Strength training newb support...

trustymutsi
trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I've gotten to a point where I'm at a good weight, but I need to get my body fat percentage down. I'm currently 6'2", 40 years old, 189 lbs, and at roughly 26.2% body fat. So it's been suggested to me on the forums to start eating at maintenance and do strength training, and to also increase my protein to about 1g per pund of my body weight. I think I might still make my calorie intake a bit below maintenance though.

I only have hand weights (the ones you can add weight to), and this is the workout that I'm using:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843

I think I might add bicycle crunches to this as well.

So here are some of my questions:

1. It says I should do a heavy workout my first day, then a 10% lighter workout, and then a 20% lighter workout.

My fear is that the 2 lighter workouts won't be enough. Should I just do heavy all week?

2. When I'm doing 20 lbs for each hand weight, I can barely manage to finish a set of 8 reps for some of the exercises, but it's a little easier for others. Do I need to change the weights for every exercise? It takes a bit of time to change them, and I'm afraid that will give me too much of a break between sets. Any thoughts on this?

3. I can't find a good replacement for a workout bench. Can I replace bench presses with pushups? If so, I assume I should just do as many pushups as possible for reps?

4. Getting a gram of protein per pound of my weight is going to be challenging. That's 189 g for me. I definitely think I'm going to use a couple scoops of whey protein. Anybody got some good tuna fish recipes outside of using mayo? I hate mayo.

Thanks VERY much for any feedback. I'll try and keep posting updates on this thread.

Replies

  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    I would look into a few programs that have been around and are proven to work:
    Stronglifts 5x5 (if you are in a deficit this may be too much, good on maintenance, great on surplus)
    Starting strength (Better than SL for those in a deficit due to lower load 3x5 vs. 5x5, great for maintenance cals)
    New Rules of Lifting for Women

    These routines focus on heavy weights using compound lifts, and they work.
    1. It says I should do a heavy workout my first day, then a 10% lighter workout, and then a 20% lighter workout.

    My fear is that the 2 lighter workouts won't be enough. Should I just do heavy all week?

    2. When I'm doing 20 lbs for each hand weight, I can barely manage to finish a set of 8 reps for some of the exercises, but it's a little easier for others. Do I need to change the weights for every exercise? It takes a bit of time to change them, and I'm afraid that will give me too much of a break between sets. Any thoughts on this?

    3. I can't find a good replacement for a workout bench. Can I replace bench presses with pushups? If so, I assume I should just do as many pushups as possible for reps?

    4. Getting a gram of protein per pound of my weight is going to be challenging. That's 189 g for me. I definitely think I'm going to use a couple scoops of whey protein. Anybody got some good tuna fish recipes outside of using mayo? I hate mayo.

    Thanks VERY much for any feedback. I'll try and keep posting updates on this thread.

    1. If you are following a specific program, follow it. In general for a beginner you can progress quickly without light days.

    2. Yes, find the appropriate weight for each exercise. (depending on the exercise I use 15 to 75lb dumbbells, quite a wide range)

    3. Puch-ups although a good workout will not give you the results that you can get from benching. If you don't go to a gym look at picking up a cheap used bench.

    4. This should be a minimum of 1 gram per lb of lean body mass. So at 189 lbs, and at roughly 26%BF, that would be 140 grams (0.74*189). So your target range would be 140-189.
  • nevertoolate2
    nevertoolate2 Posts: 309 Member
    bump

    I'm 43 and in pretty much the same position but have access to gym. Waiting for new rules of lifting for life to arrive!
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    I agree with everything Eric said.

    I will add though, regarding push-ups and other body weight exercises... the effectiveness of these exercises is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY dependent on their difficulty for the person doing them. If it takes everything you've got to squeeze out 6 good form push-ups, then they are a great exercise for you. If you can do 25 in a row without thinking, then they aren't hard enough and you won't see much gain from them.

