What's so bad about low weights/high reps?

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I'm considering getting the book New Rules of Lifting for women, because so many people on here have recommended it. But in discussions of it, and in the sample of the book I read, I noticed the general consensus seems to be that women need to lift heavy to see real results, and that low weights/high reps routines were basically just gimmicks.

This really surprised me, because all my weight training is done at home with small dumbbells -- I've never gone higher than 5lbs. -- and I still see a noticeable difference in my arms and thighs. There is definition where there wasn't any before, and I feel stronger and more fit. The workouts were also not easy by any means just because the weights were small -- there were lots of reps done in complex sequences that made it HARD to get through my strength circuits.

So what gives? Do both methods work, or is one really better than the other? Why is using low weights getting bashed all of a sudden when it clearly works for people if they put in the effort?
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Replies

  • meshashesha2012
    meshashesha2012 Posts: 8,326 Member
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    you are seeing differences because you are losing fat covering the muscle, not because of anything you are doing with weights. sorry but you're not building muscle with small weights especially if it's the same amount you've been lifting since time began and especially if you are able to lift more. and you're also not building muscle unless your eating over your maintenance. and doing tons of reps are more for endurance and not strength. strength and endurance are different things .. it's like saying you can get better at math by just doing a zillion arithmetic problems and not moving on to something harder. doing all those extra arithmetic problems when you've already mastered the subject isnt making you better at math.

    one of the main reasons to lift weights when you are losing weight is that it ensures that your body hangs on to as much of your lean body mass as possible while you eat at a deficit.

    muscle is active and requires lots of calories to maintain. if you're not giving your body the calories it needs to maintain itself (which you dont when you're trying to lose weight) AND not properly using your muscles (by progressively overloading the muscle) then your body will start eating away at your muscle which i'm going to assume you dont want to happen
  • hesn92
    hesn92 Posts: 5,967 Member
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    Any exercise that you do is better than none. You should do the workouts that keep your interest and the ones that you will actually do.

    The workouts you are referring to, the Jillian Michaels style workouts, are mostly just cardio. You can get stronger doing them, especially if you were really weak to begin with... not able to do a pushup for example... but you are not going to build any muscle. You probably lost fat which will make the muscles you already had show up more which is why your arms and legs look more defined.
  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    Wow...thanks, guys. I didn't know I wasn't building muscle by doing what I was doing. Do you think I should start learning to lift heavier? Do you recommend New Rules of Lifting for Women? I'm great with finding cardio routines to do both in the gym and at home, but apparently I'm completely lost when it comes to strength training.
  • meshashesha2012
    meshashesha2012 Posts: 8,326 Member
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    what are your goals? what equipment do you have available to you?
    with NROL4W or any other strength building program you're going to need a squat rack and olympic barbell as well as multiple different weight sizes to use since you'd be increasing your weights pretty often

    i think you can look at some of the routines online to get n idea of the type of equipment you'd need and can check if your gym has it. unfortunately squat racks and oly bars aren't always present in many gyms
  • FitFabFlirty92
    FitFabFlirty92 Posts: 384 Member
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    what are your goals? what equipment do you have available to you?
    with NROL4W or any other strength building program you're going to need a squat rack and olympic barbell as well as multiple different weight sizes to use since you'd be increasing your weights pretty often

    i think you can look at some of the routines online to get n idea of the type of equipment you'd need and can check if your gym has it. unfortunately squat racks and oly bars aren't always present in many gyms

    My goal is to lose weight (I have a little over 20 pounds to lose) and build a little muscle so that when I get down to my goal weight I have some definition and I'm not flabby-looking. My college has a gym, and there's lots of hand weights in various sizes. I think there's a squat-rack, but I'm not entirely sure.
  • wellbert
    wellbert Posts: 3,924 Member
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    There's a point where it stops begin strength training and starts being cardio.

