without it, muscular contraction is impossible. If you are providing yourself with ample recovery time, you could look in to that. You also want to ensure you are replenishing your muscle glycogen stores between workouts if you are draining your body of it. Additionally, it can take between 12 to 22 hours to fully replenish glycogen stores depending on the carbohydrate source (low glycemic vs high) and individual.
  • KDHILSON
    KDHILSON Posts: 13
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    Geekyjock: I only understood about half of what you just said. :huh: However, I am not a big dairy fan (lactose intolerance) :sick: so the only major source of calcium I get is from cheese, which I have had to cut down on to make this weight loss thing work. Would a multi-vitamin or recovery drink help? I find it hard to sit out today, feeling guilty as we speak, :sad: but I know if I am pushing muscles that are too fatigued to go at the pace I am used to, I am setting myself up for injury. Drank some propel zero, digested a couple artificial electrolytes, getting ready to drink a Naked, loaded with Vits and Mins and 800 mg of Potassium (but 280 cals!!) Any suggestions for a consistent staple that will prevent me from being here again?
  • theodus
    theodus Posts: 13 Member
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    How much protein are you getting daily? If you're working your muscles to the point of fatigue, you're going to need protein to build them back up. If you haven't been getting very much protein, I'd recommend including some more lean meats in your diet - chicken, fish, etc.
  • KDHILSON
    KDHILSON Posts: 13
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    Usually pretty close to my daily allotment, if not a couple over. why?
  • theodus
    theodus Posts: 13 Member
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    If you're exhausting the muscle, you'll probably need more than the myfitnesspal daily allotment. I can't be sure in your case, but I know that my protein ratio needs to be about double what myfitnesspal recommends for me. Everyone is different, so I wouldn't recommend you take it that far, but consider increasing your protein a bit and talking to a nutritionist.
  • Goal_Line
    Goal_Line Posts: 474 Member
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    I find it hard to sit out today, feeling guilty as we speak

    I have days where my legs feel dead. I think it is important to listen to your body and rest when it needs it. But I also go through the "guilt" - When this happens I go on 30 minute walk - low intensity, but still something. Or I'll do an upper body lift and leave the legs out of it.
  • KDHILSON
    KDHILSON Posts: 13
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    Theodus: Do you still lose wait increasing your protein? I don't feel much different but I have cut my body fat percentage down from 31% to 25% in 3 weeks. I'm assuming soon I will see a change, but what I don't want to do is raise my intake and stop losing weight. More importantly I don't want to hurt myself. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
  • theodus
    theodus Posts: 13 Member
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    And if calcium is an issue, there are plenty of calcium fortified milk substitutes. I like almond milk. Maybe give that a try as well.
  • Goal_Line
    Goal_Line Posts: 474 Member
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    Usually pretty close to my daily allotment, if not a couple over. why?

    in my experience MFP doesn't give enough protean if you are working hard, I bumped mine to 25% which works out to 0.75 to 1.0 grams per body weight.
  • Halleeon
    Halleeon Posts: 309 Member
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    While watching one of Jamie Eason's video's, she talked about drinking a protein drink to supplement, before, during and after a workout as there is a 30 minute window in which the muscles have post workout to repair (while getting maximum usage of the protein...not meaning they don't repair after 30 minutes.) Maybe watch some her videos and hear what she said for yourself as I am doing a **** job of relaying the quote, haha.

    The other thing I would say, is I know for me...my Vitamin D is mad low. I take supplements for that everyday. I know that if the Vitamin D is low, I'm going to have trouble with getting the calcium I need (I also take this in pill form.) So maybe get your Vit D levels checked and have your Dr. recommend a good vit. of both?
  • Goal_Line
    Goal_Line Posts: 474 Member
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    Theodus: Do you still lose wait increasing your protein?

    I sure did!
  • theodus
    theodus Posts: 13 Member
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    I second the resting comment. But, yes, I definitely still lose weight. Don't go over the myfitnesspal daily allotment for calories - just lower the amount of calories that come from fat and carbohydrates a little, and increase the calories from protein to compensate. Protein is measured in calories, just like carbs, fat, or alcohol.

    Protein = 4 calories per gram
    Carbs = 4 calories per gram
    Fat = 9 calories per gram
    Alcohol = 7 calories per gram
  • Halleeon
    Halleeon Posts: 309 Member
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    I also lose weight and I prioritize protein and always go over what MFP recommends now. I eat probably double, maybe triple the amount of protein they suggest.

    Someone shared this calculator with me and that is what I am going by.

