Building muscle on a calorie deficit.

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GnochhiGnomes
GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Is it possible? I've seen so many conflicting views on this and want to see any extra information that MFP'ers can provide.
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Replies

  • SyStEmPhReAk
    SyStEmPhReAk Posts: 330 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.
  • kdiamond
    kdiamond Posts: 3,329 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    What he said. You can lose fat, therefore exposing a leaner look, by cutting, i.e. reducing calories or eating at a calorie deficit. You cannot GAIN muscle. You can preserve most of what you already have if you continue lifting even during a deficit.
  • GnochhiGnomes
    GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    Why is this?

    I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).
  • GnochhiGnomes
    GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
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    Bump.
  • NaurielR
    NaurielR Posts: 429 Member
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    The way I understand (and this is probably a gross oversimplification, so correct m if I'm wrong) it is that fat cannot be converted into muscle. When you weight train on a deficit, you will lose fat and expose muscle, leading to a leaner figure, but you will not *add* muscle mass. To add muscle mass you need excess energy, which has to come from your food.

    I'm no expert, but that's how I understand it.
  • sarah692
    sarah692 Posts: 136 Member
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    Kind of going off on a tangent so I apologize for that, but I'm a big fan of The Biggest Loser (not sure how that's regarded in the health and fitness world though) and some contestants do actually build muscle (I remember one woman putting on 11 lbs of muscle in 3 or so months, earlier in the season it said women only ate a net of 1200-1500 calories)... is this because they're so incredibly out of shape or what? Based on what I've read here, you can do it if you're a newbie who's never done any kind of serious strength training before, but it still won't be a lot. I would consider 11 lbs a lot though... lol
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    Why is this?

    I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).

    I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.

    1. Work/tension.
    2. Building blocks (protein)
    3. Energy.
    and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
    4. Rest.

    If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.

    People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.

    Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.

    Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.

    I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat. :)
  • awisegirl84
    awisegirl84 Posts: 82 Member
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    bump
  • SwimTheButterfly
    SwimTheButterfly Posts: 265 Member
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    bump
  • CyberEd312
    CyberEd312 Posts: 3,536 Member
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    There is an exception to the rule if you are obese and newly starting weight training you can build some muscle but for the most part what others have said you will lose fat and can maintain lean body mass (underlying muscle will finally be seen) Best of Luck..
  • shakew8
    shakew8 Posts: 9
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    what are we bumping, wasn't it covered?

    Eat at a slight deficit to retain as much muscle as possible while losing fat THEN carefully adjust calories to be at a slight surplus after that in order to continue to progress on your lifts. Or to make the best gains, eat at a significant surplus and remove any excess fat in another "cutting" phase down the road. Rinse and Repeat as needed.
  • dad106
    dad106 Posts: 4,868 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    Why is this?

    I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).

    Weight loss isn't linear.. You won't lose the same amount every week.

    Those people may lose a bunch of inches and then suddenly lose 5 pounds for no reason.

    Or they could not be eating in a deficit even though they think they are.

    Or they could be retaining water as the muscles heal themselves.

    Or their are a million other reasons why people lose inches but not weight.. and I can guarantee you that it's not because of muscle being built.
  • GnochhiGnomes
    GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    Why is this?

    I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).

    I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.

    1. Work/tension.
    2. Building blocks (protein)
    3. Energy.
    and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
    4. Rest.

    If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.

    People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.

    Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.

    Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.

    I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat. :)

    Yeah I'm not sure if I'm losing fat or muscle so I'm a bit frightened. I have a BF% measurer and apparently I lost 1.7% BF this month and lost 3.8kg. I also don't use free weight but only the weight machines..

    If its unusual genetics then why do so many people lose inches and not weight sometimes on a calorie deficit? It seems like a very common thing rather than uncommon. :indifferent:
  • GnochhiGnomes
    GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    Why is this?

    I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).

    Weight loss isn't linear.. You won't lose the same amount every week.

