Building muscle on a calorie deficit.
GnochhiGnomes
Posts: 348 Member
Is it possible? I've seen so many conflicting views on this and want to see any extra information that MFP'ers can provide.
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Replies
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You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.0
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You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
What he said. You can lose fat, therefore exposing a leaner look, by cutting, i.e. reducing calories or eating at a calorie deficit. You cannot GAIN muscle. You can preserve most of what you already have if you continue lifting even during a deficit.0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).0 -
Bump.0
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The way I understand (and this is probably a gross oversimplification, so correct m if I'm wrong) it is that fat cannot be converted into muscle. When you weight train on a deficit, you will lose fat and expose muscle, leading to a leaner figure, but you will not *add* muscle mass. To add muscle mass you need excess energy, which has to come from your food.
I'm no expert, but that's how I understand it.0 -
Kind of going off on a tangent so I apologize for that, but I'm a big fan of The Biggest Loser (not sure how that's regarded in the health and fitness world though) and some contestants do actually build muscle (I remember one woman putting on 11 lbs of muscle in 3 or so months, earlier in the season it said women only ate a net of 1200-1500 calories)... is this because they're so incredibly out of shape or what? Based on what I've read here, you can do it if you're a newbie who's never done any kind of serious strength training before, but it still won't be a lot. I would consider 11 lbs a lot though... lol0
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You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.
1. Work/tension.
2. Building blocks (protein)
3. Energy.
and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
4. Rest.
If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.
People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.
Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.
Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.
I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat.
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There is an exception to the rule if you are obese and newly starting weight training you can build some muscle but for the most part what others have said you will lose fat and can maintain lean body mass (underlying muscle will finally be seen) Best of Luck..0
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what are we bumping, wasn't it covered?
Eat at a slight deficit to retain as much muscle as possible while losing fat THEN carefully adjust calories to be at a slight surplus after that in order to continue to progress on your lifts. Or to make the best gains, eat at a significant surplus and remove any excess fat in another "cutting" phase down the road. Rinse and Repeat as needed.0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
Weight loss isn't linear.. You won't lose the same amount every week.
Those people may lose a bunch of inches and then suddenly lose 5 pounds for no reason.
Or they could not be eating in a deficit even though they think they are.
Or they could be retaining water as the muscles heal themselves.
Or their are a million other reasons why people lose inches but not weight.. and I can guarantee you that it's not because of muscle being built.0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.
1. Work/tension.
2. Building blocks (protein)
3. Energy.
and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
4. Rest.
If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.
People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.
Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.
Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.
I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat.
Yeah I'm not sure if I'm losing fat or muscle so I'm a bit frightened. I have a BF% measurer and apparently I lost 1.7% BF this month and lost 3.8kg. I also don't use free weight but only the weight machines..
If its unusual genetics then why do so many people lose inches and not weight sometimes on a calorie deficit? It seems like a very common thing rather than uncommon. :indifferent:0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
Weight loss isn't linear.. You won't lose the same amount every week.
Those people may lose a bunch of inches and then suddenly lose 5 pounds for no reason.
Or they could not be eating in a deficit even though they think they are.
Or they could be retaining water as the muscles heal themselves.
Or their are a million other reasons why people lose inches but not weight.. and I can guarantee you that it's not because of muscle being built.
Ok.0 -
Thanks for all the responses, but you've crushed my hope of being able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. :grumble:0
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Yeah I'm not sure if I'm losing fat or muscle so I'm a bit frightened. I have a BF% measurer and apparently I lost 1.7% BF this month and lost 3.8kg. I also don't use free weight but only the weight machines..
If its unusual genetics then why do so many people lose inches and not weight sometimes on a calorie deficit? It seems like a very common thing rather than uncommon. :indifferent:
You're right in that it is common. The conclusion that they must be building muscle mass is one possibility, but it doesn't appear to be likely.0 -
Yeah I'm not sure if I'm losing fat or muscle so I'm a bit frightened. I have a BF% measurer and apparently I lost 1.7% BF this month and lost 3.8kg. I also don't use free weight but only the weight machines..
