Forks over Knives - Pondering Vegan?
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I love that documentary - after my in-laws watched it last year, they gave us all the meat, cheese, desserts and frozen snacks out of their fridge because they were scared vegan. I think they almost lasted two weeks.0
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There are no vegan cultures in the world.
The Masai live entirely off of meat, milk, and blood and thrive.
The longest-lived people in the world (Okinawans in Japan) eat tons of fish.
The Inuit live entirely off of meat, fish, and fat (blubber).
Google "Forks Over Knives criticism" and you will see that this documentary, like pretty much any documentary, twists the facts.
If you want to blame one specific type of food for our current health condition, blame grains. Americans eat wayyy too much carbohydrate--which has almost no nutrients, and none you can't get in better sources--especially wheat. Excessive carbohydrate drives cholesterol, triglyceride, and blood sugar levels, leading to diabetes, obesity, high cholesterol, heart disease, high blood pressure, and other disorders (depression, food allergies, etc)...
Does it not surprise anyone that these "purifying vegan diets" avoid or entirely eliminate wheat, processed foods, added sugars, and hydrogenated vegetable oils? THOSE are the culprits, not meat, fish, and dairy.
Look into going Primal/Paleo or watch "Fathead".0 -
Look into going Primal/Paleo or watch "Fathead".
I will certainly check that out too, thanks.0 -
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Having grown up in India,we only ate chicken/fish once a week, moving to US my intake of meats has substancially increased,it took me quite some work to revert my food habits to what it was before.
Now i eat a peice of fish daily.I allow myself nonfat diary and eggs.I avoid animal fats as much as i can.
I believe protein helps in losing fat,i have a little weight to lose,as soon as i get back to my goal weight,i will switch back to eating fish/chicken once a week like how i was used to.
Being vegan wont help if the fat intake that is being cut down is substituted with same amount of vegan fats.Also the body doesnt get all the essential aminos being vegan.Eating substancially more vegetable and fruit will for sure help most problems on the long run,but it is not necessary to completely cut out meats.0 -
I thought it was a great movie and very convincing -- I was ready to go vegetarian after watching it. But doing a little research I don't think the science/arguments presented in the movie hold up under scrutiny. Here is a good place, I think, to get an even-handed review of the science:
“Forks Over Knives”: Is the Science Legit? (A Review and Critique)
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/
Yes, this.0 -
I've never seen the movie myself but http://blog.fatfreevegan.com is a great website for recipes and recipe ideas (not all the recipes are fat free or even low fat but many happen to be).
I love this website, also. Your local library is your friend. All the books mentioned are there. (Also rented the movie from my library) Put vegatarian or vegan in your search box and you will have lots of resources . After reading, I know which book I want to buy.0 -
Dr. Furhman - Eat to Live is a great resource too!0
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I also think I may change my food diary into vegan/non-vegan ... just to start giving me an idea ... I never really cared about the meal breakdown (as I just usually concentrated on daily stuff) ... but perhaps the vegan / non-vegan breakdown will actually be useful for this assessment, whatever my goal ends up being.
Hmm ...
I didn't even know I could do that!!!!0 -
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet...but the book Food Inc has some great things in it. It's not necessarily about becoming vegan but shows how the beef industry has affected the USA and talks a lot about the fast food industry and such.
I have up beef and pork real easy after reading that book and that was about 8 years ago. I've been gradually going fan over the past year and my only advice is to take it slow and enjoy tons of new foods!0 -
.Also the body doesnt get all the essential aminos being vegan.
Actually it does. The body has it's own amino acids it makes and it takes ones it doesn't make from food.
http://www.savvyvegetarian.com/articles/get-enough-protein-veg-diet.php0 -
Well, I've updated my dairy categories ... I think this will be helpful (to know what I'm eating regardless of which direction I lean towards) ... getting back on track after a rough couple weeks!0
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Sure, a diet of unprocessed plant food can bring huge health improvements to people who were formerly eating high cal, low nutrient crap. Especially in the short run. BUT the success is attributed to eliminating all animal foods. Think logically-these people are eating less and eating better, so they're going to lose weight and feel better. Just because their diet is restricted to plants doesn't mean its the animal food that was causing the problems. If there was a control group that ate less, better quality animal products in a balanced diet, then we might be able to come to some conclusions. But there isn't.0
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Yes we can say the problems were causes by the food they ate. Have you read the china cancer study? A lot of current studies are backing this up.
