Pro Health, Ban Pro-Ana/Buli

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  • chrishgt4
    chrishgt4 Posts: 1,222 Member
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    Should they also ban people who promote binge drinking, sex with multiple partners, reckless living, and things of that nature?
    Those are also disgustingly unhealthy lifestyles that can lead to illness or death. Really, what's the difference?

    Straw man argument...

    These sites are aimed at the promotion of anorexia, a mental illness, as a condition to be aimed for with hints and tips on how to accomplish this.

    Drinking, sex and 'reckless living' (which if you consider sex with multiple partners to be dangerous, then I assume your idea of reckless living is 2 slices of apple pie for dessert) are not in the same league as promotion of mental illness as an ideal.

    Also it's not a case of
    if those blogs bother you then....don't look at it?
    . This isn't a responsible attitude. If you saw someone being mentally abused on the street would your solution be to cover your eyes and ears?

    Also, I believe Tumblr have already taken such steps...
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    What about food blogs that promote unhealthy over-eating?
    What about the TV show (Man vs Food?*) and any associated sites that may exist?

    I don't know the stats, but suspect a lot more suffer damage/die from over-eating than under-eating.

    Then I believe there's worse when you get in to 'feeders' and all sorts of scary 'perverted' sub-cultures.

    Me, I'm never for authoritarianism if it can be avoided.

    *One of my favourite shows. Then there's Epic Meal time too.
  • Stephanie_dee
    Stephanie_dee Posts: 21
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    Having these websites banned is the same as having drugs made illegal. Sure it might put a few people off looking, but the reason why these sites are there in the first place is because there is (unfortunately) a demand for them. Just because drugs are illegal it doesn't stop those who want to do them. Whether or not you ban them will not stop people looking at "thinspo" and wanting to be like them, or it won't stop people sharing tips on diets and calories and all that. Banned or not there are people who want to look at these types of sites. However sad, it's true.

    I think that they are a massively negative influence, but from experience I find that the normal person who finds these sites are the ones who go looking for them. Which means they are probably very ill in the first place. Banning them might make them more difficult to access, but they wil always be people wanting to view them.

    What scares me is the idea of a young, impressionable person coming across it and being influenced into starting dieting which spirals out of control, and for this reason I think that something should be done about the accessibility of these kinds of sites.

    All of this is from 8 yrs of own experience, and 1yr of therapy.
  • chrishgt4
    chrishgt4 Posts: 1,222 Member
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    Having these websites banned is the same as having drugs made illegal. Sure it might put a few people off looking, but the reason why these sites are there in the first place is because there is (unfortunately) a demand for them. Just because drugs are illegal it doesn't stop those who want to do them. Whether or not you ban them will not stop people looking at "thinspo" and wanting to be like them, or it won't stop people sharing tips on diets and calories and all that. Banned or not there are people who want to look at these types of sites. However sad, it's true.

    I think that they are a massively negative influence, but from experience I find that the normal person who finds these sites are the ones who go looking for them. Which means they are probably very ill in the first place. Banning them might make them more difficult to access, but they wil always be people wanting to view them.

    What scares me is the idea of a young, impressionable person coming across it and being influenced into starting dieting which spirals out of control, and for this reason I think that something should be done about the accessibility of these kinds of sites.

    All of this is from 8 yrs of own experience, and 1yr of therapy.

    I totally agree. But I do think that you might get some people 'just having a look' who it then helps to push down that route. Like you say - people are going to find what they want. I just don't see why we should facilitate that for them.

    I had a look at one pro-ana website and I couldn't believe that it was serious. It was so ridiculous that at first read I thought it was mocking anorexic people.
  • SuperstarDJ
    SuperstarDJ Posts: 441 Member
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    Eating disorders are a complex mental illness. Some girls who are "pro ana" are not necessarily anorexic. In my experience those girls go through a phase and grow quickly out of it. For some yes, those sites can trigger an eating disorder. I find that mostly the people who use those sites, post and complain about it are not actually suffering from an eating disorder, more suffering from a lack of attention and trying to find themselves in an unhealthy manner. Some recovery sites people mistake for "pro ana/mia" when that really isn't the case.

