Cardio vs. Weight Training...Here We Go Again :)
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f cardio....just saying......... Cardio is good for your heart......probably not a bad idea to do both. But you dont need to do cardio to lose weight.
I will attest to this!! More cardio really only means better cardiovascular health. Interval training and sprints are the most effective and take the least amount of time. LOVE my sprints! Love my weights more though...0 -
Cardio has its place - but you can easily overdo it.
Strength training will give the best results in terms of shaping your body and building muscle, which in turns uses more calories.
A combination of both is ideal.
Yes, we both agree it's ideal to do a combination of both. Our disagreement, I believe, is which one is more effective for fat loss.
The answer is strength training. Someone already said this, but I think it's worth repeating: when we lose weight, we lose mostly muscle and some fat. Strength training helps your body burn the fat you have better and helps you build strength while retaining most of your muscle. All cardio and no strength training on a calorie deficit usually leads to skinny, but not shapely or strong.0 -
You don't have to eat clean to lose weight either, but you will feel like you are eating more if you eat less calorie dense "dirty" foods.0
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. After 4 weeks, I am losing lots of inches but my weight is still not budging.
Thats what Strength Training is Doing for you! Inches off mean so much more then the number on the scale!
That is all .... Carry on!0 -
My good friend (who is also on MFP) and I got into this discussion today.
After losing about 30 pounds the first 4-5 months, I stopped losing weight and inches. I did a bunch of things and nothing worked. After 6 months of gaining and losing the same 5-7 pounds I gave up for a bit. Then I read New Rules of Lifting for Women, along with some other stuff, and created my current workout routine which consists of strength training 3 times per week (progressively increasing the amount I lift) and either Yoga, Ballet or Pilates 2-3 times per week. In essence, I flipped what I had been doing...doing less intense cardio and more (heavier) weights. After 4 weeks, I am losing lots of inches but my weight is still not budging.
My friend and I both agree that the cleaner we eat the better. My theory for not losing pounds is that I need to eat cleaner and cut out breads, rice, eating out...you know the more processed stuff. My friend, however, says my problem is that I am not doing enough cardio. She says I need to step it up on the cardio department to get my heart rate going and lose fat. I countered that cardio, although beneficial for overall health, is not necessary for fat loss.
So basically...we both agree that diet is primary, but she believes cardio is more important for weight loss and I think strength training gives you "more bang for your buck".
What are your thoughts? My friend and I are interested in an adult discussion (no attacks) and only opinions based on what has worked for you and/or any scientific knowledge you may have.
Thanks!
Haven't read thru all the responses yet but I wanted to address the original post first. You have both figured it out and botched it at the same time.
You've already won. If you started lifting heavier and the inches are coming off in spades, that's call VICTORY. Unless you're trying to make weight for your upcoming MMA bout, as the late Ed McMahon would say, "You may have already won". "Losing lots of inches" is what it is all about. Nobody knows what your actual weight is. They only know what they see. And it sounds like they are seeing less and less of you each week. Congrats!
That was the good. Now for the other. While what you eat has some minimal effect on metabolism, eating "clean" or cutting out bread or rice or gluten or whatever is not going to be your answer. You lose weight by eating less. Less of everything. Not less of specific things. If your entire diet was wheat bread, rice cakes, and protein shakes and your total calories were 400 under maintenance, 1. you'd be miserable but 2. you'd be losing weight.
But keep in mind I'm not suggesting you cut your calories. You're losing lots of inches. Congrats! Tell the secret to all your friends! Because while they may say they want to lose weight, what they really want to do is lose dress sizes, and lose flab, and get bikini ready. If a genie told them they would gain 40 lbs but look like a bikini model, most of them wouldn't even bother with the 2nd and 3rd wishes.
1. Keep doing what you're doing.
2. Throw away your scale and use your mirror.
3. Keep doing what you're doing.0 -
I lose more weight doing cardio than anything else, especially cardio in the pool. The medical weight loss program I am in has us do cardio and weight training. The heart is a muscle and every muscle in your body needs to be strong. :-)0
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My good friend (who is also on MFP) and I got into this discussion today.
