Weight Lifting & Calorie Expenditure confusion!

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Replies

  • Doberdawn
    Doberdawn Posts: 733 Member
    OK everybody, I bought the Polar FT4 (women's) over the weekend and used it today. My readings are as follows:

    I did Beach Body's Turbo Fire "Fire 45" Class (by Chalene Johnson):
    - Duration: 53min; 27sec
    - Calories burned: 632
    - "In Zone": 8min; 35sec
    - Average heart rate: 174bpm
    - Maximum heart rate: 191

    Sound accurate? B/c I know I was raising a lot of questions when I said that my Average heart rate was 170 when I was calculating it manually myself.

    If I remember your original post right, folks were surprised you were reaching 170s+ while doing weights. Turbo Fire is cardio... massive cardio. BTW, have you ever done a test on yourself to find out if you actually match the formula? Some folks are in better shape than the formula and the max HR they can reach is higher... which makes their percentage of max higher. Just curious.
  • Carrie_W02
    Carrie_W02 Posts: 10 Member
    I'm 29yrs old (will be the big 3-0 Sept 1st, lol). But supposedly my MAX heart rate is 191bpm. Obviously, that may be wrong? Although I'm not sure how to juggle the numbers to where it's more suited to myself? And Turbo Fire is definitely Cardio. Not weight training or anything for me today. I am about 15 pounds from my goal of weighing 130lbs. BUT, they say eat back your calories?? I don't get that. I thought the bigger a deficit, the better? (well, within reason of course). I can't wrap my head around "eating more to lose weight". I know it can't be just garbage food, you gotta eat clean and eat the right foods and all that. I've also read when you get close to your goal weight, you can get by with a small calorie deficit and still lose right and all that goodness.....Thoughts?
  • Carrie_W02
    Carrie_W02 Posts: 10 Member
    I forgot, I mostly eat egg whites, 100% whole wheat bread, oatmeal, bananas, soup, Quaker Mini Rice cakes (cheddar! one of my favorite snacks), Michalina's Lean Gormet meals, boneless skinless chicken (baked), frozen broccoli, black beans (from bag)....Those are some of the most frequent foods I've been eating. After a workout, I usually drink a protein shake (36g whey protein). Not too sure about carb use....too many, too little? What are they for? Specifically for workout-wise...Stay away from them?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    I'm 29yrs old (will be the big 3-0 Sept 1st, lol). But supposedly my MAX heart rate is 191bpm. Obviously, that may be wrong? Although I'm not sure how to juggle the numbers to where it's more suited to myself? And Turbo Fire is definitely Cardio. Not weight training or anything for me today. I am about 15 pounds from my goal of weighing 130lbs. BUT, they say eat back your calories?? I don't get that. I thought the bigger a deficit, the better? (well, within reason of course). I can't wrap my head around "eating more to lose weight". I know it can't be just garbage food, you gotta eat clean and eat the right foods and all that. I've also read when you get close to your goal weight, you can get by with a small calorie deficit and still lose right and all that goodness.....Thoughts?

    Bigger deficit the better, within reason - and what is that exactly?

    MFP already gave you a deficit, with no exercise known or expected or entered. You entered goal minutes and frequency - but that isn't used in any calculations.
    To keep that same deficit - which may not actually be reasonable anymore, you eat back the exercise calories.

    For 15 lbs, 1 lb week is reasonable.
    Activity level is usually Lightly Active, Sedentary if you literally sit at work all day, get done with workout, and plop on the couch all night until bed.

    But yes to HRmax stat in your personal stats being wrong. You don't reach your HRmax in a workout and keep working out, therefore it is higher than the HRM has calculated. Which for women, you have more odds being 10 bpm outside the estimate than in.

    Read other reply up above too, setting HRmax to 198 probably valid.

    Carb use - when your cardio workout is that intense, that is probably 80% of what you are burning - carbs, glucose.
    Those have limited stores, once they are out, you body will convert muscle to glucose to still have something to use.
    Many days in a row of intense cardio and not eating enough carbs - you'll accomplish that very easily.
    That is how you burn of muscle and Lean Body Mass.

    Less LBM, smaller metabolism. Smaller metabolism, slower weight loss. Smaller metabolism, less you can eat at maintenance.
  • Carrie_W02
    Carrie_W02 Posts: 10 Member
    Okay, so what would you eat/drink before and after a cardio workout? I definitely don't want to lose my lean body mass....I like to lose this fat! How would you get your body to use fat stores, if it's possible? When, where, how?

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    My heart rate monitor records changes in my heart rate as related to exertion, over a period of time. Just like it does for cardio - BPM over time, factoring in age and weight (at least on my HRM).

    Tell me again how cardio is different from strength training if it's a) recording my bursts of BPM increase, over a period of time, and factoring in my age / weight / V02 measurements?

    Effort. Time spent at that effort. Age. Weight. V02 estimates.

    Exercise is exercise, the HRM doesn't care what it is, it records it all and spits out a an estimate. Which is a pretty darned good estimate, regardless of the work I'm doing at the time.

    It is more accurate to say the HRM doesn't KNOW what it is you are doing, therefore calorie estimates can be wildly off.

    Here is an explanation that takes out the guesswork--it's not a topic that there is really any question about.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/hrms-cannot-count-calories-during-strength-training-17698
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Really? That's funny, because I breathe pretty darned hard when I'm doing squats. And deadlifts. And.. well, anytime I pick up a plate.

    Here are some facts: http://www.livestrong.com/article/271696-heart-monitors-for-strength-training/

    To the OP: buy a HRM, you will benefit.