If its unusual genetics then why do so many people lose inches and not weight sometimes on a calorie deficit? It seems like a very common thing rather than uncommon. :indifferent:
You're right in that it is common. The conclusion that they must be building muscle mass is one possibility, but it doesn't appear to be likely.
I've just read one article explaining that its a common phenomenon in overweight people who start strength training.
The article for anyone who is interested: http://muscleevo.net/calorie-deficit/0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.
1. Work/tension.
2. Building blocks (protein)
3. Energy.
and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
4. Rest.
If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.
People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.
Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.
Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.
I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat.
The first 2 responses are so wrong. The dude above(EvanKeel) put it pretty well though ....
You can build muscle on a calorie deflect just make sure you are getting allot of protein to help the muscles rebuild. Your body already has a "surplus" of energy to help the muscles rebuild. What happens when you tear muscle is your body looks for the closest source of energy to help rebuild it ... which is the fat surrounding the muscles...
You may need a surplus of calories if say you are already small and want to build muscle ( skinny guy problem )...0 -
i would think that once you lose your fat and you get to your comfortable weight (or the weight that your body wants you to be at) you would just take in enough calories to maintain your weight to build muscle. but i'm not sure about this really because i'm trying so many different things right now to build muscle.0
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Generally speaking you can build small amounts of muscle in a deficit if you fall into one of the below groups;
New to lifting
Coming back to lifting after a prolonged layoff
Obese
Using steroids0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.
1. Work/tension.
2. Building blocks (protein)
3. Energy.
and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
4. Rest.
If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.
People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.
Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.
Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.
I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat.
The first 2 responses are so wrong. The dude above(EvanKeel) put it pretty well though ....
You can build muscle on a calorie deflect just make sure you are getting allot of protein to help the muscles rebuild. Your body already has a "surplus" of energy to help the muscles rebuild. What happens when you tear muscle is your body looks for the closest source of energy to help rebuild it ... which is the fat surrounding the muscles...
You may need a surplus of calories if say you are already small and want to build muscle ( skinny guy problem )...
The first two responses aren't wrong.. and for the record, yours is wrong too.
If you are obese or new to training, then you will gain a little bit of muscle.. but it won't be much and the results stop pretty quick.
Once you get over that initial hump, you need a surplus of calories to build muscle.. Muscle tissue isn't built out of protein and fat alone. It takes energy to build muscle, which come from excess calories. if you are eating just enough to sustain life, then your body isn't going to be focused on building muscle no matter how much protein you pump into it.0 -
You can build muscle on a MODERATE deficit, but it involves a fair bit of training volume, very strict nutrition timing, and a high protein diet. If you're new to lifting or an athlete returning from the off season, you can easily put on muscle while losing fat. Once the "Honeymoon" phase is over though, it is not easy to do.
Your best bet is to attempt to maintain lean mass while losing weight... Which can be accomplished with some smart strength training and diet choices. And if you get lucky enough to build while doing that, then great! Just don't be disappointed if you only maintain. Many people on MFP are in such a headlong rush to lose weight that they don't care whether it's fat or muscle... if you overdo the cardio and don't get the proper nutrition, then up to 30% of the loss can easily be muscle mass.
So far I've managed to stay within +/- 0.5 lbs LBM while losing fat with this approach. It's taken me 9 weeks to lose just over 16 lbs, but it's ALL fat loss. I measure BF% using a scale with that capability... it cost about $50 but was a worthwhile investment.
Edit: OP you're going to get all of the same conflicting views here as anywhere else. Many people assume that what holds true for them holds true for everyone. I'm guilty myself occasionally, but try to back up anything I say with lots of reading. 0 -
Generally speaking you can build small amounts of muscle in a deficit if you fall into one of the below groups;
New to lifting
Coming back to lifting after a prolonged layoff
Obese
Using steroids
This ^^^^
If none of this applies to you, then you probably can't but really, it doesn't matter? It's just not critical to grow new muscle tissue. You can develop what you have. It'll get a little bigger, a lot stronger and you'll look and feel a lot better. So, what does it really matter if you grow new muscle fibers or not? Do you have a goal to grow a lot of new muscle fiber for some reason?