After losing about 30 pounds the first 4-5 months, I stopped losing weight and inches. I did a bunch of things and nothing worked. After 6 months of gaining and losing the same 5-7 pounds I gave up for a bit. Then I read New Rules of Lifting for Women, along with some other stuff, and created my current workout routine which consists of strength training 3 times per week (progressively increasing the amount I lift) and either Yoga, Ballet or Pilates 2-3 times per week. In essence, I flipped what I had been doing...doing less intense cardio and more (heavier) weights. After 4 weeks, I am losing lots of inches but my weight is still not budging.
My friend and I both agree that the cleaner we eat the better. My theory for not losing pounds is that I need to eat cleaner and cut out breads, rice, eating out...you know the more processed stuff. My friend, however, says my problem is that I am not doing enough cardio. She says I need to step it up on the cardio department to get my heart rate going and lose fat. I countered that cardio, although beneficial for overall health, is not necessary for fat loss.
So basically...we both agree that diet is primary, but she believes cardio is more important for weight loss and I think strength training gives you "more bang for your buck".
What are your thoughts? My friend and I are interested in an adult discussion (no attacks) and only opinions based on what has worked for you and/or any scientific knowledge you may have.
Thanks!
Haven't read thru all the responses yet but I wanted to address the original post first. You have both figured it out and botched it at the same time.
You've already won. If you started lifting heavier and the inches are coming off in spades, that's call VICTORY. Unless you're trying to make weight for your upcoming MMA bout, as the late Ed McMahon would say, "You may have already won". "Losing lots of inches" is what it is all about. Nobody knows what your actual weight is. They only know what they see. And it sounds like they are seeing less and less of you each week. Congrats!
That was the good. Now for the other. While what you eat has some minimal effect on metabolism, eating "clean" or cutting out bread or rice or gluten or whatever is not going to be your answer. You lose weight by eating less. Less of everything. Not less of specific things. If your entire diet was wheat bread, rice cakes, and protein shakes and your total calories were 400 under maintenance, 1. you'd be miserable but 2. you'd be losing weight.
But keep in mind I'm not suggesting you cut your calories. You're losing lots of inches. Congrats! Tell the secret to all your friends! Because while they may say they want to lose weight, what they really want to do is lose dress sizes, and lose flab, and get bikini ready. If a genie told them they would gain 40 lbs but look like a bikini model, most of them wouldn't even bother with the 2nd and 3rd wishes.
1. Keep doing what you're doing.
2. Throw away your scale and use your mirror.
3. Keep doing what you're doing.
Perhaps. But then I'd suggest that people who live off Burger King, Pizza and MacDonalds (ahem) probably aren't doing their long term health that much good. It may not have an immediate effect on the cals in / cals out equation, and sure, you can lose weight doing this.... but in terms of long term sustainable weightloss and overall health, I'm guessing the OP's clean eating strategy is likely to do more lifelong good.0 -
Balance is key!
When I ran a lot and didn't lift I got skinny fat...I weighed about 15 lbs less than I do now and looked heavier
When I only lifted I didn't see the fat loss I wanted and wasn't losing any weight although I did look a bit leaner
Now I make sure to do both equally and I am seeing great progress! I think both are critical, unless you're morbidly obese it might be easier to shed some weight first to get the most out of your strength workouts but still include both0 -
Regardless of gender, both weight training and cardio are just as important as the other, if you ask me. Weight training can help increase lean mass, which boosts your metabolism and pretty much turbocharges your fat burning abilities, especially during those cardio sessions.
Cardio just on its own, you will lose weight/inches to an extent as you saw, but without strength training you won't sustain as much lean muscle mass. I think even most of the olympic-caliber runners and such have at least some sort of strength training regimen.0 -
I like doing both. I have been doing more cardio than lifting lately because it is summer I am outside running and riding my bike more. But I think it is important to include weight lifting.0
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lifting is the only exercise that is critical for body recomposition. Cardio is and optional way to increase your deficit instead of eating less.
wtf it's like i quoted myself or some nonsense0 -
I do not understand why cardio and strength training are seen as one or the other. It is quite possible to do both at once, and for people who are limited to the amount of time they can spend at home, outdoors or at the gym. Two example workouts that get the heart rate to my 85% -90% levels.