    Thre's a chart floating around, showing 3-5 as strength, 7-8 as mix of str and hypertrophy, 9-12 hypertrophy and 13+ "endurance training"
  • gxm17
    gxm17 Posts: 374
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    There is nothing "wrong" with doing low weights/high reps. It is a proven way to achieve your fitness goals. There is science to back this up (see links below). Both light/high reps or heavy/low reps are good. Both work. Personally, I find that low weights/high reps are difficult and I prefer to do higher weights/low reps, but that's just me. Everyone is different. Do what feels best for you and your fitness goals.

    http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20120427/high-reps-with-low-weights-builds-muscle-too

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9229304/Light-weights-better-than-heavy-for-building-muscle.html

    http://www.tsbmag.com/2012/05/02/study-reveals-high-repslow-weight-effective-in-building-muscle/
  • _stephanie0
    _stephanie0 Posts: 708 Member
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    523911_10151953436765595_471412857_n.jpg
  • Kobayashi2B
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    Low weights with high reps is for toning that muscle area. Building larger muscles would need gradual increase in weights. Good luck. :)
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
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    Ignore the guy above me. The word toning was made up by the fitness world to describe lowering body fat percent. You can grow muscle, maintain it, or lose it. Same with fat. At some combination of muscle mass and body fat you will find a look you like.

    Recent research has shown you can lift 60% of 1 rep max to failure and get similar results to lifting heavy. But even then, that's not likely pink weights for large muscle groups. For my squats, I'm sure I would need at least 100 lb to failure, and that would be more reps than my ADD would allow. Lifting light weights and not going to failure is basically cardio, it's not triggering the "we need this muscle so eat the fat instead" response.

    That said, running has been shown to have a protective effect against some loss of leg (and not arm) muscle. So in honesty, light weights at high reps might be enough to at least not lose much muscle in a calorie deficit.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
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    There is nothing "wrong" with doing low weights/high reps. It is a proven way to achieve your fitness goals. There is science to back this up (see links below). Both light/high reps or heavy/low reps are good. Both work. Personally, I find that low weights/high reps are difficult and I prefer to do higher weights/low reps, but that's just me. Everyone is different. Do what feels best for you and your fitness goals.

    http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20120427/high-reps-with-low-weights-builds-muscle-too

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9229304/Light-weights-better-than-heavy-for-building-muscle.html

    http://www.tsbmag.com/2012/05/02/study-reveals-high-repslow-weight-effective-in-building-muscle/

    This is describing the study I was talking about. I think the problem is that typically people don't do light weights to fatigue, and as I mentioned, this study says lighter, a feather isn't gonna do anything. And progression is an important element people often miss... Ill see the same girl using the same 5 lb weight for a year... If it was a challenge at first, it shouldn't still be after a year!
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
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    Here's what my arms looked like before any weight loss, what my arms looked like after months of doing body weight and 5# dumbbell workouts, and how my arms look a year after heavy lifting without much change on the scale.

    arms2-1.jpg

    About the same time frame as the last two photos above, but flexing.

    back--flex_zpsb942d156.jpg

    Using the 5# dumbbells did SOMETHING for me, but not compared to what real strength training did. I mean... my purse weighs about 5 pounds. A 32 oz gatorade weighs 2 pounds. If I can carry two 40 pound buckets of cat litter in the house in one trip, then lifting 5 pounds isn't going to do much of anything.

    For me, the BEST part of lifting heavy is that it's quick. About a half hour, three times a week.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    Using the 5# dumbbells did SOMETHING for me, but not compared to what real strength training did.
    For me, the BEST part of lifting heavy is that it's quick. About a half hour, three times a week.

    What Lorina said! the lighter weights are not useless and you can get some benefit from them as the studies listed above indicate. But it takes soooo long with sooo many reps and then there is not all the neuromuscular and hormonal benefits of heavier/ lower rep strength training.