I would go find all the links and current studies but I am too lazy to do your research.0 -
I would agree. It would be interesting to take two groups of unhelathy people (of whatever characteristics) and put one group on a specific calorie diet of whole vegan food, and the other a whole food diet that included animal products. That would be an ideal test. I would also probably agree that while the evidence may lead to a conclusion, the variance may not be as drastic as either side may guess.
If I could write a plan down on paper and magically make my body follow it, I would probably limit my animal intake to fish and lean meats (mainly deer and other game that I would hunt and fish!) ... that way I know what's going into it and how it was processed!
However, that's not easy, especially with a family of 6 ...Sure, a diet of unprocessed plant food can bring huge health improvements to people who were formerly eating high cal, low nutrient crap. Especially in the short run. BUT the success is attributed to eliminating all animal foods. Think logically-these people are eating less and eating better, so they're going to lose weight and feel better. Just because their diet is restricted to plants doesn't mean its the animal food that was causing the problems. If there was a control group that ate less, better quality animal products in a balanced diet, then we might be able to come to some conclusions. But there isn't.0 -
Ha, didn't expect you to do it. Just gathering info, opinions, tips, and plan to do it myself. This is one of the things I intend to look at myself too ... I would like to see both sides of this study too (those that support it, and those that don't) ... then I'll just look at the disgreements on either side, and research that validity.
Then I'll post my own research paper on it and all the resouces I cited (and all the hours I put into it) and I'll have everyone else tell me that I'm full of garbage and don't know what I'm talking about
... it's what opponents do, right? lol
Though I am starting to get the lazy but on this research project myself so it may not happen quite as detailed as I would wish in my head
Yes we can say the problems were causes by the food they ate. Have you read the china cancer study? A lot of current studies are backing this up.
I would go find all the links and current studies but I am too lazy to do your research.0 -
OK, I'm not one to be an alarmist, and I'm still not going to be, but I have to say the movie "Forks over Knives" really brought up some interesting things for me to ponder. I'm considering moving more towards a vegan diet (and frankly I've had periods of such and felt great), but was just curious if any of you have seen the movie and/or could point me to some places for me to do my own research?
I understand that most of these POV (point of view) documentaries, are just that, a POV. However there was a lot of info to make up here, and I am believing that at least a good chuck of it has some meat to it (pun intended).
Thoughts, Direction, Reading Suggestions, etc.
~Matt
You should watch earthlings0 -
I think its personal preference. If you like meat, eat it. I have no problem with eating animals.
But I have a lot of veg* friends and as long as you're not one of those preaching *kitten* veg* you're good. There are a lot of material out there for getting the right amount of macros with just vegan or vegeterian lifestyle
Good luck sir0 -
I watched it and then went pescatarian. I don't want to go full vegan because it seems like a PITA. But, vegetarian seems pretty easy, especially allowing fish. I don't know where to point you. I'm just letting you know that I made the leap after seeing that movie. I also think the movie has some controversy. Like anything "study", there's always things they leave out. Some of their data was subject to criticism, and you can google it. But, there's always haters, no matter what the situation.
I haven't really noticed anything or much difference except that I never feel heavy anymore. After a meal, you feel light, but full. I like it. It takes some getting used to.
One thing is, I sleep better at night. I used to be a horrible sleeper. Now, my sleep has improved a lot.
