Smiths Machine - only option for squats

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porffor
porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hi all,

I know this is a trouble hotspot, but my gym only has a smiths machine for squats (no free weights)... so today I was shown how to use it at my request. I worked on still maintaining the correct position as I would free weights.

Will the weight I lift compare to that I can lift on a free weight squat? or be less effective?

Also are deadlifts on it just as effective or again less effective?

Thanks for any advice.
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Replies

  • smithy85
    smithy85 Posts: 104 Member
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    For Squats they will still work, you have to remember that the bar weights nothing so the weights you puit on it is soley what you are lifting. the issue with the Smith Machine is the angle its sat at, not as affective a freeweights, but you will still gain from it, after all its better than doing nothing!

    Deadlifts are meant to be unassisted with free weights, what you are going to be doing isnt a deadlift in my opinion on a smith machine, squats are ok...not ideal but ok

    x
  • vtachycardia
    vtachycardia Posts: 374
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    Got any cable machines? Dual Handle preferably?
  • swolenbeast
    swolenbeast Posts: 7
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    Smith machines defiantly have a place. If you squat or deadlift on a smith the weights would be comparable but not the same. Maybe ten to fifteen percent different. the big advantage to free weight squats and deadlifts is the engagement of the stabilizer muscles. If your in it for fitness they will do just fine. If your in it for powerlifting look for a gym with free weights.
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Got any cable machines? Dual Handle preferably?

    yeah there is a big cable machine with dual handles... haven't used it yet mind but I use the tricep push down and lat pull down so far (along with resistance machines).
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Smith machines defiantly have a place. If you squat or deadlift on a smith the weights would be comparable but not the same. Maybe ten to fifteen percent different. the big advantage to free weight squats and deadlifts is the engagement of the stabilizer muscles. If your in it for fitness they will do just fine. If your in it for powerlifting look for a gym with free weights.

    Really not an option yet, as I'm in Uni and go back in a month, this one I am at is near the motorway I have to commute on (and home) so have the option to use this for now, and maybe look for something else later.

    I don't really have a goal at the moment other than fitness and weight loss - but - you never know, though strength / weight lifting would be my preference compared to body comps. I'd have too much skin to ever wear a bikini even if I ever got to a low BF% lol. Strong female was my previous goal and always my preferred look..
  • vtachycardia
    vtachycardia Posts: 374
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    Got any cable machines? Dual Handle preferably?

    yeah there is a big cable machine with dual handles... haven't used it yet mind but I use the tricep push down and lat pull down so far (along with resistance machines).

    Cable Machines if the stacks are are weighty enough, my gym goes to 150k total - 75K each stack. You can do squats and deadlifts and chest pressing on a cable machine, in fact pretty much anything and then tons more than free weights (without the super weights of barbell obviously)- make the routine heavy - strength, medium - hypertrophy, low - endurance lactic burn.

    Check out

    Functional Patterns - top end of dynamic 3D training

    Scott Herman Cable workouts - always good for the beginer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9WQwk725Zg - - little more advanced

    thederrickprice - nice relaxed style and excellent at getting knowledge across

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd3Fj-RmovI&feature=related - all levels and tons of vids

    Hate my gym when the level II pt's come and show the noobs, tricep press down, bicep curl on the cable machine like that is all it does.
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Got any cable machines? Dual Handle preferably?

    yeah there is a big cable machine with dual handles... haven't used it yet mind but I use the tricep push down and lat pull down so far (along with resistance machines).

    Cable Machines if the stacks are are weighty enough, my gym goes to 150k total - 75K each stack. You can do squats and deadlifts and chest pressing on a cable machine, in fact pretty much anything and then tons more than free weights (without the super weights of barbell obviously)- make the routine heavy - strength, medium - hypertrophy, low - endurance lactic burn.

    Check out

    Functional Patterns - top end of dynamic 3D training

    Scott Herman Cable workouts - always good for the beginer

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9WQwk725Zg - - little more advanced

    thederrickprice - nice relaxed style and excellent at getting knowledge across

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd3Fj-RmovI&feature=related - all levels and tons of vids

    Hate my gym when the level II pt's come and show the noobs, tricep press down, bicep curl on the cable machine like that is all it does.

    Thanks so much! :) Will have a look and dig around for more options too. :) I used to use cable machines in the past, and to be honest was surprised not to find free weights. There are huge dumbbells so will add more into that too where I can. The back machine is a bit awkward for me (pad against my chest and my grip slips on my left hand halfway through my reps, the rubber is really smooth) would be nice to do that on a cable system too. It took 3 instructors (or whatever their position) before one would even show me the smiths machine so I've made a bit of progress from the surprised look I got when I said I wanted to lift heavy. lol
  • vtachycardia
    vtachycardia Posts: 374
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    Dumbbells are free weights, many gyms will have DB's to 30K but those weights do not interest real llifters, maybe for some nice arnold presses. But they avoid having barbells with heavy weights, mainly due to lacking proper coaching or because they just do not want the client base of strength athletes, plus strength athletes go where they know the weight will never run out.