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    How intense was that cardio?

    If well above being able to carry on a conversation without being breathless, then you were high in the carb burning state.

    If you have had several days of that type of activity, then the limited carb stores may not be getting replenished from your diet.
    Ending up starting a day with little stores to use if any, and going right into muscle tear-down mode to convert to glucose. AKA the "wall" that recreational marathoners hit when going out too fast.

    Your diary isn't open, but here's the math to look at.

    Get estimate of calories burned on all your cardio.
    If intense, around 10 cal/min, then good 75% of those calories are carb's.
    So say if you burned 800 total, then 600 was carbs burned just for that activity.

    Rest of the day is probably 35%, so take your MFP estimated daily maintenance x 35%, perhaps 1800 total, so 630 carb burn there.

    So does your diet provide 1230 carbs in the time between workouts to replenish those limited glucose stores?
    That's 308 grams.

    If it doesn't, and you do an intense level of decent time daily, your muscles were empty of energy. Your liver would have had upwards of 400-450 to provide depending on when your last meal was.

    And burning off muscle to provide glucose conversion is no good, since you'd probably like your muscle.

    So just do the math and see how close you are to the potential of causing that problem.
  • ncsjodi
    ncsjodi Posts: 102 Member
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    After a heavy strength workout, I always drink a protein shake to replenish. And definitely plan to take a day off between strength workouts. Your muscles need a day to repair the microtears you made while lifting!
  • lynheff
    lynheff Posts: 393 Member
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    Potatoes are a great source of K+ and lower in calories cup for cup than raisins. There are some sports drinks without calories and sugar if you really need them but that would take really major exercise with lots of sweating. Usually that kind of electrolyte imbalance would show up as muscle cramps, light headedness, etc. Hope that helps
  • alexveksler
    alexveksler Posts: 409 Member
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    I recently made a change in my workout routing and it seems working for me.

    Before: I did 1 hour of cardio. Followed by a single weight exercise. (chest or back or shoulder...)

    Now: I do 1 set of 30 min cardio. Then I stop and do a weight lifting. Then followed by another 30 min cardio. BUT... The difference is I get good rest between cardio and able to complete workout with another set of weight lifting.

    AND, I alternate pushing and pulling exercises every day, which allow my muscle groups to re-generate from fatigue. Another words one day I do pushing(chest and shoulder or chest and triceps) and the next day I do pulling(back, biceps)
  • KDHILSON
    KDHILSON Posts: 13
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    Goal_Line: Do you do anything extra to help your muscles out besides resting?
  • KDHILSON
    KDHILSON Posts: 13
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    haybales: I am a math idiot. Layman's terms please. I'd really like to do the calculations but you lost me at "estimate of burning cals in cardio." I usually average between 400-600 cals burned at the gym in an hour. 30 mins of that hour and approximately 300 give or take are straight cardio on the elliptical. The rest are abs and weight training with the occasional walk or bike ride. I try to do that at least 4 times a week. With 1200 cals to burn a day. I was doing well when I was going every other day but I started going every day.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    haybales: I am a math idiot. Layman's terms please. I'd really like to do the calculations but you lost me at "estimate of burning cals in cardio." I usually average between 400-600 cals burned at the gym in an hour. 30 mins of that hour and approximately 300 give or take are straight cardio on the elliptical. The rest are abs and weight training with the occasional walk or bike ride. I try to do that at least 4 times a week. With 1200 cals to burn a day. I was doing well when I was going every other day but I started going every day.

    Are you eating more now that you are doing more?

    So you know your daily goal has a deficit built in to it already - with NO exercise expected or included.

    If you exercise hard (and you are), and if you exercise hard more now, you need to eat more now.

    So weight lifting is total carb burn during the lifts, it's anaerobic, that's what that means. But you also don't burn as much as the HRM would indicate.

    So probably burning actually 1000, lets say 70% carbs easily since 10 cal/min on the cardio.
    700 calories worth of carbs being used by just exercise.

    Your daily activity without exercise lets say underestimated at 1500 calories burned (but probably more), so 35% carbs for that.
    525 calories worth of carbs by your daily activity and sleeping.

    Do you eat 1225 calories worth of carbs daily, on avg, on workout days, or within 24hrs of workout?

    This is the reason why you eat back exercise calories to keep your already included deficit at a reasonable level, otherwise you are missing out on replenishing the limited glucose stores all too easily.

    And that has bad consequences that causes the same effect as dieting with big deficit and no heavy lifting - loss of LBM.

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