Agreed! vegetarian for 2 months now and the change in energy levels, sleep quality and general "lightness" is amazing!0 -
It was only a click away! (thanks to Netflix) ... well ... that and mailing back one of my discs ... it's in my queue, thanks.You should watch earthlings0
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I am a pescatarian, mostly vegetarian after seeing Forks Over Knives and Food Inc. I have also read a few books about the subject. I particularly liked Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer. I was vegetarian for approximately a year and then decided to add fish by into my diet for convenience when eating at restaurants. I eat very little dairy products but plenty of eggs. So I guess I'm my own breed of "conscientious eater". I avoid labels because of the kind of people like the close minded ones above who are all about a label and judgmental attitude toward others.
I like her reply! That sounds like my take. I haven't seen it yet plan to soon. Obviously the changes to eliminate as much processed food as possible is going to be good for you. Eating less dairy and meat everyday can't hurt the body either I'm sure.
Thanks for the info on sites to check out as well! Bumped to read some later!!0 -
It was only a click away! (thanks to Netflix) ... well ... that and mailing back one of my discs ... it's in my queue, thanks.You should watch earthlings
Watch it here and save yourself a Netflix disc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19eBAfUFK3E 0 -
bump0
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Yes we can say the problems were causes by the food they ate. Have you read the china cancer study? A lot of current studies are backing this up.
I would go find all the links and current studies but I am too lazy to do your research.
The China Project is a well known example of an epidemiological study. Epidemiological studies are not controlled and therefore only reveal correlations. As anyone who has taken statistics could tell you, correlation does not prove causation, since third variables may not be accounted for . Meaning you CAN'T say "the problems were cause by the food they ate"
And as for you being "too lazy to do your research", good thing I'm graduating soon with a major in a Nutrition Science. I've read the research widely and have yet to come across a reliable body of information indicating that lean meats and fish should be avoided.0 -
Sure, a diet of unprocessed plant food can bring huge health improvements to people who were formerly eating high cal, low nutrient crap. Especially in the short run. BUT the success is attributed to eliminating all animal foods. Think logically-these people are eating less and eating better, so they're going to lose weight and feel better. Just because their diet is restricted to plants doesn't mean its the animal food that was causing the problems. If there was a control group that ate less, better quality animal products in a balanced diet, then we might be able to come to some conclusions. But there isn't.
Eating a HEALTHY vegan diet can help people with health problems like high cholesterol in some cases. Sure it's 100% possible to be unhealthy and vegan and have a diet high in processed foods, but that's about any diet.
Wouldn't you agree, if done correctly, a vegan diet can be healthful?0 -
lots of good info here so.. Bump!0
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I have been vegetarian since childhood, not for good health reasons but more for save a life eat more fruits and veggies reason. However I love cheese too much to become a vegan. I have no issues getting enough protein!! I'm sure being vegan would be great for getting fit and a healthy lifestyle!! Good luck whatever you decide :-)0
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Sure, a diet of unprocessed plant food can bring huge health improvements to people who were formerly eating high cal, low nutrient crap. Especially in the short run. BUT the success is attributed to eliminating all animal foods. Think logically-these people are eating less and eating better, so they're going to lose weight and feel better. Just because their diet is restricted to plants doesn't mean its the animal food that was causing the problems. If there was a control group that ate less, better quality animal products in a balanced diet, then we might be able to come to some conclusions. But there isn't.
Eating a HEALTHY vegan diet can help people with health problems like high cholesterol in some cases. Sure it's 100% possible to be unhealthy and vegan and have a diet high in processed foods, but that's about any diet.
Wouldn't you agree, if done correctly, a vegan diet can be healthful?
I would definitely agree. A vegan diet has the potential to be very healthy. However, I also believe a diet with a reasonable amount of lean meat and fish can be just as healthy. I haven't seen anything to prove otherwise.0 -
It's interesting that you posted that. I was JUST discussing this with my ex husband who has turned complete vegan which is amazing considering what he used to eat. I asked him how and why he was doing this (besides the hot young girlfriend) and he told me to watch that movie forks over knives and it would change my life. Allegedly it's on Netflix and I'm going to take a look as well. He is a fireman and said he had a physical where his cholesterol was alarmingly high and after just doing it briefly he saw dramatic results. He is 50 this year and looks in the best shape I've ever seen him in honestly. I think it's worth the due diligence! Good luck!0
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