    The other thing about body weight exercises is the fact that the ceiling for progression is much lower than that of free weight exercises. With weights, as you get stronger you simply add more plates. It's much harder to add weight to body weight exercises as you get stronger. Even a weighted vest or similar has limitations.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Well, I tested my weight limits last night. Looks like my wall is 25 lbs per hand weight, so I'll need to buy a couple more 5 lb plates.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Question: Let's say your doing 5 different things, like squats, curls, deadlift, benchpress, and leg lifts. Do you do ALL the sets for squats first, THEN all the sets for curls, etc... or do you do a squats set, then a curls set, then a benchpress set, etc?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    I do things by the lift, not by the set. So I'll do all 5 sets of bench before moving onto pull-ups. Then I'll do all 5 sets of pull-ups before moving on to squats.

    I'm not sure if there is evidence suggesting one is better than the other, but the program I started with worked that way and I've stuck to it.

    Plus, the convenience of not having to rack weights after each set is really nice.

    .
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    Question: Let's say your doing 5 different things, like squats, curls, deadlift, benchpress, and leg lifts. Do you do ALL the sets for squats first, THEN all the sets for curls, etc... or do you do a squats set, then a curls set, then a benchpress set, etc?

    Some programs are set up in circuits where you go from one exercise to another without any rest, then go on to the next set of the circuit. That is different than traditional strength training and you will not be able to move as much weight due to less recovery time, but it has the added benefit of keeping your HR up, providing a kind of cardio workout while you lift. P90X is pretty much like this.

    Depending on your goals and the amount of time you have for your workouts could dictate if traditional strength training or circuit training works for you. Circuit training you will get more done in less time but have less strength gains.

    That said, I do all my compound lifts as traditional strength training then super-set (mini circuit) isolation exercises. So Today for instance I will do Bench press 4 sets, then move on to shoulder press 4 sets, then will super-set, chest flys, upright rows and tricep extensions all in a row for 2 sets.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Sorry guys. ANOTHER question.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843

    This is the workout program I picked. Can I substitute some of these with dumbbells, because that's all I have right now, and I really can't afford to do more than buy a few more plates to them to add strength.

    If not, is it possible to do a good weight lifting program with just dumbbells? If so, any suggestions?

    Thanks very much!
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    Sorry guys. ANOTHER question.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843

    This is the workout program I picked. Can I substitute some of these with dumbbells, because that's all I have right now, and I really can't afford to do more than buy a few more plates to them to add strength.

    If not, is it possible to do a good weight lifting program with just dumbbells? If so, any suggestions?

    Thanks very much!

    Barbell is the best for most of those exercises, but I would say you should be able to sub in dumbbells for all those lifts except squats. With squats your form will have to be different and it will rely heavily on grip strength instead of what you legs can actually lift, same with the deadlifts.

    so you can use dumbbells for all the exercises but for some it may be difficult to do.
  • Determinednoob
    Determinednoob Posts: 2,001 Member
    1. Yes, do the program as written. It is excellent, and it WILL get heavy as you progress through it. You can find tons of workout logs from people running it on the bb.com workout journals section. Also there is a new sticky for it due to the first and second both reaching 10,000 posts each and being closed. The new one has an FAQ right at the beginning. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147447933

    2. Yes, you need to change the weight to whatever it should be based off of your 10rm

    3. You could but you shouldn't Put a board on stacks of cinderblocks or something

    4. You don't need 1g\lb of total weight Just get minimums of 1g\lb of LBM for protein and .45g\lb of LBM for fat and fill the rest of your cals with whatever you like. All carbs or a mix.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Hopefully these pictures can help give you guys an idea of where I actually am, and what I need to do: Keep eating at a deficit, or maintain, while lifting?

    Before%2520Weight%2520Training%2520001.jpg
    Before%2520Weight%2520Training%2520002.jpg
    Before%2520Weight%2520Training%2520003.jpg

    I have kind of a wide frame, which doesn't help :(
  • MrTypical
    MrTypical Posts: 24
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.

    Unfortunately, finances are a problem right now, so I can't afford to buy a bunch of lifting equipment, thus using dumbbells. :(
  • MrTypical
    MrTypical Posts: 24
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.