5 minute elliptical warm up
5 minute dynamic stretching
5 minute on cable machine - pistol squats with row at top and bottom, chest presses with lunges, step up onto bench, step or whatever with cable shoulder press and high knee raise
25's - 25 reps of each exercise, 12.5k db, 25k bb (increase weights as you get better, decrease if you need to find your starting level
25 * squat with db swing to shoulder press Left side, right side (I use 25k DB)
25 * BB chest press on swiss ball with good hip bridge (I use 45k BB) You can just press up on ball if you want
25 * Lunges - db resting on shoulders (I use 17.5k)
25 * BB Row
25 * Reverse fly on incline bench
25 * Front Squats db at shoulder - maxing out heart rate now
25 * Fench Press
25 * Chest Fly
25 * Bicep curl - tandem slow not left right swing swing swing - declining heart rate but PER will be 9 or 10
Should take 25 minutes - rest when you feel you need it, but after a few weeks you will go faster with no breaks.
I then finish with a 4 minute tabata protocol after heart rate has gone to low Fat Burn Zone which for me is 115 bpm. I choose mountain climbers and then prisoner squats in the protocol. Should now hit my max165 again
Cool down and stretch - less than 60 minutes
Calorie burn about 1100 for me.
Do this 3-4 times per week, heavy lifts 2 days per week or sometimes if I have got the time I do heavy lifts for 15-20 minutes and then into 25's or ladders (super hard with plyometrics)
Weight has been lost hitting cardio and strength in this manner. Just weight lifting, I put weight on and not lean muscle mass, some but not the weight difference - I put this down to resting for too long and when working not really getting the anabolic heart rate - so me LAZY probably.0 -
When I focused solely on running, I was skinny fat. Now that I am lifting two days a week, my body has completely changed. I will say, however, that I busted through a 4 month plateau recently by adding a couple of cardio sessions per week - 2 miles walking on treadmill at 3.8 mph and a 3.5 incline, which takes me 31 minutes. Basically, those couple of extra cardio sessions allow me to eat a bit more and now the scale is finally moving down again. As for the original question, weight lifting is definitely the better fat burning tool.0
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One thing I always here is that cardio will help you lose fat as long as you are on the machine.. if you lift weights and build muscle it'll help you lose weight ALL day long. This is because muscle uses up more calories per day than fat.
If you've been lifting and increasing the weight you are most likely gaining muscle! Be proud of that! Try not to get caught up with your weight, be more concerned with composition. Perhaps you should invest in a scale that measures body fat or measure inches off waist. From experience I've found that the number means absolutely nothing. I am a 21 year old amateur boxer and I've been training and eating clean for most of the year. SInce january the number on the scale remains to be 147.. but after retesting body fat I went from 16% to 9%. For a while I stressed and wondered what I was doing wrong.. I beat myself up and went into a few binge eating weeks because of this. It wasn't until yesterday that I realized that what I was doing actually worked! Replaced 8 Lbs of fat with 8 Lbs of muscle.
Continue to eat clean! Determinednoo said "lifting is the only exercise that is critical for body recomposition. Cardio is and optional way to increase your deficit instead of eating less. " and that couldn't have been more true.0 -
IMO, the secret to weight loss is finding a physical activity you love doing and doing it regularly. If you love running, you will lose weight with running because it's an enjoyable part of your life that you always make time for. Same with weightlifting. Same with pilates. Same with yoga. Same with kickboxing. I'm lucky in that there are several things I enjoy (kickboxing, yoga, and weight workouts) so it's easy for me to make time for all of them.
As far as bumping up against a plateau and trying to get rid of those last stubborn 15lbs., HIIT workouts have really helped me get over that hump. Fortunately, I love my Turbo Fire HIITs.0 -
I don't get it either. They seem to naturally compliment one another. After a weight training day you're supposed to rest for a day to allow the muscles to recover. Why not use the rest days for cardio training?I do not understand why cardio and strength training are seen as one or the other.0 -
I don't get it either. They seem to naturally compliment one another. After a weight training day you're supposed to rest for a day to allow the muscles to recover. Why not use the rest days for cardio training?I do not understand why cardio and strength training are seen as one or the other.
Same here. I do both. I enjoy both. I actually enjoy cardio a little more, but I think strength training did more for my body shape.