    The best thing is the time efficiency. I do a very intensive routine with a 10 minute cardio warm up, compound lifts (Starting Strength) and supplementals for the stabilizing muscles. I am in and out in 60 minutes 3 times a week. My routine is intense enough that I am exausted at the end and could not do it more than 3x per week. I have a life and as much as I enjoy my workouts, I enjoy that they don't dominate my time!
  • josiereside
    josiereside Posts: 720 Member
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    My humble opinion... these things go in cycles... a few years ago it was the low weights, high reps, now it is the high weights, low reps... Someone else will come up with another book, another study, etc... in a year or 2 telling all these people who are lifting heavy they are wrong. I do whatever I feel like... I change it up all the time...
  • Jynus
    Jynus Posts: 519 Member
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    My humble opinion... these things go in cycles... a few years ago it was the low weights, high reps, now it is the high weights, low reps... Someone else will come up with another book, another study, etc... in a year or 2 telling all these people who are lifting heavy they are wrong. I do whatever I feel like... I change it up all the time...
    your humble opinion is nice, but it's not fact. amongst people who know what they are talking about there has been no debate on things... The big difference has been the internet and it's ability to weed out garbage from fact. More people are learning about the benefits of weight training. It's not going away. Learn a bit about the body and you'll learn why.
  • kjw1031
    kjw1031 Posts: 300 Member
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    I do both (low weights/high reps and high weights/low reps) and benefit from both.
  • tisane42
    tisane42 Posts: 46 Member
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    I always was taught that I would need a spotter to use large barbells and I don't know anyone at my gym to ask to spot me and I can't afford a trainer. I don't know where to begin.
  • californiagirl2012
    californiagirl2012 Posts: 2,625 Member
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    I'm considering getting the book New Rules of Lifting for women, because so many people on here have recommended it. But in discussions of it, and in the sample of the book I read, I noticed the general consensus seems to be that women need to lift heavy to see real results, and that low weights/high reps routines were basically just gimmicks.

    This really surprised me, because all my weight training is done at home with small dumbbells -- I've never gone higher than 5lbs. -- and I still see a noticeable difference in my arms and thighs. There is definition where there wasn't any before, and I feel stronger and more fit. The workouts were also not easy by any means just because the weights were small -- there were lots of reps done in complex sequences that made it HARD to get through my strength circuits.

    So what gives? Do both methods work, or is one really better than the other? Why is using low weights getting bashed all of a sudden when it clearly works for people if they put in the effort?

    It is good to change it up all the time. Nothing wrong with what you are doing, but it is only endurance. You should do a variety of Strength, Hypertrophy, and Endurance if you really want to work on your build. No matter how hard you lift you don't have to worry about getting big. Girls don't have the hormones to get big. The body builders you see in pictures mostly take extra hormones or steroids to get big. I lift heavy and I'm super tiny. I look more ripped because I am lean (under 12%) body fat. If I allowed my body to gain more fat then I would have a softer look, but I'm so short that I feel better leaner. And if I allowed my body to get even more fat then you wouldn't really see the muscle and I would look "thick" (like I did most of my life until last year LOL).

    If I could encourage all girls to lift heavy I would. Not just heavy but a good women's routine that constantly mixes it up. Heavy some blocks of time, moderate, light, combinations. Not only is it good for your body to mix it up but it keeps you from getting bored. I recently had my DXA scan done and at 51.5 years of age I have the bone density of a super athletic 30 year old. That is a direct result of lifting for over 30 years. Now if that is not scientific proof that lifting weights keeps you younger I don't know what is! Also I believe it's why people think I look younger than I really am.

    See for yourself:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/752246-i-m-afraid-to-try-an-new-weight-lifting-program-now

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/745151-i-got-a-compliment-from-rusty-moore-from-fitness-black-book

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/740340-i-lost-60-lbs-at-age-51-anyone-can-any-workout

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/752246-i-m-afraid-to-try-an-new-weight-lifting-program-now

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/742284-lets-see-some-muscle-chicks-real-ones

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/746754-how-to-get-abs-with-pics

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/734011-desserts-always-make-me-wake-up-ripped-with-pics

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/734137-the-new-me-pictures-not-posing

    I do that but also low rep / high weight, med / med, combos, you just don't want to do the same thing all the time. And what ever you do, no matter the reps, you want to NEED the rest before the next set or you are not pushing hard enough.