If not, stay at it. You'll be glad you did.0 -
Generally speaking you can build small amounts of muscle in a deficit if you fall into one of the below groups;
New to lifting
Coming back to lifting after a prolonged layoff
Obese
Using steroids
What he said... I went from 19.7% body fat to 16.3% while maintaining about the same weight on a deficit and lost alot of inches. I was off lifting for a while so I had the "prolonged layoff". I gained a freakin lot of muscle. AND I did it on a 500-1000 calorie deficit with little to no protein.
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And more of THIS.Generally speaking you can build small amounts of muscle in a deficit if you fall into one of the below groups;
New to lifting
Coming back to lifting after a prolonged layoff
Obese
Using steroids
This ^^^^
If none of this applies to you, then you probably can't but really, it doesn't matter? It's just not critical to grow new muscle tissue. You can develop what you have. It'll get a little bigger, a lot stronger and you'll look and feel a lot better. So, what does it really matter if you grow new muscle fibers or not? Do you have a goal to grow a lot of new muscle fiber for some reason?
If not, stay at it. You'll be glad you did.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Definitely possible while one is on the juice. All natural, you've gotta be a genetic freak.0
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You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.
1. Work/tension.
2. Building blocks (protein)
3. Energy.
and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
4. Rest.
If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.
People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.
Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.
Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.
I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat.
The first 2 responses are so wrong. The dude above(EvanKeel) put it pretty well though ....
You can build muscle on a calorie deflect just make sure you are getting allot of protein to help the muscles rebuild. Your body already has a "surplus" of energy to help the muscles rebuild. What happens when you tear muscle is your body looks for the closest source of energy to help rebuild it ... which is the fat surrounding the muscles...
You may need a surplus of calories if say you are already small and want to build muscle ( skinny guy problem )...
No they are not.0 -
And more of THIS.Generally speaking you can build small amounts of muscle in a deficit if you fall into one of the below groups;
New to lifting
Coming back to lifting after a prolonged layoff
Obese
Using steroids
This ^^^^
If none of this applies to you, then you probably can't but really, it doesn't matter? It's just not critical to grow new muscle tissue. You can develop what you have. It'll get a little bigger, a lot stronger and you'll look and feel a lot better. So, what does it really matter if you grow new muscle fibers or not? Do you have a goal to grow a lot of new muscle fiber for some reason?
If not, stay at it. You'll be glad you did.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
And yet more of THIS0 -
You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
Why is this?
I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.
1. Work/tension.
2. Building blocks (protein)
3. Energy.
and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
4. Rest.
If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.
People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.
Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.
Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.
I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat.
The first 2 responses are so wrong. The dude above(EvanKeel) put it pretty well though ....
You can build muscle on a calorie deflect just make sure you are getting allot of protein to help the muscles rebuild. Your body already has a "surplus" of energy to help the muscles rebuild. What happens when you tear muscle is your body looks for the closest source of energy to help rebuild it ... which is the fat surrounding the muscles...
You may need a surplus of calories if say you are already small and want to build muscle ( skinny guy problem )...
Other than beginner gains, obesity, or gear you cannot build new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. It's just no biologically possible. You have to have more energy in your body than you are burning in order to build tissue whether it's fat or muscle.
Why is this hard for you to comprehend?0 -
Even on steroids growing muscle in a calorie deficit is not even something one should even dream about. People who are cutting for an event happen to use them to prevent muscle loss and not gain muscle while losing fat. These are two different types of goals. that should be kept that way. I been around people who used some pretty decent amounts enough to grow while eating 4500-5000 clean calories and they looked the same almost.0
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