But it's like chocolate and peanut butter. Or bacon and cheeseburgers. Each are good. Together is amazing.0 -
I do cardio so I have an excuse to eat (more) carbs. :happy:0
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Both are valuable. Why does it have to be one vs the other?0
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My good friend (who is also on MFP) and I got into this discussion today.
After losing about 30 pounds the first 4-5 months, I stopped losing weight and inches. I did a bunch of things and nothing worked. After 6 months of gaining and losing the same 5-7 pounds I gave up for a bit. Then I read New Rules of Lifting for Women, along with some other stuff, and created my current workout routine which consists of strength training 3 times per week (progressively increasing the amount I lift) and either Yoga, Ballet or Pilates 2-3 times per week. In essence, I flipped what I had been doing...doing less intense cardio and more (heavier) weights. After 4 weeks, I am losing lots of inches but my weight is still not budging.
My friend and I both agree that the cleaner we eat the better. My theory for not losing pounds is that I need to eat cleaner and cut out breads, rice, eating out...you know the more processed stuff. My friend, however, says my problem is that I am not doing enough cardio. She says I need to step it up on the cardio department to get my heart rate going and lose fat. I countered that cardio, although beneficial for overall health, is not necessary for fat loss.
So basically...we both agree that diet is primary, but she believes cardio is more important for weight loss and I think strength training gives you "more bang for your buck".
What are your thoughts? My friend and I are interested in an adult discussion (no attacks) and only opinions based on what has worked for you and/or any scientific knowledge you may have.
Thanks!
If you are only concern with loosing weight, then do cardio and eat less that waht you spend , but of you you want the body of your dreams then you need resistance training (weights, bands, etc). Do not let body your weight be your only guide, remember muscle is denser that fat (that means it is heavier). Weight lifting may make you heavier, but will also make you look better and be stronger. Use both body weight and the mirror to guide your progress and action plans. I barely weight myself, I take body fat % readings daily and look at the mirror. If the mirror tells me fat around the waist I add more cardio or cut on calories.0 -
I think you need both. I weight train 4-5 times a week with 30 mins of cardio each day. Yes weight training for a woman can be very disappointing when looking at the scale if thats how you determin your success because for the first little while it doesn't budge or you actually gain weight. However the visual benefits of the weight training can not be accomplished by cardio alone. That being said, if we don't have cardiovascular health, well we don't have much...we kinda need our lungs and heart in order to lift those weights. I'm all for clean eating, however we also need to indulge which is part of the diet I was given by the trainer. I am required to "cheat" once a week, something to do with shocking your system? I don't quite understand it but its working for me. I've lost 2 pant sizes but only 3 pounds, i've gotten past the need for success on the scale.0
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Cardio nor weight training is required for weight loss or fat loss. But they affect body composition. If you don't want to up cardio or readjust your weight training program then you have to look at diet. I hate cardio and rather not do it but I like to eat so I have to use it on top of my weight training program to lose fat.0
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I am required to "cheat" once a week, something to do with shocking your system?
I can't say with total certainty myself but I think the "cheating" here and there makes it less likely for you to overindulge at other times - however, assuming the "cheat" also means a higher calorie consumption for the day, that does help because the body's metabolism will adjust somewhat to a hypocaloric diet over time, and that "cheat" day can boost it back up, so the next few days when you are back to hypocaloric, you burn even more fat.0 -
I don't get it either. They seem to naturally compliment one another. After a weight training day you're supposed to rest for a day to allow the muscles to recover. Why not use the rest days for cardio training?I do not understand why cardio and strength training are seen as one or the other.
Because that's not rest maybe?
Don't misunderstand, some activity to get the blood flowing through your recovering muscles is critical. Cardio at that point...to the level so many here want to take it, is counter productive.0 -
I don't get it either. They seem to naturally compliment one another. After a weight training day you're supposed to rest for a day to allow the muscles to recover. Why not use the rest days for cardio training?I do not understand why cardio and strength training are seen as one or the other.
Because that's not rest maybe?
Don't misunderstand, some activity to get the blood flowing through your recovering muscles is critical. Cardio at that point...to the level so many here want to take it, is counter productive.
Yes, when you are actually trying to build muscle cardio that so intensive it hinders muscle recovery is counterproductive and also burns calories that could be used to build muscle which requires that you eat more.0 -
f cardio....just saying......... Cardio is good for your heart......probably not a bad idea to do both. But you dont need to do cardio to lose weight.
