Any science buffs on here? proper technical stuff!

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shakybabe
shakybabe Posts: 1,578 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I noticed from some posts theres some guys on here who are quite knowledgeable about the science behind how our bodies work and burn fat etc.

I just wondered on off chance if any of you knew the answer to this question which was sent to me on a neurological disorders group I moderate?

Person asking has Parkinsons with dyskinesia (like Michael J Fox if you ever seen him been interviewed after his diagnosis) so literally finds it difficult to sit still.

"If my condition means everything requires more energy to do and I burn more from involuntary movements won't my body naturally increase my metabolism on its own to compensate? I can't see me been able to get through 5,000 cals or more a day to feed my bodies new energy levels! "

The person had previously had very poor appetite due to depression at onset of first symptoms before it became as advanced. The are still able to stand and walk but obviously a constant shake makes most things very difficult to attempt, even holding a fork still enough to feed themself all the calories they need!

The person asked is more advanced than I am (with regards to the progression of their condition) and mine isn't Parkinsons its Ataxia with Dystonia, but I did also wonder the same thing myself?

I do have more twitchy movements of arms and its more obviously in my arms since after I hit 40. When most womens' metabolism maybe slowing heading for menopause I wondered if mine would increase as the involuntary movements increase, over the next few years due to my condition?

Thanks

Replies

  • KarenSpreckley
    KarenSpreckley Posts: 3 Member
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    Your metabolism is the rate at which your cells use energy. Your condition may actually lead to your metabolism slowing down if you cannot consume the calories it would like to deal with the involuntary movements. Your body will not want to starve and waste away, so it may find a way of using the energy you give it more efficiently so that it does not need so much.

    Monitoring your weight should be a good indicator of what is going on. If your weight is dropping, then your body needs more calories going in.
  • KarenSpreckley
    KarenSpreckley Posts: 3 Member
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    Good information in this link

    http://www.pspinformation.com/nutrition/diet/diet.shtml
  • nxd10
    nxd10 Posts: 4,570 Member
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    Shaking and the inability to sit still lead to higher calorie use (according to Cornell nutritioun)., although it may be overwhelmed by other factors like metabolism changes and less overall movement and exercise.

    Good luck.
  • shakybabe
    shakybabe Posts: 1,578 Member
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    Shaking and the inability to sit still lead to higher calorie use (according to Cornell nutritioun)., although it may be overwhelmed by other factors like metabolism changes and less overall movement and exercise.

    Good luck.


    What do you mean when you say it maybe overwhelmed?

    The Horizon program said increasing NEAT was good for our bodies and helped us burn more of the calories we eat so surely things like tremor or involuntary movement would be similar to NEAT and fidgeting as you aren' t entirely in control of it as you are when consciously move your arms around like if you playing tennis on the wii or something?

    So if had hormone problems from menopause that could still make metabolism lower even though burning alot and eating enough to fuel all the extra movement?

    Interestingly I've noticed that when i have my monthlies and at time when my metabolism is meant to be higher naturally anyway I get really hot, like boiling hot even when its not that hot outside and I live in Yorkshire, UK so we never get extremely hot temperatures even in summer! I figured it was cos of effects of menopause on top of effects of body already having to work harder so I just lie down in front of a fan and try not to move too much till i can cool down, drink lots of cold water.

    I did use to be more cold blooded and if there was the tiniest breeze I felt it but I noticed in general that I don't feel the cold as much and overheat quite quickly when before it took alot for me to get a sweat on. I'm not sure if thats due to menopause symptoms or an increase in the involuntary movements but yet my weight loss has been at a standstill for the last few months so not sure if I'm eating too much (not enough of a deficit) or too little!
  • shakybabe
    shakybabe Posts: 1,578 Member
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    Your metabolism is the rate at which your cells use energy. Your condition may actually lead to your metabolism slowing down if you cannot consume the calories it would like to deal with the involuntary movements. Your body will not want to starve and waste away, so it may find a way of using the energy you give it more efficiently so that it does not need so much.

    Monitoring your weight should be a good indicator of what is going on. If your weight is dropping, then your body needs more calories going in.
    [/quote


    I think his thinking was that as his body never stopped moving (unless he was asleep) his body was forced to use energy at a faster rate to keep up so therefore his metabolism would have to increase, regardless of whether enough calories were going in so it would have to burn fat from reserves (maybe even muscle) at a faster rate too.