    This.

    In my experience, most people who use these sites are either looking for attention or actual sufferers of bulimia / EDNOS who want anorexia as it is the most 'sought after' ED (ridiculous, I know but with society's huge value on thinness, it's understandable). What I find mildly amusing are the people who claim to be anorexic but then look for 'buddies' to help them starve. What?!? That's like someone claiming they're an alcoholic but then looking for somebody to help them drink. I have suffered from anorexia for 20+ years and starving is something I need absolutely no help with. Eating is the hard bit and what I need support around (and thank you to all the MFPers who have been a HUGE source of encouragement and support :flowerforyou: ).

    These sites absolutely disgust me. I have no time for anybody who uses these sites - genuine sufferer or not. Anorexia is a horrible, torturous disease that consumes your every waking moment. It affects every single organ and system in your body. It destroys your relationships and those who love you as they watch, helplessly, as you slowly kill yourself. Any person who wilfully helps another destroy themselves - and their loved ones - is scum in my book. If you know the horrors of AN and you encourage others to follow you, you are scum.

    The other, rather frightening, aspect to these websites is that they are often run by men. There was a case a few years back of a young Asian anorexic women. She was a celebrity in the pro-ana world. It turns out that she was being held against her will and being photographed in various states of undress. Apparently there is a market for anorexic porn (no, I am not kidding) and her photos were being used for this, as well as pro-ana sites. The poor girl died in the end as a result of her illness. Young girls often post revealing pictures of themselves on these sites so it terrifies me to think where their photos could potentially end up.

    As for freedom of speech; see how much you'll be fighting for it when it's your child/sibling/spouse dying in a hospital bed or being held down as doctors try to push an NG tube down your loved one's nose in a last-ditched attempt to save their lives. EDs are a slow suicide and I think there should be a limit to what is allowed on the web.

    Visit any pro-ana/mia site and you'll notice most members are either on MFP or similar sites.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    My dad was killed from a head injury while riding a push bike in a road traffic accident with no helmet. This happened when I was 11 and had chosen to live with my dad after my parents divorce. A massively negative impact on my life.
    I would still argue for people to be allowed to ride push bikes without helmets. So I'd hope I'd still be anti-authoritarian in this case.

    Also... you know this is "the internet"?

    You can't really ban things.

    You can censor them in your country to some degree.
  • Fozzi43
    Fozzi43 Posts: 2,984 Member
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    Girls don't always develop anorexia from websites, at my sons school there is a little girl of nine who isn't anorexic...but she refuses to eat and is getting thinner every week....why?... Because her mother is doing it and she thinks if mum is doing it then it must be ok right? :mad:

    This little girl is now getting help :smile:
  • SuperstarDJ
    SuperstarDJ Posts: 441 Member
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    Girls don't always develop anorexia from websites, at my sons school there is a little girl of nine who isn't anorexic...but she refuses to eat and is getting thinner every week....why?... Because her mother is doing it and she thinks if mum is doing it then it must be ok right? :mad:

    This little girl is now getting help :smile:

    Absolutely. AN has been written about since the 1600s - long before the dawn of the Internet. I stopped eating in front of people @ 5 years old and was diagnosed at 11 yo. I had never even heard of anorexia!

    I hope that little girl gets well soon. Poor little thing :(
  • DoomCakes
    DoomCakes Posts: 806 Member
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    I agree fully with DJ.

    I think what the OP was saying got a bit overseen because everyone is focusing on one site now. But just speaking from an MFP side (I won't even think about other sites for this statement because it may be harder to control, I don't know, not on tumblr) it could easily be monitored and deleted.

    There is nothing wrong with those who suffer an ED (Anorexia, Bulima, Pica, Over eaters) to post and be seeking HELP from their disorder. However, to post encouraging other suffers from an ED to keep doing what they're doing is wrong. It also DOES go against the standards for MFP on promoting unhealthy weight loss.