    Unfortunately, finances are a problem right now, so I can't afford to buy a bunch of lifting equipment, thus using dumbbells. :(

    Join a power lifitng gym maybe? $50/month. My garage equipment setup can be picked up used for under $900. I struggled with the financial aspect of it too. I started out with a used bench and a 1" bar with 150lbs of weights. If you already have dumbells they are probably 1" also, you can probably just pick up a 1" barbell, bench, and and some additional plates for under $200. Here's how I convinced myself to buy a real full blown garage setup. First I out grew the 1" bar, it couldn't hold the amount on weight I was begining to be able to lift. A gym at 50/month adds up to $1200 over two years. Going to the gym requires me driving there, gettting workout clothes, a gym bag, and spending an hour+ away from the wife and kids. Home gym under $1000. I can workout whenever I want, the wife and kids are only 30 ft away (I walk inside and do laundry, dishes, play board games, chat with the family between sets). A squat rack and weights last forever and stare at you each time you walk into the garage to remind you to get your butt in gear. And the big seller for me was that lifting heavy worked.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.

    Unfortunately, finances are a problem right now, so I can't afford to buy a bunch of lifting equipment, thus using dumbbells. :(

    Join a power lifitng gym maybe? $50/month. My garage equipment setup can be picked up used for under $900. I struggled with the financial aspect of it too. I started out with a used bench and a 1" bar with 150lbs of weights. If you already have dumbells they are probably 1" also, you can probably just pick up a 1" barbell, bench, and and some additional plates for under $200. Here's how I convinced myself to buy a real full blown garage setup. First I out grew the 1" bar, it couldn't hold the amount on weight I was begining to be able to lift. A gym at 50/month adds up to $1200 over two years. Going to the gym requires me driving there, gettting workout clothes, a gym bag, and spending an hour+ away from the wife and kids. Home gym under $1000. I can workout whenever I want, the wife and kids are only 30 ft away (I walk inside and do laundry, dishes, play board games, chat with the family between sets). A squat rack and weights last forever and stare at you each time you walk into the garage to remind you to get your butt in gear. And the big seller for me was that lifting heavy worked.

    I definitely prefer the idea of a home gym. I think I'd best focus on using the equipment I have, and if I still with it, invest in more.

    Now if I go the barbell route, aren't I going to need something to hold the barbell for bench presses? Or do I just need a bench?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.

    Unfortunately, finances are a problem right now, so I can't afford to buy a bunch of lifting equipment, thus using dumbbells. :(

    Join a power lifitng gym maybe? $50/month. My garage equipment setup can be picked up used for under $900. I struggled with the financial aspect of it too. I started out with a used bench and a 1" bar with 150lbs of weights. If you already have dumbells they are probably 1" also, you can probably just pick up a 1" barbell, bench, and and some additional plates for under $200. Here's how I convinced myself to buy a real full blown garage setup. First I out grew the 1" bar, it couldn't hold the amount on weight I was begining to be able to lift. A gym at 50/month adds up to $1200 over two years. Going to the gym requires me driving there, gettting workout clothes, a gym bag, and spending an hour+ away from the wife and kids. Home gym under $1000. I can workout whenever I want, the wife and kids are only 30 ft away (I walk inside and do laundry, dishes, play board games, chat with the family between sets). A squat rack and weights last forever and stare at you each time you walk into the garage to remind you to get your butt in gear. And the big seller for me was that lifting heavy worked.

    I definitely prefer the idea of a home gym. I think I'd best focus on using the equipment I have, and if I still with it, invest in more.

    Now if I go the barbell route, aren't I going to need something to hold the barbell for bench presses? Or do I just need a bench?

    You'll need a bench and a rack. IMO, scour craigslist or similar for a used gear. Lots of it out there, just be patient and you'll find some decent equipment for cheap.
  • trustymutsi
    trustymutsi Posts: 174 Member
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.

    Unfortunately, finances are a problem right now, so I can't afford to buy a bunch of lifting equipment, thus using dumbbells. :(

    Join a power lifitng gym maybe? $50/month. My garage equipment setup can be picked up used for under $900. I struggled with the financial aspect of it too. I started out with a used bench and a 1" bar with 150lbs of weights. If you already have dumbells they are probably 1" also, you can probably just pick up a 1" barbell, bench, and and some additional plates for under $200. Here's how I convinced myself to buy a real full blown garage setup. First I out grew the 1" bar, it couldn't hold the amount on weight I was begining to be able to lift. A gym at 50/month adds up to $1200 over two years. Going to the gym requires me driving there, gettting workout clothes, a gym bag, and spending an hour+ away from the wife and kids. Home gym under $1000. I can workout whenever I want, the wife and kids are only 30 ft away (I walk inside and do laundry, dishes, play board games, chat with the family between sets). A squat rack and weights last forever and stare at you each time you walk into the garage to remind you to get your butt in gear. And the big seller for me was that lifting heavy worked.