    The man has lost alot of weight and struggled to put it on and has had some muscle atrophy.

    I haven't lost weight as fast despite deliberately eating less to create a bigger deficit and take advantage of the extra cals been burned. Which is why I was wondering if menopause, hormone levels or my thyroid problems were somehow slowing down the process in my body?

    I haven't had the same muscle atrophy despite the fact I've been wheelchair user for 7 years and the other guy can still walk. I seem to have retained more strength in the form of stamina, where he tires very quickly and feels very weak.

    He wanted to know if he would have to eat more as he finds it very tiring feeding himself but hates been fed by others. so I said I'd try and find out out if anyone knew if his metabolism would have speeded up automatically.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12164723 suggests that a tremor may be responsible for lower BMI - ". Lower BMI may be due to increased energy expenditure in ET. " (ET = essential tremor).

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22100523 also found lower BMI in Parkinson's patients.
  • shakybabe
    shakybabe Posts: 1,578 Member
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    Damn! Thats interesting but I thought I was gonna end up a lean, mean fat burning machine an able to have loads of hot choc fudge cake and brandy and coke without piling the weight back on!! :drinker: :laugh:

    A friend of mine has a teenage daughter with athetoid cp - mild, but still she has been told she burns an extra 1,000 cals a day in involuntary movement and so she eats loads extra to compensate. (full cream with stuff to bump up cals) and she has always been really thin and light, despite fact she always used a wheelchair to get about... again this is a movement disorder that involves involuntary movement.

    so if their metabolisms drop and BMI is lower how come they stay thin? surely most of us put weight back on when our metabolisms drop? (if we ate as many cals as my friends daughter does!) I thought Metabolism and BMI were 2 different things??

    I haven't re-gained, other than a few pounds water retention that goes up and down but the overall weight range is going down last month my range was between 9st 6- 9st 12 this month I'm getting weights between 8st 12- 9st 5 depending on the time (of the month or day) I get on scale and which scale as Wii fit tends to weigh me in a few pounds heavier than the bathroom scales. I record the number I get the most as my weight, which today was 9st 5.

    I was 1lb off in June but went up from 9st 4 to 9st 7 but luckily it doesn't seem to be going up much more and most of it seems to be water cos I've either not drunk enough or treated myself to a cream bun (wheat makes me pile on water, I'm mostly gluten free now).

    I wonder now... if the involuntary movements will result in my Metabolism getting slower, but still not re-gaining the weight will I eventually be able to go back to eating regular bread and more carbs without going back up to 16st? Is me getting Ataxia like a guarantee that the weight is not going to go back on as it progresses, or could the menopause and female hormones still sabotage things?

    Thanks for all the links. :flowerforyou:
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    The papers I found, which weren't exactly what you're looking for, observed that people with tremors were generally thinner than those without while everyone was eating similar quantities - so a bit of a vague observational study really.

    It makes sense that involuntary movements use energy just like deliberate ones, so I can see there's an extra energy burn there. However if confined to a wheelchair there's an offset in the other direction and the underlying medical issue may change the metabolic rate one way or the other - I found papers looking at increased brain activity associated with tremors which may burn more glucose, and so on.

    You're right that BMI - a measure of fatness - isn't the same as metabolic rate or BMR but the studies looked at the BMI to deduce what the metabolic rate might be.

    Ideally you want to find some people with tremors studied in a metabolic chamber to see if their physical activity expenditure is high and what effect it has on their total energy expenditure.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/130/7/1808.full.pdf has some energy data for Parkinson's patients showing the effect of medication and surgical intervention (both reduced metabolic rate). Also compares them with non-Parkinsons and found their RMR to be higher than expected.
  • shakybabe
    shakybabe Posts: 1,578 Member
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    http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/130/7/1808.full.pdf has some energy data for Parkinson's patients showing the effect of medication and surgical intervention (both reduced metabolic rate). Also compares them with non-Parkinsons and found their RMR to be higher than expected.

    Thats great thanks, I scanned it quickly, I'll read it through properly later. Interestingly, I know a man with Dystonia who had DBS this year and he was put weight on after the surgery, however the benefits far outweigh the disadvantage of weight gain for him as he has been able to return back to work and driving.

    I guess with exercise and diet he could still lose the weight he gained after surgery?

    It's an interesting topic but never occurred to me until I saw the Horizon program on BBC2 about exercise and NEAT!

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