    Read the article - not one comment about calorie count having any usefulness with weight lifting. Nothing to back up your assertions in that regard.

    it's talking about knowing you are hitting the anaerobic zone during the lifts. Huh, perhaps if someone is comparing 5 sets x 20 reps this would be useful info, but if you are doing 5 x 5 or 3 x 6 - 10, and actually pushing hard, I'd find it surprising that someone might not know that anyway.

    I'm sorry, but if you can't tell you are pushing as hard as you can, which would make reaching the anaerobic zone happen automatically, then you just need some general advice on how to lift properly.

    But as far as any useful calorie count from it - you'll have to buy the expensive Polar model that says it is specifically for weight lifting, or the Suunto or Garmin's that use Firstbeat algorithms.

    Otherwise, forget it for calorie count purposes, but go for it if you literally can't tell you are pushing as hard as you can and need to confirm later.

    I can understand the confusion since, from the outside, it looks and feels the same.

    As you know, there is plenty of research available that spells out the numbers clearly.

    Lifting a heavy weight might result in a heart rate 85% of max, but VO2 might only be 25%. That's the disconnect--during cardio at that HR, the VO2 would be more like 70% of max.

    The last study I read listed the VO2 for 2-4 RM squats as averaging 2-4 METs.
  • shorty35565
    shorty35565 Posts: 1,425 Member
    I do Chalean extreme and my heart rate rarely ever gets that high.
    You do know that you can't accurately measure how much u burn lifting weight by your heart rate tho? There are other factors that come in to play, like how heavy you go, what muscle group you work, how big said muscle group is.
    I wear my HRM during mine just to get a rough estimate & I rarely get over 300 cals. My HRM bases the burns off weight & I weigh 128lbs. BUT I realize that burn isn't accurate. I just use it too log. I dont eat back my cals, so it makes not diff to me.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Okay, so what would you eat/drink before and after a cardio workout? I definitely don't want to lose my lean body mass....I like to lose this fat! How would you get your body to use fat stores, if it's possible? When, where, how?

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

    If really planning this day after day, give 3 days to as intense as you like it, 2 inbetween days calm it down. One trains the anaerobic system and carb burning, one trains aerobic system and fat burning.

    For the eatback, mainly in the time after the workout until the next one, at your normal meals/snacks.

    So 600 cal burn, 80% is 480 calories of carbs roughly, is 120 grams. Extra. Above what you were going to eat anyway. So when you eat back your exercise calories of 600, confirm between workouts you are getting at least 120 g of extra carbs.
    And if evening workout, may not feel like pigging out that night, but if in the green one night, be willing to go in the red the next day. Of course, once you start that, it'll balance out. You'll eat a bigger breakfast and lunch perhaps the next day, and be ready for the workout that night. You'll have bigger dinner after the workout, and a balanced snack later before bed.

    Remember, it can't store as fat if it can be used elsewhere first, either immediately, or topping of glucose stores. And protein before bed always useful for the body to use it to repair what you've done to it.

    That's some rough suggestions to same the LBM, and train the fat-burning zone.
  • Muscles_Curves
    Muscles_Curves Posts: 385 Member
    I've wondered about this myself. I workout at CrossFit and we lift weights, run, jump rope, pullups etc. And was wondering if my calorie count would be off. It's a good thing I don't eat all of my exercise calories back. Thanks for posting.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    Really? That's funny, because I breathe pretty darned hard when I'm doing squats. And deadlifts. And.. well, anytime I pick up a plate.

    Here are some facts: http://www.livestrong.com/article/271696-heart-monitors-for-strength-training/

    To the OP: buy a HRM, you will benefit.

    Read the article - not one comment about calorie count having any usefulness with weight lifting. Nothing to back up your assertions in that regard.

    it's talking about knowing you are hitting the anaerobic zone during the lifts. Huh, perhaps if someone is comparing 5 sets x 20 reps this would be useful info, but if you are doing 5 x 5 or 3 x 6 - 10, and actually pushing hard, I'd find it surprising that someone might not know that anyway.

    I'm sorry, but if you can't tell you are pushing as hard as you can, which would make reaching the anaerobic zone happen automatically, then you just need some general advice on how to lift properly.

    But as far as any useful calorie count from it - you'll have to buy the expensive Polar model that says it is specifically for weight lifting, or the Suunto or Garmin's that use Firstbeat algorithms.

    Otherwise, forget it for calorie count purposes, but go for it if you literally can't tell you are pushing as hard as you can and need to confirm later.

    I can understand the confusion since, from the outside, it looks and feels the same.

    As you know, there is plenty of research available that spells out the numbers clearly.

    Lifting a heavy weight might result in a heart rate 85% of max, but VO2 might only be 25%. That's the disconnect--during cardio at that HR, the VO2 would be more like 70% of max.

    The last study I read listed the VO2 for 2-4 RM squats as averaging 2-4 METs.

    But for calorie counting purposes we are not interested in how much oxygen is consumed. We are interested in how much glucose is consumed.

    Glucose combustion in the muscles without oxygen (anaerobic exercise) is extremely inefficient, oxygen makes the reaction produce 19x as much energy.

    There is virtually no research into how much glucose is actually consumed when strength training. It is borderline impossible to measure. Every estimate out there sucks.

    The only way you can accurately measure it is by adjusting your calorie goals to meet a specific rate of gain/loss.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    The last study I read listed the VO2 for 2-4 RM squats as averaging 2-4 METs.

    Wow, had never read enough of those to remember they are that low, if that's been known anyway, really was years ago looking at that kind of thing.

    That's like walking 2.6 mph to reach that MET level, and that's just for the true 15-20 seconds of the squat.

    I'm guessing then the improvement that strength training can cause in VO2max, even if minor, must be sucking in air when done.

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