Don't need to do weight training either, just eat less than you burn. The real answer is probably some of both, but it just depends on what you want.0 -
f cardio....just saying......... Cardio is good for your heart......probably not a bad idea to do both. But you dont need to do cardio to lose weight.
I will attest to this!! More cardio really only means better cardiovascular health. Interval training and sprints are the most effective and take the least amount of time. LOVE my sprints! Love my weights more though...
Sprints and intervals will help with your lactate threshold and V02 Max, not overall aerobic capacity or capillary or mitochondria propagation that support cardiovascular endurance that will push more blood to the muscles and increase your aerobic capacity and lower your resting heart rate.
We all have slow twitch muscle fibers, and two types of fast twitch fibers. If a fitness plan ignores one or more of these then it will atrophy. There is a place for resistance training, endurance training and speed training in every fitness program, and there are no shortcuts that are not also short changing something, somewhere. If you intend to only focus on resistance and speed, that is fine, obviously some people focus only on aerobic endurance and don't do any resistance or speed work, but don't mistake the benefits of speed work as the same as you would get by putting some time into endurance it is misleading to state otherwise.0 -
I think it has to be a combination of cardio and strength training. I do the following and it works really well for me. Cardio for 45 min on an interval setting usually stairmaster or arch trainer 6 days a week. I then do strength training two days on one day off then two days on again. I do try to throw in a Pilate's or yoga class to help with my core once a week. I also make sure I stick to my daily calories goal which is really important to loosing weight in order to have a weekly deficit. However I do allow a cheat meal a week and one high calories day in which I take in maybe 200-300 calories extra that day to manipulate my metabolism a bit. We also do a weekly fat check. Some weeks you may not loose weight but gain muscle. Just depends. This has worked for me! I started out at 260 last February and now I am at 175.0
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f cardio....just saying......... Cardio is good for your heart......probably not a bad idea to do both. But you dont need to do cardio to lose weight.
I will attest to this!! More cardio really only means better cardiovascular health. Interval training and sprints are the most effective and take the least amount of time. LOVE my sprints! Love my weights more though...
Sprints and intervals will help with your lactate threshold and V02 Max, not overall aerobic capacity or capillary or mitochondria propagation that support cardiovascular endurance that will push more blood to the muscles and increase your aerobic capacity and lower your resting heart rate.
We all have slow twitch muscle fibers, and two types of fast twitch fibers. If a fitness plan ignores one or more of these then it will atrophy. There is a place for resistance training, endurance training and speed training in every fitness program, and there are no shortcuts that are not also short changing something, somewhere. If you intend to only focus on resistance and speed, that is fine, obviously some people focus only on aerobic endurance and don't do any resistance or speed work, but don't mistake the benefits of speed work as the same as you would get by putting some time into endurance it is misleading to state otherwise.
You know I totally get you here and I agree in principle. What you are saying would be great if we didn't have the rest of our lives like work and family and other responsibilities.
But when I look at it and factor in recovery time, which at age 61 is a factor, I have to decide which one I'm going to focus on. So, when I looked at the research, strength training was the winner. It give the highest bang for the time spent. Some cardio benefit, lean tissue maintenence, hormonal health, fat burning, body composition, anti aging.
I still do some occaisional speedwork and I love me a long bike ride. But my priority is strength training. With recovery and rest time factored in, I can't be good at all 3. So, I'm going to be good at the one that the research says will give me the most benefit.
Just one man's choice.0 -
I always say that when you build the lifestyle, build it into something that you feel you will be able to tolerate for a gooood longgg while and not load up on alot of things that are impractical. That way, long term, you'll be able to maintain that lifestyle and you'll always be able to go in and tweak something here and there in order to get to your goals eventually. I'm no expert but for me, this theory works. I say Cardio helps to contribute to the negative calorie deficit and with the right cals in vs cals out, you can almost pin point when where and how much weight you will lose. With strength training, it just looks better, it also helps to build more of the stuff in your body that allows you to burn excess calories more efficiently than fat will and so it looks better and works better. But i'm no expert. Just my two cents. Hope its received and if it works it works!
#enjoyyourprocess!!0
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