    People forget that those suffering from an ED may not always THINK they have a problem. So they may not post directly saying "everyone should just never eat and throw up" they may stick to their selves and post things such as "I feel disgusting" or "I feel so fat and terrible". They're not fishing for compliments, this is literally what THEY see when they see their self which drives them to these drastic measures. (Over eaters are a different story naturally) They are a lot harder to support because they have not yet accepted they have a problem, and chances are, not many of them listen on MFP.

    The forums started, or topics replied to stating people should follow their life style to lose weight should be taken off. The pictures and meme's with an overly thing bony girl should possibly be taken off especially if it includes sayings like "a tic tac a day is all i need" or something along those lines. There are a lot of skinny girls out there who are just naturally skinny but you can tell the difference between naturally and ED skinny (providing the ED is that far along).

    ED's are very serious, and the effects they have on the individual are that drastic that many people do die from it. It also hurts the family, because the family watches the individual slowly get worse. I support that model who tried to raise awareness and promote a healthier life style before her unfortunate death.
  • SuperstarDJ
    SuperstarDJ Posts: 441 Member
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    My dad was killed from a head injury while riding a push bike in a road traffic accident with no helmet. This happened when I was 11 and had chosen to live with my dad after my parents divorce. A massively negative impact on my life.
    I would still argue for people to be allowed to ride push bikes without helmets. So I'd hope I'd still be anti-authoritarian in this case.

    Also... you know this is "the internet"?

    You can't really ban things.

    You can censor them in your country to some degree.

    I am so sorry to hear that. What an awful tragedy, I am so sorry for your loss. I kind of feel bad arguing your point but it is a little bit different. Anorexia is a psychological illness, a slow suicide. Your dear father's death was an awful, awful accident. Somebody with ED has an illness and is bent on their own self-destruction. Yes, we should all be free to make decisions such as whether we chose to smoke, eat McDonalds etc. But when the person who is making the decisions is non compus mentis then it becomes more complicated.

    Something else that I want to clarify: EDs are NOT about wanting to be thin!!! We could be here all day defining what an ED is, but at its most basic level, it is a way of communicating hurt, pain, and unbelievable self-hatred to the world. I don't want to be 'thin', I want to disappear (die). It's like my way of letting the world know via starvation (obvious by my body) "don't worry, I too am aware what a vile, disgusting specimen of a human being I am and therefore I don't deserve even the most basic of human needs: food". I cannot believe I am saying this in 'public' but I hate hearing people say I look pretty or I look well. Looking beautiful or looking well means I am greedy and self-indulgent. I don't deserve that. Looking healthy also means I am vulnerable and unsafe. Tell me I look like *kitten*, and you make my day. At my worst, I was terrified of taking vitamin pills because that was greedy. During that time I would only eat food that was way passed its 'best before' date because I didn't deserve good food. Everything I did was to hurt myself.

    So, this is why I believe we need some degree of censorship, particularly when we are dealing with the mental and physical health of vulnerable people.
  • TheSkinnyBanana
    TheSkinnyBanana Posts: 11
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    Also... you know this is "the internet"?

    You can't really ban things.

    You can censor them in your country to some degree.

    ^^^This. Absolutely correct.
  • xxbookwormbabexx
    xxbookwormbabexx Posts: 92 Member
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    its all well and good, but the constitution calls for freedom of speech so they should do whatever they want.
    and who would decide if something is healthy/pro mia or not? what if there is a picture of just a skinny girl, should that be BANNED from the internet blogs everywhere? the line of healthy/unhealthy is sometimes blurry.
    i agree with you that those blogs are unhealthy and shouldn't be on the internet, but the moderators of those blogs have just as much right as anyone to exercise their constitutional rights.

    I think I know someone who did not listen in civic class...

    This is a private site. They can ban posts from people who have curly hair if they want and not infringe on your freedom of speech one bit.