    Those people may lose a bunch of inches and then suddenly lose 5 pounds for no reason.

    Or they could not be eating in a deficit even though they think they are.

    Or they could be retaining water as the muscles heal themselves.

    Or their are a million other reasons why people lose inches but not weight.. and I can guarantee you that it's not because of muscle being built.

    Ok.
  • GnochhiGnomes
    GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
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    Thanks for all the responses, but you've crushed my hope of being able to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. :grumble:
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
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    Yeah I'm not sure if I'm losing fat or muscle so I'm a bit frightened. I have a BF% measurer and apparently I lost 1.7% BF this month and lost 3.8kg. I also don't use free weight but only the weight machines..

    If its unusual genetics then why do so many people lose inches and not weight sometimes on a calorie deficit? It seems like a very common thing rather than uncommon. :indifferent:

    You're right in that it is common. The conclusion that they must be building muscle mass is one possibility, but it doesn't appear to be likely.
  • GnochhiGnomes
    GnochhiGnomes Posts: 348 Member
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    Yeah I'm not sure if I'm losing fat or muscle so I'm a bit frightened. I have a BF% measurer and apparently I lost 1.7% BF this month and lost 3.8kg. I also don't use free weight but only the weight machines..

    If its unusual genetics then why do so many people lose inches and not weight sometimes on a calorie deficit? It seems like a very common thing rather than uncommon. :indifferent:

    You're right in that it is common. The conclusion that they must be building muscle mass is one possibility, but it doesn't appear to be likely.

    I've just read one article explaining that its a common phenomenon in overweight people who start strength training.
    The article for anyone who is interested: http://muscleevo.net/calorie-deficit/
  • Tedebearduff
    Tedebearduff Posts: 1,155 Member
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    You need to be on a calorie SURPLUS to build muscle. Plain and simple. You may look more fit and tone on a deficit, but your body needs the excess calories to build muscle.

    Why is this?

    I know this is anecdotal but I've seen many people on calorie deficit who have sometimes lost inches but not weight (which I assume is because of muscle being built).

    I'll take my own, uneducated, stab at this. From what I understand, in general it takes 3 things to build muscle.

    1. Work/tension.
    2. Building blocks (protein)
    3. Energy.
    and I guess we could add a 4th thing.
    4. Rest.

    If you're obese, your body is more willing to draw on those fat stores as a source of energy. It doesn't convert the fat to muscle directly, though. Of course, you still need to work at it and need to have the building blocks, I presume. Additionally, if the body isn't used to the work, it can initially respond by gaining some muscle in order to perform the tasks that you're doing, but those gains tend not to be significant.

    People with unusual genetic advantages or people who use steroids can be exceptions to the "no muscle mass building on a deficit" rule.

    Making things more complex, it sounds like determining your muscle mass is actually fairly difficult to do with a ton of accuracy.

    Take it all with a grain of salt, though. I'll be curious to see how others respond.

    I think focus here is that if you're losing inches but not weight, then be happy that you're almost certainly losing fat. :)

    The first 2 responses are so wrong. The dude above(EvanKeel) put it pretty well though ....

    You can build muscle on a calorie deflect just make sure you are getting allot of protein to help the muscles rebuild. Your body already has a "surplus" of energy to help the muscles rebuild. What happens when you tear muscle is your body looks for the closest source of energy to help rebuild it ... which is the fat surrounding the muscles...

    You may need a surplus of calories if say you are already small and want to build muscle ( skinny guy problem )...
  • AshleyNicolexo_
    AshleyNicolexo_ Posts: 27
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    i would think that once you lose your fat and you get to your comfortable weight (or the weight that your body wants you to be at) you would just take in enough calories to maintain your weight to build muscle. but i'm not sure about this really because i'm trying so many different things right now to build muscle.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Generally speaking you can build small amounts of muscle in a deficit if you fall into one of the below groups;

    New to lifting

    Coming back to lifting after a prolonged layoff

    Obese

    Using steroids

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