    The routine I do consists of weight lifting first and cardio second, but I still do cardio (mainly running). I change up everything all the time. My running is sometimes long easy runs, sometimes HIIT, sometimes shorter medium pace runs. My weight routine changes each day, each week, Circuits, Intermittent Super Sets, Fibonacci Pyramids, X-sets, Progress Venus Pyramids, and some splits, constantly changing it up, everything a variety of Strength, Hypertrophy, and Endurance.

    Legs; In addition to Dealdlift's, Stiff Leg Dead Lifts, Sumo Dead Lifts and Squats I do Bulgarian Split Squats, Lunges, Reverse lunges, Curtsey lunges, Step Ups, Crossover Bench Step Ups, One legged Deadlifts (T-Bend), Lunge Matrix, Bowler Squat, One Legged Get Ups, Bower Squat and calf Raise, Bowler Squat + Stiff Leg Deadlift, Curtsey Lunge + Dumbbell Squat, T-Bend + Y-Squat, Reverse Lunge & Step Up, Curtsey Lunge + Step Up, Y-squat, Narrow Stance Squat

    For upper body I do Standing Shoulder Press, Standing Dumbell Curls, Lying Tricep extension, Pullovers, Bent Barbell Row, Standing lateral Raise, Standing front Raise, Curl and Press, Shoulder Press + Curl, Dips, Lying Tricep Extensions + Flyes, Venus Raise (a type of snatch), Bent Row + Standing Lateral Raise, Pullovers, Pushup + Dips, Standing Dumbbell curls + Overhead Tricep Extension, Bent Lateral Raise + Pullovers, One Arm Dumbbell row, Flyes + Pushups, Seated Curl & Tate Press, Seated Curls + Overhead Tricep Extension, Pushups, Pullovers + Dips, Bent Barbell Row, Lateral Raise + Full Front Raise, Venus Raise + Dips, Standing Dumbbell curls + Lying Tricep Extension, Upright Row + Dips, Bent Barbell Row, Flat bench Press, Incline Bench Press, Bent Row Narrow, Bent Row + Kickback,

    Then some upper and lower combos; Squat and Front Raise, Step Up & Press, Step Up + Standing Shoulder Press, Squat & Press, Squat & Swing, Curtsy Lunge + Standing Shoulder Pres, T-Bend & Row, Pike Front Rais + Curtsey Lunge, Flat Bench Press + Step Up.

    Core: Bar Bell Rollouts (you can start out with Stability Ball Roll Outs), Swiss Ball Pikes (you can start out with Stability Ball Curl Ups), and planks. As you advance Swiss Ball Pike and pushup.

    I probably forgot some but you get the idea.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    in a year or 2 telling all these people who are lifting heavy they are wrong. I do whatever I feel like... I change it up all the time...

    Nah, they won't actually. Lifting heavy or maximal strength training has been around for a long time just not widely known. A small group of US powerlifters in the mid 20th century like Bill Starr developed certain methods like 5x5 (currently used) but that information was kept within powerlifting circles. Russian olympic athlete trainers has a huge impact on this type of lifting and developed methods such as Conjugate and Sheiko. Since there was the obvious lack of information with the whole Cold War the US really didn't see any of these methods until years after the Soviet Union "fell." Most of these methods started in Powerlifting groups and then trickled into the regimen's of profession strength coaches. Athletes have used these methods pretty widely for years now and it's finally just now trickling into casual fitness enthusiasts and weekend warriors. These methods are backed by science and results, they're not going anywhere. Maximal strength training isn't like P90 or Jillian Michaels that will fade out over time.

    Toning is a factor of low bodyfat. Really, all training results are ultimately dictated by diet be it, hypertrophy, maintenance, recomposition, cutting/weight loss.
    So in honesty, light weights at high reps might be enough to at least not lose much muscle in a calorie deficit
    Actually, not for that either. It's been proven that maximal strength training is also better for this while on a calorie deficit. There's little reason to focus on high reps for compound movements and really most movements in-general. There are some strength training applications for high reps but they're usually only used with isolation exercises of small muscle groups and generally more in bodybuilding than anything.