Calories for muscle gain?

If you haven't done much lifting then you'll probably see gains in both muscle, weight, whilst losing fat, the enigma, when first starting out. if you have been lifting for a while then you'll probably know its virtually impossible to lose fat and gain muscle without steroids. what id say is get a good strength and conditioning program together, cut your cals and aim to lose 1lb and week, the key is dont lose too fast. cut to 10% bodyfat then bulk slowly, i wouldn't go above 14% bodyfat before doing another cut. some can live with the fat some can't.

As a head's up, I'm also not one of those girls who thinks weight on the scale=bad. I'm almost obsessively a measurements girl (just in case you guys phrase it as, "Well the scale will go up").

That being said...

Some of you said what my fiance is doing. He was a long-time lifter for most of his life, and is focusing on dropping weight before bulking for lean muscle. Is that the best route, then?

I only pose this question because just today, I've encountered several "Success Stories," blogs, and various people who dropped weight and lifted heavy all at the same time. I know some said they ate at a deficit, too.

So is this the age old, "Depends on who you are" deal?

That's good to hear. The scale is really pointless. I wouldn't care if I weighed 400lbs if I had 10% body fat and was ripped. The number really means nothing.

What you mentioned in regards to your fiance is a pretty traditional way of doing things. A lot of guys will lean out to say 10% BF, then eat way above their TDEE for 6-12 months or so to put on lots of mass. Then they'll cut down the resulting extra body fat again. Bulking/cutting cycles. Very typical way of doing things since it's hard/impossible to gain mass while on a deficit, and it's also hard/impossible to only gain muscle while on a surplus. It's pretty tried and true. As for being the "best" way of doing things, I can't really answer that.

As far as the success stories of people who dropped weight and lifted heavy, I'm sure they all ate at a deficit. That's the only way to drop fat. I know I have. I've dropped almost 70lbs and I primarily do the major compound lifts M/W/F. The advantage to lifting heavy on a deficit is that you can still make good strength gains and PRESERVE muscle mass while losing the fat. Plus it's fun and it's useful exercise (you look better and have more strength). However, you do not gain any (maybe a tiny bit) muscle mass during this process. As mentioned, you can help preserve it however. For example, in 6 months of heavy work I've only put on roughly 2.5lbs of muscle mass (which is basically just "noob gains") and I am a 6'3" 230lb male. However my strength has increased 2x, 3x, and even 4x in some lifts in that same time. My muscles do look slightly bigger and firmer due to neuromuscular adaptation but it's not a huge amount and has largely stopped after the first few months.

Hope this helps.

As a head's up, I'm also not one of those girls who thinks weight on the scale=bad. I'm almost obsessively a measurements girl (just in case you guys phrase it as, "Well the scale will go up").

That being said...

Some of you said what my fiance is doing. He was a long-time lifter for most of his life, and is focusing on dropping weight before bulking for lean muscle. Is that the best route, then?

I only pose this question because just today, I've encountered several "Success Stories," blogs, and various people who dropped weight and lifted heavy all at the same time. I know some said they ate at a deficit, too.

So is this the age old, "Depends on who you are" deal?

That's good to hear. The scale is really pointless. I wouldn't care if I weighed 400lbs if I had 10% body fat and was ripped. The number really means nothing.

What you mentioned in regards to your fiance is a pretty traditional way of doing things. A lot of guys will lean out to say 10% BF, then eat way above their TDEE for 6-12 months or so to put on lots of mass. Then they'll cut down the resulting extra body fat again. Bulking/cutting cycles. Very typical way of doing things since it's hard/impossible to gain mass while on a deficit, and it's also hard/impossible to only gain muscle while on a surplus. It's pretty tried and true. As for being the "best" way of doing things, I can't really answer that.

As far as the success stories of people who dropped weight and lifted heavy, I'm sure they all ate at a deficit. That's the only way to drop fat. I know I have. I've dropped almost 70lbs and I primarily do the major compound lifts M/W/F. The advantage to lifting heavy on a deficit is that you can still make good strength gains and PRESERVE muscle mass while losing the fat. Plus it's fun and it's useful exercise (you look better and have more strength). However, you do not gain any (maybe a tiny bit) muscle mass during this process. As mentioned, you can help preserve it however. For example, in 6 months of heavy work I've only put on roughly 2.5lbs of muscle mass (which is basically just "noob gains") and I am a 6'3" 230lb male. However my strength has increased 2x, 3x, and even 4x in some lifts in that same time. My muscles do look slightly bigger and firmer due to neuromuscular adaptation but it's not a huge amount and has largely stopped after the first few months.

Hope this helps.

This actually helped quite a bit. I know our calorie intakes will be much different based on our heights/sexes, but what did you tend to eat while lifting/being on a deficit that you preserved muscle?

I eat roughly 2500 +/- 200 on any given day that I work out. Rest days I eat less, 2000-ish. Weight loss slows when lifting heavy because you're only losing fat, not fat + muscle. Hard not to get discouraged sometimes but the visual results are obvious. I make sure to measure several critical body parts on a monthly basis which I try to put a little more emphasis on rather than the scale.

As far as WHAT I eat...lots of meat mostly. I try to average 225g of protein on days I lift and 175 (which is my lean body mass) on days that I don't.