    Pretty sure the cable machine stacks will have sufficient weight for you to maximise strength in the big lifts and find unlimited ways to develop the compound exercise

    pendulum DB swing squat with row on bosu ball for example is very taxing.
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Thanks again! I haven't seen a Bosu ball so will see if they have one. :) I did do some rows yesterday as like those at home, so did them with dumbbells. :) The pendulum is a possibility but not much clear space but I'm sure if it's quiet I could move benches around to give myself room! lol

    Feeling like youtube will be on my computer for a bit now.. off to have a nosey!
  • vtachycardia
    vtachycardia Posts: 374
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    Yes, a gym where they have a cable machine but then limit your range of movement by packing other stuff in. grrrrrrrrrrr

    I would start with squat row

    then pendulum

    then progress to bosu ball - all stages of development
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    lol I know! no guides either or mirrors to see your form... yeah I can see me changing gym eventually but for now this is best fit generally.

    been doing rows low weight for a while so upping the weight on those will help :) There is a muscle class where they bench press, snatch and deadlift so I'll keep doing that, just up the weights when I can it's low weight / high rep though. :$

    and get to using those cable machines!
  • vtachycardia
    vtachycardia Posts: 374
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    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/4-day-power-muscle-burn-workout-split.html

    Where I started - high weight low rep, medium weight medium reps, low weight high rep

    Do it right, it works big time.

    while I am losing weight I am not going for muscle hypertrophy or pure strength, inadequate nutrients to really get results "FOR ME" does not mean that for others it works.
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    yeah it's a great class with a fab instructor.. she has my ideal body and is older than me.. not the model type but strong n' lean where it matters. lol Totally weight based workouts are a rarity I must admit so will be great to become a regular even if I pretend I can only bench press 20kg.

    Just had a read of that link, saved to my favourites, really great workout plan thanks. Am looking to split up the recommended 'full body' workout they gave me.. got a legs one today which has worked well.

    Thanks
  • vtachycardia
    vtachycardia Posts: 374
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    Good stuff, but I realise my last post went a bit odd.

    I meant, the link I posted is the first routine I tried and I really enjoyed it. However, I am losing weight (fat) and do not currently take on board enough nutrients to warrant strength training nor muscle hypertrophy. Which does not mean that people just getting started losing weight and wanting a good workout cannot do the one I posted, because it is a great workout.

    So, my workouts are more cable based cardio incorporating medium weight high reps but not to failure. And I love to do ladders.

    Which is choosing exercises and then counting down and then counting back up, or with the example below, just counting down and always trying to increase DB weight but you can do less exercises, go faster, less weight and start at 12

    For example --

    8 Front squats - 30kilo DB
    8 Right Leg (RL) Lunges 22.5 kilo DB
    8 Left Leg (LL) Lunges
    8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=MpSMNzfN9H4&NR=1 of these but with high knee raise and with off-set DB, one on my shoulder and one by my side. Shoulder DB is the one that is stepping up 15K on shoulder 17.5K by side
    8 Chest Press - Swiss Ball
    8 Chest Fly - Swiss Ball
    8 Tricep something or other - Swiss Ball - hard to explain and cannot find a video as I do not have a name. Never Mind.
    8 Shoulder Press - Swiss Ball

    This takes me 40 minutes, heart rate rises from 95 to 150 plus, which is getting to my MHR so i take short rests and heart rate allowed to fall to 142 before resuming (sometimes faster, depends if it is upper body or lower body exercises next) - the flies, triceps are like mini breaks anyway.

    You go from 8, to 7,6,5,4,3,2,1

    If it were less exercises you go back up the ladder,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

    Super conditioning,body recompostion and cardio at the same time! yeah.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
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    Just in case you haven't seen this: http://stronglifts.com/smith-machine-squats-power-rack-free-weights/

    I don't use the smith machine at all because of this. I'd rather do DB front squats. I bought an olympic bar on my own (they are 100-125 for a decent one) for doing deads and rows.
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Just in case you haven't seen this: http://stronglifts.com/smith-machine-squats-power-rack-free-weights/

    I don't use the smith machine at all because of this. I'd rather do DB front squats. I bought an olympic bar on my own (they are 100-125 for a decent one) for doing deads and rows.

    Thanks, this is the sort of thing that was concerning me a bit I must admit. Will be looking at the cable / free weights with dumbbell options I think to be honest.

    I also found another gym to 'grow into' if I feel the need, it's not much dearer, a little further away but worth considering for later on for sure as it has a huge free weight section.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    A gym without a couple power racks or at least half racks, barbells, and dumbbells is not a gym.

    Does the bar on a Smith Machine even weight 45lbs? I had read somewhere that it was only a 15lb bar, but perhaps that depends on the brand of Smith Machine.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    Let me guess. Planet Fitness.

    Unless you NEED Smith Machines for stabilizing (which I do for some exercises but not squats) It is ALWAYS best to use free weights of some sort. Use dumbbells instead.
  • swolenbeast
    swolenbeast Posts: 7
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    Well like I said smith machines work great for fitness. Don't get me wrong though. I have many friends in power lifting that do assistance work on a smith. Maybe I'm being to complicated. Smith machines will give u strenth hands down. They will be much better than the couch and a bag of potato chips. Good job on your weight loss so far. Keep it up!!!
  • porffor
    porffor Posts: 1,212 Member
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    Let me guess. Planet Fitness.

    Unless you NEED Smith Machines for stabilizing (which I do for some exercises but not squats) It is ALWAYS best to use free weights of some sort. Use dumbbells instead.

    I'm in the UK (Wales) it's my local leisure centre - I have managed to find a gym with free weights but will see how I go first where I am, I am still working on my weight and generally lifting at a low level so I guess I could look at moving 'on' to the other gym when the time comes.

    I did a lot of dumbbell work tonight so working up my time on them :)

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