    I definitely prefer the idea of a home gym. I think I'd best focus on using the equipment I have, and if I still with it, invest in more.

    Now if I go the barbell route, aren't I going to need something to hold the barbell for bench presses? Or do I just need a bench?

    You'll need a bench and a rack. IMO, scour craigslist or similar for a used gear. Lots of it out there, just be patient and you'll find some decent equipment for cheap.

    We're already looking into Freecycle. :)
  • linz1125
    linz1125 Posts: 441 Member

    4. Getting a gram of protein per pound of my weight is going to be challenging. That's 189 g for me. I definitely think I'm going to use a couple scoops of whey protein. Anybody got some good tuna fish recipes outside of using mayo? I hate mayo.

    Thanks VERY much for any feedback. I'll try and keep posting updates on this thread.

    I use either Greek yogurt or avocado...it adds a really great flavor. I agree mayo is gross!
  • MrTypical
    MrTypical Posts: 24
    Do Starting Strength, buy the book, read it, follow it. I farted around with other programs off and on for years, with no results. I got into this program and shot my bench from 125 - 250, deadlift from 180 - 375, power clean from 100 - 185 all within 5 months. I bought a squat rack, a 45 lb bar, and rubber plates and haven't looked back. If you want to get strong you have to lift heavy things repeatedly. It's surprisingly straight forward.

    Unfortunately, finances are a problem right now, so I can't afford to buy a bunch of lifting equipment, thus using dumbbells. :(

    Join a power lifitng gym maybe? $50/month. My garage equipment setup can be picked up used for under $900. I struggled with the financial aspect of it too. I started out with a used bench and a 1" bar with 150lbs of weights. If you already have dumbells they are probably 1" also, you can probably just pick up a 1" barbell, bench, and and some additional plates for under $200. Here's how I convinced myself to buy a real full blown garage setup. First I out grew the 1" bar, it couldn't hold the amount on weight I was begining to be able to lift. A gym at 50/month adds up to $1200 over two years. Going to the gym requires me driving there, gettting workout clothes, a gym bag, and spending an hour+ away from the wife and kids. Home gym under $1000. I can workout whenever I want, the wife and kids are only 30 ft away (I walk inside and do laundry, dishes, play board games, chat with the family between sets). A squat rack and weights last forever and stare at you each time you walk into the garage to remind you to get your butt in gear. And the big seller for me was that lifting heavy worked.

    I definitely prefer the idea of a home gym. I think I'd best focus on using the equipment I have, and if I still with it, invest in more.

    Now if I go the barbell route, aren't I going to need something to hold the barbell for bench presses? Or do I just need a bench?

    You'll need a bench and a rack. IMO, scour craigslist or similar for a used gear. Lots of it out there, just be patient and you'll find some decent equipment for cheap.

    At a minimum get a bench. I did not get barbell stands, because they just didn't seem safe. I was worried about getting stuck under the bar. I used dumbells to do bench press. The way I did it was to sit on the bench, grab the dumbells from the floor and swing them up onto my lap. Then I'd lay back on the bench and move the dumbelss up to my chest (starting position). I had to use this technique in the time between the weights getting too heavy for my to just curl up to my chest and when I finally broke down and bought real equipment. You can use the dumbells to substitute the barbell for bench, I used the 1" barbell for squats, deadlifts, power cleans, and overhead press. You'll surprised how quickly you get strong and out grow to 1" equipment. By doing the SS program you'll develop alot of back and shoulder muscle, I had to move from medium to large polo shirts because theymedium started to look painted on and as a 35yr old father of 2 that's not quite my style. Once you move up to a regular 2" oly bar and rubber weights, get a squat rack so you can do squats and bench in a safe manner.
  • Determinednoob
    Determinednoob Posts: 2,001 Member
    I am running SS myself but I still recommend you keep going with the Allpro's routine for now. It is slower progression which means your current equip will hold you over longer and it is easier to manage on a calorie deficit. You should still buy and read the SS book though just for learning the lifts with barbells for when you get to that point.

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