    It is only against the Constitutional protection of free speach when a Government entity does not allow you do say it.


    not the same thing.

    /rant

    YES, THANK YOU! Also, the internet is not America.

    This. All this.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    I don't understand how anyone can support this (it's out of ignorance).
    Hopefully I can help educate you out of your ignorance, then :).

    It's not a case of supporting the sites in question for me and I suspect a hell of a lot of others.

    It's about freedom and lack of government intervention.
    About how authoritarianism to my mind causes more problems for more people than it solves with those it's targeting.

    Remember 'wikileaks'?
    If you googled for 'wikileaks' just after the big controversy, google didn't return the site. Despite that it should have reasonably been the first result. This sort of thing is exactly what "the west" criticises various countries in "the east" for doing. Information is power and people do like to control it.
    If you try and find information about what sites some countries censor, you'll find that information is also censored by said countries.
    It's only a rather small step from that to censoring people discussing censoring. Then people discussing other anti-establishment ideas and so on.
  • AbsoluteNG
    AbsoluteNG Posts: 1,079 Member
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    There should be a bigger spotlight on being fat as it causes diabetes type 2 but fat people are overly sensitive. Anexoria only affects an extremely small population so it's okay to post pictures of people who are aneroxic. Anexoria can be solved by eating more but diebetes type 2 is forever and impacts almost half of the industrialized world, in America at least.
  • nikinonsense
    nikinonsense Posts: 14
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    Eating disorders are a complex mental illness. Some girls who are "pro ana" are not necessarily anorexic. In my experience those girls go through a phase and grow quickly out of it. For some yes, those sites can trigger an eating disorder. I find that mostly the people who use those sites, post and complain about it are not actually suffering from an eating disorder, more suffering from a lack of attention and trying to find themselves in an unhealthy manner. Some recovery sites people mistake for "pro ana/mia" when that really isn't the case.

    ^ I agree with what she said.
  • Bentley2718
    Bentley2718 Posts: 1,690 Member
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    I'm sorry but this is not a problem that is going to be solved with censorship. As for women "learning" to become bulimic or anorexic, these disorders were around well-before the internet, and people who have not consciously had contact with other people with eating disorders develop them.
  • asamuels85
    asamuels85 Posts: 170 Member
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    There should be a bigger spotlight on being fat as it causes diabetes type 2 but fat people are overly sensitive. Anexoria only affects an extremely small population so it's okay to post pictures of people who are aneroxic. Anexoria can be solved by eating more but diebetes type 2 is forever and impacts almost half of the industrialized world, in America at least.

    you do not have a clue buddy!
  • zombie_porno
    zombie_porno Posts: 199 Member
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    As someone with an eating disorder, I do agree that the "pro ana/mia" sites are not healthy.. However, nobody has the right to ban people from discussing whatever they like. There are websites on how to make bombs that are covered by freedom of speech, meaning this should be covered too.

    PLUS nobody develops an ED because of a website or because of being around other people with an ED. It isn't contagious or something you can learn. They are a very complex mental disorder that is not understandable by anyone without one. These websites do not cause more GENUINE eating disorders any more than fashion media does.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    Uuum, this sounds like paranoia to me, actually.
    Care to point out which bits?
    All of the non-opinion is pretty easily verifiable fact.
    The opinion is, well, my opinion which I can verify is my opinion :).
  • AbsoluteNG
    AbsoluteNG Posts: 1,079 Member
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    There should be a bigger spotlight on being fat as it causes diabetes type 2 but fat people are overly sensitive. Anexoria only affects an extremely small population so it's okay to post pictures of people who are aneroxic. Anexoria can be solved by eating more but diebetes type 2 is forever and impacts almost half of the industrialized world, in America at least.

    you do not have a clue buddy!

    When's the last time you walked into a grocery store and saw someone anorexic? Never personally seen one in my entire life but I've seen plenty of people who are overweight, fat, and obese. All of which are at risk of Diabetes type 2, heart diseases, and also dying an early death.

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